Olantern

Legend
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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Steelclaw View Post
    Lord Nemesis: Yet another prank call to the Paragon City Bus Administrative Offices telling them of yet another bomb placed on yet another random bus.
    "Do you have Prince Albert in a can? No? Of course not! I, Lord Nemesis, have him! And I shall not release him until you bow before me, pitiful insects ... uh, why did I make this call, again?"
  2. Quote:
    Originally Posted by BlackSun17 View Post
    Puzzled by this comment. Are you saying that you have not liked Mignola's writing on Hellboy (solo since 1996) or BPRD? Frankly, he has built up enough writing credibility with me that I trust where he is going with this.
    Yeah, I have not cared much for his writing, though I will say he's improved a lot over the years, and his plots have been all right throughout, though I've never much cared for the "Hellboy wanders around confusing islands" stuff. In fact, he's to the point now where I think his writing is sometimes up to the level of the art and often up to the level of the plotting (not quite the same as "the writing," though they're related). Yet it's always clear that the writing is secondary to the art.
  3. This sort of thing is why they shouldn't let artists write.

    And I'm saying this as someone who likes Hellboy.
  4. You know what I'll miss from Outbreak? It's the one time in the game when you get to see Crey doing something other than being blatantly villainous. (A Crey guy named [for some reason] Lt. MacReady helps you out briefly, for those who don't remember.) For a faction that's supposedly all about "evil behind a facade," this is the only example of the "facade" part in the entire game.
  5. I've always assumed it's a character who hasn't appeared yet, who will be introduced in the "game finale" arc. With the game going free to play and thus server shutdown becoming somewhat less likely, I don't know what to think.

    One possibility I've considered all along is that the writing team hasn't decided on who the writer is yet, though the more letters get tossed around, the less likely that seems.

    Additional ideas I've considered for the writer's identity include Prometheus (the ego is certainly there) and Nemesis-from-the-past (before he became a disembodied brain). Neither seems all that likely, though.
  6. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Balos View Post
    *bank customer just running around like an idiot*
    I can't believe I only just thought of this after all these years, but wouldn't going to the real bank be a lot more interesting if it were like this? Maybe they'd give out a free toaster to whoever waved his arms in the most ridiculous fashion.
  7. Rock is not my forte, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned Tom Petty's "Running Down a Dream" yet. As an added bonus, it mentions another good driving song, Dell Shannon's "Runaway."
  8. I agree with some of the other posters here. The copy editing is often fairly lousy.
  9. I'm not rerolling anything; I almost never do that.

    However, now that scrappers are finally getting Energy Aura, I will be making a new version of Djinniman (after more than six years!) on my current home server, this time as a fiery melee/energy aura scrapper. I only made him as a tank because it seemed like a "safe" choice for a new player all those years ago, and Invulnerability never seemed to fit a character who was supposed to be magically hard to grasp rather than resilient. (SR never seemed to fit conceptually, either.)

    I'll probably make some new characters, too.
  10. Olantern

    Identity Crisis

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Henri View Post
    Well, the cavalry are a fast moving force of devastating strength and damage, so i'm thinking he'd be a high dps AT rather than a high defensive one. Something like a ##/FA brute or scrapper maybe, BS/FA brute might be fun?
    Broadsword would also enable you to use the Valkyrie sword, which not only would look pretty good with that costume but also resembles a cavalry sabre. I think there are also some swords available for katana that would work for that look.

    Continuing with the idea of the cavalry moving around the battlefield fast, I probably would go with superspeed as a travel power, and I might consider powers that make him move and act faster, such as Quickness or Lightning Reflexes, which would suggest either SR or electric armor as defensive choices.
  11. Okay, I'll play.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr_Squid View Post
    1: Is the lore of this game significant enough to be a reason to subscribe?

    2: Is the lore of this game fundamentally broken? That is to say, contradictary, messy, and poorly written?

    3: Do you like the current direction the lore is taking?

    4: Would you like the development team to spend a significant amount of time fixing all the old lore, even if that meant spending an issue not moving the game's story forward and just patching things up?
    1. No, not alone. Even for someone like me, who pays attention to the stories and usually likes them, they aren't the sole or even primary reason for subscribing. It's a combination of gameplay, visuals, and story.

