Pax__

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've yet to see one person offer up a reason NOT to allow a cosmetic nod to buying early at full price,

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you been actually reading the posts or just spinning (as you accuse others of) just those parts that support your worldview?

[/ QUOTE ]
"Because we want to accuse you of being a greedy, self-centered entitlement-obsessed prig" is not a reason.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*snippage*

[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, bad form ... at least my links were work-safe ... O_O

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm... yeah, I didn't think it was that bad, but you may have a point thar. I will edit!

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks. ^_^

And for the record, I sought a second opinion on that ... she agreed, it was just over the line into NSFW territory. O_O

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WAIT!



We can has cheeseburger?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if you have pants, and are wearing them.

Sorry, it's Troy's fault about that rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

No fair! We Triumphites take great pride in our pantslessness!

I am calling for an end to this discrimination against we, the haberdasherly-challenged!

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm...

A haberdasher makes hats, not pants.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, a haberdasher makes nothing ... but sells ALL sorts of men's clothing accoutrements. Cufflinks, ties, socks, belts, undergarments, wallets, gloves, shirts, coats, pants ... if it's men's clothing, a haberdasher sells it. Don't believe me? Well, check for yourself ...!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah...

But in the 14th century, men's clothing meant hats!

[/ QUOTE ]
And codpieces ... lord almighty, the things some men will wear over their ... uh ... "thing".

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't compare to the mighty <snip>

[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, bad form ... at least my links were work-safe ... O_O

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WAIT!



We can has cheeseburger?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if you have pants, and are wearing them.

Sorry, it's Troy's fault about that rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

No fair! We Triumphites take great pride in our pantslessness!

I am calling for an end to this discrimination against we, the haberdasherly-challenged!

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm...

A haberdasher makes hats, not pants.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, a haberdasher makes nothing ... but sells ALL sorts of men's clothing accoutrements. Cufflinks, ties, socks, belts, undergarments, wallets, gloves, shirts, coats, pants ... if it's men's clothing, a haberdasher sells it. Don't believe me? Well, check for yourself ...!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah...

But in the 14th century, men's clothing meant hats!

[/ QUOTE ]
And codpieces ... lord almighty, the things some men will wear over their ... uh ... "thing".

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think alot of those feeling ripped off are the same ones who are angry about vet rewards, or have the entitalment attidue.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Maybe if we just keep chanting the words "angry" and "entitled" it will stick...."

I didn't see what was angry or entitled about supporting buying incentives, especially when they don't in any fashion interefere with any other incentives.

But I think it's cute that people are trying so hard to avoid having to think about it in any terms that don't involve a simple-minded generalization.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's a simple-minded generalization for you:

Anyone complaining they're not getting bribed enough to stick with the game at this point is a greedy schmuck.

That should be clear enough, yes? Certainly more honest than begging for "buyer's incentives".

[/ QUOTE ]
Here's anotehr one for you:

Anyone who grossly mischaracterises "Hey, um, remember us? the guys who bought your stuff way back when, thus enabling you to be paid (and clothed, and fed,and housed) betwixt then and now ...? Could we, um, maybe have a token shiny-bit or two, now that you're just giving half of the game away to people?" as being complaining that we're not being bribed enough, is a low-intelligence, no-account, worthless troll.

There; that should feel about as offensive to you, as your gross mischaracterisation feels to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

At this point, any additional freebies they give out will go to everyone. I highly doubt they'd give a whole new freebie to "people who paid" while giving nothing more to those that didn't. That just doesn't make any sense.

That said, we are all getting a bunch of other stuff. Debt wipe, Prestige and some "secret" feature.
What exactly IS it you're asking for? I just don't get the gripe.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure it does.

As Emnity has pointed out: they want to encourage people to "buy early, buy often". An incentive to do so, or at this very after-the-fact juncture reward for having done so, makes 100% perfect sense.

As for what I'm alsking for? Those people who, in their account management screen, have an entry for COV and an entry for COH (or, an entry for a full-version GVE) ... get some minor token of apppreciation, for having been an "early adopter" of their products.

