PennyPA
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Oooookay, if you say so, it must be true.Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
What you wrote here can easily be seen as a complaint. At the very least, making a mountain out of a molehill. -
Quote:Actually that is a good point. If there was an intent for new players and people coming back, this would have been perfect.Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
I'll strenghten my previous comment and complain that they did it an issue too late if that helps?
Rabble, rabble, rabble. The Devs hate Praetorians and waited until they'd all moved on before making this change!!
(not serious though, I do think it was a small opportunity missed on their part though) -
Quote:Who's complaining?Originally Posted by Local_Man
And if you don't need those additional powers, pick something that can be a mule for an IO you want. But stop complaining, as there is no downside to this new option.
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I am in agreement with Techbot Alpha.
For me, this change is only going to affect my early playstyle (not resting as much and such). But the way my toons are built, it is going to be more of a pain for me to add three more powers that I won't be able to slot the way I want.
For example, I like having sprint as a one slot and lets me use slots that come after for other powers. Now, I would have to take something and won't have the slots to make it more practical or usuable for me. Powers that don't need a lot of slots like adding recall friend or such could be added, but they will be minor additions and not change my toons significantly: my dark/therm corr is not suddenly going to solo SFs; my MM's can solo +4/+8 missions and solo AVs so not much more to do for them.
Some players and some toons will get boosted, but I feel the impact will be not that great, but I guess we will see. Maybe the new End Game content will force us to think differently. -
I haven't seen this taking an hour to get a tip yet, but the suggestion is interesting.
I could see an "informant"-like NPC that skulks at a point in 20+ zones. They could add a sliding scale inf from 20 to 50 as a tiny inf sink, like 1K at 20 and 100K at 50 (this is like the old diff setting in paying inf to change; maybe they can use the old scale
). I would limit it to getting these twice a day so that some one can find 3 tips, and get the last two more quickly (from some post like in the OP, it sounds like the RNG is more random at times).
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Eh, not seeing much value in this. It appears as a QoL for rushing it (aka got to have these all now because I can't be bothered to play the game and just get more), but this game is more than just Tip missions. Play the game - run some paper missions, an arc or S/TF/Trial. And they will drop.
Just how much is going on here for tips too? Okay, you get them, switch alignment, then what? You going back and forth all week long? I see this as more clutter where 3 tips are fine. -
I will add to Chad for the Paragon Wiki (link). Not as official, but a good summary and usually has links to information on the forums.
As for the specifics on power changes, apart from the Dev Digest, that would be best in the specific AT forums. IME, the posts are pretty helpful in pointing out the changes or linking to previous discussion. -
Looks at sig - Black Hole IOs!
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Quote:This.Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
I wouldn't.
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Quote:That was a great explanation Sam. We still differ, but I can see you pointer much better now. I guess we will see if the devs have some surprises or not in the future (like the fitness pool announcement).Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I want to have the ability to slot these powers if I so happened to have slots left from elsewhere. It's not vital that I do, it's not mandatory that I do, and I manage just fine without it. But I still WANT to have that ability. A couple more slots at 50 would be cool, but I know that won't happen. But if I can sacrifice slots from elsewhere... Why not? Seriously, why not?
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Quote:Originally Posted by VoodooCompany
I got some badges at least.....
Hindsight: Too many melee, not enough buff and/or debuff for the most part. I saw a lot more PITA Wardens than I recall from various other run throughs, mainly the Rad, Sonic, and Electric variety. Their nukes can hurt, and the damn DoTs on top of that make it damn near impossible to live through.
Penny, too busy for a Friday MM STF attempt?
The first time for sure. The second time, I actually thought were were better balanced. I will add that the team should have stuck closer together since all those wardens were around, and not rushed in so fast. Live and learn.
And yeah, I am visiting family this weekend, leaving Friday after the boys get home from school. Will be back Sunday evening! not that anyone needed to know lol!
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Quote:Thanks Sam for the reply. It helped explain a lot. I will focus on the last 2 points since I think that is what I am misunderstanding.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Two points:
1. This means that your final power pick which ought to be your best... Really isn't, because you're forced to deliberately put off a crappy power choice for last because of how the system is designed. Rather an anti-climax if you ask me. My game starts "ending" from around 47 or 48.
2. "Levelling just one level" will no longer be relevant as of I19, taking into account the Incarnate system. It will no longer be a case of "I'll be shelving this character anyway, who cares about the last few levels?" and be more a case of "I must take on tougher challenges now." That last power will have to last me through possibly ten Incarnate levels, if not more, so I REALLY have to make sure it's something that doesn't need slots, rather than something which needs them but I'm simply not going to use it.
I view the APP/PPP as extras - the bells and whistles of an AT. IMO, you best/final pick is at 32/38 for an AT. For example, if I saw an MM not take their lvl32 buff but have 4 PPP's because that is how they wanted to (it's their choice to the play the AT how they want), then I would not consider that a good selection of powers because they are skipping an extremely great power IME.
APP/PPP's can be changed between the sets. That for me says they are not vital in any way. Look at PPP's before we could change them and were locked into 1 set. They were all clones essentially of each between patrons, slight differences, but nothing game changing.