    2. The lore is sometimes contradictory and often messy, but I have rarely found it to be poorly written. I applaud the question for breaking these ideas up. I read a lot of complaints about the backstory that scream, "These writers suck!" when they actually mean, "This new thing contradicts the old stuff!" (Some also scream, "These writers suck!" when they really mean, "I don't like [time travel/alternate universe/giant dinosaur/alien invasion/what-have-you] stories." There have been more and more such people in the superhero/comics world ever since comics began tearing themselves apart in the '80's. Personally, I don't think every superhero story needs to have the overwrought personalities of Watchmen or the emotional hooks of The Incredibles or reflect manga rather than western comics or whatever, but I'm starting to think I'm in the minority.)

    3. Speaking of personal taste, I'm not a fan of the Praetorian storyline. Its guiding theme seems to be, "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem!" I'm just not comfortable with that notion, especially in a fairly lighthearted setting of superheroic adventure. Further, while I understand Praetoria and Incarnates had to be tied together because they were being sold together, it's a pretty rough marriage. That said, I think the writing team has done a good job of presenting it and making the most of the material they were given to work with.

    4. This question is akin to, "Would you have a issue of just bug fixes?" Like that question, it overlooks that the writing is an ongoing process integrated with other aspects of design. For what it's worth, I don't think any of the issues with the backstory are serious enough to warrant something this radical, or even to warrant in-game changes, for the most part. There are inconsistencies and rough patches, but I don't think they're as game-breaking as most people who comment on the story here like to argue.

    I would, however, suggest that the way the story bible is maintained from here on out change. Despite repeated player arguments to the contrary, there is a story bible. Former chief writer Manticore has quoted from it extensively, and CoH comics writer Troy Hickman has described its appearance. However, having seen the quotation made by Manticore (it was about the Minions of Igneous and explained why they are called that), I see a significant issue with it, one that explains most of the inconsistencies and other issues I've seen lately: it isn't being maintained consistently.

    The story bible itself, or an outline the writing team comes up with in a meeting, is just a preliminary document. The actual in-game story that gets delivered may differ from it. When that happens, the story bible needs to be updated to reflect what actually went into the game. This is not a novel. There is not a single person who can resolve all story conflicts and provide final answers on all questions. If a statement on the story gets made in-game, it needs to go into the central document. The other side of all this is that the writing team needs to review the material before writing, rather than just going ahead with the ideas that came out of the meeting with the art and mission design teams. It's pretty much that simple.

    Finally, all the player screaming over lore should realize something. No one paid to deal with this stuff as a work for hire will ever have the investment in it that a fan does.
  12. I was commenting on the Atlas Park revamp in the beta forum and decided most of these comments belonged here rather than there.

    I like Atlas Park's resdesigned buildings; they're "futuristic," which fits a superhero story nicely. However, I think it might have been a better design choice to go with a more Art Deco feel to Atlas Park's look, both to distinguish it from Nova Praetoria and the Imperial City and to highlight the importance the Deco period (post World War I through roughly the 1950's) had in the development of superheroes. This has even been worked into the Paragon City background; read through the old Paragon Times article "Rudolf Augustus Seifert and the Birth of Heroes."

    For examples of the sorts of buildings I have in mind, think about some of the tentacle-draped towers in First Ward. If you're looking for visual reference, I suggest Rediscovering Art Deco U.S.A. by Barbara Capitman, Michael D. Kinerk, and Dennis W. Wilhelm. If you want something where you can go see the actual buildings, Deco by the Bay by Michael F. Crowe focuses specifically on the San Francisco/Northern California area. (These may be out of print, unfortunately. I'm just going by what's on my bookshelf.)

    I realize, however, that the decision to go with a more International/Postmodern design might not have been purely aesthetic. I imagine that once you've got the technology to make a reflective windowpane, it's a lot easier to model a building made entirely of reflective windowpanes than to create an Chrysler Building-like skyscraper, with all its fiddly little projections, individual windows, tiered forms, and ornamental sculptures. It's one of the same reason you don't see Art Deco buildings being built in the real world these days: ornamentation is too expensive and time-consuming.

