Pirates_Rule

"Wheres Slow? He was right behind me?" Neutrino exclaimed.

Captain Yarrrrr had had enough. He gulped down the rest of the rum and whipped the empty bottle into the view screen, shattering both. "[censored]! What's the real deal States? Why the Everynighters? What do you know, and what aren't you telling us?"

"We don't know anything more than you. We're planning a Longbow strike to try and create a distraction for some undercover Longbow agents to go in undercover. We'll know more soon."

"There's something you're not telling us, and I'm going to go find out what."

With that, Yarrrrr stormed out of the room, grabbed his broadsword and went to the workshop. After spending 10 minute at the forge sharpening his sword, he left for Independence Port. After Yarrrrr untied the Scally Wag, the ship set sail for the Rogue Isles.

Just after leaving port, he heard some clanging from below. Upon investigation, he found Cabin Girl and Captain Harrrrr sparring off.

"Cabin Girl, we're going to the Rogue Isles, the city's teleporters don't work there, you might want to stay behind."

"Are you serious? 3 pirates? What the hell could stand in our way?"

"Good point. With you at my side, no enemy stands a chance."

With that, Captain Yarrrrr settled in for the sail to the Rogue Isles, and relayed what had happened to his fellow pirates.

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Does that mean that for those of us who have both(after release I mean), we won't actually need two different installations, as they're practically the same code?

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They are the same code. The way the devs have explained it, you start the game, pick your server, and then you see a big list of all you characters both heroes and villains. If you pick a hero, you're playing CoH. If you pick a villain, you're playing CoV.

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But what if you pick your nose?

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Then you get to play City of Nasals.

I hear in a week or two they're gonna nerf mucus, it's overpowered in PvN.

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Does that mean that for those of us who have both(after release I mean), we won't actually need two different installations, as they're practically the same code?

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They are the same code. The way the devs have explained it, you start the game, pick your server, and then you see a big list of all you characters both heroes and villains. If you pick a hero, you're playing CoH. If you pick a villain, you're playing CoV.

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Oh, I guess I missed that post. But I figured that's how it would work, since that's how I'd do it if I were coding it...

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You know this is annoying, the COV beta uses the same directory as the TC so I can only realistically do one or the other.

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Once I6 hits test the patches for CoH and CoV will be almost the same so the patch back and forth from test to beta will not take the huge amount of time it does now. It will (supposedly) be much smaller.

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Does that mean that for those of us who have both(after release I mean), we won't actually need two different installations, as they're practically the same code?

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Wow, I didnt think they would really take that name suggestion. Glad they did of course, its great.

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While I would have preferred "Issue 6: Porky's revenge!", this works too.

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How about "Issue 6: City Under Siege".

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"Issue 6: It doesn't matter what we call it, someone is gonna cry DOOOOOOOOOOoooOOOoOOoOOoooOOOM!"

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CoV --> CoH QoL? And the introduction of CoV, of course. Seems like a ripoff to me, I love getting new content.

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Some of that QoL (that better be coming to CoH) is newspaper missions. I.e. a never-ending supply of missions for any of your characters. I'd say thats some pretty sweet content.

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I really hope they add the newspapers to CoH, since it's something many people have been asking for. I don't know if it will come in I6, but it would be very nice.

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Personally, I suggested to them that if they DO put this in CoH, then instead of newspapers heroes could get a police scanner instead. And instead of brokers, you'd seek out the security chief of each zone who would give you the scanner frequency for the zone.

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Finally a reason to go see the security chief that won't piss me off because its just another hunt...

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Take invincibility... Please... Ill gift wrap the focker for you and send you a framed picture of me on my bed in my skimpies with "XOXO love you lots Arcanaville" written on it in black marker.

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Much like passive resistance, this is yet another buff I was not asking for.

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Just because you weren't asking for it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.

Go ahead Arcana, you've earned it.

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Supergroup options update (bases themselves will require CoV)

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I believe creating/editing bases requires CoV. I think as long as your SG has one, you can enter/interact with it to your heart's content. Given the percentage of CoHers likely to get CoV, most SGs will probably have a base.

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CoV --> CoH QoL? And the introduction of CoV, of course. Seems like a ripoff to me, I love getting new content.

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Some of that QoL (that better be coming to CoH) is newspaper missions. I.e. a never-ending supply of missions for any of your characters. I'd say thats some pretty sweet content.

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The rest better be the QoL features of CoV, or I'm calling in KaliMagadalene's ninjas.

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If the QoL features do not arrive, there will be a one-time only halting of hostilities between pirates and ninjas, as me and my scurvy mates will have join forces with the despicable ninja-kind to take down whoever's [censored] idea it was to not include them for CoH.

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I and the legions of Knights Templar (BS, Mace and Axe) will join you brother. Besides the ninja will need help, being as lame as they are!

