PRAF68_EU

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I just thought your model was incomplete

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All mathematical models are incomplete, if it was complete it wouldn't be a model, it would be the real thing.

The trick to maths modeling, is to know which factors can be safely ignored. In this case the taunt from RttC can be reasonably ignored, since it's duration is so short (less than 10%) compared to any other taunt ability. (That's why I chose WP for my comparison in the first place, it's the only tanker primary without an effective taunt aura).

Insanitor is right in both regards, Dwarfs would benefit greatly from gauntlet (again, I suggested it on the keldian forums).

I have a degree in Maths, Physics and Astrophysics (as well as an advanced degree in Multimedia Computing). I teach A level Physics and Mathematics. I think my maths is legit.

A "generic" set, that can be slotted into any power, would seem to be the best idea.

It could have endrec, recharge and acc, plus a global.

LOL

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Flight, super speed and super jump at lvl 14 with no slots will get you to the other side of the stage with full end. Teleport will not.

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Yes it will, depending on the size of the zone and slotting (you might try turning your toggles off). Whatever, it is much much much faster (and in more safety)than Fly, so the higher end cost is to balance the higher speed. It aint broke.

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Flight, super speed and super jump do not require you to set up keybinds in order to function the way you want them to, teleport does

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True, but it just takes very little effort to set up the keybind, so I don't see a problem.

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This power should make you difficult to track, fast and effective,

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It does. It just takes a little more skill to use.

Basically, it boils down to this: If you don't like teleport, you don't have to take it.

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2) The more people ask the same thing, the more our game makers will begin to think "hey, these guys are really keen on this, maybe we should give it a try"


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Old American saying: "if it aint broke don't try fix it". Most of us would rather the the developers spent thier valuble time developing new content and fixing things that are broke.

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Not true you just need to move slower mobs will still follow

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Don't know what game you have been playing.

No, no they won't.

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4 taunt aura ticks

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Wich I have already established count for zip on the WP aura, since the mobs don't stay taunted.

Basically WP taunt aura = no taunt aura.

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Possibly depending on how carefuly/ quickly you move

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No. The CE taunted mobs will still be taunted unless someone else taunts them off you. The WP aura Taunte mobs will not remain taunted if you move away from them. It is quite simple WP aura = irelevent.

WP, to taunt 16 mobs.

T=0 Taunt 1, You have 5 mobs
T=4 (estimated, depends on slotting) Taunt 2, you now have 10 mobs
T=8 Taunt 3, you now have 15 mobs

The last 1, you can keep in melee range and hold with your aura.

Total 8 seconds.

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I haven't noticed this as it hasn't happened.

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What do you think happens to all the aggro when you tank faceplants then? They certainly don't stand around looking at you corpse.

It's happened alreight. You may not have noticed it, but I bet your squishy team mates did.

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About Icetanks theoretically being the only tank worth having in the team as they hold aggro best.

Some teams have been perfectly safe with a willpower scrapper in front herding.

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I wasn't saying that's what i really though. I was saying that if you applied the same logic that "I'll only team with a tank with taunt because it's the only way to be sure", Then you also have to say "I will only team with a tank with taunt and CE, sice it's the only way to be sure". I don't think anyone would dispute that Taunt+CE is better than taunt alone, and only a fool would dispute that Taunt+CE > Taunt+any other aura.

The bayonet animation would work with a cattle prod.

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I think when we say 3 issues per year, what we really mean is 12 months/3...as in an issue every 4 months. We're not really paying much attention to where things fall in the calender year, just how much time passes between issues. That's the goal at least.

Are we hitting that goal? At this particular moment, not really. Chalk that up to forming a new company, moving into a new studio, and hiring/training a lot of new people. When you go from being a very tight-knit team of 15 people rapidly churning out issues and snatching up all of the low hanging fruit we can get our hands on to a much larger studio working on very large systems and the type of content that takes the longest to develop...things tend to slow down a bit.

I don't think we're that far behind though. If you look at the amount of things added to the game since the beginning of the year rather than just counting the issue numbers between January 1st and today, there's actually a good chunk of content that you guys have gotten without any additional costs. Probably close to 1 1/2 to 2 issues of content already. There was the mid-issue update for 11 and Issue 12, while not a great deal of new long-term content, was in reality quite a bit of work. We kind of went into I12 thinking it was going to be a smaller issue, but when everything was said and done and we looked back on everything we'd put in there, we realized how much work had really gone into it.

Having more people on the team is kind of a double-edged sword. We've found ourselves setting out to do things that we would have never considered before because we simply didn't have the people to do it. Now that we do, we're really reaching for some pretty high hanging fruit. Player created missions is only one of the things you guys have heard about...but there are some other big things also being worked on as well. Things that haven't been announced yet.

Chew on that for a while. We've announced player created missions. What do you think we might be working on that we didn't feel comfortable announcing yet?



All in all, I feel like we're starting to hit our stride, and we're still looking to expand the team even more to further increase our capacities...bear with us. I assure you, it's just as frustrating for us to have these long spans without new shiny content to keep you guys happily playing the game, but we really are doing the best we can.


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-BAB

source

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Another factor to take into account is how much aggro can a tank survive?

A Fire/Fire tank generates a lot of aggro simply by virtue of doing a lot of AOE damage. If they taunt as well, they may well faceplant as they don't have the highest suvivability, and a faceplanted tank is about the worst possible thing for team survival.

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No, Firetanks can usually then RotP.

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When the fire tank faceplants all thier aggro is imediatly transfered to the rest o the team, so by the time they have used RotP the team is wiped.

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I have never had that...I have never seen it transfer to the team!

Tips on impending doom.

Stick RotP on auto, works asap.