I mentioned before, on some toons like my corruptors, I just took the armor power so I could slot resist or def IOs. My widow has no PPP (or APP) powers. Again, I don't see how these powers have now become essential. I even pointed out that I have been on teams like for the ITF, where I am 35 SSK'd with a 50 leading, and still able to play. I have all those APP/PPP powers missing and still dish out damage/buffs/etc. I used your LRM rocket example leaving you only a sleep and hold left as choices. Just how many slots you talking here to be effective? I don't use either and my blaster keeps on blasting.
As for the other point, I am aware of the incarnates and still play my 50's. I think you misunderstood me there. I am trying to say that what is the difference between a 49 and 50 that you can't do? Are the mobs suddenly tougher or changed between those levels? Are you saying lvl54's are too tough? That would be an extreme.
Anyhow, I still can't see what powers you are referring too in the APP/PPP that are vital. You can skip them entirely or take one or 4, change them whenever you have respecs available, and don't define the AT. You also have options that you don't want to use (like your comment about having to use IOs, which you don't have too). -
Well some mix up in team forming last night. ohloh, I didn't see you on and we got a backup to fill in.
Not as smooth as planned, and we were not able to complete the Master badge. I am busy in the near future and can not plan for another attempt.
For the record, my defender got the MM temp power to stop Reich from phasing. -
SHamster, since you ran this last night with me, my emp def got the MM temp.
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Quote:What context? The APP/PPP's can be changed any time you want with a respec. There is no way to pick all 5. They are extras. You are treating them like they are essential to the AT. There are no "facts" that these powers need to be 6 slotted.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Again, you ignore context. That was in response to the claim that there was no power which needed many slots that you couldn't take earlier than level 47, when in fact there are several, therefore there is reason to look for a couple more slots at 50. Inventions ARE a solution, but they are a solution to a great many other things that have alternate solutions, as well.
Other solutions were offered. You are blind to even considering them.
I have LRM rocket on my blaster. It is situational at best. It is also the last pick in the set. What from that set are so important you need to 6 slot? You don't. They work fine with just a couple of slots.Quote:If, however, I wish to have LRM Rocket, then this means both that I have to take it at level 47, which I can, and that I have to take something which I ostensibly do not need at level 49. As this is the final power pick in the game, I keep thinking it ought to be something awesome.
They were not brought up as the SOLE solution. You can:Quote:I don't challenged that Inventions can make something better, but I DO challenge the notion when they are brought up as the sole solution in what is a fairly common problem. And I say fairly common because the game post 30 has been one power pick to six slot picks, and right at the end it dumps two power picks with just six slots between them. I would honestly much rather have 48, 49 and 50 be slot levels.
- use SO's and six slot using 50 slots.
- use s/HO's and get great benefits
- avoid the market and not even use IO's
You six slot your level 38 powers like Revive? Or the 32 power for MM's? You really don't have extra slots from all these choices?
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Let's take a different look. You bring up LRM Rocket. Here are the choices:
Body Armor (41 Auto: Self +Res)
Cryo Freeze Ray (41 Ranged, Minor DMG(Cold), Foe Hold)
Sleep Grenade (44 Ranged (Targeted AoE), Minor DMG(Smash), Foe Sleep)
Surveillance (44 Ranged, Foe -Res(All), -DEF(All))
LRM Rocket (47 Sniper (Targeted AoE), Superior DMG(Smash, Lethal), Foe Knockback)
Okay, for my blaster, I took Body Armor for a mule on resist IO unique, Surveillence for debuffing, and LRM Rocket because I like the power. My 49 power was the rez from the medicine pool b/c I wanted Aid Self at some point. So that leaves Cryo Freeze Ray and Sleep Grenade if I chose to take those instead. What is the difference in slotting if I choose to 6 slot LRM rocket at 47 with 50 slots, leaving only 2 total for my 49 power. I am asking for you to put into context how important those 2 powers are for leveling just one level. -
Go Virgos!
HBD
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Quote:Looks like SatanicHamsterLeader will be on tonight...Originally Posted by Satanic_Hamster
My experience is that blasters get the mm power. Posted a thread on this in the Questions forum, see if anyone has confirmation for the rest of the ATs.
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Quote:From Masque:Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
So no MM? Or will someone be switching?
Never doubt the Masque! until we are actually in the SFQuote:Defenders also get the MM temp power. -
Quote:This is really confusing. What power(s) are you referring too - LRM rocket, FoN? How are these vital and why can't you take at 47 and just six slot using the slots at 50? Also, all powers are opened at 47. There is no power unlocked at 49. I would also argue that the devs know what power picks are availabile at 47 and 49 and those powers are there based on their effectiveness and ability to be slotted. Just how much more benefit we talking here?Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Here's the thing, though. It is said that there is no power which requires many slots that you can't take before level 47, when in fact there is at least one. In fact, there are several, if memory serves, such as Foce of Nature (sic). Certain powers exist and have always existed, that can be taken at level 49 at the earlies, which benefit from many, many slots.
