Oedipus_Tex
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Posts
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Joined
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I think it's premature to judge the set until we've actually seen it. Without knowing the recharge rate, cast time, pulse rate, mezz duration, damage output, secondary effects, etc, It's not possible to judge the power set. All we know right now is "pulsing sleep" and "chained knockdown" which doesn't tell us a whole lot except for flavor.
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Thanks guys.
Ketch, I agree with you about Ice Control being especially hard to IO. The two best controls, Arctic Air and Ice Slick, don't measurably contribute to bonuses.
I will be keeping both Arctic Air and Shiver for some of the reasons described above. I'm also doing it because I think building on the assumption that you are "always melee" or "always ranged" is too limiting. I'm building on the assumption that I will go to melee when the situation allows it (Force Field defender on team, good tank, enemies with few mezzes etc) and hang back when that's more beneficial. I also find it helpful to be able to camp in a spot with one sub-group of enemies and fire Shiver into other groups nearby when I can't fit all of them into Arctic Air or when it's too dangerous to get into the middle, so I just tap a few guys at the edge in hopes the Contagious Confusion proc catches some of them (works pretty well actually) and use Shiver to keep the rest from shooting as fast.
The reason I think I will keep Cauterize is how effective it is at keeping the pet alive. Heat Exhaustion is certainly not a bad power; actually, the "problem" is the combo doesn't have enough truly bad powers. I always run into that with Thermal builds--you're always having to skip a power or two you'd like to have. My logic is that skipping a good power doesn't hurt you any more than playing a set that simply has fewer good powers overall. (That is, a character with a set like Kinetics or Force Field isn't necessarily "better off" than a Thermal just because the powers they decided to skip were not very good.) I need to think about it some more. The good news in the meantime is the build is relatively cheap. -
Hey guys,
I just recently went back and took a look at my first 50, who as an Ice/Therm troller. I asked if anyone had a build back then and no one did. Now I finally feel like I have something that's ok-ish, with capped Slash/Lethal defense.
The main casualty of the build is Heat Exhaustion; I just can't find a way to put it in without losing something important elsewhere or dropping below capped defense. IMO the power is ok but very specialized. If I could find 4 points of slash/lethal defense somewhere I could drop Maneuvers for it... but that's unlikely to find for this combo I think.
[EDIT: I realize I could probably do it with the Earth epic pool. However unless and/or until we can recolor the Earth armor blue so it looks like Ice I'm avoiding that option.]
Here is the build as it stands:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.621
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Solar Winter: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Thermal Radiation
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Block of Ice -- CtlSpd-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A), CtlSpd-Acc/Slow(3), CtlSpd-Acc/EndRdx(5), CtlSpd-Dmg/Slow(17), HO:Perox(17), HO:Perox(33)
Level 1: Warmth -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(23), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Dct'dW-Rchg(42)
Level 2: Thermal Shield -- RctvArm-EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(13), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(43), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(46)
Level 4: Cauterize -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(5), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(23), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Dct'dW-Rchg(40)
Level 6: Arctic Air -- CoPers-Conf%(A), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(7), Mlais-Dam%(7), Mlais-EndRdx/Conf(9), Pplx-EndRdx/Conf(9)
Level 8: Shiver -- CtlSpd-Acc/Slow(A), CtlSpd-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(19), CtlSpd-Acc/EndRdx(37), CtlSpd-Rng/Slow(37)
Level 10: Plasma Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(11), RctvArm-ResDam(11), RctvArm-EndRdx(15)
Level 12: Ice Slick -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Frostbite -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(15), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(19), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(31), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(42), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(42)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Thaw -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(37), RctvArm-ResDam(39), RctvArm-EndRdx(43)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Glacier -- UbrkCons-Hold(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(27), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(27), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(29), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(29)
Level 28: Forge -- Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit(31), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(33)
Level 32: Jack Frost -- SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg(A), SvgnRt-Dmg/EndRdx(33), SvgnRt-Acc/EndRdx(34), SvgnRt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SvgnRt-Acc(34), SvgnRt-PetResDam(36)
Level 35: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36)
