PeerlessGirl

I can almost guarantee you this one will not happen. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it will likely NEVER happen.

I'm paraphrasing, but Castle at one point said "I've learned to never say never, but basically never." When asked about Level Cap increases.

It comes up once every few months or anytime there's a major release (it was brought up in a few threads on the public boards when GR was close to release as well). Generally with CoH, that'll never happen.

I think that means i20 BETA starts before i19 BETA does. I19 will still release before 20 (as 19 will likely be out by Thanksgiving or before, and 20 will likely be Christmas or first month or two of 2011. They'll just be running 2 concurrent beta's, one ultra-secret and long, one probably extremly short, and maybe even "Clopen" because it's fairly small and a majority of that work was done during i18 testing.

A red name basically DID say this, back when Lighthouse said that PvP wasn't really a focus, and wasn't a priority. My bet is, he let that slip because he was so annoyed and overwhelmed dealing with "the PvP Community" a large portion of which treated him like crap, regardless of what he tried to do for them and he was tired of taking it. Shortly after he made that slip, he "left" NC and went on to other things. Someone didn't want that stated quite that way and Lighthouse was gone because of it. It's a shame, I always liked him.

Granted a lot of this is theory, but the points do add up, though it's also just as likely LH was tired and/or fed up, and voluntarily chose to move on to something else as well.

I really don't understand this. How do "tight builds get tighter?" If your build is already tight, and you have no slots devoted to Fitness powers OR you didn't take them at all because your build was tight, or you didn't feel you "needed" them, then you just got something for "free" that's better than not having the power. If you had the power but didn't slot it, nothing changes for you. if you had the power and already had slots devoted to it, you'll likely still want to devote those slots to it when it changes, so again, nothing changes for you. It doesn't make builds any tighter, it makes them the same, except you now have the chance to pick 3 powers you didn't before, and may not be able to slot them to your liking, because you put slots into the Fitness powers. That's the only aspect of this that's "tight" in any way, shape, or form. Now if you're insane and OCD, and you decide at level 3, 5, and 7 to 3 slot Health and Stamina because you now have them at level 2, then you probably just tightened your build because those would've gone into mitigation or attacks before, but that was your own decision. Having the powers AT ALL at that level is a buff, just leave them with 1 slot until the levels we would've normally picked them up, then start slotting them. If you DID happen to find a slot somewhere before that (maybe you'd rather slot up Stamina at 19 as opposed to 21 so that you can take an AT power at 20 (like say, KO Blow) and slot THAT up at 21 instead, well, now you have that option as opposed to the old "holy rule" of "Thou shalt take Stamina by 20, and thou shalt put both 21 slots into it, lest thou die in a firey end-sucking pit of despair."

I just cannot wrap my mind around how this change makes any build tighter than it already is. It does not. It makes them the SAME, but adds flexibility to earlier and later levels, and adds power to earlier levels.

I wonder the same thing when I see some of these posts. "Am I really a fangurl, or do I just fit the target audience they're aiming for?" Sure, game has flaws, quite a few of them, but I still love playing it. I agree, party pack is too expensive, especially compared to DLC for a major game that's coming out Tuesday. Still though, I will buy it. You know why? Not because I really want it per se, but because I believe every little bit I do helps support the game, and shows them we still love it, also I feel like it's a "thank you" for everything that's happened so far, and what's coming in 19 and 20 and beyond.

Darn those RPers, always wanting something. (That might be part of why they're doing it, it's something we RPers have asked for for a long time, also might be because "certain other games" (tm) that both are and are not out will/do have them (though in the case of the one that's out, I think they're horribly lame...but go figure).

That's not actually true. As I said before, I signed one for the FFXI Japanese PS2 beta. Also, they could ask you to fax it back, or scan it in and upload/mail it somewhere as well, in this day and age, I find that more likely. But Microsoft makes you sign and send back paper for every major beta they do, so it's certainly possible.

I was going to say "the other true part of the post was "bitter PvPers don't realize they're bitter". But I don't have to, this post proves that for me.

My standard response to this stuff is "This game has PvP in it?" Of course I know it does, I've even done it on occasion, but the running joke is, CoX does not have PvP. The sooner the hardcore PvPers accept that, and either find something else to like about the game, or find a new game, the sooner we can all get on to important issues, like animated hair, and more RP emotes. :P

You obviously didn't read the earlier parts of the thread with "TamakiRevolution"'s posts then. There've been about 3-5 people doomcrying, and 1-2 supposedly /ragequitting over it. Not talking about you, just that there are people calling DOOOOOM same as always.

