Pirates_Rule

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In the lobby of the watchtower in Grandville is a statue of each of Lord Recluse's lieutenants. At the base of this statue is a plaque that, when you click on, brings up a text box with tabs. The tabs are for the Archetype, and it goes into detail about the powers (including the hard numbers) that that Patron will give that Archetype. (Thus you can easily look at all the patron powers for your AT, and even those not for your AT).

You are given a mission to visit each of these plaques before you choose your patron.

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Will we see anything similar for the rest of the powers in the game, or is this just for these pools since they're permanent choices?

Very well said.

Though I think most of your advice applies to all ATs, and not just dominators. Without a doubt, being a more active and versatile member of your team is the best thing you can do to help it.

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So no matter if we pre-i2 heroes actually did the work to earn the badge, whether we defeated 2000 containinted, you could care less,. So what you are saying to me is "Screw fairness, you missed it, tough [censored]! I have it and you will never get it, if you dont like it then quit"

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Not at all. I don't have isolator on any of my toons. With the exception of the jetpack, I've never made an effort to get all the event badges on all my toons. Just a matter of who I log in really. I don't have the patience to log in and out more than 1 or 2 times.

I also think quitting over this would be completely irrational, and even if you don't like it, I don't think that's a good reason to quit.

But I don't think fairness has anything to do with what you want. What do you propose to give to the people who did make the obvious sacrifice and restart? Another badge can't be the answer, or we'd have the cyclical problem that started this. Unique content, near same problem. Nothing? Well that's not an acceptable answer to you, I don't see why it should be to them.

It's like in school, when a professor makes a deadline. Part of the class shows up with the work done, and another part shows up and says "no fair, I have extenuating circumstances." So if the professor makes an exception, and everyone who had their work done is now a sucker, cause they could have waited too. To me, that's what the fairness aspect comes down to here. You think its unfair cause you don't have what you want. But the people who did get it would have their sacrifice trivialized.

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Thats nice, hey thanks, glad to know your point of view and why we pre-i2 heroes shouldn't have it at all, because everyone who does have Isolator has something that we can't get, so I guess that makes it unique.

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Many people want more uniqueness for their characters, I know I do.

BTW, I have many pre-I2 heroes.

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And as Burnin said earlier, no other badge has been introduced to this game that could not be obtained by any hero that already exists.

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And as such, it's a unique badge that only a subset of the population will ever be able to obtain. Just like every event badge. I think that makes these badges way better than any of the other badges in existence.

I'd personally like to see more unique badges put in place, so that there are more badges that are only available to a subset of the population, no matter when you started your character.

-Souvenirs could have badges attached, since you can't view someone's souvenirs now anyway (at least, not the last time I checked).
-Each contact should give a X's Pal/Buddy/Friend/etc. for having that contact's bar all the way filled (or maybe at the second line).
-Unique badge combinations should yield/take away other badges (like say damage taken badges + no debt badges -> lucky badges).

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So whether it convinces you

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But of course, I think we already determined that we disagree about this way back in the first couple pages.

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Completely different scenario here, we are talking about a possible customer looking to commit theft, rather then us asking for a badge we deserve.

Did this customer deserve the pliers? Sure, but does he deserve them for the lower price because he found them in a 99 cent bin? No, why because he may have said they were there to try and get away with a 99 cent deal or some kid placed them there by mistake, as long as the price was on the pliers then the customer was wrong.

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Correct, and I agree (as did the manager apparently). And incidentally, I don't believe that there was a price tag on the pliers, they had to find where the pliers actually belonged to price it.

But guess what he was yelling at the manager?

That's why citing the claim that the customer is always right usually at best stagnates your argument. If there's a good reason to get what it is that you want, it should be something past because you're right.

And I think that totally applies here. There are a lot of customers, whose positions you disagree with (and I understand your position, I just disagree completely), but who feel that this change would be wrong. And their "customer is always right" factor (for lack of a better term) is just as important as yours, so it's totally inapplicable to this issue.

The same really goes for the fairness argument, IMO. Which of course is why I think that it not mattering is really the most compelling argument, but overall falls short of the mark of convincing me.

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Contrary to popular belief, the customer is not always right. Using "what the customer wants is what the customer gets" as the way to run a business is a very shortsighted way to do so.


