Pilcrow

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This is what we feared. As people in other topics mentioned, this actually is worse XP than going solo. So the player is penalized XP-wise for splitting from the team. In other words, if you split the team into two teams to complete two tasks, you're actually getting LESS XP than if you created two SEPARATE teams to do the same thing.

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And the problem is? If you're not working together on the same fights, why should you get xp for them?

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Agreed. The point of this is to prevent people from getting XP for battles they do not actually participate in. If a team splits up to do separate tasks why should everyone get the experience for both missions? Each player is only fighting one battle, so why should they get the xp for two?

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They shouldn't. But on the other hand, if they aren't helping, and aren't getting XP, why should the XP that I receive include them when determining how many teammates to divide the XP between? If part of your team isn't getting XP because of the distance limitation, that part of the team shouldn't count when dividing the XP among the members of the team that do get XP.

This situation happens legitimately all the time. Let's say your group is at the mission location, and you've just zoned and are on your way to them. You stop to defeat a mob. Under the current system, the XP is divided amongst all of the team, even though you did all of the work. Under the new system, the XP is still divided among the entire team, but now only you get the XP. That is silly. XP shouldn't just go disappearing into thin air.

Bottom line: if you're not giving someone XP, don't count them in the XP division calculation. The rest of this system sounds perfectly reasonable.

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If they let you get "solo XP" when you are on a team but working alone, they actually HELP PLers rather than hurt them. Read fireclad's analysis in the other thread for details, but basicially, if they gave you "solo" or "duo" XP for your efforts when teamed with more people, you could bring a bridge in and experience no XP penalty for the bridger. That would actually help bridge teams PL FASTER!

Basically, under this implementation, if you are not in a mission and your team splits you get PENALIZED for that. So, if you're going to street hunt, you should only make a team large enough for the streets you're hunting. Making a larger team and splitting it is penalized. That's their intent as making a street sweeping team and splitting it is the PLing technique they want to harm.

As I've said before, I don't think this implementation is perfect. BUT I thought you deserved to be told why it is working as intended in the situation you note above.

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Listen. You know the range of your own heals by heart. As long as you're in range of being able to heal, you're in range of getting xp. Just stay near the team like a good healer.

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The problem is that the time the MOB dies and the time you cast your buffs/heals are not the same. There's plenty of time between when you buff/heal and when the MOB drops for you to be more than 300' away from the MOB. If a damage dealer gets one shot in on a MOB and then gets more than 300' from it he still gets credit, but a buffer/debuffer/controller can do all those things in the combat and if he's more than 300' away when the MOB dies, he's SOL.

Like I said, this idea is much improved. But adding 0.01 damage to all debuffs and controls would be a pretty simple change that would help the support ATs a TON, without effecting people's roles in any real way.

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If you are close enough to hold the mob, you're within 300 feet and will get your XP share, why the need for 0.01 dmg?

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Because you might not STILL be in the 300' range when the MOB dies. Is 1/100th of a damage pip such a big concession to give to support ATs in light of this change? How could that possibly have any effect in a battle OTHER than making sure the support AT gets credit for MOBs he truly helped the team kill?

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OK, as I continue to follow this...

I like the suggestion that holds do 1 pt of damage. Or 0.01 pt. I don't care. As a scrapper and tank enthusiast, I like my targets still. The hold that stopped them is as valuable as my hit.

Make debuffs do 0.01 pt of damage per tick of time. See above.

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I like both these ideas.

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Figure out a way to add that 0.01 pt damage to any mob hit by a buffed teammate. That's the hard code...tell me, though, that there aren't a thousand guys waiting to get a crack at coding something like that and get paid for it.

If what controllers and defenders are designed to do does not reap rewards, then 1) I will not play those ATs and 2) they will lose their effectiveness.

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This is the hard one, how do you credit defenders for the buffs they hit teammates with? One possibility is letting defenders be further from the kill than other ATs to still get credit, or have the XP radiate both from the MOB and the PC who applied the finishing blow, or somehow track who gave that PC buffs and credit them too.

