Psiphon
-
Posts
709 -
Joined
-
If you dont want to buff:
Rad
Storm
Dark
TA
Storm has got a heal (O2 boost)but people don't really expect a Storm to heal the rest is debuff, control and damage. -
Quote:I agree totally with this, an Ill/Kin built correctly is a very potent both in teams and solo.Originally Posted by Sweetmeat
For the most part the posted build is ok. It's got one glaring problem - it can't do any damage. Part of Illusion controls ability to control an environment is that Spectral Wounds kills thing quickly. Leaving it out of a build makes you less useful on teams, and almost completely incapable of soloing.
If you were to switch out Superior Invisibility for Spectral Wounds, and take it earlier, and Switch out Flash for Air Superiority, again taking it earlier, you would have something close to how my Ill/Kin is built. I also went with the Stone AP because Fissure + Hasten + Siphon Speed + Fulcrum Shift = perma-stunned dead mobs. Add in Seismic Smash and you you've got a single target attack that will one-shot contained minions.
If you really want to solo, and to help speed things along on smaller teams, you will need some damage potential other than PA. PA wounds things, it's up to you to kill them before they heal back the illusory damage.
It is best combined with the Stone Epic and played as a scraptroller. -
Quote:IOriginally Posted by Yoshitomo
Better pairings you say? Anyone know the best secondary for Grav?
Gravity is in my opinion the weakest control primary and in serious need of a buff - having said that it is also one of the quirkiest and fun.
I've tried a number of Grav Controllers and found that /Rad and /Storm work best.
Storm gives you much needed additional control and AoE debuff
Rad gives better pseudo holds in immob and debuffs.
Having debuffs be it via anchors or AoE plays to the ability of Wormhole to relocate mobs. -
Quote:The reason why I feel that Ill/Kin/Stone is such a great combo isn't because it's able to output vast amounts of damage its because it can output good damage while surviving in the toughest of conditions.Originally Posted by MentalMidget
I don't believe the concensus here is that Ill/kin can't solo, it just both sets don't benefit optimally together.....any 2 sets can be played together, and I'm sure perform quite well in the hands of any player.
It's pretty much PA gains no benefit from Fulcrum, and it takes some effort for Phantasm to make it to mobs to gain any benefit. If you wondering why I keep dogging on lack of Fulcrum's ability to augment Illusion fully.....It's what you got Kinetics for (don't lie to yourself, and say it isn't)
To stress my point - a few months ago I was on a team of L50's running Radio missions in PI, after a few missions a Fire/Kin and myself went to the next mission and waited outside for a few minutes; the rest of the team said that they were shopping etc.
The Fire/Kin suggested that we do the mission ourselves, I agreed popped GI and went in.
It was a Carnie mish, we cleared the 1st mob between us then moved on, when I checked the map I noticed that the Fire/Kin had gone in a different direction.
At this point his health bar turned orange, red then green as he hit Transfusion, this happened for about 10 seconds (while I rushed to his position) then he died.
When I got there he was in the middle of a mixed bag of Carnies including a couple of Bosses.
I dropped PA and Spectral Terror then jumped into the middle of them; a short while later the mob had been cleared and the Fire/Kin was able to rez.
So yes I agree with the comments above that a Fire or Plant have better AoE damage and combined with Kinetics will dish out more damage however none of the other Primaries give as much damage mitigation solo as Illusion so anything else */Kin will faceplant before the Ill/Kin.
I've looked at other higher damage Primaries Fire/Plant with a secondary that offers more mitigation - I'm currently leveling a Fire/FF and looking at capped defence to ranged and melee to see how that works out.
Obvioulsy though I'll be limited to the basic damage from Fire/ and Epic as FF has no damage buff.
I'm open to suggestions, if some one thinks that they know of a Controller that is as survivable and as damaging as an Ill/Kin/Stone then I'd be keen to know what it is. -
Shouldn't Siphon Speed be included in any Kinetics build - it can be triple stacked for an additional 60% recharge, this would allow you to spam cages or roots more often?
-
I've also got a Force Feedback + Recharge in Phantasm - pre the pet recharge nerf this used to force him into melee when it fired, I'm not sure if this is still the case. Since the change I have seen him go into melee when I haven't been but I've not tested it fully.
So all in all a very good combo that really needs to be played as a Scrapptroller.
You'll never outdamage a Fire/Kin and you'll never solo an AV as well as an Ill/Rad or Ill/Storm but
or normal PVE it's a fun frenetic build that does good damage.
Again my apologies for the split reply, kept getting bad input when typed as a whole. -
With this alt I do the damage via the Stone Epic and Kinetics, PA and the rest of the Illusion set allow me to do this.