We actually went over this in a thread where people were posting wating to get into loyalty beta. PS has never "made us sign an NDA" not even a digital one. All they've done in every beta previous is ASK NICELY that people respect a list of terms we've all come to call "the NDA" if you broke it, and they found out, you were removed from Beta, and barred from future betas at their discretion.

For "Real" Betas. (Microsoft Products, the Japanese PS2-based Beta of FFXI I was in, many game-launch betas especially by SOE). You either electronically sign a legal document, or in the case of the "Japanese PS2-Beta" I had a physical document of serveral pages mailed to me in a fed ex mailer, I read through it, signed and dated it, then mailed it back to Sony, it also delt with how I would return the hardware at the end of the period, etc. etc.

When you sign a true "signed NDA" of those natures, either physically or electronically, you can actually be sued by the company for breach of contract and things of that nature. Doesn't mean they WILL, but they CAN. So no, we've never "signed" an NDA since i9, the first "Closed Beta".

I've heard/been told that the original CoV Beta had a signed NDA in some form, as did, probably the original CoH Beta. Personally I'm surprised we didn't sign one for the GR Beta, but given the nature of the loyalty rewards program and all that confusion, I suspect it was "more trouble than it was worth". So either stuff in i20 is SO big they want extra security, or they've just tired of the leaks and things they've had in the past, and have decided to move to a "real" beta model, and require signed NDAs from then on. One or the other.

Short answer: Yeah, it's very different, and no, we've never signed one before.

Actually, if you read the tweets, they ARE looking into animated hands and faces...

geeze...some people...

That's funny, people keep saying that, but my card runs the game maxed out at 1920X1200 with everything on ultra except Ambient Occlusion, which is 2 notches down from Ultra (which no one should ever run anyway) and in Grandville I get between 30 and 45ish FPS at all times.

Then again, I am running a GTX 470...

Mostly just pointing out, it's not the game's fault if your card can't handle it.

Virtue has been notorious for hardware problems for as long as I can remember, besides the recent mess a couple months ago, a few years back right before the last hardware upgrade Virtue crapped itself about every day for a solid week for an hour or two at a time. I can only hope they're upgrading hardware during this 12 HOUR mantenance, or Virtue simply won't survive the influx of GR players.

*ROFL* Oh..nevermind..that was priceless!

I'm going to assume this is a joke..but internet sarcasm hardly works right, so just in case it's not:

1) What evidence do you have that the original release date was "arbitrary"?

2) How do you know "GR is nowhere near ready for public testing?" You either don't, or you'd have to violate the NDA to say so.

3) This has to be a joke, as you can't possibly believe they'd have time for 1-50 content in Praetoria, AND 10 levels of Incarnates, if you do, then you must expect the release date to be somewhere around Summer 2011.

4) I may have missed the Don King reference, but again..I assume this is a joke..but it's hard to tell around here sometimes...

On this, I do feel the need to disagree. You can't blame "the Devs" (i.e. the people who work on the game) for the actions that NCSoft and/or Marketing takes. This whole thing smells of Marketing and NCSoft Management to me. Blaming War Witch and/or Positron et. al. for anything of this nature is...well, stupid and childish. You can "blame" them for dropping features or what have you or "screwing up the game" but you can't blame them for what is probably clearly a marketing issue: i.e. the ComiCon decision, the release date, the dropping of features (this is debateable, as Positron clearly said they were dropping it (Alpha Incarnate Slot) to make it more of what it should be, and I believe that. However, by the same token, if trying to get it done NOW might mess up the already-decided release date, NC/Marketing will come to War Witch/Posi whomever and go "Well..you're probably not going to make the release date, you need to make it, so something has to go." That or they decided voluntarily that it needed to be dropped in order to make the release date, and thus make Incarnates better once it does come out. It is also important to remember that the game IS a business, and thus, it's supposed to take any chance it can to make more money, especially in this economy.

What I don't agree with is fall off favor with current players to this level to do so, though if that IS the case, that's squarely on the feet of NCSoft, not our developers. I never implied it was a US/EU issue, though in the past things have come out first on the EU forums before they became knowledge on the US forums, is mostly what I was alluding to.

