Pilcrow

Indeed.

It's not like changing my board name was gonna have an effect, and two people said they had a hard time PMing me.

Another shameless bump.

Maybe with REC rate factored in this will make up for the extra time it will take me under ED to finish off foes.

Still have some misgivings about ED, but DPE was the hardest hit. So, a guarded thank you for this. Demonstrates that the Devs do think of all facets of a change.

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Well.. "liar" is not the right word. The upcoming ner.. er.. "change for the benefit of the game".. is a large change to the enhancement system, not to the powersets.

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What is a powerset made up of? Powers, right? So is it fair to say changes to powers ARE changes to a powerset, or are teh only changes to a powerset changes where powers are moved or powers are put in or taken out?

OK then, what do enhancements enhance? They enhance powers. Nothing else in the game, just powers. And NO powers come with 0 enhancement slots. Every single power has at least one. There is no such thing as a power without an enhancement slot.

Enhancements are POWER MODIFIERS. Saying changes to them is NOT a change to powers is like saying changes to allowable deductions is not a change to in income tax. That's nonsense.

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we’ve finished making large changes to the power sets

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^
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The inspiration for my new board name.

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Smooooooooooooth as the backside of a politician. Words are one thing, but the general sentiment given out counts for something.

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Indeed, Jack is smart enough to know the impression the above quote left. Even if the statement were to be technically true, it would remain disingenuous if a large change that weakens heroes were to come out after that statement.

Even if that change were overall, a good and fair idea...

Even if that change was foreshadowed in a post he made months ago...

It still would be disingenuous to leave the impression that the major changes were complete if a mjor change were still in the pipeline.

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Something needs to be said from the dev side... like now.

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I'm absolutely certain that CuppaJo will always do everything in her power to give the CoH community as much information as she possibly can, even if that means dragging the Devs over here on the weekend to get that information posted to the CoH forums. If there is ANY way to get us key information, you know Cuppa is working as hard as she can do get it here. Frankly, the devs are working really hard, too, if the times of day they're posting is any indication.

I'll tell you this. CuppaJo might have better luck serving the needs of the CoH community if she weren't so busy looking for threads that violate forum rules, etc.

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And I miss your avatar!

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Me, too. I'll have to come up with something else fun and, I suppose, less sacreligious.

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we’ve finished making large changes to the power sets

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^
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The inspiration for my new board name.

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Animate Stone:Hurl Boulder - 91.9 initial damage + 0 tics of 0 DOT / 11 Brawl = 8.35 BI initial + 0 tics of 0 BI = 8.35 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 1.39 BI



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Not to be a spoilsport, but...Shouldn't animation time be factored into the equation?

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Yes, I'm working on it.

I was hoping Circeus' demo file analyzer would help out, but so far, it's not helping me much.

Anyhow, here are the numbers with singularity:

