Oedipus_Tex

I had some more practice with Bonfire and actually discovered that I kind of like it.

Basically I think it's intended as a kind of "Wall of Fire" power. Great for creating impassable choke points. The fast recharge basically ensures its always available.

Personal favorite moment: throwing bonfire into a room full of enemies standing in one of those small conference rooms on an office map. I've found if I position the center right on the middle of the table that the resulting damage and control is unparalleled.

The power also saved my team yesterday! Half the team was still loading onto the map when someone accidentally pulled a nearby group. I dropped Bonfire right under my feet and it threw everything away from us.

I can already see the damage potential for AVs. In this respect its kind of like Tornado.

Which one of you is the Scrapper who died 11 times in my mission yesterday?

Seriously I have no problem with a well played Scrapper. But renegade team members are something else altogether. If your way of letting us know you want us to move faster is turning your health bar red, you're going to get let go.

[ QUOTE ]
I see more time wasted by 8 people attacking the last mob in a group and the tanker not going to the next group to prep the next group for the aoe goodness that no doubt the team has.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. But this is not what I was talking about.

[ QUOTE ]
I also see more wasted time by the lack of thought some have when they are "left" fighting a single or two mobs to die. If you know your hero or villain lacks the ability to finish the job, is it really so hard a concept to move forward with the 7 other people on you team thus bringing the one or two mobs along be taken care of?

[/ QUOTE ]

Consider this combination of facts:
- A Controller's powers hold things in place
- A Controller without support might be lucky to survive 5 attacks from a boss, and sometimes as few as 2

Once the mob is mezzed, its not going anywhere, but it sure does remember the last person who attacked it. So there is no way I'm going to chance running off to the next group so the boss, who was previously frozen, can come charging down the hallway and shoot me at range before I stack control on it again. What I'd really be hoping for is someone who specializes in single-target damage (like, say, a Scrapper) to take the boss out so I don't have to play hide-and-go-seek with it while trying to deal with the next group.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, if the scrapper aggros and there is a tanker on the team, doesn't the tanker grab aggro? And in those scenarios where the scrapper has run off and aggroed a second group, why aren't you following the designated "tanker" and let the scrapper die? (trick question cause you know the scrapper will live!)

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, if the Tanker guesses correctly and picks the same group to attack, and everyone else in the group realizes it was just the impatient Scrapper who jumped in the fight and holds their shots until after the Tanker makes it in.

Right.

Well put me in 3 warnings and then /kick group. The reason this playstyle drives me crazy is that it wastes MY time as a support team member trying to figure out who just attacked what and whether its safe to assist them yet. While you might have defenses good enough to survive multiple things shooting at you, I and the rest of the squishies generally don't, and a Scrapper's ability to protect me if I miscalculate aggro is about zero.

And if you are wondering why the tank is standing around while you are running in, its often because s/he is trying to make sure not run toward the group she was *originally* planning to attack before you went charging in. There's a reason most teams designate a single person to lead the charge. It's to make sure everyone is shooting at the same group so the Blaster doesn't end up peeling aggro off the Scrapper in a mob she expected to be Taunted and fully controlled, while the Controllers blow their AoEs on the group next door. When someone runs in unexpectedly it's jarring and forces all other team members to recalculate their next move. How would you like it if the Storm Defender decided it would be more fun if they dropped a Tornado on the next mob because they felt like, it's fun for them, and it works when solo?

Further, I can't tell you how many times I've been playing an Ice or Earth Controller with a maximum damage output of around 20 when the team ran off and left me face to face with a pair of bosses who con pink to me. Extra credit goes to the Scrappers who do this while never actually turning off Super Speed as they run and aggro each new mob.

All of this said, it's not that I don't think a Scrapper can handle the alpha. It's more about communicating with the team and making sure we understand what you're doing. If the Tanker is designated as the, err, tank, that's who the group is expecting to follow. When you tear off on your own you at best waste our time while we rethink the situation and at worst get us all killed because we make the wrong decision.

