Radionuclide

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Uhh, I know it's fun to think that everyone agrees with you(I do it too), but I have to say Tremere has to this point made many more convincing points than you have, IMO.

The best argument I've seen for doing this is that it doesn't really matter. I still haven't seen any compelling evidence that it matters enough that it should be implemented despite the fact that it doesn't really matter. I mean, it seems like that argument already precludes it from being worth any dev effort. I'd like to think they're spending their time doing something that does matter enough to do it.

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Uhh, I know it's fun to think that everyone agrees with you(I do it too), but I have to say Tremere has to this point made many more convincing points than you have, IMO.

The best argument I've seen for doing this is that it doesn't really matter. I still haven't seen any compelling evidence that it matters enough that it should be implemented despite the fact that it doesn't really matter. I mean, it seems like that argument already precludes it from being worth any dev effort. I'd like to think they're spending their time doing something that does matter enough to do it.

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It's a game, of course, it does not matter. I am however playing this game and I am a badge collector. I would love to have the badge on the same character that I have all my badges on. And that is what it comes down to.

Since I cannot go back in time (in real life) to delete the character and start over, and I cannot obtain numerous badges on a new character (including a re-roll). I would like a way to get it.

Arguments have been made against because of development resources (time, manpower, etc) from other desired features. There would be some certainly, but not to the extent that has been claimed. They have different teams for different aspects of the game. Those that work on mission development are probably not the same folks that do power creation. I say probably because I do not know the structure of the organization. But, there is a difference between writing a story and coding a power with certain effects.

Development of this could be minimal. There is already a mission in the high level game that has essentially the same baddies with the group affiliation of Infected. All that would need to be done is two text changes; one to the group's affiliation and the other a change to the badge. But, Positron's post certainly rules that out as a possibility. That is a choice out of my hands.

Tremere has argued that because you can get it now on another character (including rerolling) an option should not be available for existing characters. This is sidestepping it. We all know it can be done on new a character, which was not the request.

His argument about deleting at the time is valid. Regardless of that argument's validity, it still does not make the request to have a way to get it through other means any less valid. This is something in the past that cannot be changed. And of course this will lead into the arguments about it being the same as those that missed an event badge. I have already addressed my thoughts on this and why I do not agree it is the same. I was an active player with an active character. In all of the special events, that would allow me to get the badges. The choice to get the badge would depend then on be taking the actions needed to get the badge, whether that is hunting, clicking on presents, or doing a mission for a contact.

--Rad

1) No I didn't kill 100 Contaminated. The badge was not in existance. There was not reason to do so. Though had it been, you bet I would have. And I could not forseen the future to know it would matter. Not like it would have. This was not a badge that was datamined.

2) No but, had several friends that were playing at the time who had played the game since beta or shortly after launch. I'm sure they would have told me on my first day as we were meeting up in Outbreak.

This also excludes those that have been playing longer from creating badge hunting teams (thus imparting the knowledge in the here and now). Just as was done when badges were released and still done to this day.

Even if I had not had it on my first character, that was not my badge collector (he was my third). And he would have had it on him had it existed at the time.

--Rad

EditL Fixing of typos.

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No one in this thread is asking for anything more then a chance to earn the badge which they never had the right to earn when the badge was introduced to all of us.


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You had that chance ( and heck you STILL DO) just create a new toon... you could have done it then, you can do it now.
SIMPLE AS THAT!!!!!

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LMAO!!! In any context, what collector is going to through away all their collectables, including the rares they know they may not get back for one item?

Honestly, this has been covered.

--Rad

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Nothing stopped you for anyone else from restarting their toons MONTHS ago.... thats the bottom line... you didnt have to throw away ANYTHING, simple earn isolator around I2... by creating a new toon then... those that didnt, want the easy way out... simple as that.

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My badge collector was level 30odd-somthing when badges came out. I would most certainly would have thrown all the datamined badges away. However neither that (at the time) or the levels are a factor in my decision. I choose not to do this so that I could continue to team with by friends who were all around the same level. They were not collectors where I was. They were not going to restart. And for me to do it and continue to team with them would not have happened the moment they got a mission in CF for an example. You can call it the easy way out or whatever.