Level 38: Melt Armor -- AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(A), ShldBrk-Acc/Rchg(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Hibernate -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 44: Frost Breath -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dam%(45), Posi-Dmg/Rng(46), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dam%(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Ninja Run
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Set Bonus Totals:- 16.8% Defense(Smashing)
- 16.8% Defense(Lethal)
- 3% Defense(Fire)
- 3% Defense(Cold)
- 6.75% Defense(Energy)
- 6.75% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 14.6% Defense(Melee)
- 4.88% Defense(Ranged)
- 3% Defense(AoE)
- 4% Enhancement(JumpSpeed)
- 4% Enhancement(JumpHeight)
- 4% Enhancement(FlySpeed)
- 4% Enhancement(RunSpeed)
- 33% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 58.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 8% Enhancement(Heal)
- 3% Enhancement(Immobilize)
- 5% FlySpeed
- 22.9 HP (2.25%) HitPoints
- 5% JumpHeight
- 5% JumpSpeed
- MezResist(Confused) 2.75%
- MezResist(Held) 2.75%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 5.5%
- MezResist(Sleep) 2.75%
- MezResist(Stun) 2.75%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 4.4%
- 15.5% (0.26 End/sec) Recovery
- 30% (1.27 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 10% Resistance(Smashing)
- 10% Resistance(Lethal)
- 18.2% Resistance(Fire)
- 18.2% Resistance(Cold)
- 10% Resistance(Energy)
- 11.9% Resistance(Negative)
- 10% Resistance(Toxic)
- 10% Resistance(Psionic)
- 5% RunSpeed
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Well, part of the desire for heals probably comes from the fact that for the first 15 levels heals are far more powerful mitigation than much of anything else available. Enemy damage is low and slow coming, buffs are still relatively weak, Controllers don't have the recharge worked down on the few AoEs they have, and melee AT armor barely sets them apart from squishies. The effectiveness of heals isn't entirely imagined nor necessarily carried over from WoW/D&D. IMO it's carried over from the objective experience of people who have played low levels and assumed the game at high levels works the same way.
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I think there is room for something more team friendly that is less filler content than a radios. Mission arcs are almost kind of like, "Your team could do this if you just really want to, but I'm going to annoy the heck out of you by making you run all over the world pointlessly. Why don't you just go do that nice radio mission instead? And by the way, only the mission owner will have any idea what's going on or earn special rewards unless all team members sync up their missions exactly. Really. Just do the radio."
Some of the newer missions are better designed but to anyone who mostly PUGs radios do get really tired after a period of time, and mission arcs are just a PITA for all the running around they make you do just to go talk to (read: click on) random NPCs. -
Reading the description of the Praetorian leadership made me think of fascism straight away. I don't find the Loyalist faction, as described, to be altogether palatable with heroism in its most celebrated form. It may be that the Resistance is equally repugnant. However, knowing that other side is as bad or worse doesn't redeem Tyrant's faction in my eyes. This may lead to a situation where an individual simply sees them both like petty, squabbling warlords and wishes to side with neither of them.
I will say that I find the concept of hero and villain sort of ridiculous when applied to real life, although I'm ok with them in this game because they are appropriate to the genre. With this in mind, though, I create my characters less as "real people" and more as "comic book personalities," often thinking of them less as title characters than as minor heroes or villains encountered in the background, often with ambiguous motives like fame, solving a personal mystery, obeying an outside force, making a living, rekindling a television career, and so on. The kinds of "good" and "evil" actions described in this thread are difficult to apply to them.
As to the Batman / Joker train of thought, how much of that is really a commentary on morality versus a marketing decision I have trouble distinguishing. But to look at it as a moral dilemma for a moment, generally speaking I can't say I support my police force killing criminals because "the system doesn't work." I actually think the graphic novel Watchmen covered the subject well (completely lost in the film version) when it explicitly compared costumed heroes to violent and intolerant vigilantes. I don't want to give spoilers, but Praetoria is a world governed by the, uh, "end boss" in Watchmen. I don't think the ends justified the means there nor do I think they will in Praetoria. -
The chained knockdown makes me wonder if it will have an AoE cage power at all. Although both Ice and Earth have knockdown/anti-knockdown conflicts so maybe it will anyway. The standard Electric Fence power is anti-kb so I assume the AoE one would be too.
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One thing this game lacks is civilians who are actually at risk. The game Freedom Force, which was released several years ago, was a super hero RPG with an interesting twist. You had to defeat the bad guys in the missions, but while doing so had to avoid doing collateral damage to citizens and buildings. That meant that even though your AoEs were very powerful you eased off on them in certain situations or used them strategically. You didn't actually lose the mission if a civilian got hurt or a building collapsed, but you did take a small penalty. It gave that game a much greater sense of super-heroism, because you really felt that citizens needed saving.