<ul type="square">[*]Imps:Melee - 27.8 initial damage + 3 tics of 11.11 DOT / 11 Brawl = 2.53 BI initial + 3 tics of 1.01 BI = 5.56 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.93 BI per imp for a total of 2.78 BI[*]Animate Stone:Hurl Boulder - 91.9 initial damage + 0 tics of 0 DOT / 11 Brawl = 8.35 BI initial + 0 tics of 0 BI = 8.35 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 1.39 BI[*]Animate Stone:Stone Fist - 55.6 initial damage + 0 tics of 0 DOT / 11 Brawl = 5.05 BI initial + 0 tics of 0 BI = 5.05 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.84 BI[*]Animate Stone:Stone Mallet - 91.9 initial damage + 0 tics of 0 DOT / 11 Brawl = 8.35 BI initial + 0 tics of 0 BI = 8.35 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 1.39 BI[*]Phantasm:Eng Blast - 27 initial damage + 1 tics of 8 DOT / 9.71 Brawl = 2.78 BI initial + 1 tics of 0.82 BI = 3.6 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.6 BI[*]Phantasm:Eng Torrent - 39 initial damage + 1 tics of 15 DOT / 9.71 Brawl = 4.02 BI initial + 1 tics of 1.54 BI = 5.56 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.93 BI[*]Phantasm's Decoy:Eng Blast - 52 initial damage + -52 tics of 0 DOT / 9.71 Brawl = 5.36 BI initial + -52 tics of 0 BI = 5.36 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.89 BI[*]Phantasm's Decoy:Eng Torrent - 52 initial damage + -52 tics of 0 DOT / 9.71 Brawl = 5.36 BI initial + -52 tics of 0 BI = 5.36 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.89 BI[*]Jack Frost:Ice Blast - 34.72 initial damage + 1 tics of 8.67 DOT / 10.73 Brawl = 3.24 BI initial + 1 tics of 0.81 BI = 4.04 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.67 BI[*]Jack Frost:Ice Sword - 27 initial damage + 1 tics of 27 DOT / 10.73 Brawl = 2.52 BI initial + 1 tics of 2.52 BI = 5.03 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.84 BI[*]Jack Frost:Greater Ice Sword - 69 initial damage + 1 tics of 54 DOT / 10.73 Brawl = 6.43 BI initial + 1 tics of 5.03 BI = 11.46 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 1.91 BI[*]Jack Frost:Ice Touch - 0 initial damage + 6 tics of 15.18 DOT / 10.73 Brawl = 0 BI initial + 6 tics of 1.41 BI = 8.49 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 1.41 BI[*]Singularity:Crush - 0 initial damage + 5 tics of 9.78 DOT / 11 Brawl = 0 BI initial + 5 tics of 0.89 BI = 4.45 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.74 BI[*]Singularity:Lift - 35.57 initial damage + 0 tics of 0 DOT / 11 Brawl = 3.23 BI initial + 0 tics of 0 BI = 3.23 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.54 BI[*]Singularity:GD - 0 initial damage + 5 tics of 8.88 DOT / 11 Brawl = 0 BI initial + 5 tics of 0.81 BI = 4.04 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.67 BI[/list]
<ul type="square">[*]Imps - Average of 5.56 BI per attack and 2.78 DPS (BI)[*]Animate Stone - Average of 7.25 BI per attack and 1.21 DPS (BI)[*]Phantasm - Average of 4.58 BI per attack and 0.76 DPS (BI)[*]Phantasm's Decoy - Average of 5.36 BI per attack and 0.89 DPS (BI)[*]Jack Frost - Average of 7.26 BI per attack and 1.21 DPS (BI)[*]Singularity - Average of 4.04 BI per attack and 0.67 DPS (BI)[/list]
Now, I did zapruder Singularity. It seems to attack 18 times per minute, in bursts of 3-5 seconds of spamming and then a pause. Pretty consistent with the attack rates of the Controller versions of these powers, I believe. GD + LIFT + CRUSH = 3 sec animation + 1 sec anim + 2 sec anim then 4-5 seconds before any of them is recharged. Sing COULD do crush first and get an extra one in the chain, but he didn't always open with crush. He did tend to open with either crush or GD, lift was almost always post a control.

Last note: Lift does extra damage in PVP now, so I'm worried if that applies to Grav. Someone please check how it looks in PVE.

So, singularity's speed is definitely higher than one attack every 6 seconds. It averages 3.33/seconds.

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You guys need me to try out Stoney's rate at which he attacks and switches? (assuming it does switch based on time) I'd be more than happy to. Might just do it anyway

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Tremere and I played in perez with phants and stoney.

Cap appears to be 400%. We ran multiple tests on stoney (about 6) and 2 on phants.

I'll get the singularity numbers next.

My troller is a KIN. I'm game.

I have put the Singularity dmeo file on my ASB disk. I ought to be able to do those numbers today.

Hopefully this weekend I can zaptruder for timings, meanwhile, I'm trying to get Dark Fluffy and corpse pets from MrQuizzles.

I left them at home. Will have to post them tonight.

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Nothing on Phantom Army?

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I did them first, and it's in the guide.

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I'm on right now, and crush is doing ticks of five. It's harder to tell on gravity distortion because she isn't holding anything that isn't immobilized. That's with small groups so I can better keep track of things though. It appears to be five ticks as well. That would fall in line with the player controlled versions which are also each five. I'm kind of surprised that I never bothered to count the ticks before.

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First off, THANKS!

Second: If you put singy in a big big crowd of MOBs, she might change targets enough to get a good count on immob tics.