It most certainly is a factor in my decision now. I will not delete my character that has rare badges.

I'm happy for you that you have Isolator because you decided to restart. But, not everyone's situation is the same.

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Edit: as far as the collector point of view... Ive already stated I support a new badge being added that simply says " I predate badges " (well not that exactly but HOPEFULLY you get the point... hedging my bets though)

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Great! I'm all for it. Makes no impact on this desicion though.

--Rad

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No one in this thread is asking for anything more then a chance to earn the badge which they never had the right to earn when the badge was introduced to all of us.


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You had that chance ( and heck you STILL DO) just create a new toon... you could have done it then, you can do it now.
SIMPLE AS THAT!!!!!

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LMAO!!! In any context, what collector is going to through away all their collectables, including the rares they know they may not get back for one item?

Honestly, this has been covered.

--Rad

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We are not saying that. You can get the badge, just create another toon. Voila.

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And of course you know this is not what is meant.

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But, you want it on your current one, well then you are taking missions and CoH/CoV development away from me. The time that it takes Cryptic to come up with a mission that allows you to get Isolator is time that they are not spending on End-game development, new powersets, Epic ATs, zone updates or any other number of things I would rather see.

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Wow. Why are your wants more important then other paying customers?

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Getting them to put in manhours developping a mission for isolator, or datamining so that they can figure out who should get it and on what heroes is, in my opinion, a colossal waste of time.

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I'm sorry you feel it is a colossal waste of time. I respectually disagree.

--Rad

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A little oversimplifying aren't you? All badges are being at the right place at the right time. Truely, the only badges that fit that criteria is Celebrant, Heart Of Darkness, and Jetsetter/Longbow Reservist. Why? Because only those require no more then being online between the given times. All others require some action in game action by the player such as exploring the city, reading the historical plaques, or deafeating certain enemies.

Also from my original post I said it does not bother me not having it.

I don't agree with your assement. And I will leave it at that.

--Rad

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Realize this.... The "action" of obtaining Isolator is creation of a toon. This places said individual in the right place at the right time to collect this badge. Even then there is an option to completely bypass the Tutorial. Should those individuals be allowed to obtain isolator?!? I guess that becomes the real question. If you want all badges easily obtained, why not ask Positron to just grant every toon created all badges... period. Thats essentially what ppl asking to have a means of obtaining Isolator want. Simply put, its not fair to those who DID recreate a toon and start all over in the tutorial just to earn that badge. Nothing stopped you, nothing stopped anyone who posted in this thread.

So I guess what all of you want is a new option to appear when creating a new toon...
" would you like to skip the tutorial and be given this nice shiny new badge... oh and how about we lvl you up to lvl 30 since you've already done the first 30 lvls a few dozen times. While we are at it we'll give you 50 mill in Influence and how does a 12x12 base fully loaded sound? Great we knew you'd like it. "


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Realize this ... The action of getting isolator is killing 50 Contaminated. Not creating a toon. The limiting factor is where they spawn.

Should those that choose to skip it get a chance? No, because they made a choice not to go there and do it. I was never given that the opportunity to obtain that badge with that character. I don't want them to give all badges at creation, I want the opportunity to earn them.

The rest of you post was an extentsion of that hyperbole which I will not address.

--Rad

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Correct it was. And my character went through it. Problem is that the badge was not ceated.

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Maybe it's because I'm sick and not thinking that clearly at the moment, but what?

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And that, LiquidX, is what I get for posting at work and trying to do both... That should have read:

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Correct it was. And my character went through it. Problem is that the badge was not created.

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--Rad

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I disagree. There is a world of difference in missing an event that ran for a specified timeframe and a permanent badge that had the system been in place at the time would have been obtained.