Perhaps the best solution is just to add an AE debuff (with 0.01 damage) to the small number of sets that don't have them now. Perhaps in the case of empathy it could be an anchor AE debuff you can plant on an ally that works like KIN transfusion. That way you still cast it like a buff. Cast it on a melee-er and you won't miss much XP.

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It's a step in the right direction. It's not perfect. He tested and changed it once. If warranted, he will again. Still not much of a fan of the 1 minute death timer myself, but glad to see States listening and responding.

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I just wanted to share a thought I had last night on this.

The 1 minute timer has two issues. #1) it's a bit harsh on legitimate players who die mid combat (especially support) and #2) it doesn't really prevent PLers from making more XP than the death cost them (especially in a herd/killed by undertaunted boss situation or in a dropped AE to get credit for all MOBs post death scenario).

Here's an alternative. I don't know technically how hard it would be, but...

After death you can earn "debt relief only XP" capped at 1/2 the debt cost of 1 death. This way you would never make a "profit" post death no matter how well you game the limitation; but most legit players will soak up every bit of XP they would have before these changes.

Just a thought.

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*...static filter...*

Which basically means that - as states has refused to address one of the major topics - split teaming WHEN STREET HUNTING - since it's allowed in missions - is against the rules.

*Shrugs.*

Makes no sense to me.

I hate missions, personally, I prefer street hunting, I've hit 50 and seen most of them and simply don't like them.

However let me ask this question: why is it okay to split team in a mission as opposed to split teaming while street hunting?

If street hunting is against the rules then why not remove the mobs from the street?

*head shake*

This is getting more and more twisted.

"It's okay if you do it "here" but not okay if you do it "here" "

What?

I'll propose the same thing I did in the other thread:

If you have a group of six that split into two groups of three, each fighitng whatever, then give the full group experience.

If you havea group of 3 whereupon someone is outside of whatever arbitrary range you decide upon, don't give them exp.

There - now those of us who dislike missions can still split team - since it's okay IN a mission - while those who you were - apparently *though the idea's already been shot in the foot *shrugs* not trying to flame just stating facts * - trying to stop in the first place.

*...FTB...*

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Well, they made a similar concession to autologout, making it not happen in missions. That didn't help people who wanted to avoid autologout for legit reasons outside of missions were out of luck then, too. Applying it to zones will indeed put a crimp in PLers and get rid of the ghost falcon lag a bit, so I can see some upside for a lot less downside than before.

That said, I think they'll need to figure a way to make zone hunting worth doing all bunched up. I can see where attacking a hazard zone in 2 subgroups of 4 is much more efficient than one group of 8. I'd like to see some places that could keep a team of 8 going.

It's a step in the right direction. It's not perfect. He tested and changed it once. If warranted, he will again. Still not much of a fan of the 1 minute death timer myself, but glad to see States listening and responding.

Statesman:

I wanted to thank you for listening to our feedback and revising the idea. The refinements are a great improvement. I look forward to testing it.

I asked Statesman where they were on the changes and he PM'd me this:

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No decisions made. Right now focusing on I4 & I5 & CoV. But I want to get Controller stuff on the plate right after I5.

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So, patience is a virtue, (and one controllers tend to have).

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Uh...im not a noob cause ive been playing since beta. Thats how I know.

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You've been playing since beta and you haven't yet come up with a strategy for handling a teammate who plays poorly?

Maybe you should be a little less concerned with other people's learning curves and a little more concerned with your own.

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That makes no sense. Im sorry but deaths by n00bs doesnt reflect a persons skills whatsoever.

If n00b goes into my group, aggroes a bunch 5 levels above the rest of us and gets us all killed...im a bad player?

Maybe you should be a little less concerned with this post and more concerned with making an insightfull comment

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I did, your inability to comprehend it is evidence of where the real problem lies.

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Uh...im not a noob cause ive been playing since beta. Thats how I know.

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You've been playing since beta and you haven't yet come up with a strategy for handling a teammate who plays poorly?

Maybe you should be a little less concerned with other people's learning curves and a little more concerned with your own.

