ProcessedMeatMan

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So lay off with wanting to turn the set into something less unique just because you don't like what its offering. If you want higher protection go make an invulnerability brute, its why the set exists. If you want to be a tanker go invul, if you want something different and more varied go elec.


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This has been my take on it too, actually.
I don't like the no heal/KB/Immob concept at all. I do, however, like the idea of the set and don't want that to change. I would just like to see some existing powers within the set have a bit more added to them... to really justify the downsides it's been handed.

Don't remove the powers that are there. Don't revamp the set. We all know this isn't going to happen anyway. Let's keep our proposals and ideas within the realm of reality please.
People with the ridiculous "Rooted for Grounded" idea, I'm looking at you.

Also, this is a bit off topic but needs to be said. Some of you need to exercise some maturity in this thread.
Some people think the set needs fixing, some don't. Such is life.
If you love the set as is, then say so and provide examples why. If you don't, respond in the same fashion.
Agree or disagree and provide your ideas, but don't degenerate into calling people names and telling them to suck it up.

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just add +Res Knockbac, -Fly, -Jump to grounded =\ plzthxkluvubai

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Given that Grounded is an auto power that you can't turn off, I think that's a really bad idea to restrict your travel options in such a way.

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Agree. Besides, KB protection in an auto-power is highly unlikely, especially considering the Devs didn't provide it for a reason.

Yeah... I apologize. We seem to be having a hissy fit tiff over the viability of TP in PvP. This isn't the appropriate place for that debate, so my apologies. To him and everyone else.

What am *I* promoting? Hmmm... I seem to have done more criticizing than promoting. Bad me!
Well, so far I like my idea of replacing Conserve Power with Quick Recovery. Building "Stamina" into the set makes sense thematically and allows us to reliably bypass Fitness. It would also be another useful auto-power.
I'd also like to see higher resistance numbers for ALL non-S/L damage. Perhaps the old Temp Invul base of 32.5%. I'd like to see this for the non-S/L resistance shield. Getting that kind of resistance versus S/L makes Invul look unappealing and inferior . The set really needs to be able to take a hit, especially without a reliable form of secondary damage mitigation.

Sure, I've complained about the lack of a heal and Immob/KB protection. I would love to have it, but I just don't see it coming. Therefore, I'm trying think think of suggestions that are within the realm of possibility, but at the same time provide just compensation for the lack of that heal and KB protection. Having substancially higher resistance numbers does that, IMO.

I don't think this set will ever see healing. I highly doubt that the powers that are already in it will be removed to make way for a Heal. can't say I blame them, honestly.

EDIT to add:
I'd also like to see repel resistance added to the Tier 9.

So, in summary -
- Higher non-S/L resistances
- Quick Recovery in place of Conserve Power
- Repel resistance in Power Surge

Power Surge also gets KB and Immob protection, so I think it all evens out in the end.
These suggestions also stay firmly within what the set already offers and justify, to me, the lack of a heal/KB/immob in the meat of the set.
I won't like it, but these changes would definitely make me shut the F up about it.

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LOL! Dude, you are just whining and reiterating the whining others have initiated. You just pointed out some serious strengths of this set and for some reason believe that this sec needs to be overpowered to the point of requiring a future nerf. Power Sink is a great weapon, probably one of the best toggle dropping attacks in the game. I have used this repeatedly in pvp...in pve it is up soon enough to really never need to worry about endurance. Slotting it 3 end mod and 3 recharge reduc + lightning reflexes means that it will be up even faster.

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There's always someone like you posting, so I guess I should grow some think skin. Listen, just because someone has concerns about the set doesn't mean they're whining. If you disagree, fine. You're entitled to. But don't be so ignorant and label anyone that doesn't bow at the feet of this set as a whiner.
I don't want the set to be overpowered, that would just mean future nerfs. I want the set to be fun and on par with the other sets. I honestly don't feel that it is and I've given several examples about why I feel that way. I'm also testing the set and will relate my experiences in this test thread. That's what it's for after all.
I'm not whining. I'm trying to give constructive critcism.

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Teleportation pool + hover (or Air Superiority + Fly) and the Leaping pool are both viable selections for travel powers. Wonders can be done with TP and TPfoe with which you have an obvious lack of experience. Check out Elernet's example of what can be done via his vids. With the build I suggested earlier, you enter the combat instantaneously. This allows you to "shock" your opponent who may be fighting someone else. You can tpfoe a runner...which, if slotted correctly, can be up every 10 seconds with a fairly long range. LF + Swift + Hurdle = fairly fast, unsuppressed combat travel which you can switch to hover if you are dealing with knockback.