For me personally, I do not mind not having isolator. But, it would be lying to say that I would love to have it. I would do whatever task they set before me to get it. At least, short of deleting and recreating my collector. Because losing the badges I have now is paramont cutting off my nose despite my face.

--Rad

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no difference at all. The time you chose to play the character in did not qualify for a particular badge. Whether it be a zone specific badge, or a kills badge, whatever it may be. The character does not have the badge, because during the time the character was created and played, there was no badge.

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Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The difference to me is that those other badges were especially created for each of those events. This is not a limited event like Halloween or the Winter Lord. Isolator is a permanent badge.

I realize why he does not have the badge. I said in my post.

--Rad

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As noted, it is no different... Isolator began to show up on X date & time. The halloween badges showed up on Y date & time. The one yr aniv badge showed up on Z date & time. Its NO different. Time line badges are for being in the right place at the right time. They are NOT hunt badges, exploration badges, history badges, mission badges, etc. They are for being present at the right place at the right time. Thats it, its that simple. Any toons created before the creation of badges simply were not in the right place (outbreak) at the right time. How is that any different? These individuals could have created a new toon at that point in time and obtained said badge, but no... they rather complain over a yr later. It would have been SOOOO easy to just create a new toon then and obtain it.

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Did you read my first post?

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At least, short of deleting and recreating my collector. Because losing the badges I have now is paramont cutting off my nose despite my face.

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I have other characters with the badge. I realize how easy it is to get for those characters.

A little oversimplifying aren't you? All badges are being at the right place at the right time. Truely, the only badges that fit that criteria is Celebrant, Heart Of Darkness, and Jetsetter/Longbow Reservist. Why? Because only those require no more then being online between the given times. All others require some action in game action by the player such as exploring the city, reading the historical plaques, or deafeating certain enemies.

Also from my original post I said it does not bother me not having it.

I don't agree with your assement. And I will leave it at that.

--Rad

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Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The difference to me is that those other badges were especially created for each of those events. This is not a limited event like Halloween or the Winter Lord. Isolator is a permanent badge.

I realize why he does not have the badge. I said in my post.

--Rad

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However, Isolator was specifically created for Outbreak.

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Correct it was. And my character went through it. Problem is that the badge was not ceated.

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I disagree. There is a world of difference in missing an event that ran for a specified timeframe and a permanent badge that had the system been in place at the time would have been obtained.

For me personally, I do not mind not having isolator. But, it would be lying to say that I would love to have it. I would do whatever task they set before me to get it. At least, short of deleting and recreating my collector. Because losing the badges I have now is paramont cutting off my nose despite my face.

--Rad

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no difference at all. The time you chose to play the character in did not qualify for a particular badge. Whether it be a zone specific badge, or a kills badge, whatever it may be. The character does not have the badge, because during the time the character was created and played, there was no badge.

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Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. The difference to me is that those other badges were especially created for each of those events. This is not a limited event like Halloween or the Winter Lord. Isolator is a permanent badge.

I realize why he does not have the badge. I said in my post.

--Rad

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This WHOLE thread is nothing but a bunch of whiners who have thier precious badge count posted in their Signature as some sort of "oh look how uber I am". Well I got news for you folks, this here is the truth on the matter...


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Here's my biggest beef with the whole "I want isolator" thing...

We have a *small* percentage of people - *very* early badge hunters - who want the devs to code, test, and implement a system for them to go back and get... a badge. A badge that, as has been stated, does *nothing* but sit there and look - well, like it's there.

I have yet to hear any of them stick up and say "While we're at it, people should be able to get Celebrant, even though their toons weren't here at the 1 year mark, and get XYZ badge that are also now not obtainable."

Of course, if *any* of that were possible, it'd pretty much take any meaning out of the badges themselves, now, wouldn't it...

I'd be perfectly fine with them being datamined for character creation date and just auto-given, say, a "Mythic" badge for being around pre-badges... of course, I'm sure several would *still* complain they couldn't get isolator... and we'd have newer badgehunters complaining they couldn't get *that* badge.

Me, I'd rather see the time and effort put into new content, or fixing the preexisting bugs.

