Okton

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bha i think all aoe hold powers need a buff... they are weak, slow, bad acc and bad duration.... totally helpless in every builds

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Pardon me?? I find them great and amazing atm

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/agree (oh dear...I just agreed with Dark....now I'm surely doomed! )

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The only one I find I don't use that often anymore is Cinders, and that's just because Flashfire + Fire Cages works almost as well. I know other primaries have similar combos, but with fire/kin things just go so very fast.

Oh, and about the AoE holds, we can't really ask for the pre-I5 ones AND have containment now can we...

This is probably how I would play a Grav/Rad:

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Controller
Primary: Gravity Control
Secondary: Radiation Emission
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Crush==> Acc(1) Dmg(3) Dmg(15) Dmg(17) Acc(46)
01) --> Radiant Aura==> Heal(1) Heal(17) Heal(36) Rechg(46) Rechg(46)
02) --> Gravity Distortion==> Acc(2) Acc(3) Hold(9) Hold(9) Rechg(13) Rechg(15)
04) --> Accelerate Metabolism==> Rechg(4) Rechg(5) Rechg(5) EndMod(37) EndMod(40) EndMod(42)
06) --> Radiation Infection==> TH_DeBuf(6) TH_DeBuf(7) TH_DeBuf(7) DefDeBuf(43) EndRdx(43)
08) --> Recall Friend==> IntRdx(8)
10) --> Propel==> Acc(10) Dmg(11) Dmg(11) Dmg(13) Acc(50)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)
14) --> Teleport==> EndRdx(14) Range(48) Range(50)
16) --> Hurdle==> Jump(16)
18) --> Gravity Distortion Field==> Acc(18) Acc(19) Hold(19) Hold(25) Rechg(27) Rechg(27)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Hasten==> Rechg(22) Rechg(23) Rechg(23)
24) --> Crushing Field==> Acc(24) Acc(25) EndRdx(31)
26) --> Wormhole==> Acc(26) Acc(29) DisDur(31) DisDur(34) Rechg(36) Rechg(36)
28) --> Enervating Field==> EndRdx(28) EndRdx(29)
30) --> Lingering Radiation==> Acc(30) Acc(31) Rechg(37) Rechg(37) Slow(43) Rechg(50)
32) --> Singularity==> Acc(32) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Hold(34) Hold(34)
35) --> Mutation==> Rechg(35)
38) --> EM Pulse==> Acc(38) Acc(39) Hold(39) Hold(39) Rechg(40) Rechg(40)
41) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(41) Rechg(42) Rechg(42)
44) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(44) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(45) EndRdx(45)
47) --> Power Boost==> Rechg(47) Rechg(48) Rechg(48)
49) --> Super Speed==> Run(49)

A few comments:

- You can take either Crush or Lift in the low-levels for nice single-target damage. I found Crush a bit more useful later on because of containment, although the knockup of Lift is handy too.
- I took Propel on my Grav and used it a lot when soloing, but in large teams, it becomes a bit worthless at higher levels, so you may drop it at some point.
- I agree with the others that Wormhole + Crushing Field is a great combo, but also becomes less useful in the 40s unless you plan to solo a lot. I would still keep it.
- I wouldn't bother with more than 1 Def_Debuf for Rad Infection unless you have spare slots.
- Singularity has decent accuracy, no need for more than 1 enhance imho. Slot for damage/holds instead.
- I actually have EndMod enhances in EM Pulse on my /Rad which does some nice endurance drain. But your slotting is more conventional.
- I agree with Graviton, Health is almost useless for squishies and certainly not worth extra slots.
- It would be nice to take EF earlier, but not sure what I'd swap it for (unless you're happy delaying Stamina a bit).

And try not to delete it when you get to 50 this time!

PS: Happy B-Day MaX

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I have a level 35 ice/stom, it took me a few goes to get the build right, but its now pretty good solo or in a team.

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The first thing I would recommend trying is to replace snowstorm with shiver

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Second thing, which I found made a huge difference, is to swap arctic air for thunder clap.