Not just now, but EVER. (Hey, if someone had just COH, gets access, and decides they want the GVE goodies ... why not encourage them to buy the FULL version, rather than just a "goodies code" ... by dangling an extra badge in front of them?)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
WAIT!



We can has cheeseburger?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if you have pants, and are wearing them.

Sorry, it's Troy's fault about that rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

No fair! We Triumphites take great pride in our pantslessness!

I am calling for an end to this discrimination against we, the haberdasherly-challenged!

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm...

A haberdasher makes hats, not pants.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, a haberdasher makes nothing ... but sells ALL sorts of men's clothing accoutrements. Cufflinks, ties, socks, belts, undergarments, wallets, gloves, shirts, coats, pants ... if it's men's clothing, a haberdasher sells it. Don't believe me? Well, check for yourself ...!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder why Troy hasn't showed up yet when we mentioned him by name. I wonder if the curse that immediately teleports him into any thread that talks about him has been lifted. Let me try something...

Troy Hickman Troy Hickman Troy Hickman!

Did it work?

[/ QUOTE ]

All apologies. I've been intently working on my Hickman's Zombie Survival Squad picks, and as such, I've been unable to answer the Hick-Signal.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a relief. I feared you were part of the leaving the City deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, for that to happen, I would've had to actually have been a part of something...

[/ QUOTE ]
Does "the collective nightmares of far too many forumites" count as "something" ...? Because I'm pretty sure you're a part of that ...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think alot of those feeling ripped off are the same ones who are angry about vet rewards, or have the entitalment attidue.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Maybe if we just keep chanting the words "angry" and "entitled" it will stick...."

I didn't see what was angry or entitled about supporting buying incentives, especially when they don't in any fashion interefere with any other incentives.

But I think it's cute that people are trying so hard to avoid having to think about it in any terms that don't involve a simple-minded generalization.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's a simple-minded generalization for you:

Anyone complaining they're not getting bribed enough to stick with the game at this point is a greedy schmuck.

That should be clear enough, yes? Certainly more honest than begging for "buyer's incentives".

[/ QUOTE ]
Here's anotehr one for you:

Anyone who grossly mischaracterises "Hey, um, remember us? the guys who bought your stuff way back when, thus enabling you to be paid (and clothed, and fed,and housed) betwixt then and now ...? Could we, um, maybe have a token shiny-bit or two, now that you're just giving half of the game away to people?" as being complaining that we're not being bribed enough, is a low-intelligence, no-account, worthless troll.

There; that should feel about as offensive to you, as your gross mischaracterisation feels to me.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Let me turn this whole question around on you:

Why NOT offer an incentive to those who actually own a copy of both halves of the game?

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually do take offense to calling me not bright and point of fact I have worked in customer service for a while now.

[/ QUOTE ]
I feel bad for your customers, then. No, seriously, I do - you've missed a huge part of good customer service.


[ QUOTE ]
I have a problem with the people who come here screaming about how NC soft just ripped them off and slapped them across the face because they are just giving full access for free now and now they want a refund.

[/ QUOTE ]
I saw no such screaming. I've done no such screaming. Hyperbole, much?

[ QUOTE ]
What would a CoH 2 bring that couldn't be done with expanding the original?

[/ QUOTE ]
Here's two things:
[*] A newer, more up to date graphics engine.[*] Built-in handles to take care of Power Customisation, and I mean full power customisation, not just Weapons.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't give me that 'customer service' song and dance. It's a bogus argument because it relies on the assumption that NCSoft should 'make it up' to you for doing something wrong or slighting you. They have done neither.

[/ QUOTE ]

Customer service and customer incentives are two different functions.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I would say that Customer Service includes two things:
[*] Corrective Care[*] Incentives

IOW, the disbursement of customer incentives is part of Customer Service. ^_^

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now that I have pondered this for the afternoon, I'm really happy and couldn't be more pleased for NCSoft --- having played or currently playing... Lineage II, Guild Wars, City of Heroes, City of Villains (and its beta), Dungeon Runners (and its beta), Tabula Rasa (and its beta)... I offer my full support (as I pay a year at a time, they know I'm locked in <ha&gt.
I know they will not let my beloved Co* die, and regardless, I'll play till they pull the plug... (years from now).

No doom, just win.