I think something like that could really work in this game. The penalty, IMO, would be that for one minute after defeating a civilian the character responsible cannot receive drops. That would simply allow it to serve as a minor time barrier. Unfortunately collapsing buildings are unlikely addition to this game (although we do have one in Steel Canyon that explodes).
Villains and Rogues, meanwhile, would not necessarily be penalized for injuring civilians.
Since none of this is likely to materialize, citizens who at least screamed when they went running down the street from a villain would add a dimension of realism. And they should probably run from player Villains as well rather than wave hello. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Draggynn
Well, you were close. It's an "avoid" effect which is what all rain powers use that cause mobs to move out of the rain. It just isn't the fear effect that tornado and LS cause that make mobs run away.
Are you sure? I always thought Afraid and Avoid had nearly identical functioning. Rain of Fire is an "Avoid" and Burn is an "Afraid" but both will send mobs scattering out of the area of effect. I thought the only real difference was that some mobs were generally immune/resistant to "Afraid" but not to "Avoid." (There is also a "Terrorized" used by powers like Terrify and Spectral Terror that produces the "fight or flight or stand there shaking" effect, which is obviously different than both.)
The "Avoid" in Freezing Rain is identical in duration and magnitude to Rain of Fire.
According to RedTomax the "Afraid" in Lightning Storm is attached to the Lightning rather than the cloud itself. I didn't realize Lightning Storm had an Afraid effect until recently because I've never noticed anything running from it, and this is probably why. By the time they stand up from the knockback the effect would nearly be worn off. -
I agree with a lot that you said. Powers are powerful only in the context of the challenges presented.
In the case of knockback specifically, knockback would be considerably more desireable if there were something to knock enemies into. In the past I'd suggested that if you blew an enemy into an obstacle, its suffers a stun that lasts as many base seconds as the distance it was prevented from traveling. The other suggestion was if you fall a long distance as the result of a knockback that you are considered to have engaged in an "uncontrolled fall" and take a percentage of your current HP in damage (so it would never kill you but wouldn't make a bad opening move, especially against enemies with high base HP.) A third thing that may be helpful would be for AVs to be changed from basically immune to knockback to vulnerable to 1 knockback every 30 seconds per-caster-per-power, so that if you have 4 powers that do knockback you can do it once per power, and have incentive to have more than just 1 power capable of doing it. These things would give knockback more purpose, IMO.
One other thing I've noted is that many of the more "unique" powers are less favorable because many of them them benefit less from set bonuses. From a set bonus perspective, powersets with more "mainstream" powers are able to slot more of the set because they need all of the "typical" ingredients. The Slow set, for example, assumes you need Recharge, Accuracy, Slow, Endurance Reduction, and Damage, but Snow Storm needs only two of these. -
I tried a test build of this combo with Ice/Kin/Cold and with a lot of false starts came up with a reasonable build based on some of what I described above. You'll note to do this I had to ignore some of my own suggestions. That's the hazard of listening to people on the boards, sometimes even yourself.