Another quick question for you guys. Last time I tried running Hot Feet on a team I started pulling aggro like crazy. I got fussed at by the team's Empath for taking too much damage and haven't really turned Hot Feet on while grouped since. It seemed very strange that I would be pulling aggro when doing such minor damage. I later discovered the team's Willpower tank didn't have Taunt. Is there a trick to using Hot Feet, should I blame the tank, or is there a mixture of problems?

Thanks again for the replies.

I am pretty much 100% a team-oriented player, although there are times when no teams are available.

I did consider the switch from Tactics to Clarity, but when I looked at everything available to me, am not sure it's a wise move. Right now, running Sonic Dispersion + Assault + Tactics results in the team having:
* -6.92 Held, Stun, Immob
* -60% Taunt, Placate duration (pretty much useless in PvE)
* -5.19 Confuse (again very rare in PvE)
* +69% Perception
* +51% Perception debuff resistance
* -60% fear, confuse duration

The only extra effect Clarity brings is higher magnitude protection, protection from Fear (rare in PvE) and immunity to Sleep. However, Clarity lasts only 90 seconds and doesn't grant the +10% ToHit that Tactics does. Adding another toggle on top of an already toggle-heavy build hurts, but there is always the option to only turn it on when it's needed (mimicking the way you'd normally use Clarity).

On Bonfire, I have figured out that it can be used kind of like Tornado from the Storm set, if you manage to trap something in a corner. You can also catch something in a hold or immob and put a Bonfire underneath and whittle away HP much like Tornado, but its very draining to maintain because you have to quickly refresh the root and if it expires the Bonfire doesnt chase the person down.

Cinders seems like a clone of Glacier and Flash which I was never impressed with. With slotting they become "okay," but Flash I tend to skip and Glacier I only took because I happened to be spending time in melee anyway.

Thanks for the tip.

Is there anyone who can offer advice regarding Hotfeet and Bonfire? I have both and I'm a little bit... lost on what to do with them. Right now the bulk of my controlling when on teams is throwing Flashfire at the start of the fight and then shooting Char and Sonic Siphon at various enemies. Cinders never hits and is on a 4 minute recharge, hopefully it gets better when slotted.

Hi all,

I'm taking a stab at my first Fire/ Controller. I know that Fire/Kin and Fire/Radiation are pretty much the standard, so I've tried something a little different with Fire/Sonic. I've done Earth/, Illusion/, and Ice/ before, but Fire is totally new to me.

What I'm finding right now is that I'm getting a ton of use out of the /Sonic side of the build, and not a whole lot of Fire/. I think a lot of it is I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be doing with the powers I have. Am I shooting for damage? Control? Both? Outside of Flashfire, I'm not seeing a lot of potential yet for either.

The character is currently level 26. Here's the build plan going forward. Any advice is appreciated!

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Sonic Resonance
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(3), Hold-I:50(3), Hold-I:50(5), RechRdx-I:50(5), RechRdx-I:50(7)
Level 1: Sonic Siphon -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(15), RechRdx-I:50(19)
Level 2: Sonic Barrier -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(7), EndRdx-I:50(9)
Level 4: Fire Cages -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(11), EndRdx-I:50(15), Immob-I:50(36), Immob-I:50(46)
Level 6: Sonic Haven -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(9), EndRdx-I:50(11)
Level 8: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(36)
Level 12: Flashfire -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(13), Dsrnt-I:50(13), Dsrnt-I:50(19), RechRdx-I:50(31), RechRdx-I:50(31)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Clrty-Stlth:50(A)
Level 16: Disruption Field -- EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(17), EndRdx-I:50(17)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I:50(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(21), EndMod-I:50(21)
Level 22: Sonic Dispersion -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(23), ResDam-I:50(23), EndRdx-I:50(36), EndRdx-I:50(39)
Level 24: Cinders -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(25), RechRdx-I:50(25), RechRdx-I:50(31), Hold-I:50(37), Hold-I:50(40)
Level 26: Hot Feet -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(27), Dmg(27), Dmg(34), Acc(37), Slow(37)
Level 28: Bonfire -- RechRdx-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(29), Dmg-I:50(29)
Level 30: Assault -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(33), Acc-I:50(33), Acc-I:50(33), Dmg-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(34)
Level 35: Tactics -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 38: Liquefy -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(39), Acc-I:50(39), Acc-I:50(40), DefDeb-I:50(40), DefDeb-I:50(42)
Level 41: Fire Ball -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(42), Dmg-I:50(42), Dmg-I:50(43), EndRdx-I:50(43), RechRdx-I:50(43)
Level 44: Fire Shield -- ResDam(A), ResDam(45), ResDam(45), EndRdx(45), EndRdx(46), S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(46)
Level 47: Consume -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(48), Acc-I:50(48), Acc-I:50(48), EndMod-I:50(50), EndMod-I:50(50)
Level 49: Fire Blast -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment