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So, you're successful with TP because you can gank people and kill steal? Way to prove me wrong.
TP Foeing of runners doesn't work very well on SJers. Regardless, TP foe isn't TP. I'm talking about chasing people down with teleport, not cycling them with TP foe. TP foe isn't a "travel" power. Any schmo can perma-TP foe someone over and over and plink their HP away. Also, supplementing TP with unsuppressed movement speed is padding the viablity of TP. If you want to say "TP + Hover + slotted swift/hurdle/LR + TP foe is amazing travel" then ok, I'll agree. However, I said that TP was not good for chasing runners. You've done little to convice me and yes, I have plenty of experience.
Maybe I exaggerated by saying a TPer would never kill anyone, but no way is it on par with SS, Fly or SJ.

-Fly powers negate the KB protection form Hover. There are plenty of -fly powers in PvP, especially on the Hero side. It can be ok in some situations, but I wouldn't rely on Hover for KB protection in that environment.

Fire has it's issues, no doubt, but this isn't the place to talk about it.
But now you know why some of us would like to see this set done right the first time.

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And what exactly is this set supposed to do? I don't think power sets come with a mission statement. You argued earlier that it should have higher resists, but it seems to have more S/L than either fire or dark armour. No, it doesn't have Invuln level resists, but then again all invulnerability has is resists. They do get dull pain, but the differentiation between invuln and all the other resist sets is that they have utility and/or damage powers.
Quickness, Power Sink, and Conserve power are all utility. Electric armour also has Psy resists.


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What's it supposed to do? Help you survive and mitigate damage. Sure, it does that, but the question is "How well?" You don't need a mission statement, that's common sense.

DA and Fire have a heal, which warrants lower resistance. They also have effective means of secondary damage mitigation. Fire in the form of higher damage potential. DA in the form of crowd control. Electric gets... end drain, which isn't effective unless it's 100%, which would make it ungodly overpowered.

However, Electric also gets an auto recharge boost and the means to generate more endurance, which will aid in staying in the fight longer and defeating enemies quicker. That's the optimistic view. I don't think it will work that way at all. Fire plays the "kill things quicker" card already and it stills gets a heal.

After some thought and contemplation, I think the lack of a heal might be fine... I guess *shrug*
Soloing will be rough as all hell, but definitely in the realm of balance. The lack of KB and Immob is still uncalled for though.

Let's hold off on talking about how great Lightning Reflexes may or may not be. If it's anything like Quickness from SR, then it might be worth something. I have my doubts about the slow resistance though. Ice Armors passive slow resist (in Permafrost) is pitiful. I'm betting that this will be as well, but only time will tell.

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How wrong you are. I won't go into why because this isn't the official teleport board.

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People are always on the move in PvP. You can't keep up with Teleport only. Stalkers can get away with it, but that's about it.
If you're telling me you are highly effective at chasing runners and kiting with TP, I'm calling shenanigans.

As for the set, I know it needs holes. I just think the holes it was given are poorly thought out and not on par with what the other resist sets do. All sets have a secondary damage mitgation ability that warrants holes and lack of KB. DA and Fire... it makes sense and we all deal with it and accept it.
However, Endurance Drain isn't effective secondary damage mitgation unless it's 100%.... and that would be overpowered. Hence, the set needs something to fall back on because these other situational Pros (slow resist, end drain resist, - recovery, psi resist, TP resist) just don't cut it. They just aren't prevalent enough in the game to warrant such drawbacks and power pool reliance.

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Even so, every single hole is filled with the appropriate power pool selections. I don't understand the moaning that is being dredged up by this new secondary.

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Then you aren't paying attention. Read that first sentence again.

If you take Hover + TP as your only mode of travel, you will never kill anything in PvP unless you invest heavily in web grenades.

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To summarize most of the comments so far:

Pluses:
* Endurance recovery
* Slightly above average resists
* End drain protection
* Psionic protection
* Recharge and run speed boost

Minuses:
* No knockback
* No immobilize
* No health recovery/boost


As you have more to add, please post it up. We need a clear summary from time to time to lay out what has been found.

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IMO, the resists, thus far, should be in the Con section. They aren't high enough for what this set is supposed to do.
Caveat: We need to get a Brute up to a respectable level for testing before my statement can be more than speculation.

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I rather liked the idea of replacing it with a Reconstruction clone type power. Fits thematically, isn't as redundant and makes it a bit more original amongst the Brute sets.

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Isn't Healing Flames and Aid Other both pretty much like Reconstruction (a clicky self-heal)? I'm suggesting an Integration-clone-type-power.

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This shows you how much I know about Regen. I thought Reconstruction was the Stamina-like power... the auto-end recovery one. What is that? Quick Recovery?