This build may give you some ideas. Note that global Accuracy in the build below is rather below par and could be made better by slotting some purples. That would also improve your recharge speed. I haven't inspected every power because I'm throwing this together quickly, but this does offer 45% slash/melee defense and +71.3% base Recharge. Damage isn't that great in a few powers (e.g. Chillblain was a sacrificial lamb) but with Kinetics specifically and Fulcrum Shift boosting you to the damage cap I think this is mostly doable.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.621
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
BR_v3 Revised: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Block of Ice -- BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(3), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(7), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(17), UbrkCons-Dam%(40)
Level 1: Transfusion -- Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(A), Nictus-Acc/Heal(3), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(11), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Nictus-%Dam(37)
Level 2: Chilblain -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(A), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(5), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(9), Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(15), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(37), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(39)
Level 4: Frostbite -- Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(A), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(5), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(17), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(29), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 6: Arctic Air -- CoPers-Conf%(A), Mlais-EndRdx/Conf(7), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(13), Mlais-Dam%(21), C'phny-Dam%(37), C'phny-EndRdx/Conf(42)
Level 8: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 10: Siphon Speed -- CtlSpd-Acc/Slow(A), CtlSpd-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(11), CtlSpd-Acc/EndRdx(15), CtlSpd-Rng/Slow(33)
Level 12: Ice Slick -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(48)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(19)
Level 20: Speed Boost -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(23)
Level 24: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(25), RctvArm-ResDam(25), RctvArm-EndRdx(46), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 26: Glacier -- UbrkCons-Hold(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(27), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(27), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(31), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(43)
Level 28: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(40)
Level 32: Jack Frost -- C'Arms-Acc/Rchg(A), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg(33), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), C'Arms-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Transference -- Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(36), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(36), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(36), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(40), Efficacy-EndMod(48)
Level 38: Fulcrum Shift -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), Acc-I(39)
Level 41: Ice Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(43), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 44: Frost Breath -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rng(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dam%(48)
Level 47: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 0: Ninja Run
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Set Bonus Totals:- 2.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 2.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 17.4% Defense(Smashing)
- 17.4% Defense(Lethal)
- 3% Defense(Fire)
- 3% Defense(Cold)
- 6.75% Defense(Energy)
- 6.75% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 14.9% Defense(Melee)
- 4.88% Defense(Ranged)
- 3% Defense(AoE)
- 4.5% Max End
- 71.3% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 2% Enhancement(RunSpeed)
- 6% Enhancement(Immobilize)
- 5% Enhancement(Heal)
- 33% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 2% Enhancement(FlySpeed)
- 2% Enhancement(JumpSpeed)
- 2% Enhancement(JumpHeight)
- 5% FlySpeed
- 114.5 HP (11.3%) HitPoints
- 5% JumpHeight
- 5% JumpSpeed
- MezResist(Immobilize) 7.7%
- 20% (0.33 End/sec) Recovery
- 40% (1.7 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 4.1% Resistance(Fire)
- 4.1% Resistance(Cold)
- 3.75% Resistance(Negative)
- 5% RunSpeed
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I think your power choices are mostly okay, but there are some improvements you can make on slotting. It looks like you're going for a lot of procs. In Arctic Air and Frostbite that's a great idea. However, you don't want to proc out powers that are on a long recharge (e.g. Frostbite) because they fire so rarely.
I would consider the following modifications:
- Pick a focus. I think a very reasonable one for Ice/Kin/Cold is shooting for 45% Slash/Lethal resist.
- If you're going to spend this kind of money, load up your defense powers with Luck of the Gambler +Recharges. Each one buys +7.5% Recharge. Two or three of these go a long way. Warning: they cost as much as a purple. But unlike purples you can buy them with merits earned from missions and Task Forces.
Specific power slotting comments:
- You probably want 3 slots in Hasten (all Recharge IOs) unless you increase your global Recharge significantly
- Arctic Air: You probably need more endurance discount. I know you have an endurance recoverry power but you still want to minimize AAs endurance suckage. Take a look at some Ice builds on the boards for some ideas.
- Transfusion: Perfect. Good job. [EDIT: Oops, forgot this requires a to hit roll. You will want something with accuracy in it.]
- Siphon Speed: Look to max out recharge so you can stack it on itself. You also want accuracy. I would take a look at some Fire/Kin builds for ideas here.
- Super Speed: If you must slot this, Blessing of the Zephyr is the way to go here. I usually slot it only with a -kb BotZ if I'm not building for ranged defense
- Jack Frost: Look at the slotting Fire/Kins use for their imps. The reason I say this is that I believe it's often built with the Call to Arms set mixed with some other things to net +recharge and +slash/lethal defense with just 4 slots, and the remaining 2 slots used for other things
- Glacier: Move the 5 Hold purples you have through the build to here. If you physically own 6 purples right now, do not slot the proc in Glacier. Put it as a 6th slot in Block of Ice.
- Transference: I like 6 slotted with Efficacy Adaptor, if you can afford the slots
- Hibernate: 2 recharge if you like. I do not personally slot either Health or Endurance here.
- Chillblain: Not sure it's worth taking. Right now you have this but not Ice Blast, which does far less damage. If you do get Ice Blast but still want Chillblain as an attack that's fine. The purple Hold proc probably needs to go into Frostbite if you decide to keep it.
- Frostbite is tricky. Unlike most other types of Controllers you probably want some immob duration here. The rest can be accuracy and procs, but if you have to burn slots somewhere this is the place to do it. You're mostly going to use it for the Containment anyway.