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With invisible tanks, its not so much about maintaining aggro as about where the alpha goes. If the tank is invisible there's a chance some enemies won't see him/her at first. A Controller or Blaster might then use an AoE that grabs the mob's attention and causes the well-known instant death shot. A related phenomenon is when a Tanker runs partially into a group instead of all the way; some members don't see him/her at first and so they aggro the squishies when they roll in. Lots of deaths on my Controller are related to this kind of thing.

I would say go Ice/Force Field controller. Ice's inherent ability is -Recharge, which slows enemy attacks way, way down. Once you've capped the -Recharge, enemies attack x4 less often. Ice is also unique in that its most effective control power, Arctic Air, is a toggle. During most fights, you open with Shiver (a huge cone), then run into melee and (if you're a /FF)... mostly stand there and watch enemies succumb to Arctic Air, firing single target holds at the stragglers. On the Force Field side, you will have to replenish bubbles every so often, but for the most part most of your powers are passive toggles as well. once you get Dispersion Bubble you're also largely immune to the number one Ice/ killer, which is getting mezzed (hence dropping toggles). Soloing will be extremely rough until you get a pet, though.

If you're looking for something similar but slightly more aggressive, consider Ice/Sonic.

I think a good solo Blaster build is Ice/Ice. Lots of control there, great damage, and a nuke that out-nukes them all.

This isn't limited to just the normal things you'd think of as "pets" either.

Powers that I know (unfortunately, from experience) end when you die are:
- Tornado
- Lightning Storm
- Ice Slick
- Earthquake
- Volcanic Gasses
- Quicksand
- Phantom Army (mentioned above)
- Disruption Arrow
- Freezing Rain
- Liquify

...and basically any other semi-persistant effect that is tied to a location on the ground instead of to a player or enemy. Sonic shields, for example, do not drop, but Liquify does.

I actually have a level 30 Illusion controller and didn't know Blind causes sleep...

Ok I'm allowed one more self-response. I forgot to mention that the reason Teleport Other might serve you well is that you can use it to teleport both the living and the dead. The dead can then use wakies instead of burning half your endurance bar and a 5 minute cooldown. A rezz-nuke *sounds* nice, but you have to be standing on top of the person to use it, the nuke itself draws aggro (I can't tell you how many times its gone off and I died seconds later from the return fire). The power also has a period of "untouchableness" in which they can't be harmed or healed, which can be nice, but often just means you've got someone you just raised with half HP and no thermal shields who can now draw aggro, survive for a few seconds, then drop dead again because they are unshielded and unhealed when the invulnerability drops.

Responding to myself here. The last build I posted failed to really take into account your possibility of skipping a the travel power pre-req. I reanalyzed it and came up with this suggestion instead:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 48 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Thermal Radiation
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: (Empty) - travel power
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Warmth -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Thermal Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Fire Cages -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Cauterize -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Plasma Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Flashfire -- Empty(A)
Level 14: (empty) - travel power -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Cinders -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Hot Feet -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Thaw -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Bonfire -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Forge -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Assault -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Heat Exhaustion -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Melt Armor -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Fire Ball -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Fire Shield -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Fire Blast -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Power of the Phoenix -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment

I'm not a huge expert on Fire (actually, I've never used it) but /Thermal I know a bit about.

