PrincessDarkstar

Yeah I agree, I was playing for a long time without any set bonus' at all and it was only when I felt like taking on an AV or two that I even bothered looking at my build, and my first AV's were soloed with a much weaker build than the one above.

Hehe I agree completely, it took me a lot of effort to reach the softcap and had to sacrifice more than I would like to get there, but under-powered is so far off the mark there is no way anyone can seriously ask for a buff lol.

Still FFG > Dispersion Bubble will always confuse me.

Actually once I have the aggro I pretty much do nothing else all fight apart from healing/shielding my bots, but I guess you are just faster on the healing key than I am

Plus for me every time there are 2 bots in need of healing I always heal the same one as my Protector Bots, so the other always dies

Well this is my only villain side toon so he gets all my inf, but compared to my hero side budget this is very limited. The hardest thing villain side though isn't price - it is availability.

As Obscure Blade said the combo works really well, prior to speccing into Hover I wasn't able to defence cap myself very easily (Dispersion Bubble needs buffing imho) and was relying on the bots, but they die very very fast whenever they do get hit and I hate resummoning.

Currently I fly ahead of the bots, cast Electric Fences and then watch the mayhem, using the taunts if I have to and healing the bots whenever they get a bit of AoE damage.

Works very well*

*The only things I don't like fighting are Romans and Warwolves since they don't immob well and tend to ignore Force Bubble too! Even longbow, vanguard sword and nemesis are no challenge really (Apart from when a Sonic and Rad Warden pair up!).

I didn't know that, and yes it is well worth noting!

Ah I knew Gaussian's was unique but didn't know about the Decimation being unique.

Yep works very well too. I prefer the End/Fly combo because I like flying slightly faster, but that is a very good idea.

I think it is a unique IO so can't go in both Tactics and Nova, plus Tactics doesn't work when in Nova form, so is only useful for people fighting in human form.

I think the general idea of having plenty of build up procs is a good idea, but a bit unreliable for my liking I think.

I can see the idea behind it, but the problem is that even 11% tohit doesn't really allow you to skimp on accuracy in the powers, even 3 slotting Nova for tohit means you will still want at least one accuracy IO in each individual power.

Imho you are better off putting something like an endmod/endrdx or flyspeed into the single Nova slot (I went for then End/Fly Hami-O) and just concentrate on the powers.

That is what I do (Or did anyway) so the way I did it was to 5 or 6 slot the Nova powers, then give lots of slots to the beneficial human powers (Eclipse, Stygian etc etc) and then use the left over slots to get the best bonus' you can.

I also ended up taking Super Speed and Super Jump to use as out of combat movement since they are faster than Nova.

So the power pools are mostly powers that you may not use often but do provide some utility (Travel powers, medicine pool etc) and are better than no slotted human powers you would never use.

I actually want the assault bot as a playable set

Agreed! I don't like the way the bubbles look anyway.

This

Defence cap + saturated Eclipse means a human only warshade would have 95% protection to all mez (The only achilles heel really) and would take less than 1% of any incoming damage so would be massively overpowered, and sadly just increase the gap between them and PB's.

I would do it slightly different and have PB's give back what they get and Warshades give the opposite, which is in line with the way the inherants are different at the moment and means that both AT's would be giving the team the same bonus (IE: A tank gives a PB damage and a WS resistance, but both give damage back to the tank), so there would be no teams looking for a PB over a WS (Or vice versa) just because the leader wanted a certain bonus.

I don't think the bonus numbers need changing either really, giving a tank 10% more resistance isn't really overpowered* considering buffs like the magic pack.

*I actually think any idea like this would be done more to make Kheldians popular than for balance issues, because I don't think we are performing anywhere near as badly as percieved.

To clarrify that point, Stamina and similar powers actually activate for 10.something seconds once every 10 seconds, so they will activate when you are in human, then once you swap forms the power will only be active for the remainder of that 10.something seconds.

More general advice for the pool powers is: yes most people take a lot of pool powers.

Warshades get some very cool powers (and a few that aren't quite so good) but even the good powers need slots and the key mistake people make it taking too many powers and ending up underslotting them all, so they can't really do anything well.

The best advice I can give you is to prioritise your human powers and slot them up as you want, then once you have ran out of slots start looking to the powers that don't need any, the power pools provide a lot of these kind of powers, even more so if you have a large budget and can take powers as IO mules. Despite being a generalist AT, trying to take and thus underslotting too many powers waters you down too much.