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Yeah, the only reason we're joining forces is because there's a more important cause, it's not likey're gonna contribute anything meaningful.

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The rest better be the QoL features of CoV, or I'm calling in KaliMagadalene's ninjas.

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If the QoL features do not arrive, there will be a one-time only halting of hostilities between pirates and ninjas, as me and my scurvy mates will have join forces with the despicable ninja-kind to take down whoever's [censored] idea it was to not include them for CoH.

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the only thing that can break me at the current un-ed moment is bu-aim. so whoever thinks sr is absolutly gimped...come gimme a holla..I got alot of time to spend in the arena.

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I bet 1 million influence that I can kill you in about 5 secs.
Focused accuracy + Build-up ( and I throw in Tatics for good measure, really don't need it though) + Head-spliter + Disembowel + Hack = Dead Sr's scrapper(even if you have 6 HOs in elude)

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Psh, I bet a million inf you can't finish that chain in 5 seconds.

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Besides... either way you get resists where you had nothing before... considering the numbers arent a joke like the damage debuff in chilling embrace

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Don't think about it as a change from then to now. Consider it as a retcon. You might consider it better than it used to be, because it was indeed better than it used to be. But consider a new player who creates an /SR. It would be even more frustrating for them than you, because you recognize that having the resists at all increases your survivability. The new player will feel the sting of the first hit even more than you did before there were resists, because as they get hit, it just accelerates their dying.

Think of all nerfs as retcons, they essentially are.

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Thanks, Statesman. Another good step in the right direction.

However, questions:
Why would I get BETTER at rolling with a punch the more I get my face smashed in? Shouldn't the dam-res start high? (I understand that this doesn't quite work with game mechanics, so let's move on.)

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why cant hey just reverse this... start it out at its peak, then drive it down at each color change in the HP bar?

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Because then, instead of slowing your time to death by increasing your defenses as your health decreases, it would in fact increase your speed towards death, much in the same way defense debuffs did.

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Super Reflexes Auto powers (Agile, Dodge, and Lucky) now add some minor damage resistance. This Damage resistance starts at 0%, but improves as the caster loses HP.

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Gee, can regenerators get defense when their hit points go down, then? Oh, that's right, regenerators are bad and must be punished, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.

THREE POWERS OUT OF THE REGENERATION SET CAN ONLY TAKE ONE TYPE OF ENHANCEMENT!!!!!! Explain how to "diversify" that!

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4 powers out of the /SR set only take one type of enhancement.

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Instead of giving SR Damage Resistance, or even more defense, perhaps sticking to the theme of SR is where the answer lies.

I have seen countless situations where the agile and dexterous Hero deftly avoids multiple opponents with such skill and grace that often the opponents hit each other with their own attacks.

I'm not sure how you would translate that into this game, but I'll toss out a suggestion.

Each of the passives, (melee, range, and AoE) has a chance to redirect all or some of the incomming attack to a nearby enemy. To make it feasable, the positional aspect of each auto power determines what attack can be redirected, for example: Your melee auto power can only redirect melee attacks, your range auto power can only redirect range attacks, and finally your AoE auto power redirects AoE attacks.

Now, to illustrate how this would work in keeping with the SR theme: Imagine your some agile Kung Fu Hero facing off against 3 Freakshow. They all rush you and begin melee attacks upon you. Since your Defense is now significantly reduced due to the ED changes, you can't rely on Defense alone to keep them from beating the snot out of you. So, every attack that overcomes your defense and "would" land, your new ability kicks in and makes a check to see if none/some/all of the damage is taken, and what damage, if any, is redirected to one of your opponents.

Scenareo: Freak Slammer swings his sledgehammer at you, you duck behind his Freak Stunner pal and us him as a shield, thus Freak Stunner takes the damage you would have taken.

Again, I'm not sure how this can be implememnted, or even *IF* it can be implemented, but it's just an Idea, and if it sparks some creative mojo in a Dev's brain, then my job is done.

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I think the implementation issue is probably at the forefront, but ignoring that, how about this:

Instead of a change to redirect all damage, or some amount of the damage, have a (somewhat) random split. Currently, you get attacked, the enemy either hits or it doesnt. Make it a 3 part chance.

If the enemy misses, then the enemy misses, works like now.

If the enemy hits, and their "roll" or however its actually calculated is less than some redirect threshold(lets say 2x defense whose source is a SR power, capping out around 60ish), then you can redirect the damage to the closest enemy. I say closest enemy because a), it makes sense (redirecting a ranged attack is pretty difficult, redirecting an AoE? much more so I would think), and b), given the AoE limit explanation, theres obviously something that already determines the "closest" enemy/ally built in. So if you redirect the attack, you will take some percentage of the damage, and the enemy takes whatever you don't.