Comments:

- I don't see Hot Feet in this build. I'm definitely not an expert on it but Hot Feet always seemed like one of the prime Fire powers to me. It could be my Ice/ instinct kicking in though. Reading the info on Cinders, it looks like you will have to be in melee sometimes anyway.

- Not too sure about Assault and Tactics. There are so many good powers in Thermal and Fire (and for Controllers in general) it's hard for me to say that the extra 15% damage is worth it. Tactics in particular stands out as an odd pick for me, unless you are picking it to increase the perception of your imps?

- Power of the Phoenix is THE most endurance draining power available to Controllers. I wrangled over this power for a long time before coming to a conclusion: Empathy does rezzing so much better, faster and cheaper that I'm better off leaving it to them. Thermal has so many other things going for it that conceding the rezz isn't a huge loss. If you still want it, I'd take it very late in the build, like at level 49. If you were simply looking for a power that is 'team-friendly', I'd recommend taking Teleport Other or Grant Invisibility in its place, which you will get much more use out of.

- I dont really know how the 60 month veteran award works... basically its lets you get around travel power pre-reqs?


A possible build plan (this assumes you somehow get to skip the pre-reqs for your travel power; if you can't do this the power I'd probably pass on is Assault):

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

FireTherm: Level 48 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Thermal Radiation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- (A)
Level 1: Warmth -- (A)
Level 2: Thermal Shield -- (A)
Level 4: Fire Cages -- (A)
Level 6: Hover -- (A)
Level 8: Swift -- (A)
Level 10: Plasma Shield -- (A)
Level 12: Assault -- (A)
Level 14: [Empty]
Level 16: Flashfire -- (A)
Level 18: Health -- (A)
Level 20: Stamina -- (A)
Level 22: Hot Feet -- (A)
Level 24: Cinders -- (A)
Level 26: Cauterize -- (A)
Level 28: Forge -- (A)
Level 30: Thaw -- (A)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- (A)
Level 35: Heat Exhaustion -- (A)
Level 38: Melt Armor -- (A)
Level 41: Bonfire -- (A)
Level 44: Fire Ball -- (A)
Level 47: Fire Shield -- (A)
Level 49: Power of the Phoenix -- (A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- (A)
Level 1: Sprint -- (A)
Level 2: Rest -- (A)
Level 1: Containment

My only 50 is an Ice/Thermal. You are correct that it is a very varied set capable of doing a number of things. Overall, I think your set looks very solid.

Comments:
-I'd swap Plasma Shield and Cauterize. The shield, IMO, will do you more good. You will miss Cauterize, but you will still have Warmth to work with early on.

- I'm not the biggest fan of Hasten for Ice. This is a personal taste thing. I get a lot of use out of Air Superiority in that spot. If you have vet attacks, your experience may be different.

- I'd change the order of the epic pool to Ice Blast &gt; Frozen Armor &gt; Frost breath &gt; Hibernate, and drop Ice Storm altogether. Ice Storm is an okay power, but lasts 15 seconds and is on a 120 second recharge. Hibernate is a great power, but only really needs recharge speed enhancers (3 slotted max) compared to Frozen Armor or Ice Blast which benefit from more slotting.

- I agree your decision to take both Arctic Air and Shiver. Combined you should be able to cap the -Recharge of +4 enemies.

Thanks guys!

I'm definitely leaning hard toward rerolling the more I look at the possibilities. I hate to start over, but the fact is I never play this guy anymore. I knew Dark Armor would be a challenge, but I wasn't prepared to face plant every mob.

I'm still up to try Dark Armor again. I'm looking at Energy Melee as a possible replacement for Fire. It looks to have stuns that Fire lacks... do you all think performance would be greatly improved by switching?

