Okton

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Since I7, debuffs (like CE) don't interrupt AS. Only powers with damage (e.g. Hot Feet) or movement effects (like Hurricane's repel) do.

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Errr I could swear that something that the Ice tanker does, interrupts AS very efficiently without dropping me out of hide..I know cause ive been in Sirens trying to AS ice tankers... I remember the change but I guess we need to experiment so that nothing is bugged or anything..

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Icicles perhaps?

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Wouldnt icicle damage drop me out of hide?

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I guess it should. All I know is CE doesn't interrupt AS anymore. Tried and tested with my /ice blaster.

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Since I7, debuffs (like CE) don't interrupt AS. Only powers with damage (e.g. Hot Feet) or movement effects (like Hurricane's repel) do.

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Errr I could swear that something that the Ice tanker does, interrupts AS very efficiently without dropping me out of hide..I know cause ive been in Sirens trying to AS ice tankers... I remember the change but I guess we need to experiment so that nothing is bugged or anything..

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Icicles perhaps?

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3 hold/1 rech is more efficient than 2 hold/2 rech, for stacking holds purpose, with so much recharge.

Let's say you have Hasten and 1 SS (90% recharge)

With 1 rech 3 hold : Char animates in 1s, recharges in 3,5s, lasts 45s. 45/4,5 = 10 holds stacked.

With 2 rech 2 hold : Char animates in 1s, recharges in 3s, lasts 38s. 38/4 = 9 holds stacked. (9,5)

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So it takes me 9 secs to hold an EB (or an AV with PToD down), and it takes you 10 secs (assuming we hit). How is your slotting more efficient? Admittedly the difference is small, but stacking 9 vs 10 holds only matters when facing AVs with PToD up (or GMs).

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It also works better in pvp with suppression.

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PvP is indeed a different story because of suppression. My point was for PvE.

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Then you have external +rech buffs or stuff like Geas, so unless you solo a lot, have powerboost or like to hold boss in half a sec faster, it's safe to say 3 hold works better, especially in both situations where stacking a lot of holds is useful (pvp and AVs).

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Of course you can have other buffs on you (Geas, Vanguard, PB, +rchg buffs, whatever), but you might not.

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Only AOEs that are useful in stopping stalkers are AOE debuffs like chilling embrace or hurricane because they autohit interrupt AS

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Since I7, debuffs (like CE) don't interrupt AS. Only powers with damage (e.g. Hot Feet) or movement effects (like Hurricane's repel) do.

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Okay, this is according to SherkSilver.

2.5 smash per 20 sec (Base) (Fissure)
3.75 fire per 32 sec (Base) (Fireball, partly DoT bearing in mind )

2.5/20= 0.125 per sec
3.75/32=0.117 per sec


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I tend to trust the nofuture numbers much more (at lvl 50):

Fire Ball:
6.12 Smashing Damage
42.82 Fire Damage
3 * 3.06 Fire Damage over 2.10 seconds (after 0.5 second delay) (80% chance) [this is the DoT part ]

Fissure:
27.53 Smashing Damage

Now adjust damage and recharge for the slotting I mentioned above (FB with 3 dmg and 1 rechg / Fissure with 2 rechg) and you'll see my DPS is about 2x yours

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So, I'd say stone is a set balanced just as well as the others

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It's a balanced set (I might even take it on my Earth troller), just not a damage-dealing set

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Fissure is better dps, due to much faster recharge, if the foes aren't overly smash resistance you can notice it. Do the math, and Try it .

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I did! (both) Fissure unslotted recharges in 20 secs; FB in 32. Not sure you have though ("it's better DPS than fireball").

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Hot Feet is the big damage dealer anyway

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Then why would I bother with Stone if I don't feel I need EE??? Anyway, let's agree to disagree on this .

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Have you tried fissure slotted up too? Just try my build Go on... it gives you cookies!