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As soon as a character faceplants mobs loose all hate to that character, and so turn and attack the character with the next highest hate level. If there are no other taunting types around that will be the character who has most recently done the most damage to them - so the AOE blaster gets hammered.

I'm very suprised you haven't noticed this, its the main cause of cascade team wipes heroeside.

The damage component of RotP helps to get your aggro back quickly, but only to mobs in range. Anything else will have zero hate at the time you rez.

That's just player speculation.

However I know there are a lot of heroes who would like to pound Blue Steel, because of the Clockwork King.

This discussion has caused me to realise a few things:

1) Just how good Taunt enhancments are in CE - I went back and replaced a Slow with an additional Taunt

2) Just how bad a tauntless WP tank would be

3) Roll on powerset proliferation for WP/Spines tanks.

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Yes this also applies to taunts duration/range

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Yes, I included it.

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But I can in effect be in two places at once within that 70 ft

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But no more than 2 places in a 4 second interval. You taunt once, and have to wait around 4 seconds assuming it is slotted with recharges before you can taunt again. If you move at all, your WP aura will no longer be taunting those mobs. In the same 4 seconds CE can taunt in 8 different places, and still have all the mobs affected.

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Here you negate your own arguement with your answer (WP only effective in melee range but tanks can move)


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No, you have failed to understand. If a WP tank moves, the mobs in melee range are not taunted any more because it has a taunt duration of 1.25 seconds. If an Ice tank moves the mobs which are no longer in melee range will continue to be taunted up to 27 seconds later.

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According to my calculations 2 for a WP with taunt 1 for an Ice tank

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Your calculations are way out, unless you assume all 16 mobs are standing within 8 feet of each other, which never happens.

It's 10% for all rikti mobs (apart from monkeys), excluding MS raid defenders, which are 100%. Minions give 1, Lts 2, bosses 3.

There is also 1 for completing any Vanguard mission.

No, not a fairer comparison. Max duration of CE taunt is 27 seconds. You are alowed to slot powers you know. Compared to WP, which even slotted (which you are not actually likely to do) has a maximum duration of about 2.5 seconds i.e. the WP taunt aura is completly useless against mobs not in melee range, so its effects can be realisticaly ignored when trying to manage any large spawn, since you can't possible keep them all in range, whereas CE, with a duration of nearly 30 seconds can easily catch everything within 70 ft: tankers can move around you know.

Using Taunt, it would take the WP tanker at least 8 seconds to bring a 16 mob spawn under control, wheras an Ice tanker can do it in about 2.

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Taunt makes you more effective at holding aggro. End of story.

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Chilling Embrace makes you more effective at holding aggro. Therefore never team with a tank without Chilling Embrace. End of story.

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Another factor to take into account is how much aggro can a tank survive?

A Fire/Fire tank generates a lot of aggro simply by virtue of doing a lot of AOE damage. If they taunt as well, they may well faceplant as they don't have the highest suvivability, and a faceplanted tank is about the worst possible thing for team survival.

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No, Firetanks can usually then RotP.

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When the fire tank faceplants all thier aggro is imediatly transfered to the rest o the team, so by the time they have used RotP the team is wiped.

I probaly would avoid Tough if you have end probems, As a pool power is has relatively double the endurance cost of a primary or secondary shield.

Another factor to take into account is how much aggro can a tank survive?

A Fire/Fire tank generates a lot of aggro simply by virtue of doing a lot of AOE damage. If they taunt as well, they may well faceplant as they don't have the highest suvivability, and a faceplanted tank is about the worst possible thing for team survival.

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I have both.


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I have both, and Icicles as well, but I wouldn't not team with someone who didn't. It's a fact that CE is a better aggro manager than Taunt though, I know that from experience. The only difference in thier roles is CE is a debuff as well.

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Something said by someone trigger happy with less knowledge in game mechanics.


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there is nothing wrong with my knowledge of game mechanics.

simplified,

Hate = ((1000*taunt duration remaining)+threat level)*base aggro.

All attacks, and being in proximity to the mob increase base aggro, but doing damage even a small about of damage increases it much much more.

For example, CE, slotted for taunt will maintain a constant taunt of about 25.75.

If we suppose you have a base aggro of 1, that will give you a total hate of 26000. Doing even a small amount of damage to the target will increas base hate by at least x10, for 260,000 hate.

If instead of CE we use taunt about once evey 4 seconds, we avarage about 58s duration. This gives around 58,000 hate, which beats CE alone, but not CE + damage.

Of course, taunt+damage will give you the most hate, but given that the levels of hate generated by a typical blaster would be around 4000 on the same scale most of the time the excess hate is wasted, and what is really important most of the time is coverage. Taunt can do really good coverage, but only if skillfully targeted.

An Ice tank with CE but no taunt will be able to hold aggro far more effectively than a WP tank with taunt.

Lets do a little comparison between CE and Taunt:

CE: Max mobs affected: 10, frequency 0.5 seconds

Taunt: Max mobs affected: 5, max frequency, about 4 seconds.


"I refuse to team with any tank wich is not Ice, they are the only tank that can hold aggro efficently, In fact only Ice/ are true tanks".



You know the sort of tanks that loose there aggro to high damage blasters? Those that don't do any damage because they are spamming taunt.

It's not actually poor in accuracy, it is 105% base. however the hit roll requirment means there is a good chance that in a large spawn there will be 1 or 2 mobs not placated.

Every set needs a skippable power...

It's quite simple really. You should never need to have all the toggles in the set on at the same time. I would say no more than 4 out of the 7.

The damage on the damage one is exactly the same as a common damage IO of equal level.

The only thing in BL that might be worth slotting is the acc/dam one.