My very first tank, rolled up last year, was a concept build. He was based on a Mayan god of shadows conflated with a god of fire, about whom my hero read about on the Internet and decided to model himself after. I am very attached to the resulting character. However...

...this is the *hardest* character I've ever played. His first 25 levels were just brutal. He constantly ran out of endurance and ended up standing around, even after getting Stamina. Additionally, surviving an alpha attack is very dicey. It's really embarrassing to be on a team and have the other tank (who was taking close to no damage) leave, and drop dead on the very next spawn because my character can't take the punishment. Even with a fully slotted Dark Regeneration his death rate is really alarming.

Now that I know more about the game, I know that Fire is doing little to help me survive. The character is level 33 and I rarely play him anymore. I have respecced him once, and that helped a little, but still the deaths continue.

So, can this character be saved? Or is he forever going to be a second rate tanker and a third rate scrapper?

Here's a rebuild I'm considering if I continue to level him up. Let me know if you think this build would continue to cause problems. The key change is switching out Combat Jumping for Flurry for the chance for Stun, which hopefully gives some minor chance of stacking with Oppressive Gloom, and dropping Cloak of Darkness for a stealth in Super Speed. Thanks for any help you can provide!

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Zotzilaha: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(3), ResDam-I:50(3), EndRdx-I:50(11), EndRdx-I:50(15), EndRdx-I:50(17)
Level 1: Scorch -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(37), Dmg-I:50(46)
Level 2: Murky Cloud -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(5), S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(5), EndRdx-I:50(11), EndRdx-I:50(17), Aegis-Psi/Status:50(33)
Level 4: Combustion -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(19), Acc-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(37)
Level 6: Obsidian Shield -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(7), EndRdx-I:50(7), EndRdx-I:50(46)
Level 8: Dark Regeneration -- Theft-+End%:30(A), Acc-I:50(9), RechRdx-I:50(9), RechRdx-I:50(13), EndRdx-I:50(13), EndRdx-I:50(15)
Level 10: Taunt -- Taunt-I:50(A), Taunt-I:50(31)
Level 12: Flurry -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(37), Dsrnt-I:50(45)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Clrty-Stlth:50(A)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(19)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(21), EndMod-I:50(21)
Level 22: Death Shroud -- Dmg-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(23), Acc-I:50(23), Acc-I:50(25), EndRdx-I:50(25), EndRdx-I:50(33)
Level 24: Build Up -- ToHit-I:50(A), ToHit-I:50(31), RechRdx-I:50(40), RechRdx-I:50(40), GSFC-Build%:50(40)
Level 26: Oppressive Gloom -- Amaze-ToHitDeb%:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(27), EndRdx-I:50(27), Acc-I:50(29), Dsrnt-I:50(29), Dsrnt-I:50(33)
Level 28: Fire Sword Circle -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(31), Dmg-I:50(42), Dmg-I:50(43), EndRdx-I:50(43), EndRdx-I:50(43)
Level 30: Breath of Fire -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(34)
Level 32: Boxing -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(36), Dsrnt-I:50(46)
Level 35: Incinerate -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(36), Dmg-I:50(36)
Level 38: Tough -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(39), ResDam-I:50(39), ResDam-I:50(39)
Level 41: Char -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(42), Hold-I:50(42), Hold-I:50(48), Lock-%Hold:50(50)
Level 44: Greater Fire Sword -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(45), Dmg-I:50(45), Dmg-I:50(50)
Level 47: Ring of Fire -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(48), Immob-I:50(48), Immob-I:50(50)
Level 49: Soul Transfer -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
[u]Set Bonuses:[u]
[u]Steadfast Protection[u]
(Murky Cloud)<ul type="square">[*] Knockback Protection (Mag -4)[/list][u]Aegis[u]
(Murky Cloud)<ul type="square">[*] 3% Resistance(Psionic)[/list]

(I mostly play Defenders and Controllers, so excuse me for the excited nerd babble that you're about to hear about them.)

