-
Posts
3840 -
Joined
-
Quote:I don't find anything wrong with this "gameplay", that's pretty common with my group. That is as gross a generalization as someone kicking a support toon for not being a healer.
It's not a generalization at all. It's recount of an actual experience I had with a specific group of players, as I stated.
The 'generalization' was:
Quote:Originally Posted by Oedipus TexAnyway, I haven't had many problems with getting kicked from groups. -
Quote:So I should be like you and ignore all dev statements made regarding ED as a prelim move for the skills system which became the inventions system?
Nahh, I prefer not to live in ignorance.
Edit: And, no, I don't buy that the GDN wasn't also done as a step to prepare for IOs.
Are you saying that if IOs hadn't been planned, the pre ED/GDN days would have been an acceptable level of balance for the game? Because if not, whether or not IOs had been planned is irrelevant to whether a GDN/ED was necessary. -
I felt compelled to add one very nice thing about this change for me: taking Hurdle will no longer make me feel like I have to jump constantly to move at a reasonable pace.
-
Quote:Because the devs are so persistently timely in all of their game changes, right, Dysmal? 6 years to make fitness inherent and we still don't have offline SG invites to get our own characters into our own SGs...
If that was your best counter to my statement, you should probably give up now.
To be fair, I don't think GDN or ED was a a nerf related to IOs either. Both of those changes dealt with the extremely overpowered builds that were easily attainable with minimal investment. The extreme IO builds of today are not like that at all. In general they operate at max capacity only once they hit level 50 and massive time and influence have been poured into them.
In short, just because it is possible to attain extreme levels of power doesn't mean the average, or even more than a handful, of characters are operating at that level. Pre-GDN and ED that was not the case. I don't think that discounts your entire point about power creep, but I think we need to keep in perspective that we're talking about improvements to the top 10% of players. Everyone else will only be buffed to a level that I would call "comfortable" and end up with extra powers like Recall Friend or Bonfire.
The other thing is that a lot of people seem to be taking toggle powers in their newly opened slots. This assumes they will have the endurance to keep these abilities going. What makes that interesting is that the reason they don't have those powers right now is because chasing extra endurance was more important to them than getting those powers. Stamina does boost endurance (.77 end/sec at lvl 50 with 2 lvl 50 IOs and base 100 endurance), but if you then take 3 more toggles you almost cancel it out. The average cost of Leadership toggle is .39 end/sec, and the average Fighting armor is .33. Two Leadership toggles together, unehanced for endurance, nearly cancel the base effect of Stamina by themselves, leaving you relying purely on recovery procs.
So that's the whole thing about this particular issue. Any build that is possible with this change was possible before. The only thing is enhanced endurance recovery made running certain powers somewhat more feasible. On the other hand it's still not a free lunch, and anyone who loads themselves down with AoEs or unenhanced toggles will be right back where he or she was prior to the change. -
So there you are. Young and alive. Maybe a little hung over. No matter. Tonight is your night. You want to be where the PowerSets are. So soak up that ambience, cat. Take it there. You've paid your cover, tossed a few back, and that's when the night's getting loud, and you're on the scene again.
You show up late. It's fashionable. And the action is humming. All around you, you see...
MIND CONTROL was working the door. When PLANT CONTROL shows up, he examines his ID with unmistakeable bitterness, because he's sure he's too young to be doing what he's doing.
ROBOTS is hanging out by the side of the dance floor with her usual clique. They are all perfect and beautiful and make it clear from their body language they have no use for anyone else here. Reluctantly, you envy their lifestyle. But you also just kind of hope they all die.
TRICK ARROW came out tonight with one objective: find a rich control set husband to get her out of debt.
RADIATION EMISSION is hiding in the corner, wondering why she can't go out one single time without running into someone she used to date.
KINETICS and FIRE CONROL are from out of town. They heard this place was like the AWESOMEST bar EVER so had to check it out. To get directions they went to the bar's website and posted 37 requests for assistance. Not that it mattered, because they got lost anyway.
