Okton

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Should I slot Freezing Rain for damage?

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No as the dmg is so low on it that any enhancers added will not increase the dmg percentage by very much at all.

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This ^^^. If you want some damage from it you're better off slotting some procs (dmg and -res).

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Farming and pvp'ing are basically mutually exclusive.


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I assume the original question was 'do I need a farming toon so I can gather lots of inf and pimp up my PvP toons?'

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Yes, you can't possibly PvP if you don't have a fire/kin (preferably 2 of them).

[/ QUOTE ]
Stop giving bad advice to people.

[/ QUOTE ]
But, but, but... that's what Archy told me... Or was it 2 spines/dark?

Yes, you can't possibly PvP if you don't have a fire/kin (preferably 2 of them).

(slightly more constructive assuming you're a new player) just have fun, learn to play the game and worry about farming (or not) later

All corruptor secondaries bring something useful to teams, but some are more solo-friendly than others. Among the ones which are better for teams I'd say cold, sonic and thermal since they have several ally-targeted buffs. Kin, rad, storm and dark are also very good for teams, but in addition offer good options if you're soloing (cold and thermal too, but only at higher levels). It depends a bit if you don't mind keeping your team-mates shielded, or if you prefer anchored/location-based (de)buffs, etc. Storm can be annoying for some teams if it's not used properly, but is a great set once you master it. Traps is the only set I haven't played at high level (past Tier 9), so I won't comment.

In terms of primaries, all are fine for teams. Some have slightly more AoEs which can be handy, but look also at the secondary effects which can benefit your whole team (e.g. -res, -def, -tht, slows, etc.).

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you have Posi's in VG rather than the other Hold PROC (Neuronic Shutdown or whatever it is)?

[/ QUOTE ]
You're right Carni, I forgot about that one (chance for psi dmg). And btw, this is NOT my build: with earth/kin I don't need all these procs for good damage. I was just showing which ones you could use.

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Also okton could you post your build so i can see what procs you are using.

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I have an earth/kin and a grav/sonic, but here are some examples of which procs you can slot in earth control (listing only those which I consider useful):

- Fossilize: GW's chance for psi dmg, Devastation Chance of Hold, Decimation chance of BU (also 2 purples)
- Stone Cages: Posi Blast chance for energy dmg, Trap of the Hunter chance of lethal dmg (also the purple Gravitation Anchor which I mentioned earlier and is very handy)
- Quicksand: Impeded Swiftness chance for smashing dmg
- Stalagmites: Posi Blast chance for energy dmg (also a purple which can do -tht although you might not need that)
- Earthquake: Achilles' Heel chance for -res, Touch of Lady Grey chance for neg dmg, Explosive Strike chance for smashing dmg, Force Feedback chance for +rechg (and 2 from tht_debuf sets which are less useful)
- VG: Posi Blast chance for energy dmg, GW's chance for psi dmg (and a purple dmg one)
- Stoney: Explosive Strike chance for smashing dmg (and a purple chance for BU).

Getting all if these won't be cheap of course since most are quite pricey and you have to optimise the remaining slots if you want a proc-heavy build, but it gives you an idea of where you can start getting some extra damage from, especially in powers which you tend to spam frequently.

[ QUOTE ]
Need to remember the towers with my US Grav/Sonic when she reaches that level - she has 2 cage powers so thats 2 towers out of action

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Dimension Shift has much lower mag than Sonic Cage, so I doubt it would work with the towers (or with Flier/AVs).

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yeah check the edit in my first post
what i dont understand that kitty said cages intefere with eq.

[/ QUOTE ]
Because it prevents the knockdown of EQ.