If the "roll" is above the redirect threshold, you take full damage, as it was an especially accurate attack.

Eh?

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This isn't about gratefulness; I'll probably be able to play just fine without this sliding scale resist power thing, and after ED nerfs our defense. I just don't believe SR scrappers should be forced to have resistance; it's part of my character's theme to avoid getting hit, not to resist the damage that hits.

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Don't take your auto powers. No one forced you to take them. I don't particularly like resistance in my /SR, but I dislike having trouble surviving 3 spawns in a row even more. Please, don't take us down with your sinking ship.

Will this resistance be in any way enhanceable?

Against what types of damage will this resistance protect?

Will the resistance from each power stack, or is it just a set resistance granted after taking one of the powers?

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And to share a little test server run with a new build....Holy freaking cow.... the SR fixes are supposed to be a step towards helping defense, right?.... omg... i just tested in the arena against aim + build up and focused accuracy + tactics...

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The latest patch doesn't say that the defense debuff resistance has been added in yet:

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Now Testing in the Training Room - 9/23/05

Powers

F/X for all Sonic Resonance and Sonic Blast buffs and debuffs toned down. Many players complained of discomfort caused by these F/X.

Tasks

Fixed a bug that could cause a Contact to start a player on a Story Arc without giving them a mission.

Stores

The new Damage Resistance Inspirations can now be purchased in stores.

Game

Fixed a bug that caused sound to loop repeatedly and eventually crashed the game client.

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Very well. Take away Controllers' ability to lower Tanker and Scrapper defense in PvP. Keep in mind that Defenders will still be able to make your armour useless, causing you to run out of purples 5 minutes into a match. Also, keep in mind that many defenders can boost their acc.

What are controlers left with? We can't mez you, we can't hit you. We don't do much damage in the rare event that we do hit you.

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SR = 1 of 4 secondaries for scrappers. My best estimates would put it at 3rd most common next to /Regen and /Inv, and post I5, /DA might even be a larger percentage of post I5 created scrappers.

Ice = 1 of 4 primaries for Tankers. I would estimate its easily dead last in popularity. Stone is definitly 3rd.

You're complaining because 1 very uncommon and 2 fairly uncommon secondaries get the ability to resist your debuffs, whereas NO ONE ELSE can do so?

Gee, how many heroes in the SHW division are resistant to my lethal and/or smashing damage, which are my only forms of attack?

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Having played /SR to 50, and Ice/ to 48, alongside other equal level scrappers and tankers respectively, trust me when I say this is needed.

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With all due respect pirate, I think this shows itself not to be true. You made it to lvl 50 and probably could do so soloing easily. I doubt that easy soloing part can be said about a controller that specializes in defense debuffing or healing.

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Actually, I took my scrapper to 41 without Practiced Brawler(I was a noob, I thought acrobatics is only available at lvl 20, it must be better than PB at 12). That means whenever squishies talk about lack of mez protection, I understand completely what they mean. My first 25 levels or so with my /SR were done with the aid of an empath as a duo. My next 10 levels were tagging along with a fire/energy blaster who was higher level than me. The next 5 levels were solo. By 38 I ran out of missions, and tried to street hunt my way to 40, because the people I usually teamed with were MIA. This took me a month relative to the 6 to get to 38. Don't tell me soloing was easy. After that I started soling carnie and malta missions, which are some of the only enemies that /SR doesn't do poorly against.

The fact is, a SR scrapper should be overall equivalent to a Regen, DA, and Invuln, and they aren't. Ice tanks should be overall equivalent to Inv, Fire, and Stone, and they aren't. My Ice tank couldn't solo until the I5 changes. My scrapper could solo, yes, but the concept of longevity was non-existent. Most of the time when a defense based melee goes down, it's because of consecutive hits. You get hit, your defense is lower against the next hit, so you get hit again, and now your defense is even lower. When defense is your only means of damage mitigation, this means your going down fast, and probably won't have time to hit that inspiration, or for another player to heal you, or to get off that last hit to get rid of an enemy.

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I see you made it to level 50. Why, because you found a way to do it. Well, I think its only fair that I get a chance to do it as well with the same obstacles you had to overcome.

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Tell you what. Let's go run a Shadow Shard TF together. Last night I did it with 3 regens and an Invuln Tank(others dropped). In the missions where I didn't get a sound looping error (approx 4), I died at least once. On one mission, I died about 10 times, on average probably 5 deaths/mission. The regens at best, died half as much. I was using strategy, I took out watchers first, starting with bosses, and my team was competent. That's the only reason I survived as much as I did. At this point is should be obvious I don't really care about debt anymore, I'm just frustrated by the fact that I could be helping my teammates, but instead I'm dead, and I have to ask my teammates for an awake, again.