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Well I'm sorry to inform you that you are wrong here. In a business world, the customer is alwaysright whether you personally feel they are or not. By making the customer happy will ensure that this customer will return to your business and spend more money.

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Cherrypicking, I admit, but, if this is the case, how is microsoft still in business? How are nearly any large businesses in business?

Customer (singular) is usually wrong.

Customers (plural) might be right

How about the time I went to Home Depot, and some guy was complaining that he found some pair of pliers on a rack that simply said 99 cents. The manager looked up the actual price, and they were 20 dollars. The customer demanded that he be given it for 99 cents, and the manager, not being an idiot, flat out refused.

Do you really believe the manager made a bad decision?

Customers who think that "the customer is always right" are just trying to sidestep all logic that goes against what they want.

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And again, I, (nor do I believe anyone else was) was not arguing that it couldn't be trivial, but no matter how trivial it is, it's still going to be taking away from things that DO matter, and that is what this point is meant to address. You are turning it into an argument that it is not, that it would be difficult. Straw man.

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And again, this was all covered in the part of my post that you conveniently deleted. Here, let me hold your hand as I walk you through it. Ready? Here we go:

A new mission will be created for Pocket D. This was done very recently, and it will be done again. The devs have already said that there will be more temporary missions coming out of Pocket D in the future. So are you with me still? This new content from Pocket D will happen one way or the other. You got that? Now when a new mission is created, it needs to be populated by villains for us to fight. So at some point in the future the new Pocket D mission will need to have villains added to it when it is created. Am I going too fast here? Now, how are these villains added to a mission? Someone sits at a computer and creates a spawn point on the mission map. They give that spawn point certain characteristics like villain type, level, and number of villains spawned.
OK, not here’s where it gets reeeeally complicated… see if you can keep up… OK, you ready? Here it is: It does not take ANY MORE EFFORT to make the villain mob “contaminated” than it does to make them “Nemesis” or “Arachnos” or any other villain type in the game! (Whew! That sure was a long sentence! Sorry about that!)

So to sum up:
New content will be added one way or the other.
Villains will be part of that new content.
Those villains could be contaminated.

Do you get it now?

(Of course you get it. You got it before. But you clearly just refuse to acknowledge that your objection was answered. You will surely come up with some other bizarre way to twist my words around so you can keep arguing. Or, more likely, you will just delete my above words and pretend they don’t exist, like you did earlier today with my longer post.)

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I certainly don't want to be accused of deleting any of your precious post, as that would totally invalidate any point I had, right?

But as pointed out by Mna Grok (sorry if I misspell that, going off memory), level 1 contaminated (the only contaminated that exist) do not scale.

If they didn't add in new powers, and new balancing for the higher level contaminated, then it wouldn't be a real fight.

So, in order to add in higher level contaminated, they do need to design a lot more content.

Or they could just put in level 1s, and have unbalanced gameplay.

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When did I defend his use of personal attacks? Oh, that's right, I didn't, I merely stated that his points were not invalidated by them.

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Which is defending his use of personal attacks. The “points” you admire so much are almost nothing but crude ad hominems or lame justifications of crude ad hominims. So when you say his points are “not invalidated,” you’re supporting his use of ad hominims.

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No, that's not how it works at all. There's two seperate parts to his post. The parts which you consider to be ad hominem, and the point he is making. *YOU* have a complete inability to seperate an ad hominem attack from the point that's being made, and I find that really sad.

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And please, spell it out, what's it say about me?

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It means that you are very comfortable placing yourself in the same camp as him. And it says that you could really use a good course in rhetoric.

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Yeah, I thought it was pretty obvious from the start that I'm in his camp of people who don't think heroes that have exited outbreak deserve a chance at isolator. You're in the same camp with some people who have degenerated into some pretty poor form themselves, and yet I do not judge you for agreeing with them.

I find it humorous that you think that I need a course in rhetoric. You can't tell what arguments are applicable to what side. You can't see that your own arguments apply equally well against you. And what's further, is you seem to think that harping on ad hominem attacks at all is somehow scoring you points, when that only serves to make you look petty (which is the main reason I bothered responding to your holier-than-thou style posts). Or you come up with some crazy specific scheme like the one at the top of this post, which totally and conveniently ignores about 100 relevant facts.