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I wish people would ask questions before jumping to the NERF! accusation.

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Spongecake is trying to NERF NERFCALLING! Also, the change in Spongecake's position on NERFCALLING is not documented! Spongecake is trying to STEALTH NERF NERFCALLING!

CTRL is your best bet, but you really need to add support for dual chord keys for us bindjunkies.

Also, while you're monkyeing aroudn there, can I please see my enhancements and inspirations at the same time. Pretty please.

5 Stars for you sir.

And 5 more for Mantid with the documentation to back it.

States already had 5 stars. 6 now with his new avatar.

1) Option to join an SG by account, not toon
2) Cross server SGs
3) "Affiliated SGs". Let me as a member of an affiliated SG set my SG channel, color etc. to any of the Affiliated SGs. Let's us have the benefits of larger than 75 member guilds while keeping the flavor of individual SGs.
4) Bases and alliances, of course.
5) Custom Ranks and Privileges.
6) Mutiny capability to kick a leader.
7) Ability to change SG colors and logo.
8) Ability not to display logo when in SG mode.

I just showed the game to a friend last night. He was BOWLED over by the eye candy. I've grown to take it for granted a bit, so it was a nice reminder of how nice even the "old hat" areas in the game looks.

So kudos for the eye candy.

In the huge auditorium the murmers of anxious heroes die down as Statesman takes the podium and delivers his lecture on Solo and Team Play. As he outlines his new plan for how solo play will be supported and team play be encouraged his audience grows incredibly silent. When his speech is done, Statesman looks at the faces in the silent auditorium. Did they like what they heard?

From the back, the sound of one lone hero clapping makes it begin, as ever more rapidly the heroes clap in rhythm, chanting:
states-man.
states-man.
states-Man.
states-Man.
States-Man!
States-Man!
States-MAN!
States-MAN!
STATES-MAN!
STATES-MAN!!

As a smile spreads accross his face, Statesman bows grandly and turns to leave the stage.

Then, he returns to the podium and says: I want to make this very, very clear...these changes are due to not only the "data", but the well reasoned posts on these boards. I really do read & really do listen! The "devs" aren't cooped up in an ivory tower; we love this game just like you do! In the end, we're all players. I have the privilege of being the lead designer. I want to do what's BEST for the game. .

SHEER PANDEMONIUM ENSUES

OK, maybe not. But that's how it felt in my mind.

Statesman, my hats off to you. You're a class act.

I got pegged with a snowball tonight. HILARIOUS! Thanks.

Sadly, I must add a kudo tonight for the ignore feature in the game. A second kudo for building a community where I've been playing for 8 months and this is the first time I had to do that.

Statesman:

Kudos for posting in the ideas forum. It's nice to know you're reading there!

Kudos for opening a discussion about bosses, and taking the time to check into the question.

Those of us who have told others that you take this community seriously are gonna have a lot of crow ready to serve others today.

Been playing a lot lately and not so much on the boards. But I've seen some great stuff lately so here it goes.

The artwork on the CoT mission I just had in the Hollows was IN-CRE-DI-BLE! It was filled with ornate hallways and portals that led through different levels of a 3D mountian filled with baddies. Just beautiful. And 3D warfare to boot. WOW! Now I'm sad I outlevelled the Arc - because it's the first in a LONG time I've looked forward to my next Circle Mission.

Then we took on the Council in Talos and wasted a fun half hour blowing away reinforced doors. The computer readout screens were very interesting and I can only hope that the Council really will be the cause of this winter storm.

Last night I got picked up by an SG filled with people I really like. I know "guilds" are old hat in MMOs, but in a way it fulfills my wish to be one of the super-friends.

Got my cape and second costume at 20. My toon is a homeless kid and I wanted the costume to look cool but also look like stuff he got from dumpsters and goodwill. I was really worried that the costume designer wouldn't be able to pull it off, but it could. DANG that engine is flexible. If my feet and calves were two separate parts of my body it would go past awesome to perfect, but DANG it is awesome.

Kind of sad to see this thread fall so far in the forums. Hope people pop in a couple of times a week to give a kudo or two. I know I will.