    Assuming this is the first of several zone visual redesigns, here is how I'd handle them were I the Chief Architect of Paragon:

    Atlas Park: well-maintained Art Deco cityspace. The original heart of the city.
    Kings Row: industrial/lower-class brick residences. Basically, the zone as it exists now, but with more impressive factories, perhaps some of them shuttered and showing signs of neglect.
    Steel Canyon: extremely modern, "downtown" skyscraper design. The current heart of the city. Since Atlas Park ended up with this look instead, maybe you should make Steel Canyon the "deco land" instead. (For the sort of design that might work for this idea, see the '90's Superman: the Animated Series. While it isn't up to the level of the Batman series in terms of character and prop design, the buildings are interesting, done in a style the art directors described as "ocean liner deco.")
    Skyway City: poorly-maintained '60's and '70's international style buildings and extensive freeway system. Basically, the urban landscape I remember from my childhood (born in the Midwest in 1975).
    Talos Island: postmodern buildings with a neoclassical motif.
    Dark Astoria (included because the buildings are still intact): historic neighborhood. Similar to Founder's Falls or even parts of the Rogue Isles (but better maintained).
    Brickstown: It has be made of brick. This one could probably be just a polishing of the existing design.
    Founder's Falls: historic district. It's good now; my only suggestion would be to include some shopping and to integrate the parks with the cityscape better.
    Peregrine Island: modern industrial park. Another postmodern cityscape, but not as built up as the mainland zones. I've seen pictures of the Paragon Studios building. Think that, only more fanciful. The Portal Corporation building itself is fine and should serve as a cue for the rest of the zone.

    A final thought: I've noticed that much of the newest in-game architecture has a very Californian feel to it- lots of postmodern buildings, wide streets clearly designed for heavy automobile traffic, built-up stairways and ramparts at sidewalk level, pseudo-adobe structures (I'm thinking of Four Gables here), and, oddly for a city in Rhode Island, structures that wouldn't stand up under snow (I'm thinking of that neat roof garden thing in new Atlas Park). The Imperial City looks a lot like San Diego to me, while the new Atlas Park reminds me of downtown San Jose. That's fine, but it shouldn't be the sole type of city design we see. Paragon City should represent a mix of architectural styles.

    This could mean the art team has to take a field trip to Boston's North End to work on Founder's Falls or Chicago to work on skyscrapers (I find the buildings on Michigan Avenue much more interesting and representative of the world of skyscrapers than Manhattan's. It is the Birthplace of the Skyscraper, after all. It also presents lots of ideas that would suit a superhero setting well. Look at a picture of the Carbide and Carbon Building [which now houses the Hard Rock Cafe on its ground floor] and tell me that isn't a supervillain's headquarters.)

    Thanks for reading. I love architecture, especially in a story context, and could go on about this stuff all day.
  13. Wow. I'm surprised so many people saw this coming. I'd assumed from day one that Hamidon was under Tyrant's control, not the other way around.

    I'm in the minority of people who loves this turn of events. Tyrant is a political polemic who was already dated before Going Rogue was released. Hamidon is self-absorption and fanaticism made incarnate (incarnate pun- haha!). (Think about how i0 Hamidon treated his "love" in the Terra arc.) I know which one I consider a more apt foe for superhuman, supermoral protagonists.
  14. This is one of the few things on this forum that has literally made me laugh out loud:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
    John Q. Public wants to see Captain Kirk of the starship Enterprise, and he's not going to be up for sitting through Mr. Midshipman Kirk, Lieutenant Kirk, Kirk and the Hotspur, Kirk During the Crisis, and Kirk and the Atropos just to get there.
    I was hoping that the next Star Trek movie would be Admiral Kirk in the West Federation.

    In an unrelated matter, does anyone know if they ever made any more of those Hornblower movies with whathisname, who later appeared as a very strange Mr. Fantastic, after the ones based on Hornblower and the Hotspur?
  15. Neato. Lord Nemesis is watching you!