Yes, definitely get EQ asap. With SOs and the powers you've chosen (more or less), I'd do something like this:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.4006
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Earth Control
Secondary Power Set: Sonic Resonance
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fossilize -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Hold(5), Hold(5), RechRdx(7), RechRdx(9)
Level 1: Sonic Siphon -- Acc(A), Acc(36)
Level 2: Stone Cages -- Acc(A), Acc(3), EndRdx(40)
Level 4: Sonic Barrier -- ResDam(A), ResDam(7), ResDam(9), EndRdx(36)
Level 6: Quicksand -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(43)
Level 8: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 10: Air Superiority -- Acc(A), Acc(11), Dmg(11), Dmg(34), Dmg(37)
Level 12: Stalagmites -- Acc(A), Acc(13), Dsrnt(13), Dsrnt(21), RechRdx(21), RechRdx(39)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight(A), Flight(15), Flight(15), EndRdx(48)
Level 16: Sonic Haven -- ResDam(A), ResDam(17), ResDam(17), EndRdx(36)
Level 18: Earthquake -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(19)
Level 20: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 22: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(23), EndMod(23)
Level 24: Sonic Dispersion -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(25), EndRdx(25), ResDam(27), ResDam(34), ResDam(42)
Level 26: Volcanic Gasses -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(27), RechRdx(31), Hold(37), Hold(37), Hold(43)
Level 28: Disruption Field -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(29), EndRdx(29)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(31), RechRdx(31)
Level 32: Animate Stone -- Acc(A), Dmg(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(33), Acc(34)
Level 35: Clarity -- RechRdx(A)
Level 38: Liquefy -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(39), RechRdx(39), ToHitDeb(40), ToHitDeb(40)
Level 41: Fissure -- Acc(A), Dmg(42), Dmg(42), Dmg(43), Acc(46), RechRdx(46)
Level 44: Rock Armor -- EndRdx(A), DefBuff(45), DefBuff(45), DefBuff(45), EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Earth's Embrace -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(48), RechRdx(48), Heal(50), Heal(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]


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A few comments:

- Hasten: I have it on all my controllers. Extremely useful with long recharge powers even if you don't take SS as a travel power.
- I assume you took Air Sup for an extra attack. Another option is to take Stone Prison and slot it for damage.
- Some powers are over-slotted for SOs in my build (like VG), but you can use the slots later when you get to IOs (and procs ftw with earth). One problem with earth/sonic is that it's a very team-dependent build (very low damage) unless (until?) you slot lots of procs.
- Liquefy is not great for trollers unless you combine it with Power Boost (which is quite good for many earth powers too). Unfortunately Primal offers the lowest damage since it lacks an AoE attack. Admittedly, Earth is probably the best primary to have if you do take Liquefy because of the stacking -tht and -def.
- Leadership: difficult to squeeze in 3 powers unless you drop something else. Kitty's point about Stone Cages is a good one: you can use the SC + Stalagmites combo at lower levels, but with all the control Earth offers, you might not be using it that often at higher levels. On the other hand, slotting the purple hold proc (and a couple of dmg ones) in Cages works wonders.

Hope some of this helps

Hi Psi,

I do think Stone is a nice set (I use it on my earth/kin), but I'm not sure it's the best for ill/rad (on my own I have Primal). I must say I haven't respecced into Hurl Boulder since it's been changed, so maybe it's better now. And you're right, Fissure is nice for melee toons (like most kins), but for others, I usually prefer the ranged Fire or Psi AoE attacks. On the other hand, you can do some nice IO set slotting (including procs/specials) with the Stone epic powers.

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are any of these veat sgs out there still active? or has everyone given up on the idea?

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I don't know if there are. Problem is the teams were sooo good, we've all hit 50 now

Each one of the epics has interesting powers, depending on what you're looking for.

- Primal is nice because of Power Boost, even though it's recently been nerfed. For an ill/rad, it will improve your holds, confuse, fear, heal, -def, -tht, +/- speed and end drain. Otherwise the shield is OK (resists to S/L) and Conserve Power can be useful (e.g. use after EM Pulse) although its recharge is quite long. The single-target attack is fairly useless.
- Fire: good for extra damage (and different type) since you can get Fire Ball at 41. The shield is not bad (S/L resists plus a bit of Fire and Cold). Consume can be handy, but probably not needed on most ill/rad builds. Fire Blast is skippable.
- Psi: a good choice because of Indomitable Will especially once you cut down the recharge. The shield is very nice because of the psi resists and Psi Tornado is a fairly good (psi) AoE attack (damage is similar to Fire Ball although the recharge and activation are longer). Also it gives a bit of extra control since it does knockup. Like with the other sets, you can easily skip the single-target blast.
- Stone: a more defensive set with a good defense-based shield and the ever-so-lovely Earth's Embrace. Fissure is an OK AoE attack (short range though) with some stun and kback. Hurl Boulder does a lot of (single-target) damage, but is too slow to be of much use.
- Ice: a good compromise between an offensive and defensive set. Hibernate is very handy. The shield has both S/L defense and some resistance to cold and fire. Ice Storm does quite good AoE damage (especially with containment) even if the recharge is a bit long. Ice Blast:skip.