That's what I thought the guy that suggested it meant. Quick Recovery. That would make the set freakin' amazing, holes be damned. It would at least let us reliably opt out of Fitness.

I rather liked the idea of replacing it with a Reconstruction clone type power. Fits thematically, isn't as redundant and makes it a bit more original amongst the Brute sets.

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You may not need Stamina with this build (need to experiment) so that frees up slots to grab Acrobatics.

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Catch 22 here.
Energy Aura can get away with this because it only needs to run 3 toggles to be successful.
You just proposed not taking Stamina and adding two extra toggles. Good luck with that.
You need 3 basic toggles for your damage resistance/mezz protection. If you want to run the damage aura, that makes 4. CJ and Acro? Now you have 6. Tough? 7.
Keep in mind that you still to actually attack and, if you're one of the desparate folks, use Aid Self as well.
No way would anyone be able to funtion running 6-7 toggles without Stamina, especially in PvP.

Hover used to be good for KB protection until ED gutted it's movement speed potential. I used it on my DA Scrapper for a long time.

I've wanted to play an Electric melee character since the day I started playing this game. My first character was an Electric/Electric Blaster who I've played as a Blapper since Day One.

I will play this set. I will play the hell out of it. I will give as much feedback as I can, positive and negative. I don't want this set to be good, I want it to be great. What we have right now doesn't seem anywhere near that level, IMO. At least not with what we're given within the set itself. Which is where it should be balanced, not by what power pools can be crammed into it.

My tone so far has been on the negative side, I'll admit, but it's not because I want this set to suck.
I know the Devs will read this thread. I know that they will read some of my comments (I hope!) and posts from those that agree with me and those that don't. That's exactly what we need. That's what the set needs. Some serious debate. I know they think they've created a well-balanced set. I'm no game developer, that's for damn sure, but I know where my fun factor lies... and this set is punching holes in it.
Hopefully these comments will be taken to heart and some serious thought will be given to them. If nothing ever changes, fine, but at least I gave my insight and opinions and can take comfort in the fact that they've been read and considered.

As with the last thread, I could be jumping the gun with my ranting. The numbers on the resists don't look promising so far though. If the end drain turns out to be as good as I hope, then all my ranting is for naught. End Drain is a very powerful tool if used properly, I'm just not very optimistic that they'd give the full potential of this ability to a Brute.

More than anything though, I'm annoyed as all hell at this sets reliance on outside help to cover it's "weaknesses." This set, more than any other I've ever seen, seems to be balanced around power pools. Weak.
I have a lot of experience with resistance based sets and the lack of a heal bothers me. Invul get an HP boost and a heal, DA gets an AoE heal, Fire gets a heal, Stone (which is Def and Resist) gets an HP boost/Heal as well. I just don't see how giving Electric resistance levels equal to these sets can be justified without some sort of health recovery.

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I don't see any mediocrity for pve. I see a set that does outstanding in pve and pvp so long as you fill the holes.

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As much as I hate repeating myself over and over again, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren't a part of the last Electric Brute 'debate' thread.

You see, it's the holes that are the problem. There are too many of them. This set was balanced around power pools. You know, those "optional" things that we're not supposed to be required to take in order to "do our job."
Will an Electric Brute be able to do it's job without the three hole-filling PPs you mentioned? Sorta. Sure, I guess. Will it be [censored] annoying as all hell? Subjective, but you'll get a healthy Yes from me. I don't want to take Leaping. I don't want to take Aid Self. I really don't want to take Fighting.
I want to take Flight, SS and Stamina. That's it. Why should I be penalized so much for not filling these arbitrary and unoriginal holes?

Why are we focused on the holes? Because they don't balance with the benefits. I'm not ignoring them. I'm well aware that they're there. However, I don't think they're enough. Situational mezz protection does not a well-rounded set make.

Mediocrity in PvE for viability in PvP. Sad, really.

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all electricity does defense-wise is resistance, so it needs to be really good at resistance. it's not.


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A lot of sets dont have resist to slow, end drain and recovery debuff, along with tp foe (if you PvP). This set also has powers to let you skip stamina AND hasten, plus an awesome tier 9.

Im guessing its going to be near /da in terms of resist. If you want uber resist, play a invuln.

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All of that would be well and good if end drain and -recovery were actually something worth fearing in PvE. Outside of Carnies and Longbow Spec-Ops (which are easily displaced by one Dominator), it's virtually non-existant. Knockback and Immob on the other hand...

The only "secondary" form of damage mitigation this set has is end drain, which is crap unless it's accompanied by -recovery, which the set lacks. DA is 'balanced' by it's AoE control powers, Fire by it's potential damage output. Both of which are relevant in most situations.
If we're supposed to use our end drain to help mitigate damage, then it better be REALLY friggin good. Something tells me that ain't happenin'.