- Ice Storm: I'm torn. This will do 360 damage every 60 seconds but it takes 15 seconds to do it. Frost Breath will do 160 every 15 seconds or so and hits instantly, but it's a cone. See my note below about how you may want both powers and skip Ice Blast if you mostly team.
- Health: Less emphasis on actual healing in your IOing. Most Controllers use this as a spot for a Miracle +Recovery and/or a Numina recovery/regen proc.
A few other comments:
- I am not sure about the Fitness Pool. To get a fairly minor boost to resistance and defense you've missed out on your single target blast and Shiver. I would be tempted to replace Boxing/Tough/Weave with Combat Jumping/Shiver/Ice Blast. Combat Jumping provides some defense and allows you to slot a Luck of the Gambler, plus provides Immobilization protection that is handy for melee-ish characters. Shiver provides you with the ability to keep enemies debuffed even when you are forced out of melee range, as will happen with some encounters (e.g. Carnies, Malta) or when enemies are more than +2. Ice Blast is something I simply think you will want given how much damage you can crank out once boosted on Fulcrum Shift; alternatively, if you mostly team, you can skip Ice Blast for and take both Ice Storm and Frostbreath. -
For farming? Stone.
I would recommend searching the forums for a build. Fire/Kin/Stone a very popular combo and there are a few good builds you can find. I would look at one of these instead of trying to do it myself for the first try. It's not a particularly easy build to figure out on your own. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Jeuraud
My problem is that for some reason some of you believe you have the right to dictate to a group of players that have this power in their set that they must take this power.
Strategizing is not "dictating." I'm not trying to make this personal. But I categorically disagree that all methods of playing a power set are equally effective, which is essentially an absurdist notion. If this discussion was about Force Fields and we said it's in the interest of the team to keep Force Fields active it would not be "dictating" to say that to do otherwise is not a good strategy. It would also be roundly false to say that it comes down to a choice between putting up Force Fields or using controls. The same for Thermal, Sonic, and all the other sets.
As to the reason you've received so many replies about the nature of the power, its because you requested it:
Quote:Originally Posted by Jeuraud
So if SB is such a game altering buff that every Kin should have it and make sure that every team member is always buffed with it, then you should be able to lay out some numbers and show me what I'm missing.
We've shown you what you're missing, but rather than refute those numbers, you're changing the argument. I understand that you feel like you're being attacked, so that explans some of it. But I don't get why you requested the information if your "real" argument was that you don't like being told what to do. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Jeuraud
Spirits people, I'm not saying that Recharge Reduction or even SB are a bad things. I'm saying that Kins and especially Trollers with the kin secondary can give more to the group than just SB. And I'll be straight up and say that IMO during a team wipe SB is the least of their tools, because it has already failed most of the team.
The problem is no one is arguing that Speed Boost is a better option than controls. We are saying that not using Speed Boost--let alone coming to the boards to brag about not using it--is a mistake, because the power has huge benefits. And the main benefit is not, as some have claimed with staments like "I only use it on people who are struggling with endurance" or "everyone should already have their endurance under control at that level", the endurance reduction. Nor has anyone said you should use Speed Boost and nothing else; such an argument would be ridiculous because the whole point of Speed Boost is to enable other powers, including the controls you're fond of.
To be thoroughly blunt, I think Kinetics may be the only powerset in the game where people come to the boards eager to announce how poorly they play it. I don't mean that as harshly as it may sound, but I feel like if we could show that using the power would bring about world peace they'd say "but no one really needs world peace because the economy is good, and that's a fact" as if that argument had any logic to it. -
Given that you said you want to stick to concept, I would drop Psi for Primal. I think it fits the Mind/FF concept very well.
Primal will basically increase the duration of all controls by about 35%. With the long recharge on some of Mind's key powers this is very helpful. It will also allow you to outperform a FF Defender in terms of the shields you provide teammates if you cast them quickly. While it's active your big bubble is also more effective.
Another option if you ever decide to break character or someone else is reading this is to go with Cold or Stone so you can softcap melee/smashing defense. With some work you may be able to soft cap slash/lethal and ranged in one build. I've been able to do that with Ice/FF builds but not sure about Mind/FF, though due to your many single target blast powers it seems very doable. Of the two sets I'd prefer Ice for ranged AoE attacks over Earth, although Earth offers a modest heal and can cap your hit points.