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Devs play all the time-- for fun. Unless we are on "official business" (basically being a GM or doing some troubleshooting), we play our Heroes like everyone else; no cheats. It is company policy to not tell other players that you're a dev unless you are on official business.

There's devs playing RIGHT NOW, in fact...

See you in Paragon City!

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It would be great if you guys would "retire" some of your toons and tell us who they were. Then we could know we's played with a dev.

It'd be way cool to see that Positron just retired a guy I went through the Posi TF with.

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This article on Warcry says we can create 100 page posts of our complaints to Cryptic, but can't put together 5 pages of thank you's for the people who make and manage CoH.

I say we prove them wrong. I've seen lots of little thank you threads on these boards: let's see what they look like all in one place. You can keep them short and sweet, just keep them coming.

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11 pages so far...have we proved them wrong yet

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Not really, this thread is an island of positivity in a sea of negativity.

What we have done though is give the devs a place to come for encouragement within that sea of negativity. And they seem to appreciate it, so let's focus on keeping this going, instead of "proving our point".

I appreciate everyone posting here and hope they will keep doing so. But remember Glow Girls article. It's not just about showing the devs the love they deserve, it's about correcting those in other threads who don't give the devs a fair shake.

Thanks to all for your positive responses here. Spread it throughout the rest of these boards.

And Devs, thanks for khaladians. I teamed with two int eh past 24 hours. Very cool.

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I've spent most of my time since the release yesterday reading the boards until I just couldn't anymore because there are SOOOO many negative posts and it became too much to handle. In fact I've barely played the new content because of reading.

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Not that the boards aren't pretty negative as a whole, bue ESPECIALLY after a release. The only person that likes change is a wet baby. And every release these boards become flamefest for a couple of weeks. Go play the game - there's lots of good fun stuff in there. Come back in a couple of weeks and piick your forums carefully (ideas forum is nice, as are most of the server forums).

But don't let the boards tell you what you think about the game: play it!

/end sidetrack

Did the cape mission to help out a friend tonight. Capes look cool. Very cool. Hope someday to see other billlowing clothing, too. Kudos for capes.

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The reason Warcry says what they say is because it's true. This is one thread of only 16 pages so far and there are dozens upon dozens of complaint pages many of them with 150+ pages with only the very few positive posts thrown in here and there.

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Actually, many of those posts are debates between people who are appreciative and those who aren't. But the Warcry article WAS a wake up call that we say too little about what is good in the game and too much about what isn't.

I post to Ask a Stupid Question all the time. I figure I can post one or two fewer stupiditied a day and one or two kudos instead. If lots of people do that, we might actually serve as a voice against the negativity.

I'd like to kudo the smooth Issue 3 rollout. The servers are a bit laggy, but they're in the yellow, too. I compart this to Issue 2 and I'm ery impressed with the behind the scenes time they spent in the past few weeks preparing for this. Very nice.

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I want to add my praise, as well! I especially like the active fighting between the 5th Column and Council forces throughout the city. I never cared much for the "two enemy groups fighting, but neither doing damage", but understood it was necessary to give atmosphere, and the players still get a challenge. But this active fighting between 5th & Council is great to watch! I love when several squads all come together in a massive firefight. WEEE!


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Beat me to it. I joined two teams joining in the infighting and we got hit by wave after wave of reinforcements. Died 4x. Loved EVERY minute!

Statesman:

I came to post one kudo, and found this:

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And thank you all.

It's our great fans that make this game the success that it is. Nothing is more satisfying than reading these posts - and going on the live servers and hearing the chat.

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Thank you for posting to this thread and letting us know that the atta-boys really get through to you. They're well deserved.

Now back to our original Kudo, already in progress...

...and I thought people might be worried that Statesman had already made up his mind to make Fire and Illusion control weaker. So I PM'd him to post a public message telling us if that was the case - and he did it. He says he's still looking things over and doesn't know yet - which is fair, but the important thing is that he cared enough to let us know.

So kudos to States for keeping an open mind when approaching an issue, and letting us know what's on his mind.