[/ QUOTE ]Auto Assault.

[/ QUOTE ]
While NCSoft was indeed a player in the failure of AA, IMO ... the developer, NetDevil, was the majority player in that fiasco. They bit off more than they could chew, and weren't able to deliver on their promises. All NCSoft did was say "enough is enough - no more money, release SOMEthing so we can recoup SOME of our expenses!!"

You know what NetDevil should have done, IMNSHO?
[*] Pre-mission-design, come up with a set of rules for "X mission, with Y challenge, is worth Z experience points". Apply that to all factions equally;[*] Also, make sure that each level has at least 120% as many missions as would be needed to advance to the next level, due to XP awards;[*] Release with only TWO factions: Biomek, and Mutant;[*] Release with only levels 1-60, and no Ground Zero;[*] Make levels 61-80 a post-release TOP PRIORITY, including Ground Zero. Make sure it works RIGHT, the first bloody time.[*] Release the human faction, after 6 months or so, as a paid expansion.

The "two factions, not three" change makes the game smaller at Launch, and probably a bit less work would be needed as a result; this lets you focus more on what is still being released now.

Chopping out the top 20 levels, and the "massive PvP zone in the middle", does similar, IMO. Between the two, I think the workload (in man-hours) would go down by as much as 25%.

...

None of that matters here, mind you. NCSoft's only part in the AA debacle, IMO, was losing their patience. I see that now, having had the time to step back and look at the situation rationally.

CoX? They can't rush this game - it's already out, a fait accompli ...!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*baffeled & shakes head*

I completely agree with Pax. Those of us who have invested in both CoH, CoV, preorder, DVD collectors editions, GvE pack, etc. should get thrown some sort of bone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? You got what you paid for from each and every one of them. The 'rewards' being given out don't slight you in the least.

[/ QUOTE ]
You miss the point - it's not about beign slighted, it's about NCSoft has an opportunity ... to further cement our collective loyalty to their product.

[ QUOTE ]
Don't give me that 'customer service' song and dance. It's a bogus argument because it relies on the assumption that NCSoft should 'make it up' to you for doing something wrong or slighting you. They have done neither.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong.

Customer Service also includes perks and extras, not just making good on mistakes, errors, and failures.

In Vegas? Regular, high-volume gamblers can get "comp'd" (or "compensated") various thigns - up to and including the whole bill for their room. Not because the casino has done anything wrong ... no, but because they want to encourage customer loyalty.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't forget, Ex wrote something about a reward they cannot share with us yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah as I pointed out, the whole conversation seems moot. I think seeing the "the only reason to object to this is a sense of entitlement" tripe hit my funny bone. Profit > ego.

[/ QUOTE ]
^^ What s/he said ^^^

Especially the bit about the "entitlement" crack pushing buttons.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why should there be a customer incentive when they change marketing models?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you being serious?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes I am,

[/ QUOTE ]
Then you're not being terribly bright, no offense.

You know why the Veteran Rewards program exists? Two reasons. One, encourage people to stick around. Two, reward the people that ALREADY HAD stuck around (that's why it was put into place RETROACTIVELY, you see).

A customer incentive to those of us who put our money where our mouths were way back then, is the same sort of thing: showing gratitude to those of us who stuck with the game in the past. Matter of fact? I've bought CoV twice for a single account - my original pre-order was a vanilla, ordinary COV ... I've since added a CE version. Plus the initial CoH box. Plus the GvE "goodies" code. And yes, right now ...sight unseen ... I am comitting to buying any paid Co* expansion(s) that even remotely interest me, which are offered at a reasonable price. (And I'm still looking for an unused, inexpensive CoH CE code, too!)

[ QUOTE ]
By customer incentive I assume you mean some kind of trinket or gift to those who bought both games before and would now only have to buy one. In that way I dont think that there needs to be customer incentive.

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't work in Customer Service, do you? At least - not anywhere good.

Customer Service, done right, is PRO-active. If there's a problem, for example ...? You don't just fix the problem ... you do MORE than that, you do something extra.

The reason being? You want the customer to come away from the exchange with a GOOD impression of your company. You want to turn a negative experience into a positive one.