Fire for Defenders doesn't bother me. Archery, which was already mentioned, is also an attack set. Fire certainly couldn't be any worse than Lightning, really.

Dark Miasma for Controllers also doesn't bother me. The only problematic power there is Fearsome Stare, which would probably have to be a single-target power to keep it from stacking too easily with Mind Control's Terrify. The rest of the set has corollaries in powers already available:
- Twilight Grasp is akin to Kinetic's heal. Not the same, but a similar concept.
- Tar Patch is a blend of effects available to Trick Arrow
- Darkest Night is similar to debuffs available to Radiation
- Shadow Fall is very similar to Rising Mists
- Petrifying Gaze is almost the same power as Trick Arrow's Ice Arrow
- Dark Servant, as a temporary pet, is akin to Lightning Storm or Tornado. To adjust it for Controllers, give it the same recharge Masterminds get (500 seconds)

Overall I think Dark would be a good, but not overpowering set for Controllers. Remember that Controllers already get Trick Arrow, which is basically a Control set in itself.

In other news:

Thermal for Defenders is such low hanging fruit it's hard to believe it hasn't made the leap yet. With some adjustments to bring the shields up, the endurance cost of healing down, and perhaps a reduction in the recharge time on the rezz, this set is ready to roll.

Excellent information in the first post. Just to stir the pot, there are a few additional factors I think we need to consider:

- The value of having 100% HP. This game provides binary protection against one-hit kills. Either you are protected against one shot-kills or you are not. You are protected anytime your HP are full. Defense helps you avoid incoming shots, making it less likely your HP are less than 100% and less likely that the follow up shot hits. Healing restores lost HP to 100%, reapplying the protection, but the heal needs to be timed between shots. Resistance needs to regen the HP. Most tanks aren't worried about one-shot kills, but...

- ...tanks aren't the only people getting hit. While it may be true in very controlled groups that most of the damage is directed at the tank, eventually something is going to take a shot at someone else. Two swings from a boss can easily kill a Controller; one if the Controller has already taken 1 more points of damage.

- Masterminds. The feasibility of keeping pets protected with shields is much lower with single-target powers than with area effects. A /Thermal, for example, is far better off keeping shields on the team members only and relying on Warmth for the pets.

- The added risk of debuffs. Debuffs are powerful but draw aggro. If not timed right, or if adds show up sometimes you face the risk of...

- ...the cascading effect of removing people from the fight. Players die. They get disconnected. They lag. They get mezzed. If a healing player dies, he or she can't continue to react to damage. The buffing player's buffs may continue to run for a while, although a portion of the protection is lost. Most of the very powerful Controller powers, and the debuffs offered by Storm and Radiation are canceled immediately.

Anyway, great discussion. Glad to discuss this rationally!

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And this is where you jump the shark. You accuse people of "hating healers" and point to Empaths who do the exact opposite, but equally stupid thing, to support your position that "a healer is helpful".

Most people who hate healers aren't saying that healing is bad and should be avoided. I hate healers, and I know the value of a heal and expect a heal to be used when the time comes to use it. I hate people who do NOTHING but SPAM heals endlessly.

It's really that simple.

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The trouble is you are arguing with phantoms. So far in this thread no one has said they think a player who stands in the back and only heals is pulling their weight. The closest you can get is someone who said that he'd prefer a Empath who turned on auto aura to one who turned on auto blasts, which is kind of like saying he prefers skinning his knee to getting a splinter.

If there are people who believe in pacifist healers who exist, they are either laying low, avoiding this thread, or not interested posting. Regardless, inventing them out of people who use the word "healer" while explaining that they do not think it means "only healing" is fruitless.

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Yeah SS is my favorite TP also. It was the first one I ever took and I loved it much more than SJ or Fly. I did start as a Tech origin, so I'm good to go I think . Thanks for all the input everyone else, I am probably teaming exclusively, as I usually do, so ST damage isn't a big + or - for me in any respects.