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I dropped frostbite as I like to cycle freezing rain/ ice slick and it stops them bouncing, plus with either shiver or snowstorm nothing moves that much anyway.

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It's interesting to see how different ice/storm builds are quite viable. Mine just hit 36 and went the opposite way:

- I use Snow Storm a lot and have not taken Shiver. I find it works great when put on the right target and since I often team with friends in the 40s, it's a must-have for AVs.
- I'm quite happy with Arctic Air since I tend to be in melee a lot (and run it along with Steamy Mist) and don't plan to take Thunderclap.
- I just got Tornado and am glad I have Frostbite to keep mobs in place. You do have to be careful not to use it on your Ice Slick of course.

It just shows ice/storm an interesting combo to play with quite different tactical options.

Gratz to Kitty for getting her 4th level 50 last night with Rosey Cheeks, a fine Earth troller if I ever saw one! Always great to team with you Kitty. So who will it be next week?

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My fire/rad on the other hand is going to get all the held badges. But that might change when I get fireimps.

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Nah, Fire Imps are great for held (and debt) badges since they usually wander off and aggro every mob within a 5-mile radius

Take care Sheepy, and have fun wherever you go!

Fire/kin is a good example of a build which works better in 2 steps (i.e. up to 28-30, then respec). Partly because it's quite endurance heavy, so some powers can't really work properly before SOs, also because some people prefer to use IR as their sole travel power.

This is how I would play fire/kin up to 30:

Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name:
Level: 31
Archetype: Controller
Primary: Fire Control
Secondary: Kinetics
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Char==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Hold(3) Hold(5) Rechg(5) Rechg(11)
01) --> Transfusion==> Acc(1) Heal(7) Heal(9) Heal(9)
02) --> Siphon Power==> Acc(2)
04) --> Fire Cages==> Acc(4) Acc(7) EndRdx(31)
06) --> Hurdle==> Jump(6)
08) --> Air Superiority==> Acc(8) Dmg(13) Dmg(13)
10) --> Siphon Speed==> Acc(10) Rechg(11)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14) Fly(15) Fly(15)
16) --> Flashfire==> Acc(16) Acc(17) DisDur(17)
18) --> Cinders==> Acc(18) Acc(19) Hold(19) Hold(21) Rechg(21) Rechg(25)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(23) EndMod(23)
22) --> Speed Boost==> EndMod(22)
24) --> Hasten==> Rechg(24) Rechg(25)
26) --> Hot Feet==> Dmg(26) Dmg(27) Dmg(27) EndRdx(29) EndRdx(29)
28) --> Inertial Reduction==> Jump(28)
30) --> Assault==> EndRdx(30)

Some comments:

- AS is a nice attack to use in the low levels with containment. You can then use Fly to move around for a while since you can't really get away with siphon speed as your only travel power.
- Skip Repel. Really.
- Hot Feet is great, but hard to use before SOs.
- Fire Cages can be slotted for damage in the lower levels, but afterwards it's mainly used for group containment, and in tandem with Flashfire.
- ID is a great buff, but not a priority imho. Depends if you want a more team-focussed buffing build.
- Bonfire: try it and see. Not a big fan of kback as a form of control, but has some uses.

After 30 I would go for something like this:

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Controller
Primary: Fire Control
Secondary: Kinetics
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Char==> Acc(1) Acc(3) Hold(3) Hold(5) Rechg(5) Rechg(7)
01) --> Transfusion==> Acc(1) Heal(31) Heal(31) Heal(31) Acc(34) Rechg(46)
02) --> Fire Cages==> Acc(2) Acc(7) EndRdx(34)
04) --> Siphon Power==> Acc(4) Rechg(37) Acc(43) Rechg(48)
06) --> Hurdle==> Jump(6)
08) --> Hot Feet==> Dmg(8) Dmg(9) Dmg(9) EndRdx(13) EndRdx(13) Slow(46)
10) --> Hasten==> Rechg(10) Rechg(11) Rechg(11)
12) --> Siphon Speed==> Acc(12) Rechg(34) Rechg(43) Acc(46) Rechg(50)
14) --> Flashfire==> Acc(14) Acc(15) DisDur(15) DisDur(17) Rechg(40) Rechg(40)
16) --> Assault==> EndRdx(16) EndRdx(17)
18) --> Cinders==> Acc(18) Acc(19) Hold(19) Hold(21) Rechg(21) Rechg(25)
20) --> Swift==> Run(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(23) EndMod(23)
24) --> Speed Boost==> EndMod(24) EndMod(25)
26) --> Tactics==> TH_Buf(26) TH_Buf(27) TH_Buf(27) EndRdx(29) EndRdx(29)
28) --> Inertial Reduction==> Jump(28)
30) --> Smoke==> Rechg(30)
32) --> Fire Imps==> Acc(32) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(33)
35) --> Transference==> Acc(35) Acc(36) EndMod(36) EndMod(36) Rechg(37) Rechg(37)
38) --> Fulcrum Shift==> Acc(38) Acc(39) Rechg(39) Rechg(39) Rechg(40)
41) --> Power Blast==> Acc(41) Dmg(42) Dmg(42) Dmg(42) Acc(43)
44) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(44) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(45) EndRdx(45)
47) --> Power Boost==> Rechg(47) Rechg(48) Rechg(48)
49) --> Hover==> Fly(49) Fly(50) Fly(50)

Some comments:

-When levelling, you migh consider the Fire Epic first to get the nice AoE attack with Fireball, and then respec into Primal (or Psi).
- You won't need Conserve Power with Stamina and Transference.
- You should take Flashfire much earlier. It's your main tool along with Fire Cages (more useful than Cinders).

Hope some of this helps!

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hey guys - building a new ill/kin. and have seen most builds etc. I hav found a way to get combat jump, SJ and acrobatics by skipping deceive, super spd and inert. reduction (personal preference )
However - no one else has ever contemplated this b4 (ie based on traditional builds) - is knockdown/hold resistance not an issue for ill/kin trollers?
Thx in advance

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Actually a lot of controllers get SJ/Acro. Some take SS because Hasten is probably a "must-have" on most builds (definitely for kins) or to use with a stealth power. Some kins take IR because it's a "cheap" travel power, but the leaping pool (CJ/Acro) helps with some of the weak spots we have as controllers. So it's a matter of preference really: on my fire/kin I have IR, Hover (works nicely with siphon speed), Psi Epic (even if IW is nowhere near perma) and just carry some BFs at all time.

And Pieter is right: try not to skip Deceive if you can

I would still do a few things slightly differently:

- Crush: not a bad power to slot for damage in the early levels. Can always drop or respec out slots later.
- I would swap a Rchg for an extra Heal in Transfusion. With 1 Rchg, Hasten and Siphon Speed, it will be up in no time.
- GD: make sure you 6-slot this asap.
- Crushing Field: I would add an EndRdx. And careful, this is an AoE immob, not a hold. Very useful later with Wormhole.
- Hover: not sure you need this 3-slotted as well as Fly given that you have Siphon Speed.
- Conserve Power: Archy's right, this is total overkill for a kin with Stamina. Get the blast or something else instead.
- Temp Invuln: slot 3 DmgRes and 1-2 EndRdx
- ID: slot DmgRes instead of Rechg.

Hope some of this helps

I wouldn't recommend levelling a /kin without Stamina. Now some people drop it after Transference but I find kin to be so active, that I'd rather keep it. Otherwise you spend half of your time spamming Transference instead of controlling/buffing. I don't have Primal on my high-level /kin so I don't know if Transference + CP is enough to keep you going without Stamina in the 40s. And you definitely want Hasten from the pools.

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ooo back for good or just till your sub runs out m8? I have a toon at lvl 49 that i'm working on dinging, maybe i'll get there before you go

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49?!?

