Okton

Some suggestions:

- Fossilize: 2 Acc 2 Hold 2 Rechg.
- Rad Aura: not a great heal, but try to get a 4th slot, maybe a Heal/Rechg from another set.
- Stone Cages: 2 Acc 1 Endrdx.
- AM: a 3rd EndMod if you can.
- RI: 3 Tht_Debuf 2 Def_Debuf 1 Endrdx
- Quicksand: Slows only affect movement so I wouldn't bother, it's better to slot Rechg so you can stack it (although it's fine with just 1 slot).
- Lingering Rad: 2 Acc 3 Rechg and maybe a Slow.
- Choking Cloud: not a great fan, you already have loads of control. If you really want it, slot 3 EndRdx.
- EQ: the base Def_Debuf is 10%, so you don't need to slot more just stack Quicksand and/or RI each of which gives you 25%.
- VG: no need for Acc, just 3 Rechg 3 Hold.
- Stoney: 2 Acc 3 Dmg, not worth slotting for stun which is kind of unreliable.
- EM Pulse; 2 Acc 1-2 Hold 2-3 Rechg.
- Get Hasten instead of Mutation or Fallout, and preferably sooner.
- Stalagmites + Stone Cages works as a ghetto AoE hold for when VG (or EMP) is down, although admittedly at higher level, you might not need it with all the control you have.

You can do a lot more with IOs but maybe that's for later?

Have fun!

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I am interested to know why you think that SpecTerror/SnowS/Freezing Rain are slotted to their detriment?

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As Carni said, you're focusing on set bonuses at the expense of the power's effectiveness. For example, it will be very hard to run Steamy Mist (which needs some +res btw) and Snow Storm without more EndRdx. Flash will not be very useful without more Rechg. Group Invis and Freezing Rain will be down quite a bit with your current slotting, PA could use a 3rd Rechg, IW needs as much Rechg as possible, etc. You should really look into what the last 5th or 6th slots bring you in some cases and decide whether it's worth it. Also, I would drop Mental Blast, either Psi Tornado or Hurricane are better imo. And take Hasten! You're a troller!

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Personally i would prefer mind as Earth's animations are. really annoying. I thought Mind has the most controlling tools than Earth.

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Earth's animation can be a bit overpowering in some maps, but you quickly get used to it and in some cases this can be a advantage since it's quite clear when a mob is mezzed. You can argue that Earth and Ice are the most 'control-oriented' primaries since all their powers (except pets) are about control (even if some do slight damage) while Mind has Levitate which is really an attack with some knockup and 3 powers are just AoE versions of single-target ones (only 2 for Earth and Ice). So if you look at what each has to offer:

Earth: holds (including the best AoE one from controller primaries), immobs, knockdown, -def, -tht, -fly, -jump, -speed, sleep, stun.
Ice: holds, immobs, -speed, -rechg, confuse, knockdown, sleep, -stealth.
Mind: holds, confuse, sleep, knockup, repel, fear.

Rad is of course a great secondary, which is why it's probably the most common along with /kin. So it just depends how 'different' you want to be .

Anything /TA or /sonic would not be FotM; otherwise /storm is quite underused (except with ice/ and to a lesser extent with fire/ and ill/). Some good combos I can think of are ill/TA, fire/sonic, grav/storm, earth/storm, mind/TA, ice/sonic.

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Does anyone know what the best hard control (lockdown) primary to take?

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earth followed by ice and mind.

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Also need a secondary which is team friendly, and possibly with some debuff element

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earth/TA ftw!!!111!!!

A few comments based on my experience with Thugs/Dark:

- the Thugs and the Bruiser can be basically slotted for Acc and Dmg, but you should slot the Enforcers for Def_Buf and once you can use HOs, slot some Enzymes in them. It's true that once the henches use AoEs, they can run out of endurance, so you might slot an EndRdx in the Thugs and Bruiser.
- Equip Thugs: I just use 1 EndRdx although I have Hasten.
- HT: nice to have although I would take Shadow Fall before it.
- Upgrade Equipment: I use 1 EndRdx 1 Rechg. You might be over-slotting it.
- Dark Servant: it will need 3 Rechgs if you want it perma (2 with Hasten). I focused on the Tht_Debuf more than the Heal and 1 Acc is enough.
- You really want the AoE immob. I took the same patron and it's very helpful to keep the mobs withing the damage zone of you henches' AoEs.
- Petrifying Gaze: nice, but not essential.
- Maneuvers: you'll need 1-2 EndRdx if you plan to have it toggled on.

Overall, this is quite close to what I used before HOs and IOs, but I've since moved respecced into a mixed build since you can get some good bonuses and the pet uniques can be nice to have (especially the +res and +def).

I do and I have them both on my /sonic troller, so will test it again although the numbers for trollers are lower (-22.5% each). Even if you stack more -res from your secondary, I can't see how you can get to x3 damage.

They each give 30% -res so I don't see how the damage can be tripled. You sure there weren't any other (de)buffs involved?

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At lvl 30 I could triple the amount of damage a team mate was doing on a given target.

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Ermmm... and how exactly?

Base is 9% +tht so not even close (to SOs) when fully slotted.

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anyone?