Or, in our case, a neutral experience into a positive one. Noone's demanding "I want a whole game's worth of shinies", heck no ... just ... something.

In my case, a badge. Maybe some costume goodies - just a couple.

[ QUOTE ]
Vet awards in in place as gifts to thank those who have stuck with the company,

[/ QUOTE ]
Vet Rewards don't cover this. I know people with thirty-odd month Vet Award badges, who STILL only have CoH.

[ QUOTE ]
That is the customer incentive.

[/ QUOTE ]
That is new customer incentive, not existing customer incentive.

[ QUOTE ]
I have yet to see a reason to hate this particular move to give all players access that was not based in a sense of entitlement.

[/ QUOTE ]
NOONE HATES IT. Matter of fact, I applaud it!

A few of us would like to be recognised, however, for having supported the company with both purchases prior to this "it's all the same game" policy change.

I won't be ticked off if the recognition is not forthcoming ... but I will be disappointed in NCsoft for missing such a slow-moving-target of an opportunity to foster even stronger customer loyalty than Co* already enjoys!

...

Let me turn this whole question around on you:

Why NOT offer an incentive to those who actually own a copy of both halves of the game?

[ QUOTE ]
1. Please, pretty please, now that CoH and CoV are now effectivley merged, can we add the CoV emblems to the Super Group emblem menu?

[/ QUOTE ]
/signed - this would be a great addition. For VGs, if nothing else. ^_^

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So for the people that bought CoH and CoV what do we get.

[/ QUOTE ]
Debt wipe and free prestige.

[/ QUOTE ]

And for those of us who already have both CoH/CoV, have zero debt, and aren't members of Supergroups?

Out of curiosity, what do we get?

-Buxley

[/ QUOTE ]

Time...to start working on your debt badges, make some friends, and...it's a sekrit!

Ex

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, groovy, as long as those customers get a nod.

I think those trying to poo-poo this is a "others getting something free doesn't equate to you being denied something" are being a bit thick with regard to marketing. You do NOT inform a customer base that buying the product early holds no benefits, and you certainly don't hint that simply not spending the money will see the product acquried for free down the line.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's why I think a badge woudl be a good idea - "Supporter (You have demonstrated your eager support for the game with multiple purchases)". Maybe throw in a costume option or two - a chest emblem, for example. Or echoing the chest emblem to your cape (with new cape patterns, if need be).

Anyone who owns a full GvE edition, or both of CoH and CoV as standalone products, gets the badge (and possible associated goodies) - including in the future.

It'd be the right thing to do, NOT because "we're owqed" ... but rather, because it woudl be a smarter move in terms of future marketing.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This pretty much seems to clear the way for CoH on XBox 360.

[/ QUOTE ]
Fixed that for you. The Live Marketplace on the 360 offers the opportunity for people to (in theory) pay for their MMO subscriptions with Microsoft Points ... which means, they could buy prepaid cards at any video game or computer outlet ... no credit card required. Make it a 1200-point fee, that's $16 - enough that even after MicroSoft's inevitable cut, there's still probably a nearly-full, standard MMO fee left for NCSoft.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they play with a 360, how could they go to PI and type "PL MEH"?

[/ QUOTE ]
... with this ...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, let me get this straight from a badge earners standpoint.. does this debt wipe apply to the debt recovery badges?

So say, I have none of the debt badges on a toon. I rack up debt to the 550k cap, then when this wipe is put in place, I login and get the Unwavering (100k recovered) and Unyeilding (400k recovered) badges right away?

[/ QUOTE ]
The debt wipe will not count toward debt badges. Why would it?

[/ QUOTE ]
... because those who're working on said badges might be a bit upset about having half their effort undone?

[ QUOTE ]
Remember back when they added actual enemy groups that were completely new to the 40+ game? I do. I even remember the 40+ story arcs being added. I'm sure you do also.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes I do - in Issue 7. (I also play Villains, and my ONLY 40+ character is a villain, so far.)

[ QUOTE ]
I keep seeing people laud the last year of development. I am not seeing it. Where are the new zones for the core user base of PVE people. Where is the new content for people like myself that actually LIKE the last 10 levels of the game?