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Ooooh! Cookies! *rushes off to try build*

But seriously, unslotted, Fire Ball does about 80% more (less resisted) damage than Fissure. Even with Fulcrum, you definitely want to slot your Epic attacks with damage enhances (especially after the recent nerf). So in terms of sustainable DPS (not counting endurance cost, but who cares with Transference), my FB (2 acc 3 dmg 1 rchg) comes waaaay ahead of your Fissure (2 acc 2 stun 2 rchg). Try it .

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(well I don't agree on Stone Mastery either, but again, if you like it, why not).

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Just try it

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I have (on Test). Otherwise how would I know I don't like it?
To expand, it's main attraction for me is EE, but I find I don't really need it on my fire/kin. For squishier trollers it's not a bad choice, but for the PvE damage kin, I prefer Fire/Psi .

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I have enough recharge to pretty much chain char and ring of fire Archy, why would i need more?

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Ermm... to stack holds maybe?

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Then why take out durations?

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Because you need a higher mag to hold bosses/AVs, so it's better to stack quickly than to have longer lasting holds. And for minions, they should be dead before the hold fades (2 Hold enhances is enough). That's why

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Minions live long enough for the hold to be effective?


*Bursts out laughing*

Flashfire and Fissure for minions

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You do know that AoEs can miss right? And Fissure? sure from lvl 41 onwards...

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One recharge and 3 sip speeds and haste are MORE than enough recharge, duration is for EBs/AVs.

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You don't always have Hasten up and 3 SSs on you. I'm sure I can hold an EB faster with 2/2/2 slotting, but to each his own.

And otherwise (like Archy said) nice guide (well I don't agree on Stone Mastery either, but again, if you like it, why not).

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I have enough recharge to pretty much chain char and ring of fire Archy, why would i need more?

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Ermm... to stack holds maybe?

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Then why take out durations?

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Because you need a higher mag to hold bosses/AVs, so it's better to stack quickly than to have longer lasting holds. And for minions, they should be dead before the hold fades (2 Hold enhances is enough). That's why

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I have enough recharge to pretty much chain char and ring of fire Archy, why would i need more?

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Ermm... to stack holds maybe?

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Phantasm is pants dmg and so are the phantom army... and army cant be buffed...

Imps all the way.

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Illusion was mentioned by Maelwys for PA. Try tanking AVs with imps . And if you have 7 blasters with Fulcrum no one would notice the imps' damage anyway

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i think 7 blasters and a kin would far surpass 8 blasters

7 blasters will fulcrum shift and Sb

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Or even better, 7 trollers and 1 blaster!

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I think it depends on your boredom thresh-hold. Illusion is just boring up to 16. Perfectly soloable but its just levels of blind, Spec. Wounds, Blind, Spec. Wounds, Blind, Spec..... you get the idea.

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And here's where bad controllers show themselves....the secondary is there for a reason.

There's for the most part a lot more variety to controllers at lowlvl than most other ATs

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Besides, assuming you're going for Stamina, you won't have that many more (fun) options before 16 with fire than with Illusion...

1-50? What the trollern00bs above said

(just avoid grav/sonic )

Edit: fire/kin is arguably better after 38, but it needs team-mates to shine (i.e. increase spawns). For the amount of mobs you get solo, ill/rad is just as good in the 40s.

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Unless you are going for concept above functionality skip the leadership powers for a Thug MM

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Well the way my (lvl 40) MM can solo, I think it's fair to say that my build is functional AND it still includes Leadership . It really depends what you skip to fit them in: I sacrificed Petrifying Gaze and Howling Twilight for now (I plan to take the latter, and maybe both later in the 40s) and skipped all the attacks from the primary (as well as Black Hole). So I have to disagree with the statement above (having respecced into Leadership in the mid-30s). Now if you had said "Unless you are going for concept above functionality skip the blasts for a Thug MM", then sure .

Concerning the OP, I (and others) have argued why some of the /Dark powers are so useful. As far as I'm concerned, it's up to him now to decide what to do with that and how to build his toon.

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Like I say I'm still fairly new to CoX but as I recall from other games, slowing and debuffing your foe does not kill them.