FORCE FIELD has finally worked up the courage to approach the girl he's been eyeing all night. He says a few words and she smiles brightly. But then he just stands there awkwardly for 3.5 minutes before speaking or moving again.
Frat brothers ICE and STONE ARMOR would be cute in a jockish way if they weren't wearing hideous oversized sunglasses, stonewashed jeans with gold thread in a clover pattern circling the butt, and neon-pink Aeropostale shirts with popped collars and a message that reads "$TANK."
Out of the corner of your eye you notice FIERY ARMOR ash his cigarette in SHIELD DEFENSE's cocktail. (The janitor, ENERGY ARMOR, notices too.)
ENERGY BLAST is swaggering around the bar with his shirt unbuttoned. "Yeah, baby, I got so much mitigation," he says. You're thinking, "For you, I don't even have the two seconds it would take to find out."
Power couple DARK MIASMA and FIRE BLAST have just had their first argument. "Ok look," Miasma says, "I'll just forget you said anything about Black Hole, and you forget I said anything about Blazing Bolt."
EMPATHY stormed out earlier in the night, when she realized PAIN DOM was wearing the same outfit. Later she'll ask MEDICINE to hang out, because what everyone needs when they're down is the company of a less attractive friend.
When ELECTRIC CONTROL walks into the club, there's an audible gasp. Someone didn't get the message that Drag Disco night moved to Wednesday.
GRAVITY CONTROL had way too much to drink tonight. After several failed attempts to impress anyone, he heads to the parking lot to sob uncontrollably and tell STORM SUMMONING that no one else understands him.
MENTAL MANIPULATION is drinking a PBR while plugged into an iPod and working on his blog via a PowerBook. Today's post: "World of Confusion." It reads in part, "So I found World of Confusion and it was like total hilario, like total irony you know. And like now I look over and see all these preppy APPs copying my gig, and I'm like WTF @ U?"
DUAL PISTOLS has spent most of the night in the bathroom admiring herself in the mirror. ENERGY MELEE is doing the same thing, except she doesn't like what she sees. By the time either joins the action, the night is pretty much over. -
Well... honestly the VEATS needed a nerf before this happened anyway.
But the issue you see again and again and again in builds is that you can double-dip by taking Defense based powers and slotting LoTG. It may finally be time to make that unique (as much as I'd cry about it). -
Quote:I see where our miscommunication is coming from.
The PvP example was just that, an example. I also showed where this change, using the exact same power changes as in my PvP example, also benefits me heavily in PvE.
As you state, the enemies in PvE are static. They can't gripe about the unfairness of the power creep that is occurring and has been occurring for quite some time in this game. This change is causing further PvE power creep.
From a purely PvE standpoint, the addition of assault to my current build, done so without any sacrifice to the build at all, will change my single target damage output on paper from 203 DPS to 210 DPS. I've already covered how the addition of elude will affect PvE.
This the power creep in the end game I speak of.
You know what else I'll be able to do in PvE alone should I wish it come I-19?
I'll be able to dump combat jumping and replace it with maneuvers, leave off super jump, replace it with physical perfection and now have an open pool to add hasten On Top Of the +recharge alpha slot which is going to punch me right into the range for the followup, slash, focus, repeat without pause attack chain.
My DPS will then go from the aforementioned 210 DPS up to 239 DPS while also leaving me softcapped to everything with even more regen and recovery than I had before.
Power creep. Huge, possibly ridiculous, power creep.
IMO this speaks to the overpowered-ness of a handful of IOs more than to whether the original formula for endurance usage and Stamina was reasonable. Castle did say during the BotZ nerf he had no plans to nerf Luck of the Gambler, but it's not implausible to me that he could change his mind. -
Quote:Tex, I guess the question to be answered is this:
Should this game get more simple than it already is?