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roll a fire/rad or illusion/rad those ought to trup rad/psi?

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Mmm, I don't think so. PBU + LR + the slows from the psi attacks is pretty nasty, plus once you have RI and EF on you you aren't exactly going to be doing a lot of damage no matter your primary.

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But Xan, what if the ill/rad gets his debuffs on you first? You won't be doing much either, even with PBU (and he still has fear and pets which keep hitting). Could be a fun duel though...

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Was only going to use aim with thunderous blast.


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Power Build Up also gives you a +acc +dmg buff, as well as doubling all secondary effects

Try this:

(1) put Kin or Rad troller on your Search window; then
(2) put Illusion troller.

Now see which gets you more invites. Partly it will be due to people not understanding how much Illusion can bring to a team, but partly, well, it's just not the best "support" troller. This said, my ill/rad is still my favourite troller, and was by far the easiest to solo (followed by my fire/kin after Fulcrum). As others have said, illusion is the most versatile because of all the tricks it brings (PA, invis, confusion, fear), but if you want support through (AoE) control, Earth, Mind and Ice are way ahead (Flash is easily the worst AoE hold of all).

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- I wouldn't bother with EndRdx in Lift/Crush.
well should have been recharges =)
Health is more for the sleep res it gives for pvp. havent tried it. but if it just takes one sleep im happy.
Propel is for the odd chance of a one on one.
Is GD still mag 4 ?
Gonna try and refine the build abit post it =).
Thanks for the comments =).

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The res(sleep) from Health is quite small and honestly, how often do you face sleeps in PvP? You'll get a lot more out of the unsuppressed movement which Hurdle gives you imho.

Propel's animation is way too long for PvP. You have much quicker attacks in Crush, Lift and Power Blast.

GD (like all troller holds) is Mag 3.

Just some quick comments: both Freezing Rain and Aim (although I personally wouldn't take it, especially with Tactics) should be 3-slotted with Rechgs. You can then add a Def_Debuf or EndRdx to FR if wanted. If you PvP, you're better off taking Hurdle instead of Health as the +regen is minimal for a squishy. Finally, Power Mastery without Power Build Up???

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AoE control, nothing like Illu/Rad IMO

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Ever seen a good Earth/Rad or Earth/Storm in action?

Flash and Spectral Terror vs. Stone Cages, Quicksand, Salt Crystals, Stalagmites, Earthquake, Volcanic Gasses.

This is a certainly a tricky question. In terms of primaries, I would say that Earth, Mind and Ice offer very nice AoE control if that's what you're looking for. Fire offers extra damage which is also a type of "control", Gravity is a nice compromise between control and damage, and even Illusion (which is arguably the most solo-friendly) has some very team-friendly powers (e.g. Phantom Army, Group Invis). For secondaries, I would say that all are team-friendly in different ways, it really depends on your playstyle and what you enjoy doing on a team. Obvious choices are /empathy /kin or /FF, and even if some secondaries are solo-friendly (like /rad), they are all very useful in teams (some, like /sonic, are really mainly useful in teams).

I would recommend having a look at this guide to help you decide what troller is best for you.

Put 2 recharges in Transference

Other comments:

- I wouldn't bother with EndRdx in Lift/Crush.
- For PvE, you might want to take Crushing Field to use with Wormhole.
- Singularity already has high accuracy, so I wouldn't bother with more than 1 Acc enhance. Slot a 3rd Dmg or Hold.
- Propel at 41 won't be of much use and I don't think you need Conserve Power with both Stamina and Transference. I would take the blast at 41, the shield at 44 and PB at 47.
- Health is not that great for squishies. I would take Hurdle, especially if you plan to PvP.
- I wouldn't slot Fulcrum for range, just 2 Acc 3 Rechg.
- GDF is good for PvE but won't get much use in PvP.
- Transfusion is worth 5 or 6 slots (2 Acc 3 Heal if possible 1 Rchg). Take away the 3rd slot from SB if needed.

