Pilotball

Yeah no hasten here, lol... my goal was to make an Ice tank and take it to 50 without hasten. Almost not worth it now

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Though you PM'd me for this, I figured it couldn't hurt to post this here (a bit more laid out):

Frozen Armor:
17% DEF Smash/Lethal (down from 25%)
30% RES Cold (same)
12.5% RES Fire (up from 10%)
can no longer enhance for RES

Glacial Armor:
17% DEF Energy/Negative (down from 25%)
30% RES Cold (same)
can no longer enhance for RES

Wet Ice:
1.1% DEF Smash/Lethal/Energy/Negative/Fire/Cold (down from 12.5% E/N, 9% S/L/F/C)
30% RES Cold
can't enhance for RES or DEF
RES vs Sleep, Hold, Disorient, Slow, Immobilze, and Knockback

Permafrost:
20% RES Cold (same)
12.5% RES Fire (up from 10%)
Slow Resistance

Energy Absorption:
0.5% DEF per mob (down from 18.75%)
14 mob maximum (up from 5)
Drains End
Recovers End

Hoarfrost: (unchanged)
20% Toxic

Chilling Embrace:
now additionally provides 7% Damage Debuff
otherwise unchanged

Icicles:
unchanged

Hibernate:
Health Recovery (unchanged)
added End Recovery
Lowered EPS
Removed secondary activation
1.5s Activation
30s Duration (28.5s with subtracing 1.5s activation, timer counts from click)
120s Recharge (doubled)

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Just a few quick questions, when you say 7% or 17% is that base? or max with ++ enhancements?

Your the master of EA C, how would you suggest slotting it now? Mind you I'm not a herder and usally have a max team size around 5, so I won't be getting the 14 minions most of the time.

Thanks for your help, I'm going to try and make this work... wish me luck.

Wow, it just goes from bad to worse. I will reiterate many concerns that I have that others have already posted but must be addressed.
On Sunday I spent an hour or so testing the new changes with my level 40 Ice/Ice tanker on Test.

Hibernate –
1. for a level 32 power there isn't a worse Tanker power, some would say that Rise of the Phoenix is worse, but one very important thing to consider is that RoP actually gets you back into the fight (tanking), it does not take you out of the fight.
2. So now its not going to drop all of our toggles, or some of them, but how about allowing us to turn toggles back on or changing them, I sometimes turn off Ice Armour by mistake when trying to conserve end while in Hibernate mode, try coming out of it without IA on, your dead.
3. Ice Tankers are much like blasters full health to zero in zero seconds, making this power situational at best. As an aside, I have gone down many times (live) trying to tank in hot water to save my team mates and this power is never an option, we are suppose to shield our team mates and this power shields me and no one else, I would rather die than use it to save myself at the expense of a team-mate.

Energy Absorption - I don't get this change at all.
1. So many have said it, your encouraging herding with this power to max its defence, which is why your changing the defences in the game… ahhhh… what am I missing here?
2. Your assumption is that everyone uses it at all times and that our defence numbers are based on it going off at max defence (6 slots) and as often as possible ( I don't have hasten and I’m damn proud of it, nor do I have it 6 slotted with defence buffs), this power should not be a staple for everyone or what your basing our set on, it should be situational and be an option. It should be there for when you need it, your surrounded by 10 bad guys and you let it off for that extra amount of defence that will get you and your team mates through the fight. The problem with that is, our other armours now do not offer enough of a base for the crappy def buff that EA offers now to make any difference.
3. The Ice set should not be dependent upon one power. That’s what your making here. Make the changes to it, make it only suck end, but make up for the defence somewhere else, don’t take it all away, that’s what we are, a set that is based on DEFENCE!!!!!!! If you take it all away, we are a set based on what???? Cold damage resistance, come on, throw us a frickin bone here.