Is that what it's going to take to get the subscription numbers up and keep them there? To make leveling ridiculously easy and then slap some grueling WoWish end game raids that are impossible with anything short of several teams worth of players?
Is that the direction this game is now headed? is this a good thing?
If we're still talking about PVP, then I confess I don't understand the question. I know this is a hot button topic for you, so I can hear your concern, but hear me out.
In PVP we are not fighting an unchanging opponent, we are fighting each other. Since all of us just got buffed, the challenge isn't any greater or lesser, it's just different. In a worst case scenario as you've described it, toons who are effective in PVE will also be effective in PVP. I don't see how that is an example of power creep or even how it is undesireable. It's true that the in-zone mobs will be easier to deal with and scoring a Shivan or something might be easier. But other players? They are just fighting under different circumstances. Some builds will rise and fall, but that will always be the case.
If tomorrow they decided to go a step further and eliminate the hated movement suppression mechanic and tweaked down heal decay, that too would would technically be a "buff," but would not be "power creep." It's just a change to the nature of the battle, because it affects you AND your opponents.
On the PVE side I do see some potential issues. But the problems I see with leaving Stamina the way it was are much more glaring. -
Quote:A lot of people run PvP builds without fitness, adding the powers for free will make a huge difference in staying power and fighting style/inspiration usage.
Those that currently use the fitness pool will be able to, as Bill said, pick up powers they otherwise had to sacrifice.
It will make a very big difference in a lot of cases.
I have no doubt that PVP will change, but again the thing with PVP is we are fighting each other.
It's also not clear to me that having PVP specs and PVE specs closer to each other is something to be avoided. -
Quote:Yes. Currently I lack the mobility many of the other PvPers have since I don't have SJ. As it stands now, I have no way to get back the defense I lose by entering a PvP zone due to PvP's diminishing returns. With the addition of single slotted Elude, during its uptime I'll be very close to softcapped again if not past it.
Better mobility + less incoming hits = greatly increased effectiveness. Not that I pvp all that often, but the point was to show that some of us will be getting a considerable buff from this change without any sacrifice to our builds at all.
My point is that most people you encounter just got 3 new slots too. So while you might be more powerful than you used to be, so is everyone else, and that includes people doing the same thing you are; i.e. making a PVP side-spec out of an otherwise PVE build. -
Quote:I'll get to sacrifice absolutely nothing and add assault to Bill's build. That's another 10.5% damage buff.
2 powers to go but now I'm out of pools again. I can take elude now which I can use in PvP. No extra slots needed. Might as well slap in SJ as well for PvP.
Again. No sacrifice at all and I've just drastically improved my PvP performance as well as my damage output.
I'm not familiar with PVP at all but since we all just got the same buff does that really mean your PVP performance is "drastically improved?" -
Quote:And even then, on being on some "Lets try and speed the ITF" teams I've been on, I've seen those OMG built for defense Tankers, either fall, or come close to it. The different is likely in their use of inspirations, and well...with the right inspirations, a lot of toons can get to the "O.O OMG I can't believe you jsut did that!" moments.
I was actually thinking about this earlier. While I understand why some think the changes to Fitness may make us overpowered, the elephant in the room is Inspirations. IMO they are way, WAY more influential than getting three additional power picks. The fact that we can gulp 5 or 6 at a time pretty much eliminates arguments about "challenge." In fact, I'd argue Inspirations are the reason so many people find this game easy, in particular the fact that they have no cooldown and when you solo, pour in faster than they expire.
While I'm not advocating a change to the system, if you want to make the game "more challenging" Inspirations are the place to start looking. -
Quote:You honestly don't see how this can be transformative and vastly increase the potential and power of even min maxed builds ? Really hard to believe.
Ok lets take your uber scrapper, with 5 lotg uniques, hasten already slotted in and no use for the stealth pool. They can now take the leadership pool, slot a perception unique, a +to hit unique, and have vengeance all for 0 cost to performance. Team wipes for that character have just become a thing of the past.