So that's about it really. They each have some good powers and can all work well in PvE, it really depends on your playstyle (and you can always respec).

[ QUOTE ]
IW is mez protection

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Will it also improve the recharge of my Dark Servant power? Because I need something like 90% to perma him afaik?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes it will (although it's closer to 110%). I have him perma with 2 Rechg IOs and Hasten.

It's hard to argue with concept, so if you really don't want the T1 pets and really want the attacks... well that's fine I guess. Blitzkrieger has already made some really good points on why Darkest Night and Shadow Fall will greatly enhance your survivability. I just wanted to add that if you didn't use those attacks (which don't seem to really be in line with the healer/debuffer you say you want to play anyway), you wouldn't have so many endurance problems. With 2 endrdx on toggles and Stamina (plus a bit of +recov here and there from sets admittedly), I have no end problems and usually have Shadow Fall and 1-2 Leadership toggles running.

Just some numbers concerning the Enforcers' buffs (and this is per Enforcer):
- Maneuvers: around 7.2% unenhanced at lvl 12 (8.5% at lvl 50). So yes, I definitely think it's worth enhancing, especially if you can stack it (or team with other Thugs).
- Tactics (with 1st upgrade): 3% +tht (so not worth enhancing)
- Assault (with 2nd upgrade): 5% +dmg (unenhanceable but - like Tactics - stacks with your inherent)

The attacks do 5% -def but the duration is very short, so not worth bothering with imo (except when you get to HOs since Lysos will enhance both +def and -def). With SOs (and running Tactics) I think I slotted them 1 Acc 3 Dmg 2 Def_Buf.

And a couple of other comments:

- yes, HT is very endurance heavy, but with such a long recharge, you won't need more than 1 endrdx in it, even if you use it mainly as a debuff instead of a rez.
- Petrifying Gaze: I'm still considering dropping this if/when I respec. Limited use unless you can stack it with another hold from your patron imo.

Anyway, have fun with your MM, whichever way you choose to build him. And remember that Thugs MMs are a bit like VEATs: 1 in a team: nice. 2 in a team: much, much better. 3 or more in a team: pure win!

The levels don't matter for set bonuses unless you exemp. See clicky.

I think the problem could be in the power choice/slotting. Thugs/Dark is VERY survivable. I wouldn't skip the Tier 1 pets, and wouldn't bother with any of the attacks. Some suggestions:

- Darkest Night: take much earlier and slot 3 tht_debuf 1-2 endrdx
- Tar Patch: slot a 3rd rechg
- Equip Thugs: 1 endrdx is all you need
- Howling Twilight: wouldn't bother with anything else besides rechgs
- Enforcers: slot def_buf and acc first, then dmg.
- Upgrade Eqpt: 1 endrdx 1 rechg is enough really
- Shadow Fall is very handy if you micro-manage your thugs.
- taking a patron AoE immob (and maybe shield) is quite helpful

Later on with IO sets and HOs you can do a lot more.

Only slightly more if you have someone who can herd with Disruption Field on. And Rad has +dmg (as well as -regen and +rechg which translate into shorter fights). Sonic Resonance is a good secondary, but hardly a damage-oriented one. How many fire/sonic farmers (or superteams) have you seen around?

[ QUOTE ]
I dont dispute Earth CAN do reasonable damage, very particularly with a "damagy" secondary like Storm, Kin, maybe Sonic or TA and tons of procs, but out of the box its the weakest damage primary in my book (made up for its strongest control)

[/ QUOTE ]
Edited for accuracy (and replace Sonic with Rad).

[ QUOTE ]
Actually doesn't it work a little better than that? Spectral Terror has a Fear aura (so when cast and every 10 secs as Okton says) but it also has a single target fear attack, so each time it casts that there should also be a 20% chance of the damage from the Proc there afaik

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm... guess you're right, although since it's single-target, you probably shouldn't expect too much from it.