I basically jump into the middle of mobs and challenge them to kill me, I can solo 8 man invincible/Unyielding spawns this way.
I can often out survive Granite Tanks and outdamage Scrappers.
By playing this way you also negate most of the issues put against Ill/Kin
Phantasm Knockback - if you jump to the middle/far side of the mob any KB will take the target towards you not away.
Phantasm is pretty well behaved and tries to come to you so positioning yourself in the mobs tends to draw him in, I can usually have him FS'd about 30% of the time, same with heals, he rarely dies. -
I've tried all of the epics and would agree that playing this way Ill/Kin doesn't shine.
An Ill/Kin/Stone Controller should be played more like a Scrapper.
I run GI permenantly for the Inviisibility/Stealth and reduced threat level (more End efficient than SI)
Siphon Speed means I've got permenant PA (on a small budget, 1 purple set in Deceive, 3 LotG + Recharge, all the rest are cheap sets)pulling the aggro
Spooky to lock down mobs
Phantasm and the decoy pulling aggro.
I can regenerate over 400HP every few seconds
With Trasnference I have no End isues.
With FS and SP I get a massive damage boost -
The Synergy between Illusion and Kinetics is this
Kinetics needs to be played in melee and Illusion allows you to play there better than any other primary, add the Stone Epic into to the mix and you have additional control, a reliable source of AoE containment with good damage.
If you play an Ill/Kin like a Controller, in front of the mobs with Phantasm just off of your shoulder you get all of the issues that are usually raised.
Phantasm knockback
Unuble to buff Phantasm
Unable to heal Phantasm -
Sorry guys, I've had to split my post into sections, for some reason it wouldn't take it as a whole.
Firstly I'd like to say that's it's a pleasure and an honour to be able to contribute on the same boards as some of you guys, Local Man you're my hero.
Having said that, when reading the US boards I always felt that Ill/Kin was sold short as a combo.
When talking about Illusion and the best secondary to use, the argument put foward is always the same
PA is the best/most damaging power
PA can't be buffed so debuffing def/resistance of mobs equates to a damage buff.
The above statement being true the best secondaries are Rad, Storm and TA.
What the above statement doesn't take into account is Epics, in particular the Stone Epic.
I've got a number of Controllers including Ill/Storm and Fire/Rad and for normal PVE, the area between soloing AV's and farming, I've found the Ill/Kin to be the best. -
Also no Spooky?
-
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
well I was thinking of taking fissure, seismic smash and earth's embrace and slotting 3 heals in it simply because I don't like rock armours look. I'm now working on a revised build, but slightly off topic...what in your opinion are the most damaging controller builds other than fire/kin?
[/ QUOTE ]
Fire/Kin (damage-wise) is head and shoulders above the rest of the field.
If it's purely 'damage' that you're after the next best primary is probably earth. Secondary is more 'open', it depends on your playstyle, but if we are solely talking about damage I'd guess that Storm (spit) is ,numbers-wise, the best. You must bare in mind though that being a team toon earth/storm, while good 'on paper', doesn't necessarily mean best. e.g. earth's animations can cause some team members graphics issues which also goes for storm along with it's KB.
Personally I'm a huge fan of /rad - there's very little it can't do, blossoms early and ease of it's debuffs make it so very versatile.
At the end of the day the damage output and overall usefulness of your toon depends on who else you have in the team, impossible to gauge that if youre pugging it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fire/Kin is the most damaging but they're very flimsy especially against Bosses.
Some good high damage Controllers are:
Fire/Storm - quite rare as well for some reason
Plant/Storm
Plant/Kin
Fire/Rad
Plant/Rad
Ill/Storm
Ill/Kin
There are other combos that could be put foward as well - I believe /TA can do good damage but I've got no experience with that set myself; also Mind/.
Earth and Ice are the lowest damage primaries.
If I was going to make another high damage Controller I'd go with Fire/Storm or Plant/Storm -
It's not how I've built mine but to each their own - mine is built for team and solo.
You do need Hasten though to keep the PA out as much as possible - I'd drop Assault, not really needed with Fulcram Shift. -
As stated previously you need to take PA and Phantasm.
I would also recommend Combat Jumping for the -immob - to get the most out of kin you need to be able to move freely (get in close for the buffs)
For teams GI is better than SI - allows Blasters to run in and nuke in safety.
From a damage/solo perspective the Stone Epic is miles ahead of any of the other sets.
Fissure adds additional control knockdown/stun - the stun also gives an ill/kin a reliable way to setup containment.