Test numbers

I based my testing on Live vs Test, even level mobs of Nemesis on the docks in PI. I did not use Ice slick. Groups of level 40 minions, Lts and Bosses. I didn’t change my build, and I only used EA on Live when necessary (health started dropping at a huge rate). I used it on every mob on the test server. On live, I never died rarely dropped beneath 75% health and slowly (should have bolded that) killed all groups. On test, even minions where fine, I took hits at what felt like a normal rate, except I noticed I took a lot of damage from the exploding robots, I seemed to get hit 75% of the time when they blew up, but I still survived with about 50-75% of my health per group.
Bosses on the other hand handed my cold a$$ to me, they hit harder (269 hit points on live vs 317 on test), I am not a number cruncher, I have no idea why they hit harder. They also hit A LOT more often, on live I could eventually take them down, on Test, I always had to run, usually within the first 20-30 seconds of the fight. Yeah!!! This was fun, thank god I wasn’t on a team.. oh wait.. as an ICE tanker, I MUST TEAM WITH A BUBBLER, sorry I FORGOT, stupid me. Geesh!

I could kill guys, not bosses mind you, but LTS and minions would go down, but I would not be able to tank effectively. I felt like a very very slow scrapper.

Aggro Kings

I run CE & Icicles at all times, my Icicles currently has a taunt enhancer, because I like to keep the bad guys focus on me and away from my team mates, guess what’s gotta go with I5. Whenever I currently team and we take on an AV, guess who gets all the attention, even over my Invuln tank buddy who constantly throws much harder hits and spams the taunts. I always have all of the aggro of the AV’s. I will never ever be able to do this with the minuscule defence offered with I5.


Lower Levels

Now that Wet Ice offers no defence bonus, what do Ice tanks do? To tell the truth, I don’t care really, I wouldn’t start another one for Statesman’s life. It was hard enough as it was let alone with no defence other than Ice Armour, its laughable. BUT the set is not going to be gimped… lol.. ok. Play it, PLEASE, play it and tell us its not broken, I dare you!

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We are continuing to look at the set. Being one of the new sets in the game, it is going to be scrutinized beyond just the Training Room server.

If the set continues to prove itself sub-par on the Live servers, then some adjustments will be made.

This was one of the hardest sets to define. It falls out of line with the "normal" Defender sets. It isn't a buff set, its a debuff set. Its really a different playstyle than Defenders have had before.

For those who complain that the Archetypes who have the fewest sets were overlooked... the next planned powersets are melee based.

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I'm sure it's been brought up before, but why exactly is this a defender set? Playing an arrow/arrow defender doesn't feel like playing a defender, you feel like a blaster. The trick arrow set, IMO is much better suited as a blaster secondary than a defender primary. Yes it's mostly debuffs, but the overall "feel" of the set is wrong for a defender. What is so defendery about trick arrows? Nothing.

On another note, from and RPG point of view, what exactly does an arrow blaster pair as a secondary that makes any sense? Nothing. Arrows and energy? Arrows and fire? If your character has those secondary abilities, why wouldn't he/she also have them as primaries? Devices is the only set that legitimately can work with any blaster primary. It makes no sense.

Defenders already have the most versatile mix of primary and secondary abilities, do they really need another? Blasters on the other hand have sets that are painfully repetitive.

I know it's probably too late in this stage of the game to do this kind of swap (making trick arrows a blaster secondary), but really, ask anyone who has tried playing an arrow/arrow defender and ask them, "do you feel like a defender, or a blaster?" The answer should be all you need to know.

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HEAR HEAR!!!!! Completely agree, the only AT that should be able to be Archery/Archery is the blaster... but no.. a blaster has too be what Archery/Devices????? WHY oh why is this soooo?????? Please make a seondary for the blaster AT with Arrows as a secondary.

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Wanted to explain the reasons for changing Burn...

It became apparent that Burn was the trump power...with it, a Tanker needed to do nothing else. He could lay down a Burn patch and Taunt foes in and out of it. The damage was so great that the Burn patch itself would do the defeating; the Tanker only needed to hit Taunt.

The question has come up - "what's the point of Burn now?" Well, it still offers Immobilization defense (we're actually going to increase that duration). And Burn does do a lot of damage. Taunt alone might not bring mobs into Burn continually, but stunning, holding, immobilizing mobs in Burn is just plain devastating.

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Read : Make a FIRE /ICE Tanker

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- We are 1-3 shotted by AVs (Something you are not going to fix by reducing AV's damage, you are just increasing the gap between Ice and other tankers by doing that)

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Great point!

