PleaseRecycle
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Posts
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Quote:Do you care if you're rude to a person?Originally Posted by plainguy
Fortunately I don't care if I'm rude to a Moderator or Dev. -
I could see someone disliking piercing rounds if their preferred playstyle is "stand or float in one spot and blast away." If that's how you roll you're unlikely to hit two targets often or three targets ever. If that does not describe you, definitely take piercing rounds. Its recharge is double that of the tier 3 blast but in every other way it is superior. I enjoy DP and now Beam all the more for their narrow, high damage cone mechanics: they put the "fun" back into "perfunctory effort on your own part!"
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Quote:I think she meant how strong they are in terms of their overall value in the grand defensive scale of things. I happen to think they're really good. Some may find them unsuitable to defend the louse that sits atop the mouse in their outhouse. Who's to say?Originally Posted by New Dawn
On average, I think its around 30%, with all 3 passives on my SR. So each passive is about 10% . What I did was get to 1 hp, record every resistance level with every regen tick then divide the sum of them by the number of regen ticks until my resistance was back to 0. With 59% being max 30% was median anyway.
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Oops, you're right. I could have sworn I saw eight seconds for rib cracker! Evidently not, as the in-game number I am looking at is quite clearly five. Well that does make it easier to contemplate skipping. Maybe they designed the set specifically to baffle prospective chain-makers.
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Yeah sorry I messed up my recharge consideration of CU, would have saved you and BrandX some time heh. RC's debuff lasts eight seconds, which means it only just fails to cover my own much longer attack chain. You could use more purple procs but I'm not sure that's worth the investment and the slot compared to simply putting hecatomb into heavy blow and bookending every other attack with it. That actually produces more proc opportunities than MA's chain of SK -> CS -> SK -> EC because RC and SB are so quick to animate. I'm not positive that HB -> SB -> HB -> SC -> HB -> RC -> HB -> CU would be better than any other given chain, but I suspect it would be pretty competitive from all the proc chances and the pretty evenly sustained -res.
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Hrm. If your dps calculation isn't factoring in the -res from RC, I'd have to imagine that it would increase dps by more than three against most targets. However, if you are already counting it, that is a tougher call. Dropping RC would improve dps slightly, but it would eliminate a very easy 3.75% s/l defense. Not that soft capping that is going to be "hard," but... Something to think about.
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Ah you're right about CU's recharge. Obviously my brain fell out.
Certainly HB -> SB -> HB -> SC -> HB -> RC -> HB -> CU would be easier to run, if perhaps not the best single target chain? That does have the advantage of integrating a cone (or SS if you'd prefer the taoe) into the ST chain which of course doesn't matter against an ideal single target but in practice will help cull the big guy's helpers.
I don't find it surprising that MA does better DPS, those last buffs were pretty excellent and you'd hope MA would be good after this many adjustments!
Giving it more thought, I'd definitely use SS instead of SC as the "single target auxiliary finisher" because then you're getting the fear effect as well as the increased area. Hecatomb would be lovely in HB, kinetic combats in RC and SB, and any old junk in CU. I think I have my attack chain, thanks for the help! -
Well since assassin's strike gives two combo points it wouldn't make sense to give three with stalker build up as two of them would frequently be redundant. It would make sense to give that last point either to placate or to build up. Have you suggested this to synapse? Maybe he didn't think of it.
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Quote:This has very little to do with whether it's actually better on brutes or scrappers.Originally Posted by Giant2005
It is better on a Brute. The combo mechanic is enhanced by Fury but not by Criticals.
I've seen way more street justice brutes than scrappers but, well, this has very little to do with whether it's actually better on brutes or scrappers. -
Quote:It looks to me like it a chain of rib cracker -> heavy blow -> shin breaker -> heavy blow -> crushing uppercut would not be outside the realm of possibility. If you use initial strike instead of heavy blow it should be easier without much of a dps sacrifice. This is obviously not going to be a cheap build either way, but without doing the math I dare guesstimate that its dps is very respectable. Shin breaker with an achilles' heel, initial strike or heavy blow with procs if that's possible. Maybe only for initial strike.Originally Posted by Obitus
(For what it's worth, my own at-a-glance calcs at this early date show that StJ's single-target DPS is mediocre on a Scrapper, well behind Martial Arts.
(More to the point, Crushing Uppercut is awesomesauce, but one great-DPA attack doesn't necessarily make for great DPS.)
Actually I guess it wouldn't be impossible to run rib cracker -> shin breaker -> initial strike -> crushing uppercut. That's a lot of global recharge but people do stranger things. I wonder if the rib cracker debuff stacks from the same target. -
He gave you guys nearly two months notice here. Whether you consider the reward to be worth making a new scrapper on a different server is one thing, but this is a forum that typically embraces challenge above all else. Looks appropriate to me.