And don't worry too much about other sets seeming more powerful. I've played both FF and Sonic to high levels and IMO Force Field is the better of the two. Sonic gets some debuffs but the shields are less than half as effective as Force Field and the endurance use is somewhat unreasonable for the benefit. Force Field is actually a very powerful set that IMO simply doesn't get the respect it deserves. The fact that you can use it as a basis for defense that can only be shut off by Sleep means that with skillful IOing you can build one of the most survivable Controllers (or Defenders) possible. -
Quote:Originally Posted by JeuraudThis is what they parse out to be.
from 240 to 131 = 55% reduction @ 84.8% invested
from 131 to 95 = 27% reduction @ 70% invested
from 95 to 79 = 17% reduction @ 50% invested
When I was using the quoted "real world" I meant real world. These numbers actually state that I was giving more to SB than it actually gets.
Are you assuming these people have Hasten? If so, the numbers should be better than this. Any time you Speed Boost someone with Hasten (or Accelerate Metabolism to a lesser extent) the base boost is actually better than +50% Recharge. That's because Speed Boost decreases the Recharge time of Hasten which itself decreases Recharge time further. The net effect is extremely noticeable. The reason people chase perma-Hasten is that once you hit it your overall Recharge time of all powers is a flat +70% base at all times rather than 70% some of the time and 0% the rest of the time. -
Even on my Mind/Cold Controller with +195% Recharge from bonuses and Hasten Speed Boost has a huge effect. The math is a little fuzzy but to estimate, Mass Confusion drops from 65 to 60 seconds, Heat Loss drops from 97.6 to 92 seconds, Total Domination drops from 62.5 to 60 seconds, and Benumb drops from 31.7 to 30 seconds (becomes perma). Now multiply that effect by 7 characters and consider that many of them are not built for Recharge in this way.
+50% Recharge is basically like getting 1 and 1/4th slots filled with a level 50 Recharge IO for free in every single power. The current market cost to achieve this via set bonuses hovers at around 500 million - 1 billion depending on the build. Multiply THAT by 7 characters and you'll see why people value Kins who work to keep the buff active. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Jeuraud
... a Controller could be SBing me all day long, but if they are not locking down the MOBs, then as far as I care they are not doing the job I expect from them, as a Controller. I could care less if my powers are recycling 25% faster and my endurance is recycling 50% faster, if I'm am being pounded into the ground by some MOB/MOBs that could and should be locked down, and aren't.
I don't think anyone is saying Controllers shouldn't use their lockdown powers. We're saying lockdown the enemies and keep the team reasonably buffed. Failing to do one or the other is just... well it's fail. :P -
Quote:Originally Posted by Sprite Fire
the kin troller (atleast how i play one) has much more useful things she can be doing to help the team then keeping pcs who neither need SB nor will use it constantly buffed.
stone tanker - needs SB
end hogs - need SB
everyone else hardly registers on my list.
Not attacking you, but I just want to say I am not a fan of this, err, "strategy." At least if you mean singling out certain ATs as the folks who only ever receive buffs. My apologies if that's not what you mean.
Twice today while teaming with my Fire/Kin I ended up on teams with other Kins (a Kin/Pistols Defender and a Plant/Kin Controller) who apparantly felt their modest damage contribution far outweighed the benefits of Speed Boosting anyone except the Stone Tank. I do not like to brag but in this situation IMO my performance ran circles around those Kins and frankly made them look a bit foolish. I was able to keep SB up on the group 95% of the time while fighting enemies that were +5 to me and +4 to the rest of the team. After an hour on each team during which neither I nor anyone other than the Stone Tank received a boost I eventually just stopped casting it on the other Kins. That's perhaps a bit passive aggressive but IMO warranted in a situation when a teammate decides he or she is faaar too important to be bothered passing out the second strongest +Recharge buff in the game.
In essence while I don't strive to keep SB up all the time it is a very high priority. This is no different than keeping bubbles on teammates. +50% Recharge on 7 people is far, far too powerful to pass up; basically it's something you would do if you severely overvalue your personal contributions and also undervalue that of your teammates. IMO any teaming Kin that is so busy or important that Speed Boost can't be slipped in is simply not living up to the role and begging to be embaressed when someone who can manage the full weight of the set shows up.
However, I agree anyone says "sb plz" when you've been reasonable with the buffs should die in a fire. 10% downtime shouldn't be too bad. When it's the entire mission that's a bit different.