Oh last piece of advice, even if you only take 1 power pool pick: make it Hasten*

*which you can only click in human form, but the bonus carries over into the other forms for as long as Hasten lasts.

The 4 abilities thing may sound bad, and on SO's probably is just about ok, but the more recharge you add the less you worry about only having 4 attacks (Hell I only use 3 of them normally!).

And yes Nova has a 45% damage boost and a 1.2 damage modifier

When I run numbers I would tend to go with one for powers slotted 3 dam/3 rech and then another for say 100% global recharge on the same slotting. And working out the best attack chain for either of those situations. For an SO build the above chain works I think, but gets so much better when you can leave out most of the single target blasts due to high recharge.

But I wouldn't count Gravatic Emination either way, nor would I could Stygian Circle.

I would probably go for Eclipse > Sunless Mire (Hitting say 1,5 and 10 targets) > Nova > Attacks.

You can do this for a solo Warshade versus a Warshade covered in blasters too (IE with the damage bonus).

Edit: Sorry to make this sound like I want you to do work, I don't mean it that way.

I have no idea how you would get the pet numbers, but the rest of the numbers I would happily take.

You are right however that the problem becomes what happens when you drop out of Nova and start fighting in Dwarf, but even then I would do the following:

Compare Nova to a blaster
Compare Dwarf with pets and lots of foes to a scrapper
Compare Dwarf without pets or foes to a tanker

Each situation occurs at different times for different people, but I would definately think the Warshade would come out very well under every situation bar tanking (Especially when working out for good recharge).

Firstly if you meant you actually find some of my posts offensive I apoligise!

Second I know some people are just not going to like the way Khelds play, and I am fine with that, but a lot of this thread has been about how they perform based on effectiveness.

And lastly: Neither side has shown any facts yet, but it is generally down to those who want something to happen to prove that they are right.

Well considering they went through a revamp recently I doubt that. But assuming I am willing to listen to you; what are the problems? All I have seen is people not liking shapeshifting (Fair play - not everyone will like that) or unproven performance issues.

I haven't analysed anything, I am just asking those who think something is wrong to show me what.

Well if someone says Kheldians don't do enough DPS then I would like to see someone show where they are on the DPS scales and then we can decide if they are below where they should be.

If someone can do that and prove the time taken to shift to and from Nova is detracting too heavily from the DPS abilities then I would be only too happy to join you in saying Khelds need a buff.

And you can do this for whichever aspect you care to mention, but I think the numbers will just back up those people who say khelds are performing where they should.

Lol I don't 'actually' think you should leave the game You made a statement that if it isn't fun then leave, and you are the one who said (Or implied) you don't find Khelds fun so must be the one not having fun. By your own logic you should leave, not by mine.

Oh by no means should everyone get stuck into the spreadsheets or whatever, but if you are trying to say something isn't working right then you need to prove it. If you are just going with the flow then fine you don't need to know the numbers, but as soon as you want to talk about changes then you need to know what and why.

Experience proves nothing. All it proves is that you don't 'like' Kheldians, or that you didn't play them right. Or possibly that you expect something wrong from them.

It is like DNA evidence against word of mouth in court, word of mouth is ok but when you have 50 conflicting stories is becomes less useful and you need something more substantial.

I know you didn't say you had a "Don't do anything" attitude, I just read the wrong thing into what you were saying by the looks of it.

And I do agree with you on the feedback thing, not everyone is a maths wizz, but feedback based on how things feel is generally useless since like fun, feelings are too subjective.

I never meant to imply anything about your opinion on the devs. I just meant that I can't begin to imagine how much 'i feel this is lacking' feedback they must get.

I will admit to being wrong about what you meant in some places, but I don't think how something feels to be performing can be a good enough indicator since it is obvious so many people feel different things.

I was talking more of Sunless Mire being a danger and I know it isn't much of a danger due to Inky Aspect/Shadow Cloak/Eclipse, but as well as the chance you make take an alhpa to the face there are also the times when there are not enough mobs about to get much of a boost, which would never happen with a clicky Build-Up.

Warshade powers need to have the ability to be much higher than PB powers because they should have a chance of falling totally flat and doing nothing, and you should need to work to get the best out of them. The PB powers should be aimed to be whatever the average Warshade player can get out of their powers.

I don't think that is really fair (Especially now the double Mire thing doesn't really work), that is like giving none Kinetic defenders a damage boost. Both Khelds should start out the same and have the powers make the differences.

Agreed.