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Tar Patch gives -30% dmg resistance to all the foes inside, while preventing them from running out, thus making it a lot easier for your henches to take them down. Darkest Night makes everything much safer by significantly reducing the damage that you take (-22%), and reducing their chances to hit you (around 17% -ToHit when fully slotted). You should pick the powers that you like, but these 2 will help you a lot.

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So and I'm sure my noobness will be pinted out when I say I plan to respec out Fearsome Gaze and Petrifying Gaze in order to get Assault and Tactics. I currently have Fearsome Gaze and can't help thinking that it doesn't do much. I'm sure it will get a little better with slotting and practice but I can't really justify a skill that makes people cower a little some of the time over an overall damage boost all the time. I will wait till I have chance to try Petrifying Gaze before I respec, although the sam e argument will probably win. At level 50 I will have a hold spell from Ghost Widow and my Dark Servant will be able to hold.

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Despite what Nanolathe says, I actually dropped Petrifying Gaze in order to get the Leadership pool (Assault, Tactics & Vengeance). These are certainly not crucial, but they stack with the Enforcer buffs to make them hit harder and more accurately. I try to team as much as possible, so I do get to use Vengeance once in a while and it's just great on your henches. A few times I've teamed with a fellow thugster also running Leadership powers and the results are just amazing.

Fearsome Stare I find essential (along with TP and DN) and I slot heavily for -ThT (and not fear). Your main weakness as a Thugs/Dark is that your henches are quite squishy and have an iffy AI, so I focus on making sure they don't get hit much. Petrifying Gaze is nice, but I found it can be moved back to the 40s (good placement of Dark Servant and Gang War help me deal with bosses/Heroes).

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I would like some advice on slotting Assault and Tactics if anyone would be so kind.

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I Have Stamina and slot Assault 2 EndRdx, and Tactics 3 Tht_Buf 2 EndRdx.

The most important thing of course is that you enjoy playing your MM. Each person has their own playstyle and goals (like following a concept). These tips might just help make things easier.

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But I did discover my Robot/Dark MM performed amazingly well at lvl 5 versus two Corruptors... but I think they went easy on me. They must have felt sorry for me not having Infridgiate or Snow Storm

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Nah, we were just too busy trying to outslow each other . Anyway, thanks again for organising this Echo, good fun as always! And I might actually keep levelling that sonic/cold just to annoy some people

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Anyone else had any experiences of a full team of squishies?

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*giggles remembering all-controller AV runs ("AV? where? oh, down I guess...") and drools in anticipation of doing an all-troller STF*

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PB adds to the duration of the mez power. Adds a few truckloads of duration to it, to be exact

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The effect scales by level and varies by AT. For dominators, at level 16 it offers a 115% boost; at level 50 it's a 149% boost.

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Only thing wrong with it is its long activation which may make you want to use shorter activation powers..

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Since they removed the pause after casting, Deceive now has the same activation time as Blind.

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Dark: NOT Tar patch, Darkest night

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Too bad you're missing the 2 best powers from your secondary

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I see it being more useful for PvP than for PvE tho. For PvE I just used it to confuse AVs not to have to fight its minions when the team was tight

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I've only found it useful in very specific PvP situations like duelling against another troller. In large maps or zone PvP, there are just too many ways to counter it. For PvE, I used it throughout all levels. It's a nice ghetto mez in the low levels when you solo and can be very helpful in team situations when used on (de)buffing foes. It's true that in the end-game, you will mainly use it on AVs. Still worth keeping imo.

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Trigger containment? Both check.

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Nope. Confusion doesn't set up containment. Only holds, immobs, sleeps and stuns.

For PvE, try to take it (especially if you solo). For PvP, no problem if you skip it.

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next one is tommorow to any unaware

Any illusion trollers who happen to read this, rather than the normal controller outfit, if possible make a white outfit with a purple stripe, jsut to make it easier to idenify ya when everything is being sorted

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I was thinking that a purple cossie with a white stripe would be better, because the current uniform would translate that as a PB with a hold. Just a fyi.

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This is what I use for my ill troller: clicky.