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So you missed out on ONE badge, big whoop... heaven forbid the devs dont humor you by allowing you to increase that badge count in your sig by +1. Sad, very very sad.

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I disagree. There is a world of difference in missing an event that ran for a specified timeframe and a permanent badge that had the system been in place at the time would have been obtained.

For me personally, I do not mind not having isolator. But, it would be lying to say that I would love to have it. I would do whatever task they set before me to get it. At least, short of deleting and recreating my collector. Because losing the badges I have now is paramont cutting off my nose despite my face.

--Rad

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Just adding my 2 cents for a 100th post!

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Ummm. You forgot the 2 cents.

--Rad

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Technical difficulties isn't the most interesting answer, but it is a reasonable one. We know it's not because they haven't thought of it, we know it's not because of story concerns, and we know that they'd like to do it. They just have some technical issues with pulling it off.

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A technical answer could also consist of a response like what many others have said as well: They can't add a trainer to Pocket D because it couldn't differentiate between heroes and villains and would train both. That's still a technical reason. The source code doesn't need to be trotted out to explain something like that, and I strongly doubt that that is what anyone is requesting. That's just hyperbolic. The devs have been able to explain reasons behind things many times before even if it's something that's prevented from a technical standpoint. MM pets not being able to zone into instances is a good example of this.

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To me, the trainers not knowing the difference is more of a storyline reason then a techincal one. Since a trainer can train both, you create a story as to why that trainer will train both. But, Posi is saying that it is a techincal reason not a storyline reason like he did with why insperations cannot be transfer. He also stated a possible technical reason in the future, faction based insperations.

The issue that I have with using a bug in beta as proof that it is possible, is that it was beta. The code may have been changed since that occured. Of course, it may not have. But, I doubt this is the techincal reason Posi has in mind.

--Rad

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Jump on the VD bandwagon:

http://www.acme.com/heartmaker/

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IN

--Rad

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Correction: You need to do BOTH "Help me!" missions (Get the Girdle and Destroy the Cauldron) in order to get Handsome/Beautiful.

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This of course is all true. I knew it to be so. Ah well, thanks for setting me straight.

--Rad

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Uhh...how exactly do we get this badge?

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You have to do DJ Zero's mission 5 times. In order to unlock DJ Zero, you need the Handsome/Beautiful badge.

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First off are we talking villains here? I have never heard of any of the above material....badges...contact...is it new to villains?

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This is new. It is for both villains and heroes and can be accessed through Pocket D. To get to Pocket D go to Port Oakes, Sharkhead Island, or St. Martial. There will be a green dot labelled Pocket D.

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How do you get the Handsome/Beautiful badge?

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There is a contact for each side (Ganymede for heroes and Scratch for villains). Both give two missions. The first can be done alone. The second requires at least one of the other type. Completion of that mission gives Handsome/Beautiful.

--Rad

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Yeah but oddly enough they don't mind being able to go from 15-50 by only using 4 PvP zones....out of the 27+ zones in CoH...ok seems like a waste but hey it's their game not mine I just pay for it.

Planning and thinking like this is apparently why Faultline and Boomtown and Crey's Folly and Rikti Crash Site and Eden and The Hive (barring you go for Hamidon) no attraction outside of a handful of missions splattered over 50 levels...or in Faultlin's case, no missions .

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Oh I agree. It does seem odd to allow all PVP mission leveling from 15-50 in 4 zones as opposed to one. However, this was not Von_Yellsburg complaint. It was about being able to use PvP missions to go from 48-50 in Recluse's Victory based on Posi's comment. This was not correct when reading Posi's other responses saying that the new zone in I7 will be 40-50.

I also agree about the lack of content in Faultline, Boomtown, Crey's Folly, Rikti Crash Site, Eden and The Hive causing a lack of population in those zones. But, PvP (and the associated mini-games with it) will keep Bloody Bay, Siren's Call, Warburg, and Recluse's Victory alive.