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Okay this is a blaster's perspective on beam rifle, ATG, but here's how it goes down. You lead with disintegrate, yes, but you immediately follow up with piercing shot. This has two effects: the first is dealing increased damage and -res to your primary target, presumably a boss. The other effect is that since you will have surreptitiously lined up another enemy or two into the cone, when it hits the entire spawn will aggro because you've hit more than just one guy. Now the entire spawn is running at you and disintegration may spread freely.
My problem as a blaster is that since I haven't finished ioing yet, this sometimes leads to my doooooooooom as I am not near the range softcap. Your problem as a corruptor may be that you don't have piercing shot yet. If that's the case, I can't guess if it is or not, the main cone would be a good stand-in. The objective is to get the whole spawn coming at you as a blob for obvious reasons. If you're /ta, you should have ample means of bogging them down for aoeing. -
I said SS/FA, as in "SS/FA is tedious dreck."
Wow, amazing. I just looked at the brute forum and there are only three threads on page one with SS/FA in the title. There are way more than three threads actually about SS/FA, but this has to be the lowest SS/FA index all year. -
It would be great, Granite. The more you can invest in the character, the more each bit of investment benefits DA. My SJ dude is still low level but my educated guess is that it follows that same rule. That is to say that the set looks like it performs well over a wide spectrum of builds, but if you happen to be able to get crushing uppercut recharging in six seconds, so much the better. A mid-range SJ/DA would still be quite the trooper, you just need to be a little more careful around the big piles of guys. I don't think it's a primary that only functions well up to a certain point.
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Sonic blast is the only defender secondary I can stand to play past level 10. I have two at 50. One is purpled out. I'd say secondary can make a difference.
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Quote:It's slightly better DPA but I have a sneaking suspicion that initial strike's minuscule cast and recharge times make it suitable for some chains that would be more difficult or expensive with heavy blow. My SJer is still in the teens so I haven't actually conjured up a build yet.Originally Posted by Giant2005
Heavy Blow isn't really skippable (Unless you are a tank). You have to take one of the first two powers and it is superior to Initial Strike.
I just don't think the set needs a buff, it's already stepping on MA's toes in so many ways. If it did need a buff that would be one way to do it, though I get the feeling that the devs wouldn't go for finishers as builders given how lenient the combo system already is. Compare it not only to dual blades, but also for instance the eagle's claw crit boost thing, which resembles a combo effect but is even more finicky than DB. And it was a recent addition!Quote:The phrase you used "have your cake and eat it too" is actually a fair way of describing my proposal but it also gives me an idea of an apt amendment to it: instead of removing it as a finisher, how about altering finishers so that if they are used at combo level 0, they act as a builder? Seems fair to everyone and a suitable buff.
On occasion I forget that internet disagreement is not in fact a cataclysmic situation. I lost a part of my soul in the blasters suck wars, and sometimes I wonder if there is to be any absolution for we, the survivors.Quote:Finally, I'd like to say I appreciated your post. I am not saying that in some kind of condescending or snarky manner, I thought it was well thought out and I enjoyed reading it. -
I know, and I agree, I'd love to be able to put oblits into spinning strike. I just found it amusing that it took more than a page for anyone to point out that this would in fact be a large buff.
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You're right, I was incorrect that CU beats KO with no combo.
I do not concede that sweeping cross would be better as a builder because that would not only deny lowbies an excellent use of the combo system, it would also strip it of its secondary effects which are themselves very useful, and it would replace it with, as you say, a wildly inferior finisher in one of the ST attacks. Heavy blow is easily the most skippable thing in the set and that would be even more true if it were a finisher.
You seem to want to have your cake and eat it too - sweeping cross as a builder but without reducing its stats in any way from the combo 3 version, meanwhile ditching a power that you already wanted to ditch anyway. This makes the set way less playable at low level or on the cheap but who cares, there's farming to do. Or, reduce the stats of sweeping cross and give the set worse aoe in exchange for slightly easier comboing with SS.
"My solution" is to enjoy the set as it actually is. The devs didn't make it the top aoe performer because they didn't. That's all there is to it. I doubt it crossed their minds, in fact, they appear to have been more focused on "is this set fun?" They succeeded brilliantly at that, and it happens that the set also has very good aoe besides. Why isn't that good enough? -
I had a goal similar to your own. Here's what I came up with: http://i.imgur.com/tFoPO.jpg
43.95% s/l defense, 3.50 eps recovery and with constant ageless usage I just barely squeak by on endurance when maintaining single target dps, musculature and reactive for even more damage, full health at any time and for any reason, vengeance to trivialize incarnate stuff with the help of my lovely assistant PuG Teammate, and a functional hold for usefulness on LG and elsewhere. Oooh, and complete invisibility for that velvety smooth stealth feeling.
The real reason I went MA/DA though was because I couldn't remember ever seeing one and certainly not one done up all pretty-like. Turns out it's a great combo, especially with a little bit of investment. My suggestion to you is to come up with something similarly weird. Sure a purpled SS/FA is good, but who cares? It's been done and nobody is impressed anymore. -
Are you aware that using any number of combo points contributes damage to finishers in a fairly linear manner? You don't have to use them at level 3. The only specific reward for combo 3 in either power is the added status effect. Since you yourself in this very thread derided status effects as worse than useless, this is a non-issue for you.