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That, at least, is a positive step (though of course with Resist Elements at 7.5% right now, I'm unconvinced that this actually makes Permafrost a good power).

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Yes, I agree I still wouldn't take it. Toxic isn't much use above 40, unless you venture into the sewers.

Wow, is this thread depressing or what?

I appreciate that Statesman speaks from the cuff without an editor, it truly makes one feel that what we say matters. And I know that he has apologized for stating these are bonuses for the Ice Tank, but it really does show the mentality that is put forth for the Ice Tanker, nobody plays them so it's easier just to make generic changes and say that they benefit the Ice Tanker so we will quit crying.
Again, like so many have said, these changes are for everyone so everyone still has the same bases, so we are Exactly in the same spot as we were before. Mind you the bad guys now have a less chance of hitting everyone.
These changes make life for the AT's that are defence based slight easier... but it makes everyone else’s life easier as well.
These are not for the benefit Ice Tankers.

We then get... "well that’s not all we are looking at" ... because we admit none of these changes are actually for the crappiest tank out there right now.... we just don't know what or if anything else we will change... which really means... hey they won't hit you as much for now... so... suck it up, we might change Permafrost so it doesn't completely blow, but it will be our gift too you, maybe, ah if we can squeeze it in for I5.

The numbers for Wet Ice.. wow... I didn't know that... Level 39 Ice Tanker here who has it 6 slotted... don't I look dumb . Guess I better use that free Respec before I5.

Finally EA, I love the End drain effects and it was too strong... but wow.. you smacked the crap outta that power with your nerf bat man... clear outta the park, just like you had.. hmmm.. superpowers (obviously not an ice tanker)... the worst part though.... is that too actually get some use for this power.... haha or to max out the defence a whole 17% we need 14 guys soooooo ... we need to HERD!!!!!!!! no 3 to 1 bad guy schema or so called vision... but we are being encouraged or even forced to actually HERD!!!!!

Wow, talk about inconsistencies here. This is very very odd. I'm lost, should I just give up on this toon or just give up on the game?

Thanks

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The costume contests all follow this format. Someone announces a costume contest under Atlas. People line up facing away from City Hall. Lots of talk goes on, a person announces that finalists will be invited to a team, people break up and leave.

"But how," you're probably asking, "do I win a contest?" Well, the #1 thing that you should know about these contests is that they're all fake. None of them are real. Your leg is being pulled. Your chain is being ganked. In all my time, I've never seen actual winners announced. Sometimes, out of about 20 people standing there, I've known 15 of the people there and they all say that they didn't win. The finalists are supposedly "chosen" and people start asking, "Is the contest over?" "Who won?" "Why are we all still standing here?"

Don't waste your time. When a costume contest is announced, just continue on your merry way, secure in the knowledge that you're not going to be made a fool of. Of course, if you're a paranoid twit, you might think I'm trying to get you away to win myself. Rest assured that such is not the case -- however, if you truly desire to waste your time, you won't find me standing in your way.

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In the last two weeks I have won 2 (over 1.5 mil) and been in the finals for 4 costume contests on Liberty server, with several different toons. Only one.. was a fake, and I knew prior to it starting the person was only running the contest because he/she had lost the last one. Some people are idiots.. but most contests are valid.

I am very disappointed that this secondary is not available for the blaster, it should be.
Having to choose Devices or fire makes no sense for the archery Powerset.
I am really starting to wonder about the developers for this game... I usually have their backs and want to support the decisions... but [censored] is going on at cryptic????
Its suppose to be an update... not Armeggedon.. to your game, pull your heads out of your.. a$$es and listen to the players, plugging your ears and saying this will be better for the game.. does not make your customers happier or necessarily make a better game.

Sorry a little of topic here.. so again, please make some changes so that it is available for blasters.

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Stamina- So in other words, he's gonna leave the base system BROKEN and force some AT Builds to give up 3 power selections for Stamina just to be able to WORK? I guess not even CRITICAL issues get the attentions they needed let alone Quality of Life issues...

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Ahem...

YOU DO NOT NEED STAMINA. The "requirement" of Stamina is simply in your head. The Necessity of Stamina has been greatly exagerated.

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Please remember this is YOUR opinion... please don't qualify it as a fact.