Seismic Smash is a vey high damage mag 4 hold.
Playing in melee using Fissure for AoE damage and containment all augmented by Fulcrum Shift makes for a very potent Controller.
I went with Rock Armour as its a toggle and not a click like Earths Embrace (kin is vey clicky already). It also gives you another place to put a LotG +recharge.
I've tried all of the Epics with my Ill/Kin - Stone takes it to the next level. -
I'd go Illusion/Rad as it will be easier to multibox than /kin (kin is very busy/clicky).
Run Superior invis and Group TP to the far side of the mob that you want to aggro. The PA will run to you and engage the mob between. Provided that you haven't gone too far past the mob they will keep attacking, if you move too far away they'll disengage the mob and come to you. -
This is really just a general question that I've wondered about for a while.
Why are IO sets biased towards positional defence?
Set bonuses for positional defence are often as high as 3.75% while typed defence is half that.
Also it is widely accepted that 1 defence equals 2 resistance so on that basis sets should offer 7.5% resistance.
With the current setup some Primaries/secondaries have an advantage.
Any reason for this? -
What exactly are you trying to achieve?
-
Never tried it but almost certainly no.
As with heals and buffs you would get an "unaffected" pop up. -
Thanks for all the info guys.
I made one of each and then stuck with the SD/SS - the concept came out better.
Concept trumps all
-
Hi all.
I'm looking to make a high damage Tanker and was left tossing up between these two - Shield/SS or Shield/FM.
How much difference is there in damage and how much damage mitigation has SS got in it - I know FM hasn't got any?
I'm just after opinions and general thoughts really.
Thanks -
Put simply remove ED from the power pools.
Apart from my main I use only standard SO's and at L50 non set IO's and I'm sure that most people are the same.
Removing ED from the power pools would allow the return of permanent haste and aleviate Endurance issues without set slotting.
It wont break the Invention system and would give more casual players a little boost. -
[ QUOTE ]
Mind is too delicate (no real fast AoE immob) versus the very chaotic nature of Storm. For soloing it's awesome combo but for teams I guess you will be a hate-magnet in teams. Some people hate Confuse and TK, most people hate KBs. I once in a team whose leader said he won't accpets Stormers in his team.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've got an Illusion/Storm in the 40's and I've never experienced any hate at all although I have read about it in the forums.
[ QUOTE ]
I've been in teams with some Mind/Storm trollers in the past while leveling up Psy-knight (my first 50 Mind/Rad). They were usually dead while I was okay and carry on fighting.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd put this more down to you being a better player - I've found Storm to be every bit as survivable as Rad - at least post L16 (Freezing Rain). -
[ QUOTE ]
Heh Araf hit the 50 between this time. I learned to play with SB and SS.
[/ QUOTE ]
Have you tried the Siphon Speed / Hover combo?
There are no powers in Mind or Kin that require you to be earthbound. Hover and SS allow you to move around at a good speed avoiding any ground based AoE.
It's a far less frenetic play style to than being ground based.
[ QUOTE ]
In large teams unfortunately you become a buffer more than a controller. Also you don't have heavy debuff punches of Rad versus AVs. Hmm and rez, you lack mutation which is too usefull on Co-op TFs.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is true compared to Rad.
Personally at the high levels only SB people that either ask for it, are having End issues and Granite tanks.
Most of the time the team is moving so fast it's not worth it - as long as FS is flowing people are happy.
In regards to AV's kin has reasonable debuffs:
Siphon power - damage
Transfusion -regen
It's no Rad though!
Over the course of a mission I'd say the kin brings more to the table. -
Thanks for the info.
I guess the question is - which has the higher mag, repel of TK or the KB in Tornado?
I'm basically looking to make a high damage Storm troller that can make use of Tornado - I've got at least one of each of the other Primaries on the go so Mind is the obvious choice dependent on the answer to this query.
On a side note, have you tried farming with your Mind/Kin?
I was wondering how much damage an FS'd Terrify does in a padded map?
If your able to wipe out each spawn with one application of Terrify it could be very effective; not that I farm at all, just out of interest. -
[ QUOTE ]
Mindcontrol is a very efficent and useful power. The lack of Pet means u don't get petaggro as from the other Primaries.
[/ QUOTE ]
Some pets can draw unwanted aggro (Fire Imps are easily the worst) but overall the fact that mobs have other targets apart from yourself is actually very beneficial.
Playing my Ill/Kin I've been mezzed by EB's and had no trouble surviving as Phantom Army, Phantasm and it's decoy pull the aggro away from me.
The ability of Pets to pull aggro is usually a good thing.