Have you actually looked at the recharge of the powers? With a high end build you can run SC -> SS -> SC -> a couple builders/crushing uppercut -> repeat with only a couple small gaps. This will do far more aoe damage than you could ever hope to achieve by building up to combo 3 before using a finisher. At the same time, it leaves players with the versatility to achieve good aoe performance with low recharge builds by chasing combo levels.
When the servers are back up, we'll see exactly how much better KO blow's dpa is than crushing uppercut's! And there they are - 61 vs 66. Significantly higher? You be the judge. It only takes combo level 2 for CU to beat KO.
Oh and sorry for being terse but if you're trying to tell me that breath of fire is the ultimate cone because it hits ten targets and doesn't do secondary effects while also perpetuating the bizarre nonsense about street justice being bad for aoe, I reserve the right. -
It's pretty funny watching everyone try to dance around the fact that what they're really asking for is a huge buff to the potency of an already-great power. Just come out and say it guys, the devs can understand what you're getting at.
If they don't change it, look at it this way: it will be a perfect place to stick the scrapper archetype set once they put those up for sale. -
Quote:Then stop using it in an inept manner???Originally Posted by Giant2005
No it is bad because using it weakens both Crushing Uppercut and Spinning Strike which are the two most powerful attacks in the set.
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Whew, okay, I took a few deep breaths and I'm back.
Quote:As the servers are down right now I can't check the exact numbers but basically you're saying you wish the first finisher not only did less damage than sweeping cross but were also single target. Setting aside my powerful, powerful desire to be nonconstructive, it seems that your issue here is that you only like pbaoes and don't use cones in the first place. This change would enable you to skip sweeping cross and still have another finisher available. Am I far from the mark? My problem with this is that it would severely weaken the set with the justification of "because that's how it should work!"Originally Posted by Giant2005
Well... no.
If I had my way, I'd have Heavy Blow and Sweeping Cross switched. the prime AOE finisher has a shorter cooldown than the single target finisher so it makes more sense for the third finisher to be a single target attack over an AOE to make chaining easier.
The thing is, you can use sweeping cross without combo levels and it's still an excellent cone. Fire it off immediately after spinning strikes and it will have no impact on your "combo generation," which is a really bizarre thing to get your knickers in a twist about in the first place since as I've repeatedly said in other threads, the set's dpa is obviously balanced around the powers being used without any combo levels. The entire combo system is a bonus on top of what you already get. As Synapse recently pointed out, crushing uppercut is significantly higher scale than KO blow and total focus. What more do you want?Quote:Also considering all of the builders are single target, changing one of the two aoes to be a builder instead of a finisher would make for a far more rounded set.
No they aren't. They aren't. No, listen: they're not. I mean it. If you cannot think of a single other way to make both of the powers work in a high end chain, you should at least be able to see how you can build up to combo 3, fire one, combat readiness, and fire the other. Both at level 3, incredible no?Quote:As it stands, StJ may have two decent AOE attacks but unless you want to completely ignore the combo mechanic, they are mutually exclusive and I think that needs to be changed - people will be much happier if one of the 5 single target attacks was rendered obsolete by the mechanic than if one of the two aoes were. -
Quote:Ah I see, so in much the same way breath of fire is also better than sweeping strike, golden dragonfly, headsplitter, jacob's ladder, ripper, and shatter. Gotcha.Originally Posted by Giant2005
Sweeping Cross has a DPA of 55.86, Breath of Fire 39.12
That makes it look like Sweeping Cross is superior but there is more to it than that, Breath of Fire has double the target cap, by hitting twice as many enemies, it deals more DPA than Sweeping Cross. Not to mention it covers a far greater Area of Effect, which unlike Sweeping Cross can be further increased with range enhancements.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-EZf56AfYc#t=24sQuote:More importantly, it isn't disadvantaged by secondary effects that weaken the powerset as a whole.
Sweeping cross is bad because it does extra damage and gains extra effects when you use combo points... hnhnnnnghhh???Quote:Using Sweeping Cross blows Combo points which should be used on a superior attack. Breath of Fire has no such drawback. -
Quote:Okay sorry but let me stop you right there. Breath of fire does ~97 damage in 2.67 seconds with ten second recharge. Sweeping cross does, at minimum, 93 damage in 1.67 seconds on an eight second recharge and applies a number of secondary effects. The only advantage for breath of fire is that it's a longer cone with a higher target cap, but it's also thirty degrees rather than fifty. This means it's basically useless unless you take a little hop backwards every time you use it. Sweeping cross is excellent used at its intended range of "right up in their grill."Originally Posted by Giant2005
Just nitpicking really but Fire also has Breath of Fire which is quite a bit superior to Sweeping Cross which makes Fire a better aoe set.
I think the proof is in the pudding. When's the last time you saw anyone taking and using breath of fire? FSC is also worse than spinning strike but I'll leave the demonstration of that as an exercise for the reader.