But I will quote Statesman :


Statesman - We expected Fitness to be a popular power in a popular power-pool, but the amount of builds that require it in order to function is more than we anticipated. We are looking into all solutions for Fitness and Endurance as a whole that won't dramatically alter the gameplay of most of our players.

Direct quote from : Stratics Interview for I5

Seems that the lead designer thinks that many builds require it to be "functional".

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He's getting rid of the Talos stores? Can he also get rid of training enchancement drops post level 20!?

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Great Idea!

Very Interesting, great post, good info.
Desperation for Blasters.. very interesting... I also am looking forward to the Bow and Arrows powers... after taking a blaster to 50... the rest of the game seems too easy now ... lol I agree hold off on skills till they are done right... if they are not fun.. I will not be doing them.
I don't understand the HATE of the stores... I think a better solution to the Enhancement problem would be to remove level 25 SO's and only offer them at level 35, certainly would make the game alot more interesting between 22-32. I like the stores.. because nobody is continually bumping into your toon... that is sooooo annoying.

Again, great post thanks for the short hand notes!

I've tried to read through this whole posting tonight.. wow.. great work on the number crunching.. (mind you some of it, is beyond my understanding). I have a few observations/questions that I would like to voice.

1. I played a (gimped) blaster to level 50 and jumped straight onto an Ice tank the day after he hit 50, I was so sick of dieing and just wanted to be able to take some damage. Why Ice.. it went with the idea of the toon and I had not ever seen one... ***** Here is my first point... I made it to level 50 with a blaster (read very very long trip) and I didn't see 1 Ice tank. I saw some /ice but not a single one Ice primary. So where's the problem? Are they Hundreds of Ice tanks out there that are secretly farming 100's of wolves that I missed... exploiting a terrible loophole that’s been around since day 1 with EA?????

2. A tank should NEVER be 1 shotted... AV or not... NEVER (I don't think they should even be 2 shotted). If it's possible Ice or not.. Its a programming error that should be fixed, and shouldn't have taken a year to be noticed. I have not hit the late level string of AV's yet... but if this tank is gonna be gimped against them... I'm done now... I played a blaster... I don't ever want to be 1 hit in my tank.

3. Power pools & tough - Ok... let me get this... my "TANK" has to take the power pool called "Tough" to be able to fight an AV?... Your kidding right.. where are the cameras... I'm on candid camera right? A tank taking "Tough" so that he/she isn't one shotted... lmao... <wipes tears> maybe Body armour should be one of our Epic choices... ... Seriously though, we are forced to take 2 power pools already.. 1 for a travel power and another for frickin stamina (don't get me started on this, your freaking levels 12-20 levels are taken up on every AT for every primary except one??? Don't you see a basic logic error here?????? ). So for an ICE tank to be viable... we now HAVE to have tough as well... so 3 of our 4 power pools have been chosen for us… that’s nice, talk about cookie cutter toons.. oh yeah.. another toggle power… yippee.. How many is that now???

4. PVP is irrelevant in this discussion.. let's face it.. nobody is going to be playing a ICE tank in PVP. PVP will come down to 3 things, cookie cutter builds, tactics and who has the fastest computer.

5. Lastly, I stole this link from another post.. but it sums up the "nerf" attitude perfectly. Nobody ever wants to be weaker, especially not an already "gimped" class like Ice. Read this link... its very well thought out.
http://www.memorableplaces.com/mudwimping.html

The most important thing that I don't get is WHY????? Why do this change? Was EA making Ice tanks uber ??? (shudder, I can't believe i used that word.. but the Admins seem to respond to that crap language best.) Where 100's of ICE Tanks running around ruining the game for everyone else... did EA make all the other tankers jealous? I was under the impression that we were and still are actually getting the short end of the tanker stick already.... WHY MAKE THIS CHANGE??? We had one power that worked... maybe better than you had envisioned but we still die, even more than the other tanks. The logic behind this change is mind boggleling to me.

To everyone posting here, Way to go guys! Your doing a great job and there are some great ideas in here.

Hey, blasters are gonna be looked at (nerfed) in issue 5.. lmao.. maybe we can look forward to actually tanking with issue 7 or maybe 8.

Last but not least, this is no longer "your" game, its ours now. We like it alot, please stop nerfing everything.