Surely a maxed out Scrapper already slotted the +ToHit unique somewhere. And I don't know why you'd take the Leadership pool and slot it that way either, because endurance is still a factor, as is the need to slot it to get actual benefits from the powers. Vengeance may be an exception to an extent, but blah 300 second recharge time and dead teammate. -
I don't know that this is going to make already powerful builds more overpowered so much as as it's going to make some of the less popular ones more viable. For example, on Controllers it evens the ground between Illusion/Radiation, Illusion/Cold and the other combos by making perma-army more attainable to less popular secondaries with fewer trade-offs.
-
Another vote for C# .NET. Not only is it free to get started (you can see the link provided by james_joyce below), if you're familiar with Windows applications at all the logic behind a lot it will be immediately familiar, at least in terms of creating basic application functions like button clicks and drop-down menus.
The reason I say C# and not Visual Basic is that C# bears a closer resemblance to C++, should you ever desire to start working with that. It's also my feeling that people who pick up C# tend to do better at switching to Visual Basic when the project requires it than vice versa, simply because Visual Basic is the easier to "read" language, IMO. Also, you may be thinking "I'll never be good enough to do C++" but with baby steps you might surprise yourself. Since C++ is the language most big budget games are written in it's a great language to know if you ever decide to do mod video games, for example, as you can do with stuff like Civilization IV (a game that actually ships with its source C++ code for you to toy with; IMO an ASTOUNDING resource for the aspiring game programmer).
Note that knowing C# or VB will also allow you to develop develop for Silverlight, Microsoft's Flash competitor (used on sites like Netflix to broadcast your movies). That is also free to get started with, but requires you to download Microsoft Visual Web Developer, a separate tool. Personally, I am a former Flash developer who now prefers to work almost exclusively in Silverlight due to cost savings.
(Note, however, that my clients sometimes want things developed in Flash anyway. That language is ActionScript 3, which I actually find to be "learner friendly." It is, IMO, much easier to learn the basic steps of writing a game in Flash/ActionScript than almost any other tool/language. However, I also find that as projects get more complex ActionScript can become frustrating, due to limitations that language has. In particular, ActionScript's insistence on making Arrays generic objects can lead to HUGE programming headaches that C# sails by; on the other hand, I have lost countless hours yelling at C# on my computer monitor because I can't figure out what load path it's using to grab external pictures/sounds/XML files etc.)
The deployment limitations of .NET can be frustrating, as james_joyce noted in his post.
I have no experience with Ruby on Rails but after reading Jame's praise for it may need to check it out. -
For teaming the main thing I slot prior to DOs is Endurance Reduction or Recharge, whichever makes more sense for the power. After DOs I start slotting semi-normally.
-
In general, the types of powers I think I'll be picking up are things like Grant Invisibility, Invisibility, Hover, Combat Jumping, etc. The central theme there is powers you can slot with Luck of the Gambler +Recharge and still have them operate fairly well. Three slots of that provide +22.5% Recharge, which is almost as good as some powers (but not cheap).
Recall Friend is also not a bad power to pick up.
A few of my characters may be able to pick up some flavor powers I originally skipped, e.g. Force Bubble, Telekinesis, Bonfire, Repel, Increase Density, Snow Storm, etc, since none of those really require much slotting to be helpful.
My few characters without Super Speed (all of whom have Hasten, which I never skip on Controllers) will be able to take that and use the single slot either for -kb or stealth. -
Did the person by any chance ask you to join his super group first? There is a known, small faction of super group elitists who invite people to team, try to impress them with their 'leet' skills, and ask you if you want to join. If you say no you get kicked, usually with a curt /tell (I got "Disappointing." /kick) I'm not allowed to post the name of the group here. The only thing worse than their manners is their gameplay. You'll know the group the instant you get on the team too, because the first thing you'll hear is:
HERDING TO HERE
HERDING TO HERE
HERDING TO HERE
Mixed with:
AM IN ~~10 SECONDS~~
GATHER FOR RA!!!!