--Rad

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I'm sorry Positron, but your logic is slightly flawed. If a level 48 character has expended all of their missions/contacts, then why exactly is it wrong for them to want to do pvp missions to go from 48 to 50 and at 50 you cannot currently get random missions aside from shadowshard so why not let them do pvp missions too? If the intent of the I7 pvp zone is not to have a level 50 zone, then *waves fists in fury* at the fact that the devs still have provided NOTHING for max level characters to actually do. Rethink what you've said from the context I just mentioned. (BTW even at 45 it is their toon. They can go to shadowshard and stay there until 50 so why not if they so choose allow them to stay in recluse when it is live?)

Monkey see, Monkey do. Poop on me, and I'll poop on you.

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You may want to read his responses again. He said they do not want a character doing PVP missions from 1-50. However, he is talking about within one zone. He indicated that Recluse's Victory will be 40-50. So, in essence a character could go from 15-50 in all PVP missions. They will just have to go from Bloody Bay to Siren's Call to Warburg to Recluse's Victory. But, they could not go from 15-50 in Bloody Bay. They would outlevel the contact based on SL/TL. But, at that point they can jump to the next PVP zone.

PVP and the missions are not end game content. They devs have never made this claim. The end game content is still in development.

--Rad

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So, what do they consider extraordinary? 1700 play hours on my main isn't extraordinary? Having 295 badges collected? 38 of a possible 43 souvenirs? Ship you all a case of scotch for our CoH 2nd Anniversary in May? Again, just a hazy thing that can number any amount of "extraordinary" events, would like more info about what qualifies.

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While I'm not Posi, I have seen a post from either Cuppa or Alexia (spacing as to which) addressing this badge. It has been granted once. It's been given to one player, on one of their characters, on one server. They found a game breaking bug with bases.

My assumption is the prestige bug that was fixed recently. But, I could be wrong on that one. Now we know how to earn it, find game breaking bugs. That's an easy thing to do right? Right? But, the scotch idea may not be a bad one.

--Rad

EDIT: Ugly typo. So, it went through some surgery and is purtty again.

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Does that mean that for those of us who have both(after release I mean), we won't actually need two different installations, as they're practically the same code?

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They are the same code. The way the devs have explained it, you start the game, pick your server, and then you see a big list of all you characters both heroes and villains. If you pick a hero, you're playing CoH. If you pick a villain, you're playing CoV.

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But what if you pick your nose?

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You think you're playing, but you're snot.

--Rad

My thoughts on Blood of the Black Stream, which were largely shouted down by others before, but still remain my thoughts are that they are Pirate Based

Something we were told with I5 is that to think Errol Flynn

well that does mean Archery per Robin Hood with him and Olivia DeHaviland.

However, Errol Flynn also did multiple movies based on Piracy and being at sea, such as well "The Sea Hawk" and "Captain Blood"

and the name is to me reminiscent of many "comic" style organizations and brotherhoods (rarely sisterhoods) of pirates.

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The only flaw in your logic is that the Blood of the Black Stream is not being released with I5.

We know now that Archery will be in I5. At least to me, the hint of think Errol Flynn was in reference to the role he was particularly famous for, Robin Hood.

--Rad

Thank you Positron and all the Devs for making a great game, sharing it with us, and caring enough about us to consider our views.

These are why you have made City of Heroes the only game I play.

--Rad

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Kheldians are not supposed to replace Tankers and Blasters, or any other Archetype. They fulfill a unique role. A metamorphic one, if you will. That is, they have the ability, at your discretion or skill, to fulfill many roles within a team. So Kheldians can Blast, Tank, or Control… they can even Scrap or Defend a little. But they were never meant to be better than Tankers, Blasters, whatever. They are meant to be the best at, let’s call it, adapting. They are ShapeShifters by nature. We want them to be versatile, and challenging, but not perfect or all-powerful.

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While, this is not from Statesman but, from Geko. I think I answers the question you are asking as to what role they intended Kheldians to fill. Whether they were sucessful is a matter of opinion.

--Rad