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Xanthus wrote a good sonic/sonic guide which is in the Guides section (although it was written before IOs).

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for a solo toon in pvp its either scrapper, tanker, brute, stalker.

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Yeah, controllers, defenders, blasters, corrupters etc sucks!

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Not sure what Psy is smoking...

End drain is not viable against AVs but it can work against some foes if you have -recov (which /elec does) and I would also vote for Power since PBU will also work with several of your Rad powers (holds, slow, heal, etc.). That's what I plan to take on my kin/elec anyway, including the shield which can never hurt.

And for those of us who didn't get their fire/kins PLed, the road to uberness is long and arduous. Damage is not that spectacular before Fulcrum, soloing is hard before imps, and endurance is a nightmare before Transference (ok, maybe IOs help a bit now, mine hit 50 back in I6). So we kind of deserve it .

Oh and for farming, perma IW ftw!!!111!!!

I haven't IOed my Grav troller, so I would tend to follow Carni's slotting advice. 3 slots on Crushing Field is enough if you use SOs, but you might get more out of procs and set bonuses if you can move slots there.

Regarding Epics, I also have Primal on my Grav troller (although his secondary is Sonic), but am considering swapping to Psi (for IW + Sonic Dispersion). Ice is good since you get Hibern00b early (I have it on my Ice/Storm) and the defense-based shield works well with /FF. Ice Storm is a great AoE attack but comes rather late at 47. If you really want a heal, then go for Stone, but again, you'll have to wait until you can fully slot EE (just make sure you skip the crappy Hurl Boulder).

Oh, and I don't know if you're choosing Ice Mastery because of concept (or 'sounds like fun'), or if you want a defense-based shield. If it's the latter, you might consider Stone which gives you a decent AoE attack (Fissure) and an excellent panic button in Earth's Embrace.

- The damage of Ice Blast is really poor nowadays, so I would probably skip it since you already have Lift, Crush and Propel. If you keep it, consider moving a slot into GDF instead.
- Crushing Field: with SOs, I'd slot 2 Acc 1 EndRdx. Doesn't really need more than that.
- Wormhole: I like having a Range in there. YMMV.
- Sing: once you're high enough, consider getting some Dmg/Mez HOs. Since it uses both Crush and Lift, you get good return from slotting damage.
- Ice Storm: 3 Damage first and as many Rechg as you can (no need for EndRdx).

Hope some of this helps!

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Also is it just really unsporting to not let MMs summon first? or it just funny?

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Its unsporting. No mastermind in there right mind would agree to an arena match that didn't allow them to summon and prepare their minions. Its like fighting a Broadsword scrapper that isn't allowed to use his sword...

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Sorry to disagree with you on this Pious (we've argued about this before ). I just can't see the logic in expecting that the MM (even when that's me) should be given time to fully summon/upgrade before starting the fight (same as the 'no insps' logic). As others have said, you can summon fairly quickly and then it's a matter of choosing when/who to upgrade first or what to do to counter an attack if you opponent tries rushing you. Same as a tank/scrapper/brute saying 'please wait for me to toggle all shields on before attacking' or a dom/troller with his pets (I know, it's longer for an MM). The funniest was when another MM tried to rush me with his blasts before either of us had summoned (thinking he had the advantage since I have no blasts). I still had enough time to summon the bruiser, drop DN on him, and watch him go down while I kept summoning. Of course, it's trickier against other ATs but it's all part of learning to PvP imo.

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After tried of AR/Dark for two levels. I find Radiant Aura is more usefull than Twilight Grasp.

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Hopefully, you didn't base your decision on that: TG is a much better power than RA! The heal is stronger and it also has -regen -dmg and -tht. The only drawback is that it requires a tht check.

PS you should try fire/dark some day

Dispersion Bubble gives protection against immobs (and def to all dmg types), IW doesn't. IW gives protection against sleep, confuse and fear, DB doesn't. An why would you not want Mag 20 protection vs holds and stuns???

I agree, but you know what can happen with phase powers and bad teams... At least now the animations are much more visible, but it will still annoy some people when you use them.

From Gravity, you can probably skip Lift or Crush (each has its dis/advantages) as well as Dimension Shift (unless you really like AoE phase powers). Propel has nice damage with Containment but becomes less and less useful in higher levels.

From Sonic, you can probably skip Sonic Cage (same as above, but single-target), Sonic Repulsion and even Liquefy (some people like it, I don't). Disruption Field is not a must-have if you solo a lot, but I found it very handy (especially now that it doesn't draw all the aggro to you ).

Grav/Sonic is a good debuffing/mezzing combo (although the synergy is not always the best), but can be very frustrating to solo, so make sure you find teams and slot lots of EndRdx in those toggles.

Go Stand!

For even level SOs, IOs are better even before 30. Clicky.

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also dark has siphon life and energy aura is missing a self heal, not sure if siphon life is up to the job but id imagine it would be.

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Unfortunately not. I had the same problem with my dark/elec and ended up respeccing into Medicine. Made a huge difference.

Buff them with both, they get different powers (e.g. Tactics with 1st upgrade for Enforcers, Assault with 2nd). Some people don't like the 2nd upgrade for the Bruiser since he starts using Hurl, but I never found it to be that much of a problem if you place him correctly.