PRAF68_EU

You expeciting the devs to come right out and say "yes, we deliberatly designed the bane spiders to be worse at everything than the other SoAs"?!

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I'm not saying they're built for teamplay, I'm just curious if the Devs have stated either way, like they did with the 10 base ATs in the manuals.

No worries, I'm an [censored] sometimes anyway

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Banes aren't designed for team play. Crabs, Night Widows and Fortunatas bring more to teams as well as being better solo.

The is no unresistable damage done by players in PvE. If there was unresistable damage you would be able to destroy things not intended to be destroyed, or only by certain powers, like fires and oil slicks.

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that would be great Starscream, save for the fact i tried that and while it "WORKS" it is very flawed because you open with your strongest ranged which tends to be an AOE which then drags a load of foes towards you, wow your placates gonna be awesome in stopping one from hitting you just in time for the other 4-5 to stamp you into the floortiles lol


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Indeed.

When you have NPC banes attacking the player, there are usually lots of banes and few players, so there is a good chance that the banes will get a knockdown on a player.

When you have player banes attacking NPCs there are usually few players and lots of mobs, so the chance of the banes getting KBs on a significant number of mobs is low. The KB probability is too low on bane spider attacks.

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They are a weak corr with an AS.

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Edited for accuracy. Suped up they aint.

It would be a shame, but I'm afraid you might be right.

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General opinion seems to be that "Banes are fine".

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Yes. They are fine. They play quite happily and you can have fun with them. What they are not, is balanced with the other SoA. If you had only played a bane, you would natuarly be completly oblivious to the issues.

Give how rude some people where to BAB when he did come over it's not suprising he hasn't been back.

Control is certainly an alterative to shields when it comes to defense. However, if you have WAW Grenade or Tox Grenade you have to redraw the rifle. And under the new system redraw does slow your attack rate (ok so it always did on some powers, but officially it wasn't supposed to, but now it is).

If you are going to use the rifle I would pick up Pummel at level 1 instead of Bash. 66% chance of mag 3 stun. That will keep you alive in close quarters.

However, now the PPP mace redraw is fixed you can pick up Web Envelope at level 41. Immob is great when your ranged defense is considerably higher than your melee.

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Night Widows are over powered?

Data?

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They can basically live at the def soft cap. And they get KB protection. They beat SR stalkers in that respect.

On the other hand, they don't get the +20% hp that banes do.

Not nesasserally overpowered, but seems more effective than Banes.

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If you read the comments of the testers, you can see that banes still perform well in solo (and in teams), despite the doubled recharge of placate (44s now, I red). They are fragile against bosses, as all defensive ats, but they deal enough damages to survive.
I think that it's the way the devs conceived it : not the toughest at, but with a frequent placate (20s, at the beginning, which gives 7s with haste, IOs and set bonuses) which permits rather high damages (melee and ranged).
If 44s (14s with haste, IOs and set bonuses) is finally too long, they'll just reduce it, I think.

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I've no doubt this is true. Banes are fine taken on thier own, better than a stalker in a team situation. They just suffer in comparison to Night Widows. You could take from this that the truth of the matter is Night Widows are overpowered, but no one like to call for an AT to be nerfed.

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Now that's out of the way, anybody else got thoughts on this?

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I have made a number of suggestions, buy a certain person sees fit to respond to any constructive suggestion I make with insults, without coming up with any ideas of thier own.

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You'll insult and slag people off

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In what post have I slagged anyone off? You on the other hand...

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but then start crying when fire gets aimed back at you

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Er, who's crying. I'm loving this!

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no matter how often and how thoroughly your arguments are debunked

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So far, number of arguments debunked by Syracuse = zero. In fact I'm not seeing any arguments or evidence, ony insults.

If you can kill your foe with a crtitical -> placate -> critical combo it is excellent. However against tougher foes placate hurts DPS.

Consider a much simplfied example. You have an attack that does 100 points and 150 on a critical.

You cycle it with placate. Avarage damage per attack = 75 points, since placate does zero.

Or you replace placate with an attack that does 60 points of damage. Avarage damage per attack = 80 points. Your DPS is better.


This is a hugely oversimplified example of course, and with some attacks palacate will improve DPS, but it's not a simple calculation.

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because they'd lack the raw damage or consistent DPS.

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Really? This is new. Are you now claiming that Banes do significantly less damage than Night Widows? Do you have any eveidence for that claim?

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Key word: better. BETTER.