GATHER FOR RA!!!
AM IN ~~5 SECONDS~~
Anyway, I haven't had many problems with getting kicked from groups. Mainly just that one semi-notorious band of complete losers, who might actually just be trolls pretending to suck as much as they do. -
What if in addition to their normal effects, Repulsion Field and/or PFF acted like the Swap Ammo toggles and changed the behavior of Force or Dispersion Bubble? The powers are somewhat mutually exclusive anyway, so this would give us reasons to run them together.
I don't know if someone else has ideas about what the combo could achieve, but one suggestion is to have Repulsion + Force Bubble eliminate the Repel aspect of Force Bubble and change it to a debuff (-Range? -Damage? -Speed? -2000% Knockback Resistance, so if they get hit with knockback they go flying further? Periodic chance for Knock Up? AoE -Regen? -Intangible, so phased enemies come back as valid targets?). -
Quote:Well, I am pretty sure my Fire/Rad/Earth controller has been and will continue to be nicely more effective solo than my Fire/Earth dominator is. Not to say my dom is bad, it is great fun and wonderfully effective, but the controller was and is just stunningly good.
Hence the 1/10.
Other than the shape of the icon there's not a lot of reason to segregate the two ATs anymore. Surely you can identify "some Controllers" that out solo Dominators but except for a few outliers it's rare. Fire/Rad, Illusion in general, Fire/Kin, possibly some others. Generally speaking it's the cookie cutter builds too. I don't think there's much controversy in saying that Dominators, as a whole, outsolo the majority of Controller powerset combos.
(I also wonder what APP your Dominator has, because Fire/Earth/Fire is ridiculous at the moment.) -
Well I think if we're going to break it down far enough, the argument ultimately becomes "why solo a Controller at all when you could just go Dominator and 9 times out of 10 have an easier time?" I think we're talking less about what is best than what is functional.
-
In my experience Mind Control on a Controller has 2 major downsides.
The first is AoE Containment. It shares this problem with Illusion, but Illusion literally has an army to make up the damage difference.
The second is fighting elite bosses and AVs. I found it very, very frustrating, because establishing Containment is so difficult. However, now that we can go Villain, I believe there is at least a temporary job power that can help alleviate this.
The lack of a pet never bothered me one way or another. I can't really say Plant or Ice's pets are that great (although if we call Carrion Creepers a "pet" perhaps so). I always valued the Earth pet for its survivability more than its damage. Fire and Electric get pretty significant damage from the pets. Illusion is basically a Mastermind with a couple of control powers. Gravity's pet is good but the set is not comparable to Mind in a million years.
Now the thing about Mind Control is I've found it a bit of a roller coaster in terms of performance. It starts out way ahead of the other sets in performance. Then at around level 15 its slightly behind (climbing the lift hill?), and holds that position for a long time while you make your way to level 26 for Terrify. Even then, I find it still requires you to get all the way to level 33, with Mass Confusion slotted, for it to really take off... then at 41-47 other Controllers start getting Contained AoEs, and may surpass you in damage.
However, if you keep going to 50, and start building for massive recharge, you edge more and more on other sets, who aren't really benefitting as much from dropping recharge on things that recharge semi-quickly anyway. If you take the Primal APP (IMO the best for most Mind Controllers) eventually you can use Power Boost to obtain ~50 seconds of Containment from Total Domination every 60 seconds or so. At that point, you are not only ridiculously survivable, but doing damage at least on par to average sets. To wit, my Mind/Cold Controller was doing Carnie radio missions on +0x8. I did die from time to time, but the fact that he could do it at all, combined with his excellent ability to provide mitigation on teams, impressed me.
In terms of teaming, I have lvl 50 Earth/Storm, Ice/Therm, Ice/Rad, a FF/Ice Defender, but the Mind/Cold is who I'd reach for everytime a team seemed hopeless and someone needed to go get their "best toon," because he could almost always carry the group past impossible odds with a combo of stealth, Power Boost, and sneaky sleeps and confuses.