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And it means that I’m also done responding to you. You’ve made it abundantly clear that you only read what you want to read, and you think that crass insults are perfectly fine in a discussion between adults.

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I never said I think they're fine, which is why I make an effort not to use them. However, if you can't get past them, I'm not sure that you're an adult to begin with.

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So. You want the last word? Knock yourself out. My points have been made, many times over.

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And refuted twice as many times.

Have fun taking a ride on your high horse!

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Um, no, your response is another straw man example. I already answered this (in the part that you cut out). My answer was that the effort would be trivial. Remember the fighting monkeys? Of course you do. You just don’t want to acknowledge the point.

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And again, I, (nor do I believe anyone else was) was not arguing that it couldn't be trivial, but no matter how trivial it is, it's still going to be taking away from things that DO matter, and that is what this point is meant to address. You are turning it into an argument that it is not, that it would be difficult. Straw man.

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(3) IT DOESN’T MATTER
“So what if your character doesn’t have this badge? It doesn’t do anything. Get over it.”

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Again, if something doesn't matter, when does it not matter enough that the devs are justified in saying no?

If you respond to any of this post, answer this question. It's the crux of the issue, to me.

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Straw man again. I already answered this (in the part that you cut out). And you also seem to be confused about what *I* am saying. I have never said “it doesn’t matter so give it to us.” Never, never, never once. Go back and re-read what I actually posted please.

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Yet, in the grand scheme of things, most (maybe not you, but you were talking about all the arguments being presented) people who want this realize that this doesn't really matter, go read most of the rest of the thread if you think that I'm straw manning, I didn't bring up the argument, until it was brought up in favor of the change. Since this is the only argument I feel has any merit, what *I* want to know, is what I have been asking, which is when does it not matter enough to be justified in saying no to?

It *IS* objectively unimportant though (since you didn't read my previous point on the matter I guess).

The importance of a matter directly correlates to 2 things. One, whether the matter is affecting the contractual obligations of the EULA (which essentially means, access to the servers). The second (which is the only one really applicable here), is how many people care about it.

In the whole playerbase, theres a couple hundred, maybe a couple thousand that would like to have the badge. But there's things they care more about. There are other issues that are orders of magnitude more imporant than this. The devs only have so much time in the day, and no matter how trivial a change is, it must be planned, analyzed, tested, and documented. Quite simply, of all the things that the devs could spend their time on, it does not in any significant way matter.

This logic applies to a great deal of other issues this game has, not just this one, but it's still quite objective. Costume clipping issues, texturing issues, misspellings, etc, are all equally as unimportant as having isolator on your toon.

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I didn’t gloss over it. I already answered this (yet again, in the part that you cut out).

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You "answered" it, but that doesn't mean you're right about it being silly. Just because *YOU* don't think it's a valid concern, doesn't mean it isn't. Just like getting isolator on pre-I2 characters.

Retconning is not something most people like, and to do it for something as menial as this is more "silly" than the point itself, which I do not believe is silly.

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This was also answered in the part you cut out. It was included for purposes of completeness. Go back and read my post closely please. You’ll see it.

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I read the rest of your post, I read all the parts I cut out, I cut them out cause it wasn't necessary to double my post length by including your entire post when anyone who wants is perfectly capable of going and reading it for themselves, through the magic of the internet.

As far as purposes of completeness, you have brought up the issue more than anyone else has, so it's mostly your point.

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FYI, I am ignoring Tremere now. His personal attacks show him to be an individual of little to no consequence who has nothing constructive to add to the discussion. That you would defend his use of personal attacks as valid rhetoric says a lot about you too.

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Oh no, I'm hurt. Really.

Wait a tic. When did I defend his use of personal attacks? Oh, that's right, I didn't, I merely stated that his points were not invalidated by them.

And please, spell it out, what's it say about me? That I can look past his insults and see that he's making a lot more sense than you?

What's that about ad hominem? I think you should stop worrying about ad hominem, and straw man, and look up double standard and hypocrite.

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If this is the best argument you’ve seen, then you haven’t been paying attention. “It doesn’t really matter” is actually such a lame position that holding it up and talking about it borders on the use of a straw man argument.