My current build is something like this (IOs, but no purples and nothing too fancy in terms of uniques/specials) although I will probably change a couple of things when I respec (I'm considering taking Lunge and/or CJ instead of Veng and/or Placate). Went for a balance of +dmg and +rechg bonuses and also found that +regen works well with the build.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.4006
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Exuvia: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Poison Dart -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(3), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(11), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Thundr-Acc/Dmg(29), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def(3), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(39), RedFtn-EndRdx(39), Ksmt-ToHit+(50)
Level 2: Strike -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(5), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(17)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(7), RedFtn-EndRdx(7), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(15), RedFtn-Def(40)
Level 6: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 8: Follow Up -- Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(9), Mako-Acc/Dmg(17), AdjTgt-Rchg(36), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(36), GSFC-Build%(46)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(37), TtmC'tng-ResDam(37), S'fstPrt-ResKB(42), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(46)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(43)
Level 18: Spin -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(25), Sciroc-Dam%(25), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(48)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod(36), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(39)
Level 22: Foresight -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(23), ImpArm-ResDam(34), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(40), ResDam-I(40)
Level 24: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 26: Mind Link -- LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(27), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), GftotA-Def/Rchg(34), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(42)
Level 28: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43), LkGmblr-Def(43)
Level 30: Tactical Training: Leadership -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(31), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(31), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(31), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 32: Slash -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(34)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Elude -- LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 41: Placate -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Mental Blast -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(45), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Thundr-Acc/Dmg(46), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Tactical Training: Vengeance -- LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
------------
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]19.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]19.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]19.5% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]19.5% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]19.5% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]19.5% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]19.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]19.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]3% Defense(Smashing)[*]3% Defense(Lethal)[*]3% Defense(Fire)[*]3% Defense(Cold)[*]3% Defense(Energy)[*]3% Defense(Negative)[*]3% Defense(Psionic)[*]3% Defense(Melee)[*]3% Defense(Ranged)[*]6.13% Defense(AoE)[*]5% Enhancement(JumpHeight)[*]25% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]20% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]5% Enhancement(FlySpeed)[*]5% Enhancement(JumpSpeed)[*]5% Enhancement(RunSpeed)[*]152.6 HP (14.2%) HitPoints[*]Knockback (Mag -4)[*]Knockup (Mag -4)[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 13.2%[*]MezResist(Sleep) 2.2%[*]20% Perception[*]10.5% (0.18 End/sec) Recovery[*]90% (4.83 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]2.52% Resistance(Fire)[*]2.52% Resistance(Cold)[*]1.26% Resistance(Energy)[*]4.39% Resistance(Negative)[/list]


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Yes, it works fine in Spectral Terror. It will have a chance to trigger (on each foe) when you summon and every 10 secs thereafter.

Hey Kitty,

A few comments based on my experience with my NW.

- Hasten: I actually take it on most of my toons (especially if you have other +rechg powers), and SS with Mask Presence is very handy. Otherwise consider CJ to get that little extra +def. Also, it allows you to perma ML much earlier (and easier).
- Dart Burst: dropped it after a while. Cone is small, not really worth it imo. I found it more usful to take Mental Blast for a different dmg type and Spin for AoE dmg (also dropped Eviscerate after a while).
- Mask Presence: you lose 2/3 of the +def when you attack, so I wouldn't bother with too many slots.
- Mind Link: yes, it's that good. You can probably get a set bonus or 2 with better slotting (like 2 LotGs).
- TT: Assault: I'd take much earlier (and pool Assault is nice too, more useful than TT:Offensive imo)
- Elude: still useful in long fights vs Heroes (or as a travel power), even if you don't slot it.
- Smoke Grenade: meh.
- Build Up: I went for Follow Up instead for a "scrappier" approach. Different playstyle I guess, but you can easily stack it and with a Gaussian BU proc, you can have a nice sustained dmg buff.

Hope some of this helps!

As Alvan says, you don't really need either for normal PvE (especially PUGs), but I would also go for Sonic Cage which can be handy vs. EB/AVs, etc. or when soloing. I did have both for a while on my grav/sonic back when you could really mess up teams in PvP with teh cage.