[EDIT: It actually is somewhat different from keeping shields up in that I try to have 0% downtime with shields. 10% downtime is acceptable to me when I'm playing a Kin though I try to avoid letting the power drop because it can cause annoying changes in speed for team mates.]
[EDIT2: Slight edit to content to make it more clear this isn't directed specifically at the person I'm quoting.] -
Defender Fire Blast could be allowed to bypass positional tags on its T1 blast as a "freebie". It would be unique without directly increasing the total damage of the set. Unlike Blasters or Corruptors the Defender is losing a ton by not picking a blast set with high debuffs, so at least they could reliably hit enemies without Fire defense.
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Part of the origin of this I suspect is that many Fire/Kins don't really get the transition from farm to actual mission. On a farm, the Fire/Kin can indeed solo and kill stuff fast. This leads many of them to think that they are a great damage dealer. They aren't. Fulcrum Shift is just a crazy buff. So while the Fire/Kin can in fact solo well, in a team environment those buffs are much better served placed on characters with higher base damage, and providing those characters with +Recharge to alter their attack/mezz/buff/debuff chains.
A lot of times what I see is Fire/Kins getting on teams and then running off to go solo spawns or sticking with the team and trying to act like blasters (since Fire Cages does sooo much damage, especially when other Controllers there are already setting up Containment). It's not really practical. What a lot of them don't get is that if they want to operate most efficiently they should be buffing their teammates. The damage from Hot Feet is trash compared to what most Blasters, Scrappers, Brutes could bring, and when you factor in all of the extra buffs debuffs and mezzes you're missing out on by not buffing it's just kind of embaressing.
I understand why Kins don't like taking a backseat, but in a lot of cases it is the best strategy. Plus if you're good you should be able to buff and still use most of your powers. You just have to remember that on a team you are no longer the superstar.
Of course I realize the other thing about Speed Boost is how annoying it is to have to keep clicking. Earlier in some thread (this one?) I'd suggested that Speed Boost's duration stay the same but would refresh if a teammate is hit by Transfusion cast by the same person who originally put SB on them. Force Fields would refresh if the person stepped into your Dispersion Bubble and Thermal Shields would refresh if you hit them with Warmth or Cauterize. -
Mind Controllers are terrible AV soloists actually. Possibly one of the worst in the game. The Dom probably does have them beat there.
But the thing is you can't measure an AT by how well it solos, and especially can't measure it by how well it solos AVs. Mind Controller <> Mind Dom. Although if I knew nothing about the makeup of a team or the player and had to pick one or the other I'd pick the Controller every time because the control is good enough to get by on and the buff/debuff secondary is more helpful than the dom's damage in a lot of situations. -
Like others I'm concerned about the power creep this booster pack introduces. The power is nice enough, but this, Ninja Run, and the Magic Cards are a better fit to me as actual selectable powers than as boosters. The problem is not just the numbers but that this game has always done a good job of sticking to theme. Increasingly I feel like that part of the art direction is being lost. Because the packs are all "themed" when I see players using these powers it comes across rather jarringly as "that's a person that bought the booster pack because this power was useful" than "that's a really great costume." Since the origin of the booster packs was more about flare and costume than powerful abilities I think is unfortunate. I think that if we're going to continue to get powers from Booster Packs that aesthetically I'd rather have more "generic" looking abilities so we don't all end up playing mutant ninja magicians.
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The knockup/knockback prevention portion of all rooting powers is unresistable.
The power Telekinesis is not technically marked unresistable but in practice operates that way.
I believe some portions of Detention Field, Black Hole, Dimension Shift, and Sonic Cage are resistable and others not. Again none of these are marked, its just that the mechanics used to put the enemy in this state don't support the ability to resist them. (As infrequently as these powers are used its not likely anyone would notice.)
The damage in World of Confusion IS resistable. However I believe it is the only direct damage power that does not alert enemies.
While they're also not Unresistable, all powers in Mind Control and a few in Illusion Control lack positional tags. The effects are resisted as normal but are dodged differently (Ranged/Melee/AoE defense offers no benefits) which is why it feels like you are always getting slept by Rikti. Arctic Air in Ice Control, meanwhile, is also not Unresistable, but has a 30% undodgeable pure luck roll to determine whether you get confused. This (and the -recharge in that power) is probably why you don't see many enemies with Arctic Air.