    I've always liked Stikfas; it's a pity you don't see them around much any more. Too challenging to put together, I'd guess. They always gave me trouble, anyway, especially separating them from the sprue without getting little nubs you have to file off, which then leaves a blemish on the plastic.
  16. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Obscure Blade View Post
    Actually it reminds me of the kind of guys who showed up in Doctor Strange comics. Impractically fancy outfits with multiple layers and parts sticking out all over.
    That is a really good point, and one I hadn't thought of. While I'm pretty sure that wasn't what the art team had in mind, I can fit that into the superhero world. Instead of a "scary, mysterious cult," they are now "weird guys from beyond." I will pretend they are wearing the Funky Collar of Dormammu, the Pants of Pantoom, and the Chest Detail of Ch'Hooognthn, and I will probably like them a lot better. (My dad is a big fan of Dr. Strange, so I'm familiar with this stuff...)
  17. These definitely look as if they were designed for some other game, but they're fine designs. (For those who saw them, I rather preferred Blast_Chamber's.)

    In my opinion, they don't capture the feel of a mystical cult that's a foe of superheroes. The costumes are too spiky, too garish in colors, and too busy, especially considering that these are "mooks" who appear in numbers, not characters we fight one-on-one. Rather, as TrueGentleman noted, they look like someone said, "Let's make a magic faction! That means 'fantasy game art!'"

    All that said, this is certainly different from nearly everything else in the game, both PC- and NPC-wise, so I see players getting a lot of mileage out of it. Personally, I'm particularly happy to see the interesting and underused "coat tails" rig being used for something other than trenchcoats, Arachnos Widows, and formal tailcoats.

    There are two great things about this revamp. First, the devs, through the OCR team, actually paid attention to player complaints, and they paid at the very least lip service to adjusting actual design to respond to them. Second, the players seem to like the designs. Customer loyalty crisis averted!

    My hope is that the devs don't take this positive response as a cue to, say, put the Fifth Column in metallic, purple armor.
  18. I foresee this being worked into a remake of Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea somehow (though that movie may be so far off the radar that even Hollywood doesn't remember it's there to recycle). For those who don't know, the original involved the twin horrors of the Van Allen belts catching fire (for some reason) and Frankie Avalon being a submarine officer.
  19. Best male design .... difficult to choose just one, but I'll go with Nemesis.

    ***

    I see there's a lot of love for Mirror Spirit and Foreshadow. Personally, I think Mirror Spirit has a beautifully done model, but I hate the washed-out color choices, the mismatched textures, and the overly busy design. I would have no idea she has a convoluted anime backstory about changing from good to evil or something (still not real clear on it) if I hadn't read it when City of Hero came out.

    Foreshadow is more interesting in that he appears to be what one would get if one asked Apple Computer to outfit a superhero, but I don't think that's what his look is supposed to convey.

    I wonder if what really appeals to people about these designs is that they're supposed to reflect manga, which I really, really don't care for, personally. Please don't take away from this thread that "the players want everything manga-style!" That's already a strong influence on the art style of several other MMO's, and I'd prefer CoH to remain more unique, for the most part (a manga-faction or two is fine, and I think we have one now in the new Circle of Thorns). Options are fine, but don't discount the value of more classical designs.
  20. Quote:
    Originally Posted by IanTheM1 View Post
    I was under the impression that the introductory Ouroboros arc was also being rewritten so that you exemplar down to go back to the fall of Galaxy City rather than Outbreak or Breakout.
    It just occurred to me for the first time that this would mean that the only way to get the Isolator badge from now on would be to hit that one Contaminated in Recluse's Victory a hundred times.

    Unless (1) the Contaminated show up in the reworked Ouroboros introduction, (2) you can flash back to the "old" Ouroboros introduction, (3) the mechanics of Isolator change, or (4) they come up with something else.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Inazuma View Post
    Actually, according to the creators, the Cats have two castes. The elite (Lion-O, the clerics, etc.) are tailless, while those with tails (the Thunderkittens) are confined to lives of poverty in Thundera's slums with the dogs.

    Combine this with the anti-lizard racism, and Thundera is not a very nice society.
    This (the tails, not the caste society) make me like the idea of a new Thundercats cartoon a lot better. One thing that always drove me crazy was the way the heroes all looked like humans with funny hair and makeup rather than cats, and tails would be a big part of that.