We should add that this game is changing over time. With the introduction of "tip" missions, which tend to reward you for actually completing the objective each day instead of farming the mission for XP, Mind Control is a shoo-in set because it's amazing at being able to stealth objectives. At various times I have even walked kidnap victims to exits with a bare minimum of fighting by just sleeping or confusing each enemy group as I stroll passed.
All of this said, I did recently try rerolling my Mind/Cold troller as a Mind/Ice Dominator. The change resulted in him gaining even better lockdown, earlier access to power boost, but has made him contribute less to AV and monster fights where I am on a team. He is currently level 34, but showing lots of promise. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex- One of only 3 sets in the game that can mezz enemies prior to starting a fight
Any control set can do this.
Let me clarify.
By "starting the fight" I mean that enemies become aware of you and begin to fight you. Only 3 sets Control sets can mezz an enemy without starting a fight: Illusion (Decieve), Mind (Confusion, Mass Confusion, Mass Hypnosis), and Electric (Synaptic Overload). Mass Hypnosis is also available to Defenders and Corruptors as part of their APPs.
Other sets can indeed mezz enemies as an "opener" but doing so immediately alerts the group to your presence and that point you either have to kill them or run. The entire group becomes aggroed on you, and anything that was either missed or has sufficient mezz protection will immediately attack. The enemy also becomes "locked" on you, and will continue to chase you for long distances if you do try to escape, unless someone else pulls the aggro off you.
Now, with the 3 previously mentioned sets, the "opener" is often not the first mezz you cast, but the second. In other words, Electric isn't opening with Static Field, it's opening discretely with Synaptic Overload, and only making enemies aware once it casts Static Field. If it tries to cast Synaptic Overload and the power fails or it hits fewer targets than anticipated, the enemy does nothing. The power will also not attract the attention of enemies if it is cast "too early" during a bull rush.
Enemies hit with the aforementioned powers are also less relentless. If you take off running after casting any of those powers, the enemy is less persistent about chasing you. They basically react the way enemies on the overworld street do, taking pot shots from a standing position and only chasing you a short distance before returning to their posts. Mass Hypnosis is actually probably the king of the "secret mezz and run for it" club (I use it when I round a corner and unexpectedly encounter a huge angry group) but the utility is still there for Electric.
In short, having a non-aggro mezz is game changing. It still doesn't make Electric amazingly overpowered or anything, but it is a significant advantage most sets don't have. Only Mind Control gets a secretive AoE Confuse, and it recharges 4 times slower than Electric's. That's significant, if you can find a way to leverage it. -
Oh yeah that. Well kind of. Illusion is such a strange offshoot that it's hard to quantify it against other sets. It gets one "standard" pet, and that's more what I mean. The standard, buffable, with-you-till-it-runs-out-of-HP kind as opposed to the invulnerable, unbuffable Illusion-only type.
-
It depends on what you're looking to do.
Electric is probably not the best at "control." However, neither is Illusion, and that set is still great.
Electric does do some things well:
- Only set in the game with a toggle power with negative endurance cost (i.e. it feeds endurance to you instead of the reverse)
- Provides powers that, because of their "chain" aspect, allow you to get around high defenses (an aspect many of the conversations about chains keep missing)
- Provides of a method of getting around status protection
- Only endurance drain set that allows you to mezz enemies first, and then drain them (other sets require you to endure the onslaught of damage if you don't instantly floor enemy's endurance)
- One of only 3 sets in the game that can mezz enemies prior to starting a fight
- One of only 2 Control sets that can slot Chance for Knockdown in the AoE cages
- Only set in the game to my knowledge that can slot single damage procs into an AoE (Jolting Chain)
- One of only 2 Control sets that gets two pets instead of 1 (or none)
None of this is to say the set is amazing, but IMO there's more to the story than just how much lockdown you can get.