I don't think they'll "continue dropping features" as they haven't (to my knowledge) dropped anything that was actually advertised on the box (as opposed to Cryptic who DID drop the Cathedral of Pain which AFAIK was advertised as part of CoV (not that I personally care, just putting it out there)).

As far as "taking money for preorders and changing features at the last minute" that happens to a LOT of games, and a pre-order does not guarantee the game will be in the same state at release as it is when that preorder is placed, it's just that most of the time, you're preordering a game that is new, and you've either beta'd it (or get that as part of your PO) or you know nothing about it, so you wouldn't know something changed, except later to talk to people who DID beta test the game (case in point: I beta tested Champions Online, and I can flat out tell you the massive amount of crap they changed/ignored/lied about. Comparitively our people at PS/NC are saints). That's why I always preorder at a store, if I have the option, as that can be cancelled before release, the NCSoft "prepurchase" cannot. Also, I want the gamestop items and the mouse surface.

I do agree that they have a select batch of players they tend to listen to more than others, though I think that happens by nature when some people contribute more than others, and have shown themselves to do so. The only point I agree fully on, and have always is that their communication system of relating info to the players is always lacking, thus giving the appearance of "hiding in their tower" as you put it, that's always been a problem, and still is. Frankly I suspect they got majorly overworked went into "oh crap" mode, especially once the release date was moved and finalized, and didn't have the people on communicating they should have, as those people were probably operating in CB. This is and has always been unacceptable. Get different people for handling CB issues versus open community communication, hire them if you have to, cut back somewhere else. Thankfully it's not as bad as it was in the Emmert Era, where he flat out said stuff wrong, made jokes, then later wondered why people were angry, but it's still not equal to a team like say Fallen Earth or I suspect, the people EA/Bioware will put on tOR.

I just felt the need to state my own position, and refute some of the blatently self-serving points of your post. They are not "out to get us" or "screw us over" if anything they just pewed the scrootch on this one, which is why I'm still disappointed, and still expected better.

Yeah...it bugs me. Granted SOME of those people will be CoH players, and I'm OK with that, but many will not. At this point, even if our access started in the next day or two, it would feel pretty "token" assuming GR is going to keep it's 08/17 release date (I'm starting to wonder, at this point). I probably won't mess with it, and just wait for launch. If they'd wanted it to mean a good deal, they'd have had to do it back in June or early July not less than a month before the game goes live, also the fact they mentioned it on the French forums and not ours is fairly telling...but then again, the Euros have always been getting information on features before it was ever posted to us...

*Nod* That's pretty much exactly where I am then. Nice to see we're mostly all on the same page.

While I sort of agree with how you feel, (as I posted above you) I also don't think jumping down the Dev/Community people's throats is warrented AT THIS POINT until we hear something else directly from them, which is possibly unlikely given past queries of this nature, (though this being so close to the end, maybe so). If you went into it, and only bought the time expecting that, I feel sort of sorry for you, and while I understand how you feel, I also feel that doing it purely for the CB access was probably an unwise idea.

Sorry. I think I took that personally without meaning to. I agree with you that in general, that's true, I've seen it a lot myself, and I guess I'm worried I might be perceived to fall into that camp, which I most certainly do not, as I'm not particularly angry at the Devs or petulantly going to quit or anything, just that I'm disappointed.

Note: This is why I phrased my reply as I did, though I figured the inevitable response would follow, and frankly, I have a fairly amazing track record, I'm not arcanaville, whom I'm sure has been in CB since about day 5, but I worked my butt off in every CB I was in...except I passed on i10 because it was all Rikti storyline stuff, and didn't stay closed for more than 2 weeks, and not much was going on.

I'm not surprised to see this post however, it's pretty much required on the CoH forums, ironically, I'm normally the one making it.

Right. Again, I'm not really that up in arms about it...too much. Honestly I hope they learn from this, and never try one of these "loyalty" programs again (because obviously a lot of us aren't that greatful/satisfied with it right?) OR if they do, at least spell stuff more clearly. Don't bring up "tiers" without explaining what the "tiers" mean, or what significance they have. Don't guarantee something that (again we don't know for sure yet, and I'm willing to wait a few more days before I worry overly) ends up coming off as a bit "token" in the end. Sure I know they're busy. If this is a standard CoH beta, stuff is probably only half done, even at this point (not a knock against anyone, that's just how the beta's go, and it all tends to turn out OK in the end, or within a month or so of going live).

It's just disappoining is all, as I expected better.