    (The villain designs from the original show, on the other hand, always impressed me.)
  22. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan View Post
    One of the problems I have with the concept is that he seems to be a super-hypocrite. Watching the recent Superman movie, tbere's this awesome s ene where he's floating in space usig his superheaing to hear what lloks like EVERYTHING on Earth, and then when he's sat in a bar being all emo, I'm shouting "surely you can hear some poor sod gettig murdered or tortured somewhere within flying distance, right now, and you're ignoring it, you massive tool?"
    Personally, I don't think it makes a hero a bad guy if he doesn't fix everything, all the time. Yet you're right that there's a disconnect if a character who's supposed to be driven entirely by selflessness ever chooses not to help anyone.

    That aside, Rosa is exactly right; this is a point where you have to suspend your disbelief. Either that, or you have to decide you can't accept the premise and read (or watch) something else. Given how thoroughly that movie got trashed around here, I think you're probably not alone in that regard.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan View Post
    If he's so morally awesome, surely he should just spend every waking hour flying around the planet at superspeed saving people from burning buildigs and cave-ins and murderous spouses etc? Or else he can hear that "my baby! Somebody save my baby, please!" and he chooses to not do so, in which case if he's not really a super-b***tard then he should be either insane or an emotional wreck.

    Eco
    For a good treatment of this issue in a comic, see the first Astro City story, "In Dreams," collected in Life in the Big City. Honestly, though, although I haven't read it myself, I think you'd enjoy Mark Waid's Irredeemable much more. The premise, if you're unaware of it, is that Waid's Superman equivalent becomes a villain, I believe for more or less the reasons you mentioned.
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by That_Ninja View Post
    One thing I've always dreamed of that would be added to this game: Kirby Tech

    [pictures of Celestials and New Gods and something-or-other redacted]

    I have always loved the designs of Jack Kirby's work. If you could incorporate some similar designs into Valkyrie (and some for our characters, *nudge* *nudge*), it could really give off the "God Tech" theme (hey, that's not a bad name.
    I hear about "Kirby dots" and now "Kirby tech" a fair amount. I know comics fairly well, so I know who Kirby was, but I've never really understood what people mean by these terms. Is "Kirby tech" just "circles connected by angled lines," or is there more to it?

    Regardless, more costume parts of whatever kind are always good, so I support this suggestion.

    edit: I see this thread has now become about redesigning Valkyrie. Well, better that than the social implications of Swan's outfit.
  24. Olantern

    Ghost Story

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by docbuzzard View Post
    Ok, in the interest of making this at least peripheral to the topic at hand, has anyone read the Codex Alera stuff from Butcher? Is it worth bothering with?
    I read it just recently.

    It's a fairly typical fantasy series of the last twenty years or so, featuring the usual elements such stories have had: human-scale villain trying to take over things, inhuman "destroy everything" villainous species to provide action sequences, and odd cultures that function as both friend and foe depending on the situation.

    That said, it's quite well-written. The characterizations are generally good, the action and battle sequences are good, and the plotting is excellent, with many diffferent characters trying to manipulate events. The plotting has a bit of an I,Claudius (helps that it's a Roman-like culture) or Song of Ice and Fire feel to it, without the bombast and relentless hopelessness that many people get from those works. In particular, as you might expect if you've been following the White Council storyline in The Dresden Files, the political maneuvering in the story is quite well done, with many plots within plots and unexpected alliances.

    The most interesting thing about the series, and the most important thing to know if you want to read the whole thing, is that the first book is by far the weakest thing I've ever read by Butcher. It was his first full novel, though not his first published work, and it just isn't as polished as the Dresden stories or the rest of the Aleran stories. You'll notice a huge jump in writing quality when you hit the second book; from there on, the writing is as good as you'll see in a Dresden novel.

    One final thing that I enjoyed about it was that while it was six books long, making up more or less a single, continuous story, it's still digestible. Six books is fairly brief by epic fantasy standards, and the story has a defined ending, something you don't always see with these multi-book epics.
  25. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan View Post
    I meant that because he's so powerful, it must be difficult for the writers to come up with foes he'd believsbly have a problem with. Lex is just a guy, right? Can't Supes just implacably walk to wherever he is, pick him up and take him to prison? Or does every villain wear a kryptonite hat nowadays?