But I'm going with 5 until further notice.

Thanks to CB for beating on me with his Singularity last night. I'll compute and post those numbers tonight.

Anyone have reliable numbers on how many tics each of the three powers deliver to an uncontained opponent? I had some trouble measuring because singularity was spamming me pretty hard.

The three attacks are crush, lift and GD, I believe. I just don't know if the pet delivers as many tics as a PC would.

Anyone with reliable information on that would make my day.

Green refers to an individual IMP, yellw is multiplied by all three imps.

Imps:Melee - 27.8 initial damage + 3 tics of 11.11 DOT / 11 Brawl = 2.53 BI initial + 3 tics of 1.01 BI = 5.56 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.93 BI per imp for a total of 2.78 BI

Imps - Average of 5.56 BI per attack and 2.78 DPS (BI)

First off, Mad Props to P-Dude and Tremere for all the help and an extra prop to Tremere for some nice log summarizing, here are our preliminary results on Pet Damage.

They are preliminary because:
[*]I haven't measured the attack rates, just assigned every attack a rate of 6 seconds[*]We haven't tested outside of PVP to see if PVE values are consistent or if something else may have skewed us in the arena[*]My hero was a different level, which may have had some effects[*]We didn't have access to singularity, dark fluffy, or the kheld pet

Would be most happy to meet volunteers with any of those three pets in the arena 1 on 1 on test to try those out. My global is @pilcrow but on test it's @goose man

OK, on to the first draft results, all of these are w/o DMG enhancers (so this is BASE damage)

<ul type="square">[*]Imps:Melee - 27.8 initial damage + 3 tics of 11.11 DOT / 11 Brawl = 2.53 BI initial + 3 tics of 1.01 BI = 5.56 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.93 BI per imp for a total of 2.78 BI[*]Animate Stone:Hurl Boulder - 91.9 initial damage + 0 tics of 0 DOT / 11 Brawl = 8.35 BI initial + 0 tics of 0 BI = 8.35 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 1.39 BI[*]Animate Stone:Stone Fist - 55.6 initial damage + 0 tics of 0 DOT / 11 Brawl = 5.05 BI initial + 0 tics of 0 BI = 5.05 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.84 BI[*]Animate Stone:Stone Mallet - 91.9 initial damage + 0 tics of 0 DOT / 11 Brawl = 8.35 BI initial + 0 tics of 0 BI = 8.35 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 1.39 BI[*]Phantasm:Eng Blast - 27 initial damage + 1 tics of 8 DOT / 9.71 Brawl = 2.78 BI initial + 1 tics of 0.82 BI = 3.6 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.6 BI[*]Phantasm:Eng Torrent - 39 initial damage + 1 tics of 15 DOT / 9.71 Brawl = 4.02 BI initial + 1 tics of 1.54 BI = 5.56 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.93 BI[*]Phantasm's Decoy:Eng Blast - 52 initial damage + -52 tics of 0 DOT / 9.71 Brawl = 5.36 BI initial + -52 tics of 0 BI = 5.36 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.89 BI[*]Phantasm's Decoy:Eng Torrent - 52 initial damage + -52 tics of 0 DOT / 9.71 Brawl = 5.36 BI initial + -52 tics of 0 BI = 5.36 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.89 BI[*]Jack Frost:Ice Blast - 34.72 initial damage + 1 tics of 8.67 DOT / 10.73 Brawl = 3.24 BI initial + 1 tics of 0.81 BI = 4.04 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.67 BI[*]Jack Frost:Ice Sword - 27 initial damage + 1 tics of 27 DOT / 10.73 Brawl = 2.52 BI initial + 1 tics of 2.52 BI = 5.03 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 0.84 BI[*]Jack Frost:Greater Ice Sword - 69 initial damage + 1 tics of 54 DOT / 10.73 Brawl = 6.43 BI initial + 1 tics of 5.03 BI = 11.46 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 1.91 BI[*]Jack Frost:Ice Touch - 0 initial damage + 6 tics of 15.18 DOT / 10.73 Brawl = 0 BI initial + 6 tics of 1.41 BI = 8.49 BI total. Assuming an attack each 6 seconds, this is 1.41 BI[/list]
Summarizing each pet...