The resists on this set are way, way too low. It will get eaten alive. Resistance to a bunch of highly specialized and rare (or non-existant) status effects in PvE (slow, end drain, -recovery, tp foe) just don't make up for what it offers. Sorry, but it doesn't.


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Ya, it's kinda lame you gotta take all of the leaping pool, Aid Self, AND tough to really make the set shine, but once you do you've got from what I can see a VERY capable pve brute and an outstanding pvp brute.

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Yay for diversity, eh? [censored]

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I think the tank who fought me in Warburg today had read this guide. I didnt know any thing about Ice armor before this guide except that it is Teh_Gimpzor. So any way, to day in the WEB I came across an Ice/EM tanker. So we began fighting, and I was winning at first, when suddenly, BAM, I am at half endurance from 80% endurance. Then, my attacks are all slowed. And then I get stunned through integration. We slugged it out, and my QR made a good show, but EA and CE eventually drained me and took my teeth away. After a long epic battle (Probably five minutes. In the middle some MM punk showed up and we whooped him together) He beat me. He was a great sport, and offered me my Code back as we congratulated eachother. But I let him keep it, he earned it for beeting my FOTM [censored] with his "Gimp" build

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Are you on Infinity? You've just described what i do ona regular basis! I always offer up a chance to return codes if I'm not hunting for them. No sense in wasting hard-earned codes.

If it was me you're talking about, then no, I didn't read Darth's guide. I've been a PvPing Ice/EM Tank since Issue 4. I already knew everything he talked about! Darth just has the patience and style fit for writing guides. I've tried, but I suck at it.

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Ice Armor is a 2 trick pony. Massive End drain and the Hibernation chicken button. That's about it. If you resist End drain, you can just pummel them into hibernation over and over. Myself, I can beat one to a pulp with my brute, but they always just hibernate.


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What Tanker defensive set isn't a 1-2-3 trick pony? That comment doesn't even make any sense. Hell, what brute or Scrapper defensive set isn't? Maybe DA, if you stretch it.

Ice is what it is. Don't be bitter because you can't kill one. If you're jealous of your craptacular Tier 9, there are Devs you can talk to about that.

My personal "ideal" definition of balance in this game is a mixed team with a variety of ATs using a variety of powersets VS the same type of team. Each team has a somewhat equal chance of beating the other. The deciding factor in this battle is player skill and ingenuity and, to a much lesser extent, power selection.

The PvP we have now isn't anything like that. At all.
Just reading this post (and several others) makes this blatantly obvious. We have the "Hardcore Test PvP" crowd telling us that such-and-such a power is easily countered by such-and-such a power. If you don't have it, you lose. How is that balance? Better yet, how is that fun? If you absolutely need any specific powerset, or power, for your team to stand a chance, then the system is borked. There are several of these examples in this thread... and every other "Nerf XX" thread in this forum.

The changes the Devs have made in the last few months are moving the PvP in this game closer to "my" ideal sense of balance. I don't think it will ever truly get there though. There's too much variety for this to ever be possible.

The changes made to Hurricane are a step in the right direction, but are a "tad" too harsh. I think they'll see that (hopefully) and adjust it as needed.
Regardless, the PvP in this game should not be balanced by what the "hardcore" folks do. What we have now is PvP which requires certain powers at the exclusion of several powersets, and to some extent entire ATs. This is a huge turn-off. That's not balance. That's not even fun.

EDIT to clarify: I'm talking about powersets and ATs, not slotting.

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or other powers which are worse than getting pinned to a wall, how about powers like sonic cage and detention field that prevent a player from playing indefinitely as long as the cager wants to follow them around


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If Hurricane fell victim to the nerf bat, what makes you think SC and DF are safe? Or even FB and TK?

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I still think a Melee-Only class wil not be able to beat a Stormer without de-toggling Hurricane.

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You mean like when I kicked your [censored]? Mwuahaha!

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EM stuns! You detoggled my 'Cane!

OMG! Nerf Ice Tanks! Not even all Ice Tanks, just Ice/EM Tanks!

Scratch that! Just nerf PMM's Ice/EM Tank!

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The best was when I had you on follow and overjumped... only to accidentally hit Whirling Hands at the right moment and disorient you with it. Ahahahaha!!!1 Freakin' Whirling Hands!!!

Mai skillz r unmatchedd!!1

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I still think a Melee-Only class wil not be able to beat a Stormer without de-toggling Hurricane.

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You mean like when I kicked your [censored]? Mwuahaha!