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In this case you might skip the melee attack I suggested and take Hasye at level 8. This will give you room for both Acid and Posion Gas arrow.

It looks like you have a very solid build.

Advice I'd offer:
- Combat Jumping when slotted will add about 3.5% to all of your defenses. You have to weigh this against whether you'd benefit more from taking Flurry, Jump Kick or Air Superiority, because Ice's damage is terrible, especially prior to getting epic attacks.

- Ice Storm is a decent power but on a brutal 120 second recharge. I'd recommend Ice Blast instead unless you are picking up Ice Storm more for concept reasons.

- I'm going to disagree with the person who said take Shiver before Arctic Air. It's a matter of preference, but IMO you want to take and slot AA at level 6 and slot it up fully at the expense of all other powers. At low levels put mostly -Endurance drain in there, with 1 or 2 Confusion enhancers. As you level up and get access to better enhancers, start shifting the ratio. You will have to turn the power off and on until you get Stamina but it is worth it. Enemies are reduced to mindless drones by this power; it is truly the best thing Ice brings to the table, and unfortunately Shiver can't duplicate its effects.

- I agree with your decision to take both Shiver and Arctic Air. A lot of guides I've read said not to do this, but after playing the set for a while and reading about how -Recharge works on higher level enemies, I think having both makes you much more useful on teams. Plus it lets you hang back a little in situations when it's just way to risky to run to melee for AA.

- I agree with your decision to skip Glue Arrow. On a different Controller it would be nice to have, on an Ice Controller your AoE cages provide better -Recharge by themselves, to say nothing of the huge -Recharge and Slow you get from Shiver + Arctic Air, which should cap a default +4 enemies recharge rate.

- I would probably skip Flash Arrow in favor of Chillblain. It's unusual for me to recommend taking both the AoE cage and the single-target cage, but with Trick Arrow you start with Entangling Arrow which you can stack for ridiculous Immobilize magnitude, and Flash Arrow is just not, IMO, a very useful power (although some people like it). Again, as Ice you will be hurting for the extra damage Chillblain will bring.

- As useful as Hibernate is, the only real enhancer I've ever found worth slotting into it is recharge speed. I'd make it the last epic power pick so that you can use your slots on the epic powers that need them more, like your attacks and Frozen Armor. Disregard this if you are using Hibernate as a repository for set bonuses.

- I'm torn about Acid Arrow vs Poison Gas Arrow. The sleep on Poison Gas is usually pretty useless (especially because it is only mag 2), but the -20% damage buff across a 25 foot radius definitely is not. Acid Arrow is nice but very very clicky. The power description makes it sound like an AoE but in truth it's got a radius of just 8 ft.

Here's how I might build the character:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Level 48 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Trick Arrow
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Block of Ice (A)
Level 1: Entangling Arrow (A)
Level 2: Frostbite (A)
Level 4: Chilblain (A)
Level 6: Arctic Air (A)
Level 8: [Empty] - Travel power prereq
Level 10: Ice Arrow (A)
Level 12: Ice Slick (A)
Level 14: [Empty] - Travel power
Level 16: Swift OR Hurdle (A)
Level 18: Health (A)
Level 20: Stamina (A)
Level 22: Shiver (A)
Level 24: Poison Gas Arrow OR Acid Arrow (A)
Level 26: Glacier (A)
Level 28: Disruption Arrow (A)
Level 30: Hasten (A)
Level 32: Jack Frost (A)
Level 35: Oil Slick Arrow (A)
Level 38: EMP Arrow (A)
Level 41: Ice Blast (A)
Level 44: Frozen Armor (A)
Level 47: Frost Breath (A)
Level 49: Hibernate (A)

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However, I don't believe we've reached a general agreement as to what a "healer" really is, in CoX terms.

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Actually, I think we have. "Healer" is defined as whatever you've decided your opponents define it as so that you can condemn them and seem to take the moral highground while declaring them idiots.