    Eco
    I am not an authority on current Superman comics, but this got me to thinking several things.

    First, because Superman is stronger than most adversaries a writer can invent, over the past several decades, many of the challenges he has faced have been written to be primarily mental or emotional rather than physical. Put another way, writers have tried to present him with villains who cannot be beaten simply by literally beating them up. For example, in recent Superman stories, Lex Luthor is president of the United States. While I suspect the writers did it mainly as a thinly-veiled political commentary*, it also renders Luthor "untouchable" in some sense. Superman could beat him up, but he can't just attack the president without causing a legal mess and can't force the people of the United States to reject Luthor just because Superman knows he's evil.

    Second, apropos of your kryptonite hat comment, back when I was really into Superman as a kid in early '80's, kryptonite-themed villains seemed fairly rare, and when it was mentioned, it was often a more indirect threat (e.g., the weird-colored kryptonite is making Superman crazy, what happens?) than a tool for superpowered villains. Now, I seem to hear a lot more about it as either a character's gimmick (e.g., '90's Superman villain Conduit) or just something used by other villains (e.g., Luthor's kryptonite ring from the "Death of Superman" era). Maybe they do have kryptonite hats these days.

    Third and most importantly, when I hear people complain about "Superman is too powerful!", I think it misses an aspect of the character that's often overlooked in these days of continuities full of hundreds of superheroes. Remember that at the time he came out, Superman was more or less the only superhumanly powerful hero. Originally, and continuing at the very least through the '50's, part of the draw of Superman was exactly that he was so powerful. His contemporary heroes in the pulps of the '30's and early '40's were often highly capable men, but Superman was literally superhuman. The character very intentionally tapped into readers' fascination with a character with "powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men."

    This continued through the '50's at least, and it was probably part of Superman's "power creep" that's so regularly criticized by both fans and writers these days. The thrill for young readers of Superman comics in that period doesn't seem intended to be, "Will Superman survive this peril?" as "Superman is so powerful, it's amazing!" A well-known Superman cover of the time showed him towing some entire planets on a chain. A character who can tow planets on a chain is hard to beat in a fight, but at the time, a man towing planets on a chain was itself exciting to read about. (Still should be, in my opinion, for all but the most jaded readers.) The focus was on the powers themselves, not the obstacles they were used to overcome.

    The problem, of course, was that as story styles and reader tastes changed over the ensuing decades, just towing planets around was not enough. In the mid-'80's, when DC did its first "reboot" (long before that usage of the term existed) of Superman, and one of the things it did was cut back his power level. Readers wanted to see their protagonist challenged, and this required a weaker protagonist, though "weaker" is a relative term when you're discussing a character who throws chunks of concrete, flies, and shoots rays of heat from his eyes.

    This is still more or less where things stand today. It seems to me that many fans and writers remain uncomfortable with Superman's level of power "because it makes things too easy." What they overlook is that the character's powers were designed to appeal to a different kind of interest. The character was designed for uncritical, young readers, not the savvy, fashionably cynical adult comics reader of today. I think it's no accident that most writers who really seem to enjoy working on Superman today are most interested in using him as a symbol, whether a political one as in the Lex-as-president situation or a more general "inspiration to mankind" vein. I think it's also no accident that as readers have come to enjoy more flawed heroes and more perilous situations in superhero stories, Superman has been eclipsed as "the face of the superhero" by Batman, a character who can easily be put into challenging-seeming situations because he can be challenged by almost anything that challenges a real person. (I'm restraining myself here from an extended critique of Batman .... okay, I think the desire to trash him has passed. )

    Bottom line? I think it's a shift in what readers are looking for out of the character and his stories.

    * Critical as I am of the Luthor-as-political-commentary idea, to be fair, it's not like the idea of Superman fighting a villainous politician is something new. Quite the opposite, in fact. The very first Superman story had him fighting an evil lobbyist, and similar stories continued for over a decade in various media, notably the Superman radio show, where crooked political bosses were among the primary antagonists.