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I've seen all the other arguments, I just think they're totally unconvincing. It's the only argument presented that I feel has any weight whatsoever.

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(1) CUSTOMER SERVICE

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There are a lot more customers that would prefer to see ED or I5 done away with, or any of 1000 other changes that have been made to the game. But I'm glad the devs don't change things just because players ask, because most suggestions (including this one) are pointless and/or bad for the game.

Beyond that, it's quite clear that there's a significant number of people that don't want to see this, and so your customer service point works in their favor just as well.

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(2) FAIRNESS

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Life is not fair, nor is anything in it, I don't find this to be a convinving reason. We're not even talking about two different powersets here, where one might be performing better than the other, this is just a badge (which, does not matter), that you want and you can't get. Fairness is completely irrelevant.

And again, it's just as unfair to those who did restart their toons to make a special exception for you to get the badge just because you didn't restart your toon like others did. It just doesn't seem fair to you. Afterall, if so many others figured out that that was the only way to get isolator, and managed to do it in time to get the other event badges, why should they lose out on their uniqueness, because you don't think its fair?


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(1) TOO DIFFICULT TO IMPLEMENT

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The argument is NOT that it would be too difficult to implement, it's that the devs could be working on more important things with their time. This would be an example of one of your straw men.

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(3) IT DOESN’T MATTER
“So what if your character doesn’t have this badge? It doesn’t do anything. Get over it.”

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Again, if something doesn't matter, when does it not matter enough that the devs are justified in saying no?

If you respond to any of this post, answer this question. It's the crux of the issue, to me.

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(5) THE BADGE TEXT WOULD BE MESSED UP
“It says you began your career on a high note. If you get Isolator at lvl 50, it’s not the beginning of your career now, is it?”

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You're glossing over this because you don't want to admit its a completely valid point. Everyone who earned isolator the correct way completed the task as it's stated on the badge, and now you want to change it, just so it can fit your needs.

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(7) PERSONAL ATTACKS
“You’re all just a bunch of whiners who want to show off your uber l337 status.” Or “You don’t have it - HA HA get over it!”

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By harping on this, you only make your position look that much lless fortified. If you don't like what someone says to you, ignore it. Going off on them for using what you consider to be personal attacks (although they are generally on topic WRT this thread), just makes you look bad. Respond to an argument if they have one, but trying to tell them how you disapprove of the method in which they argue just makes you look silly.

I have still not seen any argument more convincing than it doesn't matter. You may think that you have made quality arguments to the contrary, but in effect, most of those arguments apply to the people opposed to the change as well.

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This WHOLE thread is nothing but a bunch of whiners who have thier precious badge count posted in their Signature as some sort of "oh look how uber I am".

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So you think that this is reasonable? You think it adds to the discussion? You think this is a valid argument?

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It's not really said in a particularly friendly manner, but it isn't entirely irrelevant.

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Oh, I agree that it's relevant. It shows off the rhetorical and reasoning skills of Tremere and clues everybody in on what sort of quality postings we can expect from him in the future. Looking back on the last few pages, he did not disappoint.

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Uhh, I know it's fun to think that everyone agrees with you(I do it too), but I have to say Tremere has to this point made many more convincing points than you have, IMO.

The best argument I've seen for doing this is that it doesn't really matter. I still haven't seen any compelling evidence that it matters enough that it should be implemented despite the fact that it doesn't really matter. I mean, it seems like that argument already precludes it from being worth any dev effort. I'd like to think they're spending their time doing something that does matter enough to do it.

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This WHOLE thread is nothing but a bunch of whiners who have thier precious badge count posted in their Signature as some sort of "oh look how uber I am".

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So you think that this is reasonable? You think it adds to the discussion? You think this is a valid argument?

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It's not really said in a particularly friendly manner, but it isn't entirely irrelevant.

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Look, can someone just call someone else a Nazi on this thread and let it die? You've all stated your arguments and have drawn the skirmish lines that neither side is going to cross. No-one is going to convince LiquidX that the principle of being able to get badges you missed is a good thing, just like no-one is going to convince Zubeen... Zubenelgenaki... Zebalski... that guy that he shouldn't be able to get Isolator because he missed it the first time.