Hope some of this helps!

It really depends on what kind of PvP you want to do (team/duel? Arena/zone?). For duels, I'd say /rad, for teams, several combos can work (e.g. /kin, /FF, /empathy). Remember that Fire already has -fly with Ring of Fire / Fire Cages as well as a disorient (Flashfire). For PvE? fire/kin all the way

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That said, its not doing much IN combat as defense, but dangit! its one of the few defenses you have!!

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Not much in defense, no, but up to 40% +res (fully slotted) to Fire, Cold and Energy dmg for you and your team is not bad!

Kinetics of course! (I guess /rad /elec or /dark could all work well depending on your playstyle)

The +DEF is quite small and doesn't change whether you attack or not, so slot 2-3 EndRdx and that's it.

This is what I'm planning to respec Ziggy into as soon as I hit 32 (next lvl). Any comments also welcome.

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name: Ziggy_respec
Level: 50
Archetype: Mastermind
Primary: Thugs
Secondary: Dark Miasma
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01) --> Call Thugs==> Acc(1) Dmg(3) Dmg(3) Dmg(5) Acc(37)
01) --> Twilight Grasp==> Acc(1) Heal(11) Heal(21) Heal(21) Acc(33) Rechg(40)
02) --> Tar Patch==> Rechg(2) Rechg(5) Rechg(7) Slow(43)
04) --> Darkest Night==> TH_DeBuf(4) TH_DeBuf(7) TH_DeBuf(11) EndRdx(15) EndRdx(43)
06) --> Equip Thugs==> EndRdx(6)
08) --> Hasten==> Rechg(8) Rechg(9) Rechg(9)
10) --> Swift==> Run(10)
12) --> Call Enforcer==> Acc(12) Dmg(13) Dmg(13) Dmg(15) DefDeBuf(17) DefDeBuf(17)
14) --> Super Speed==> Run(14)
16) --> Shadow Fall==> EndRdx(16) DmgRes(33) DmgRes(34) DmgRes(34) EndRdx(46)
18) --> Gang War==> Rechg(18) Rechg(19) Rechg(19)
20) --> Hurdle==> Jump(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(23) EndMod(23)
24) --> Fearsome Stare==> Acc(24) Acc(25) Fear(25) Fear(29) Rechg(31) Rechg(31)
26) --> Call Bruiser==> Acc(26) Dmg(27) Dmg(27) Dmg(29) DisDur(34)
28) --> Howling Twilight==> Rechg(28) Rechg(31) Rechg(43)
30) --> Assault==> EndRdx(30) EndRdx(37)
32) --> Upgrade Equipment==> Rechg(32) EndRdx(33)
35) --> Tactics==> TH_Buf(35) TH_Buf(36) TH_Buf(36) EndRdx(36) EndRdx(37)
38) --> Dark Servant==> Rechg(38) Rechg(39) TH_DeBuf(39) TH_DeBuf(39) TH_DeBuf(40) Heal(40)
41) --> Dark Embrace==> DmgRes(41) DmgRes(42) DmgRes(42) EndRdx(42)
44) --> Soul Tentacles==> Acc(44) Acc(45) Rechg(45) Rechg(45) Immob(46) Range(46)
47) --> Soul Storm==> Acc(47) Acc(48) Hold(48) Hold(48) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
49) --> Challenge==> Taunt(49) Taunt(50)

Still undecided about Leadership. Might skip it and take Petrifying Gaze and Hover instead.

Looks nice! Two small things I would change:

- move some slots to Tactics, you really want 3 ThT_Bufs there. For example from Fire Cages, Fulcrum or the 2nd EndRdx from Assault (since you won't use it much after Fulcrum really) or from Fire Shield (1 EndRdx is enough).
- I wouldn't bother with Fly at 49. Hover + Siphon Speed is not bad. Smoke with a single Rechg might be more useful so you can get closer to mobs before attacking, or Fire Blast for some nice single target damage (if you can take it at 47 for slotting purposes).