IMO, I think you are putting too much value of the APP/PPP. As you know, you get all of your AT primary/secondary powers by 32/38 respectively. This gives the player ample opportunity to 6 slot powers for the powers of their AT. The APP/PPP help flush out the character with some nice extras - if the player even chooses to use them. My Widow did not choose any of the PPP's for example. A number of my corruptors just took the shield and nothing else from the PPP. In other cases I wish I could take all 5 APP/PPP's for a particular toon.Quote:That's why I'm saying that a couple of extra slots at level 50 might not be a bad idea, both to make level 50 stand out a bit more and to not shaft what you take at 49 so badly. Because ANY power you take at level 49 HAS to be one that doesn't require many slots, which by extension means it almost always has to be one that isn't very inspiring, such Assault or Hurdle or something of that nature. They're good to have, mind you - every power is. But there's this inverse logic which, rather than holding off the best for last, makes us hold off the worst for last, thereby making the last, say, 4 or 5 levels of gameplay really boring because nothing you get in them will be slotted very well.
Either a few more slots, or opening up Epics sooner, say at 38 or at 35, such that I can take the final Epic power sooner than 47 would be great. After all, with Fitness becoming inherent and people apparently being given lots of "free" power choices, it'd make sense.
You are also ignoring other ways to get effectively slot the lvl47/49 powers more powerfully. The game gives you the tools already. You are choosing to not use them and saying more slots are the answer - esp. when there are players soloing content like AV's, S/TFs, etc. This would make this game even easier by removing challenge on build design and making stronger toons even stronger. -
Quote:Originally Posted by ArizonaGunn
If you have room for two, Lanna Su (Scary Hedgehog/scrapper) and myself (Tarkin Gunn/tank) will be there.
Done and Done.
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Quote:Sam, this is confusing. Could you give a little more clarification?Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
So much for Inventions not being required, I suppose. They aren't, except when they are.
You can slot the lvl47 power to 6, even with just SOs. The lvl49 power is the only power we can not 6 slot.
It is very unclear how a lvl47 (or 49) power is vital to a build, even if just using SOs and ignoring any IO set bonuses. For example, I have leveled up in this range and not bothered training until lvl50. I was able to still defeat mobs and play the contect solo or teamed. Further, I have teamed on the LGTF as a 45+ SSK'd to 49, and ITFs as a 35+ SSK'd to 49. No issues any time, so those powers and slot that I have yet to take did not impact my contribution to the team.
You don't have to use IOs at all. You can use SOs and even s/HOs, that you know are not inventions. Additionally, you can avoid the market if you wish and just run the STF or LRSF or participate in Hami raids to get those enhancements. I view it as an extreme if a player is purposely choosing to not use IOs (including generics) and saying they don't have time for the STF/LRSF or won't do Hami raids and avoiding the market, but yet still wanting to have the benefits of those enhancements. They may exist, but to what extent? Taking the "just give me more slots" position seems spoilish IMO since they want the benefits but not work for them. They can achieve what they want either by six slotting the lvl47 at the expense of the lvl49 power or frankenslotting or using s/HOs or some other creative solution. -
Quote:This.Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Frankenslot with 3 Acc/Dam/End IOs (giving a total of about 55% to all 3) and a Damage IO (to bump damage up to 95%ish). Or 2 Acc/Dam/End and 2 Damage/Recharge if you prefer (or a mix between them).
I've very rarely wished for more slots, but I frankenslot everything and every character. Even my Warshade was pretty content with the number they had in the end.
I have that power and used some creativity with frankenslotting. And IME, it is not "vital" to my build (as pointed out by NightshadeLegree). If you are depending on that attack for your build to be playable, that must be one interesting build.
I know IO's are optional but if the point is being made to flat out ignore them because they don't want to, thus needing more slots for lvl47/49 powers, I would challenge you Sam to provide some evidence how big an issue this is. The game provides many tools to including s/HO's which are obtained from the content in the game if the player chooses to ignore the market. (And it would be splitting hairs if it is brought up that there are players that don't do raids or don't have time for TFs like the STF or LRSF AND refuse to use the market AND need a lvl47 power that is vital to their build - that is going to extremes unless you have solid numbers showing the severity of the issue.)
The number of slots are a challenge to think on your build and make choices. The devs are not blind to the fact that there are lvl47 and 49 powers and the number of slots possible for them. You have to make a choice or be creative with the tools the game gives you. -
Quote:I am too. Yes, a couple of spots still open...coughMM/Tank/Brutecouch...Originally Posted by VoodooCompany
*bump*
I'm excited!
But we still need a couple of spots?
I will start broadcasting in the channel a bit before 9 if these don't fill today. -
Thank you Fista! And thank you Victory, you all are a great community!
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Quote:Maybe just testing the waters and nothing to do with importance? The devs are more aware then people give them credit. It could have been nothing more than "just say it and see what happens" comment. You are making this into a mountain rather than the hill it was.Originally Posted by Steampunkette
If it wasn't important, why did the Devs -ask- whether it should be changed?
Opinions and beliefs aside: If it wasn't important at all, why would the Devs, the final arbiters on whether something hits the game or not, bother to ask the players about it?
Must be important to someone.
-Rachel-