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Key word: equal. EQUAL.

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Having a little extra defense while your core purpose

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What core purpose would this be then?

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then you've got the balls to face up to them again when your accusations are trumped.

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Since that hasn't happened, I wouldn't know.

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slag someone off

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I don't slag people off. I leave that to people who can't come up with any proper arguments or evidence. I might help people to make themselves look stupid occasionally, but then, nobody is perfect.

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You're a bloody coward, Praf.

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True. I don't like hights, would never consider extreme sports, or joining the army.

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Which is linked to their survivability.

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A defense buff does not allow them to do anything better than any other SoA.

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You've, amazingly, agreed with and contradicted the same sentence.

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Or are you suggesting that there is no connection between suvivability and defense?

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A defense buff does not allow them to do anything better than any other SoA.

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No, but it would make them equally as good.

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kudos to your selective reading skills.

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It's easy, I just don't bother to reply to anything uninteliagable or clear nonsense.

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The big issue with Banes appears to be their survivability outside of groups, and against stronger foes

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No, the big issue with Banes is why would anyone choose to play one when Crabs and Night Widows can do all the same stuff better.

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the lack of any significant role. They can't tank suitably, they can't DPS suitably, they can't buff suitably. They need a rethink, not a band-aid.

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I sort of agree, but given that the DPS is much the same as Night Widows, if thier suvivability was comparable they would be able to do the same job equally well.

It's far to late into the issue's development to do a major rethink. You can't make major changes, such as increasing base damage, without risking breaking Crab Spiders.

At this stage a band-aid is the best we can hope for.

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I couldn't find any.


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That's because you weren't talking about Bane Spiders in that thread.



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Explain Gohan's statement then.

Or have a go at him for misrepresenting you.

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Given how rapidly bosses attack, and how quickly they can do damage


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I think you may have me confused with someone else. I have never argued that Banes where incapable of handling bosses or EBs, or anything else in the game. Give me a few insps and I could solo any EB in the game with any AT and powerset (ok, maybe not the Jade Spider). CoX is a very easy game.

My only issue with banes is there is nothing they do better than the other SoAs. At one time they could placate better than anyone. Now they can't even do that, so I have thown out a few constructive suggestions. Maybe 6% res wouldn't be much help agains an EB. Maybe it would be far to much against half a dozen minions. Maybe someone else could actually do some calculations and come up with some numbers instead of slagging people off.

I read this post by Gohan

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ummm no
for all the reasons Syracuse stated

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So I went back and read the post by Syracuse to see what reasons he game that Bane spiders couldn't possibly recieve a 6% buff to S/L resistance.

And I couldn't find any.

All I saw was a diatribe against people who solo.

Hence my comment.

And increase from 30% to 36% would be a small buff.

An increase from 7.5% to 13.5% against the most common damage types is a significant buff.

I never claimed the nerf to Placate was a "massive gaping hole", just another knock to a set of powers which was already not as good as anything comparable.

In terms of damage, the change to placate makes little difference. The bonus for the following attack is less than 50%, so in terms of sustained damage you would be better making another attack rather than placating.

The placate nerf hurts suvivability is all, a relatively small buff would counter it.

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it would matter because being a good team buffer doesn't help when ur soloing relentless.

I'm sure even the incompetent devs at NC NorCal can make a build which works for people who want to team, AND those who don't.

Right now i'm not seeing much evidence of that.

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having mind link AND their scalar for manuevers would make them the best veat team buffer and raise their game up to at least the levels of the fortunata, NW and crab making it a defensive powerhouse both solo and teamed

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I agree, it would push banes to far the other way, and you would then have to go back and nerf something else like Bane Spider Armor Upgrade. Probably not the most elagent solution, but Mind Link would fit with the Bane Spider plot.

There are actually a great many things that could be done to bring Banes back up to par.

The armour changes I suggested earlier, raising S/L resistance by 6% would just about do it.

Or replace Web Cocoon with Arachnos Melee Shield: +7.5% melee def and mag 6 KB protection. This would make defenses more comparable with Night Widows.

Or even give Bash the same chance to stun as Pummel.

Bane Spiders aren't that weak. You could solo one as is and still not have too much difficulty. The only issue is they are not as strong as the other SoA options.

I would like to have at least one psi attack to use on targets with high resistance to lethal damage.

CT: Offensive is for the to hit debuff resistance, not the +acc.

I'm uncertain about Placate and Smoke Grenade.