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Stop telling us what to do, you forum nazi!

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I just wanted to see if the Devs would say about this, and last time I checked its the one of my few options.

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Can I put this into perspective for you?

You make a request.

People respond to said request.

A dev comes and gives a response.

People ask why anyone would have a problem with this.

Others give answers.

You choose to get angry with them because they expressed their opinion when it was asked for.

Then you continue in an argument which you pretty much started, by responding angrily about someone elses opinion (remember how much fun you had sharing yours??).

Then when those people defend themselves by throwing your offensive arguments back at you, you start hyperbolizing peoples opinions into player dictated development schedules.

So your thread got a dev response (which is pretty rare), and then your thread started a fairly reasonable discussion, and somehow you have the nerve to try and pretend you have been wronged?

At a minimum, you're doing just as bad as Liquid, although I can't honestly say I think he's done anything that offensive.

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What you ask? Easy Costume parts, to me this means nothing, I could care less about costume parts, yeah to many it makes their hero unique or special, well the same goes for the badges to the many who collect them, its just as important to us as costumes are to others.

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You have one badge you can't get. You're complaining about one minor issue in a large system. Not asking for the system to be expanded (new content), just that it be altered.

A new costume piece is bigger than that. To make as menial a request about costumes as this is about badges, you'd need to be asking to fix a minor clipping issue, such as the pirate hook impaling the hero when in an idle stance. That's asking for one fix to an existing piece of content that already is working as intended.

It's really not important, it really doesn't matter, and it's really not worth the effort. At what point can not worth it become a valid reason for saying no?

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I've seen more posts about costume parts that people missed and can't get now then I see about Isolator, but not once have I dropped in there to say "ABSOLUTELY NOT!" , "You missed it so move on" why because if that is want the community feels they want

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But Liquid, myself, and others have given plenty of reasons beyond "no" and "too bad". Liquid may enjoy voicing his opinion more than others, but that doesn't mean he is being contrary just to be contrary, and it doesn't make him not part of the same community.

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then the choice is up to the dev team whether they want to give it to them, I never said forget about this crap, its not important, I held my tongue and worried about what I enjoyed about the game.

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The choice is always up to the dev team. I don't think anyone questions that. However, if someone makes a suggestion, and when the dev reads the post, there's already been a complete (or near complete) disscussion about the pros and cons of the idea, then they don't have to spend as much time looking for the problems/benefits of a suggestion themselves. Additionally, having more people than just themselves to flesh out an idea probably allows them to consider things they may have inadvertanly missed otherwise.

But in the end it is up to the devs what they spend their time on. They know that, and someone expressing a negative opinion doesn't bar them from being able to make their choice. Voicing an opinion (be it positive or negative) can only at worst make them waste the 30 seconds they spent reading it, while at best, help them do their jobs.

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Serious. Liquid if it truely was that unimportant then why cant we go back and get it?

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Because it's not important enough?

The irony in the argument that is so often made, is that you're arguing that it's not important, and therefore it doesn't matter if you have it, so because it doesn't matter, and it's not important, they should do it.

If it's worth doing, then it should be important. If it's not important, and it doesn't matter, then why is it worth doing?

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Badge System?

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My personal concept of what a badge is supposed to mean.

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is that fair to me or anyone else that did the same thing?

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No, but if the trial is implemented, you'll have a way to get the badge. And when you tell people you earned it the real way, you won't be telling any fibs. Does it suck that you have to do something ultra hard to get it? I guess. There's always personal satisfaction.

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Its a badge to add to your collection.

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To you, they are pokemon. To me, it seems like they're actually supposed to mean something.

JMO

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Yet there's some incredible bias against allowing people to subsequently pick up Isolator without any real reason put forth. Just curious and scratching my head.

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I don't know about other people, but I dislike it because it goes against the entire concept of the badge system. I don't care much about badges myself (I tried once to get them on my main, but it turned out I didn't care enough). However, whenever someone has a badge, it's a claim that they accomplished task X. If someone didn't achieve the task (in this case, having the interest to arrest 100 contaminated before leaving for Atlas or Galaxy), they don't deserve the badge. Badges aren't supposed to be difficult to get, they're supposed to be a marking of what you did and did not do. If you didn't arrest 100 contaminated, you don't deserve Isolator.