[/ QUOTE ]
Revamped Faultline (for levels 15-25).

Revamped RCS-->RWZ (for levels 35-50), including the Pylon/Mothership raid (for level 50, and SKed 40+).

Revamped Hamidon encounter/raid (for level 45-50.

LRSF and STF (for level 45-50, IIRC).

Coming soon: Ouroboros TFs, missions, and flashback (for levels 25-50).

[ QUOTE ]
I loathe NCsoft. Every single game they touch focuses on loot and PVP. Guess where we've been focusing the past 6 issues.

[/ QUOTE ]
... you do realise, NCSoft has been part of CoX from before there was an Alpha test, right?

[ QUOTE ]
The "old" CoH staff didn't keep repeating the same tired canned paragraphs and sentences. I LIKED the occasional "unprofessional" remark from States, et al.

[/ QUOTE ]
Other than statesman ... the "old" crew and the "new" crew are one and the same.

The only thing that is changing is, the Cryptic logo and name will no longer be attached to the City of ___ franchise.

.... heh? Oh, and: [ BAB] POST FASTER!!! [/BAB]

Edit: First after a redname. ^_^

[ QUOTE ]
As far as keyboards go...

...it'd be awfully time-consuming to compose sentences with a controller.

[/ QUOTE ]
There was a link in my response to the Keyboard question. Follow it ... it's a keyboard that attaches to the 360's controller (wireless or otherwise), and has most of the keys of a full-sized keyboard - ALL of them that relate to sending text. ^_^

[ QUOTE ]
...oh, God, I just imagined Atlas Park broadcast chat over Live headsets. AAAAAH NOOOOOO GOD NO

[/ QUOTE ]
Probably, if voice comms were added, they'd be "team-mates only" ... or maybe also, a channel for each Supergroup.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This pretty much seems to clear the way for CoH on XBox 360.

[/ QUOTE ]
Fixed that for you. The Live Marketplace on the 360 offers the opportunity for people to (in theory) pay for their MMO subscriptions with Microsoft Points ... which means, they could buy prepaid cards at any video game or computer outlet ... no credit card required. Make it a 1200-point fee, that's $16 - enough that even after MicroSoft's inevitable cut, there's still probably a nearly-full, standard MMO fee left for NCSoft.

[/ QUOTE ]

Microsoft is partly behind MUO. I don't see them letting a competiting super-hero MMO on their service.

[/ QUOTE ]
... HALO: sci-fi FPS
... Half-Life: sci-fi FPS
... Timeshifters: sci-fi FPS
... Bioshock: retro-sci-fi FPS
... Quake 4: sci-fi FPS
... John Woo Presents Stranglehold: action-cinema FPS
... Lost Planet: Extreme Condition: sci-fi FPS
... Turok: sci-fi FPS
... Turning Point: Fall of Liberty: alternate history FPS

Next to all that overlapping-of-genre ... what's a mere two Comics-inspired MMOs? Or heck, three, if DCO went to the 360 as well. Compared to NINE FPS games, six of them through-and-through "science fiction" in nature ... I gotta say, two or three super-hero MMOs is no big deal.

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't microsoft require all games made for the 360 not require the a HDD? CoH can't fit on a DVD.

[/ QUOTE ]
I honestly don't know. But with the HDD becoming cheaper and cheaper (and/or bigger ... *gazes happily on his black-case Elite console*), if there is such a policy ... it may not survive for very much longer.

[ QUOTE ]
All PS3 have HDDs and can use a keyboard and mouse out the box.

[/ QUOTE ]
Keyboard and mouse? Why would you need them - seriously? My Xbox360 controller has ... let's see, two triggers, two shoulder buttons, a D-pad (four more buttons), the Back button and the Start button.

Then, there's this device, which is a partial keyboard (basically, sans Function keys and Numberpad). It links directly to the controller, too. And that's not counting the two analog thumbsticks, AND the buttons available by pressing them "in", either.

So I don't see that a keyboard-and-mouse pairing is required. Granted, such an arrangement might be better for CoH2, but ... *shrug*

...

Oh, and? My Elite console has a USB port in the back. ^_^ Someone could, if it were built right, put out a Keyboard-and-mouse combination unit. ^_^