My points are not about PvP, I don't really care about it. I like that the devs are addressing the problems defense sets face in PvE, and I'm sorry you can't see the problems that exist. I'm especially happy that they aren't trying to fix these problems with normal resistance, but instead with a defense flavored change.

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Why, this is a bad idea:
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What you in essence are doing is taking all meaniing away from a character who specializes in defense debuffing. What is the point of defense debuffing if it is not to make an unhittable character hittable? Is the point to make some one that can already be hit be hit easier? Gosh, I hope not that does not sound like much of a power to me.

Why is there such a problem with a set of powers having a weakness to another set of powers?:

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It's not that defense sets have a weakness to another set. It's that defense sets have a weakness to almost *every* set. There exist far more powers which debuff defense than which debuff resistance. Having played /SR to 50, and Ice/ to 48, alongside other equal level scrappers and tankers respectively, trust me when I say this is needed.


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After all does not your datamining show that Peacebringers can survive in a world of challenge that have quantums interspersed?

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Kheldians are different, they're designed to be very versatile, they have many options on how to deal with a void/quantum enemy. Tanks and scrappers are designed pretty much to tank/scrap, this is a major difference IMHO.

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Giving resistance based sets the ability to resist resistance debuffs (what a mouthful), and then giving the ability to enhance resistance debuffs seems like this too might go a ways to help balance the differences between the sets.

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Resistance sets already have resistance to resistance debuffs equal to their resistance (let's see how much longer we can make this).

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Oh, interesting. Thanks for the info. And no, I don't think I could make it any longer.

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The Resistance % for the powers and Archetypes are as follows. The two numbers represent the Resistance at levels 1 and 50, respectively:

Scrapper
Super Reflexes
Focused Fighting: 4/21.6
Focused Senses: 4/21.6
Agile: 2/10.8
Dodge: 2/10.8
Lucky: 2/10.8
Evasion: 4/21.6
Elude: 10/54

Tanker
Ice Armor
Frozen Armor: 5.2/27.2
Wet Ice: 5.2/27.2
Glacial Armor: 5.3/27.2

Stone Armor
Rock Armor: 5.2/27.2
Rooted: 5.2/27.2
Crystal Armor: 5.2/27.2
Granite Armor: 13/68

The way this works is that the % above represent the amount subtracted from the incoming Defense Debuff. For instance, a level 50 Scrapper with Agile has any incoming Defense Debuff lessened by 10.8%.

Our general philosophy was to make it so that a player could achieve at level 50 high protection against Defense debuffs; a Defense build absolutely depends on the enemy missing his attacks!

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This sounds really good, but a few things need to be clarified:

Is this a defense debuff resistance on only one defense type, or all defense types? Will my Level 50 /SR scrapper have (w/o Elude):

21.6+21.6+10.8+10.8+10.8+21.6 = 97.2 defense debuff resistance?

Or will he have 32.4 defense debuff resistance to melee, ranged, and AoE attacks respectively?

Does the resistance cap affect defense debuff resistance? If the first scenario is the correct one, will I in fact be limited to 75% resistance instead of 97.2 (which in all fairness, seems pretty high, though I wouldn't complain).

For the Tanker sets, Does my Ice tank get 27.2 resistance to each individual damage type, or is it overall resistance?

Also, will anything be done to address the fact that defense debuffs can be enhanced, but resistance debuffs cannot? Giving resistance based sets the ability to resist resistance debuffs (what a mouthful), and then giving the ability to enhance resistance debuffs seems like this too might go a ways to help balance the differences between the sets.

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Defense is random, and fighting a hero with defense just takes luck. Resistance is reliable, and fighting a hero with resistance takes *time*. And time introduces a factor that you cannot stick into any spreadsheet -- player reaction. That player has time to eat an inspiration, get healed by a teammate, turn on another power, or just run away. The defense hero doesn't get those options. Resistance gives you time to play this game interactively. Defense is just like rolling dice.

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Well said. I would add that some players like the fast paced feeling that defense can offer, but its upsetting that when were performing comperably to resistance based sets, its usually because we're doing something we're not really expected to do, notably 6 slotting all your primaries as an Ice tank(which in I4 has devastating results), or using perma-elude with an SR scrapper. I can accept that sometimes I will go down fast, but it would be nice to have the same average staying power as a resistance set, which I don't feel we currently have.

That being said I'd offer up this idea, what if defense based sets got an ability to mimic the staying power that res gives? If each attack that lands through def gave a % bonus to defense against the next (and only the next) incoming attack, you'd be less likely to get those 4 blows right next to each other. Getting hit means your less likely to get hit again the next time, so that average of 16 attacks will probably still result in 4 getting through, however, theyre more likely to be spread apart.