It's not about the intrinsic value of the badge, it's about the cheapening of what the badge means. Not knowing nor it not being available at the time of your first character's creation (a group to which several of my characters belong, before anyone says anything) about it is no reason to cheapen what the badge means.

However, if someone is going to cheapen what the badge means, they should have to accomplish something difficult, and not being able to prove it actually sortof preserves the effect of the badge. You can say anything you like, but no one will know that you didn't just get the badge in outbreak, unless they witnessed otherwise. I like the solution myself.

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Contaminated spawns as an Hamidon at the end of the mission?

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Fixed that for you.

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Cuppa's been trying, but she has yet to be able to convince the devs to throw us a bone.

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IF we were to ever add a way to get Isolator post-Tutorial, it would most likely be incredibly hard to get. Annoyingly hard. Irritatingly hard. There-would-be-a-zillion-people-asking-to-make-it-easier hard.

But IF we were to add it, it would be available nonetheless.

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Hahahahaha.

It'll be the only badge you can't prove you did anything special for.

Hahahahaha.

Brilliant!

edit: proper sentences and stuff.

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100% to 0% Period. If you have 99.999999% hitpoints you can still die by one attack.

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That's not quite what _Castle_ said. The intended code kicks in only if the amount of damage matches/exceeds your maximum hit points.

For example, your max is 1000 and you currently have 900. If an attack for 901 lands, you die. If an attack for 1000 lands, you're at 1%.

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Wouldn't that mean that if you had an attack that could do 1050, and an attack that could do 950 (just for examples), that if your enemy was anywhere below 950, that the lower damage attack could be a killing blow, but that the higher damage attack could not?

I hope I misunderstood, because that doesn't seem quite right to me...

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Let's try it this way.

If someone hits you with an attack (or very fast volley of attacks if teamed) that would take you from 100% of your HP to 0 HP (or less), and you have even one single unhealed HP of damage from any other source when it happens - you're dead.

You must have every single one of your HPs present and accounted for in the green bar for this protection to kick in.

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That's what I originally thought it was, but the post I quoted seemed to indicate something different. Though the post it quoted agrees with what I thought and what you seem to be saying.

Too many quotes for me to keep track of now I think.

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100% to 0% Period. If you have 99.999999% hitpoints you can still die by one attack.

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That's not quite what _Castle_ said. The intended code kicks in only if the amount of damage matches/exceeds your maximum hit points.

For example, your max is 1000 and you currently have 900. If an attack for 901 lands, you die. If an attack for 1000 lands, you're at 1%.

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Wouldn't that mean that if you had an attack that could do 1050, and an attack that could do 950 (just for examples), that if your enemy was anywhere below 950, that the lower damage attack could be a killing blow, but that the higher damage attack could not?

I hope I misunderstood, because that doesn't seem quite right to me...

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Maybe Defiance needs a big Defiance XXX orangy to float up so we can see it in action along with an extra line in the battle spam stating how much extra damage we are doing cause we are being Defiant.

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Every archetype deserves one of those, IMO. There's nothing better than being able to show everyone else how cool you are with some floating text.

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So when your running the razors edge and in the red, how do you handle the critters when you pull the aggro (and you will sooner or later) of a boss or LT (or minions if you drop a big AoE on them)off the tank or scrapper? By the time you see them turn and pull out their gun its already too late, their attack is qued and resolved your just waiting for the animation to finish.

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I tend to focus on single targets in groups, as I only have one AoE attack (energy/energy). Since I focus on one target at a time, it rarely happens that I bite off more than I can chew, unless I decide to go into the melee battle, in which case I probably wasn't to concerned with surviving to begin with.

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Dev: Miri, whats your opinion on Defiance?
Me: It sucks, dump it.

Dev: Miri, can we get some feedback on Defiance please?
Me: It sucks, heres why. Blah blah blah. Perhaps change it to do bleh bleh bleh.

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Both of those look like your opinion. I'd just expect the devs (or anyone else reading it for that matter), to pay more attention to the second form, since it's supported with some kind of reasoning, as well as a suggestion.