<ul type="square">[*]Imps - Average of 5.56 BI per attack and 2.78 DPS (BI)[*]Animate Stone - Average of 7.25 BI per attack and 1.21 DPS (BI)[*]Phantasm - Average of 4.58 BI per attack and 0.76 DPS (BI)[*]Phantasm's Decoy - Average of 5.36 BI per attack and 0.89 DPS (BI) (all autoheals back though)[*]Jack Frost - Average of 7.26 BI per attack and 1.21 DPS (BI)[/list]
If you're in the mood, play with your pet in PVE tonight and see if the numbers flying over MOBs heads are in line with our BI per attack.

I still have to zapruder the demos for attack speeds. Hoping Circeus' demo file analyzer will help me there.

Thanks to all for their assistance so far.

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02/11/05 07:25 PM

its 7 months past the orginal post...why are we still letting this live??

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Redname posts nevery die. They just fade away...

...and occasionally get necro-rezzed.

We tested everything but singularity.

CircuitBoi, I'm calling you out. You gotte schedule a meet with me on test and have your Singularity slap me around.

Interestingly, some pet attack show up in your log and others don't seem to. But we demorecorede, too, so I ought to be able to deliver numbers on each attack. I will also do my best to time the attacks so we can make some DPS calculations.

Stay tuned. Probably nothing until next week. In-laws in town for weekend.

Apparently, my handle on test is @Goose Man

Heading in now. Going to the Galaxy City arena. Handle is @pilcrow

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My handle is @pilcrow for those who can make it.

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Doh! I was comcasted. Cable just came back up.

Anyone up for Thursday Night at 9 PM EST?

My handle is @pilcrow for those who can make it.

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I can throw in Stoney, Sing or Phants. My question is how do you plan on buffing the pets damage? everyone respec into assault? or forts?

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This is in the arena, so there's no need to buff the pets' damage since we'll (hopefully) be able to read it straight off the combat log of the person getting attacked, which means that all damage enhancements should be removed from the pet. I will say though that I've occasionally had weird things happen to my combat log in the arena and you *might* not get all the numbers you want. If it's a time I can attend I can provide a tank without any passive resists and Aid Self. Wednesday or Thursday evening probably won't work for me.

Here's the Brawl Index I've tested on imps, Controller Brawl at level 50 is exactly 11.00 smashing damage for reference.
Imp Brawl (melee): 2.53 smashing, 1.00x3 fire (DoT)

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Sorry, but not quite correct. What you are suggesting will gives us the BIs, however the goal is to find out what and IF there is a damage cap for the pets. For that the pets will need to be buffed, but incremently. So, to start off yes the pets will need to be stripped of all enhs, and then slowly added on. Yet I doubt 6 Dmg ++ SOs will be enough for the pets to hit the dmg cap, and thus they will have to be buffed by other means as well.

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I'll bring my KIN so we can test caps, too.

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Nope, I just forgot that PA was unbaffable in my greedy wish to put another DMG enhancer in there.

Curses!

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You were baffled?

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Now that would be a fun control power.

You BAFFLE Mortifiator, he has no idea what he should be doing anymore and randomly performs actions
Mortificator does jumping jacks
Mortificator attacks Heroguy for 6.57 HP
Mortificator attacks Mire Eidelon for 6.57 HP
Mortificator is Resting
Mortificator chooses scissors

Meh, kind of like confuse in dumb mode.

See you tonight at 8 PM EST.

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What happens if you add a fully slotted Tactics to the mix? An Ill/Kin Troller really benefits from the ACC boost in Tactics since so many powers depend on a successful hit on a target.

I have about 12 ACC slots in all my powers. Using Tactics, I can free up 7 of them. Granted, I use 2 powers instead of the 7 slots, which is now causing me problems figuring out the new build.

The way I see it, 3 dam 3 rechrg should do the trick.

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It was my understanding that PA didn't benefit from Leadership. Way back when I had Leadership on my Illusion controller, I could swear that it made no difference to PA. The Phantasm was buffed by it, but not PA. Has that changed?

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Nope, I just forgot that PA was unbaffable in my greedy wish to put another DMG enhancer in there.

Curses!