I just don't think it's fair to say that they're not interested in our opinions, when it seems to me that they elicit them at every available opportunity.

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I find it hard to believe your level 37 regen scrapper who doesn't have access to his level 38 Moment of Glory is better off defense wise then your level 50 Super Reflexs Scrapper with access to Elude. If that is the case then perhaps their Regen tweaks are not complete yet?

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Maybe not. I dunno.

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Feedback is not an asked for opinion, feedback is asked for player made data.. or facts.

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Feedback is anything you decide to tell them.

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Soloing 3 (lets say your good enough to run on invincible) red con minions is vastly different then trying to handle the aggro from 5.. 6.. maybe even more yellow+ con critters in a mid to large team spawn. Every defender except a Force Field and Trick Arrow has some kind of heal other power. Short of being suicidal and doing what Statesman said ('Want to build up defiance? Maybe run in and get some aggro before the tank does. Or perhaps tell the defenders NOT to heal you.') Every one of those defenders is going to do their damdest to keep you out of the yellow or red.

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I tend to run unyielding actually, so groups of 5 yellow/orange. And sonics don't have heals either. But that's not the point. If the defender wants to keep me out of the red, that's their perogative. The point is that the inherent ability can be used strategically, and very effectively.

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I quote Cuppa,
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Good, constructive feedback from testing the changes. Including any testing data you have gathered. Do not respond to other posters - let your post stand on its own.


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No where in there is it asking for an opinion. In fact they don't want it hence the request to not respond to another poster, our post has to have the strength to stand on its own. They are asking the million other monkeys to write Hamlet because they only have 25 chimpanzees who are making the quills. They are asking us to find the problems and point them out. They will then make their own fixes.

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So they're asking you to test the changes, and tell them what you think. Feedback can be data, it can also be an opinion. However, opinions that are based on data (as opposed to anecdotal experiences) have more weight when the data is shared. The reason they want your opinion to stand on its own, and not just respond to other posters is because they were trying to limit the number of responses per poster, and prevent arguments. They had other threads for discussion purposes, which is where inter-poster discussions were supposed to stay.

So it didn't work out as well as hoped. But the point is they went through the effort to organize a place where everyone could leave feedback for them. If you really think that asking for feedback is completely different from asking for an opinion, then I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

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So you had absolutly no problem with the fact that Statesman said 'No more major power changes'. And then they went and implimented ED. That may not be a major power change, but it is a fundemtal change to how the powers act.

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I take everything the devs say at face value. So no, I wasn't upset. I can see how many would feel it was misleading, but I also remember when Statesman not only explained why he made the error, but then also apologized. Since he's just a person, I can't really expect him never to make mistakes. Beyond that, since he has clearly learned from said mistakes (hence the apology here), I hold no ill will towards him for it.

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So you had no problem when Statesman stated that 'We are going to be making some minor tweaks to regen' and they have been making changes in the set in almost every issue since?

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My regen is still my most powerful scrapper defensively (50 BS/SR, 31 BS/SR, 37 kat/reg), and is without a doubt in my mind still better off than any of my other scrappers. So since after the continued changes the set is still really powerful relative to the other sets, I can't say I have a problem with it at all.

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How many of those changes have directly affected you besides ED? You have one hero listed and he is a BS/SR scrapper, how many times have you felt the sting of the nerf bat?

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Well, my /SR used to run perma-elude.

My Ice/Mace (48 now) used to be a stellar herder. One time I herded so many of Bobcat's minions that my computer couldn't render them all.

Not to mention the issue 5 defense reductions.

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Defiance. The only compliments I've heard about it have been from low level characters. It's as if they didn't bother to test it with higher level blasters who simply can NOT take the risk of running in the yellow or red to get the boost. They even had to come back after the fact and change the point in which bonuses accrue because it wasn't being used, after we the forum community raised holy hell about it.

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You mean they listened to the feedback and changed the power based on said feedback? Jerks!

My blaster (at level 42) uses defiance very effectively roughly every third spawn when soloing. It's not my fault if the majority of the blaster community can't stop complaining long enough to try to use it strategically. Or maybe I'm just really good. But I tend to think the former is more likely.

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Please point out to me an incident where they 'Asked our opinion' about a matter.

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Just one incident? Developer Response Threads