Oedipus_Tex
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Trial and error is a natural element of any game. You're making the assumption that players are wholly ignorant and incapable of learning from their mistakes to attempt to make mezzes seem far more dangerous than they actually are. First time I ever encounter a sapper, I died, but I've never died to one ever again as long as I have an ST mez hit them with.
You know Turbo, it might strike you one day that you are not the only person who has experience playing City of Heroes. It might also strike you that the icon displaying in my avatar is the Controller archetype crest, and it's there because of how much I enjoy playing Controllers. You might also venture to the Controller section of the message boards one day and see that I'm a regular contributor. You may also discover my advice on slotting to maximize the Controller's ability to use holds, stuns, knockbacks, and other abilities. In addition it might occur to you that the reason I rolled, and posted a build of, an Electric/Force Field Controller was precisely because of experience I have had with Controllers and getting mezzed. On further reflection it might dawn on you that I have two Ice Control characters, one Electric, and two Fires, and have at least some authority to report what my play experiences have been with those sets. It might occur to you that several of those builds have Indomitable Will from the Mind pool. Finally it might become apparent that when you have to argue with 15 or so people for four days to prove your point, the universal truth of your message is possibly disputable.
Actually, never mind. None of that is going to occur to you. The rest of us are simply too "ignorant and incapable" to comment on any aspect of the game with which you disagree. -
I'll just name something off the wall since other people already had good suggestions.
A pair of /Psi Dominators. Good AoE, ridiculous survivability. Primary doesn't matter though Ice or Gravity wouldn't be my first pick. One Fire/Psi and one Earth/ or Mind/Psi would be pretty terrifying. As would many other combos. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Biospark
I submit to you Turbo that this appears to be a more manageable situation because of your veteran playing experience. When you approach a spawn, there is no mystery which villains you need to address first and which second. A newer player does not have this benefit and such will view mezzers as OMG! I need to defeat that #$%% right now. By then it may be too late to recover. This does not lower the threat value that mezzing mobs pose to typical "Squishie" characters, just illustrates that you have learned the tactics to quickly address them and use break-frees as a "fall-back" measure.
To be honest I don't think even Turbo really believes her statements about mezzes. I'm pretty sure she just feels cornered and is blindly defending herself at this point. I know I've felt that way on the boards before when I've been on the defensive. I'd like to give her an out, but she's making that really difficult. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
You're disregarding the use of Char, Flashfire, Cinders, Block of Ice, Glacier, Ice Slick, Tesla Cage, Jointing chain, Syn Overload, and Paralyzing Blast in that scenario. All powers I would consider firing at least one of prior to any other action. Static Field and Flash Freeze are also relevant if we're talking solo or small team, also bonfire in some extreme situations though I wouldn't recommend it most of the time. Also you seem to disregard that Arctic Air is an AoE confuse. I mean you assume the player is standing around waiting to get mezzed to support your argument at this point instead of actively preventing it.
Videos or it doesn't go down like this. Specifically, I want to see you do this to a pack of 16 Carnies containing a minimum of 2 Boss level Master Illusionists. Please use an Ice Controller with no I0s in your demonstration. Minimum level is +3.
P.S. The statement about me "assuming the player is standing around waiting to get mezzed" is probably the most ridiculous claim yet made in this thread, and that's a real achievement.
P.P.S. And yes, you're required to make it through the fight without having Arctic Air detoggled. (If this were a fair challenge at all, you'd be required to do it for the whole mission.) -
Quote:Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
True enough but it's not like we've got a race on our hands. Out philosophy its more geared towards survivabilty than munching through mobs. If they are locked down there's not much they can do and we can take our time
Bring lots of temporary powers. I'm actually a bit worried about Ice Control being in that mix. Fire needs Containment and that neuters one of Ice's biggest contributions. If you still have time to switch it out, I think you'll have way fewer problems with any other set. If not, it's still possible, but it will probably be somewhat frustrating to the Ice player. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Candlestick
Uh....Just like to say, Sleet is still stupidly powerful for Doms. 60s Recharge was outright OP, and 90s is still "moderately OP".
This.
Recharge should have been 120 seconds. And I took the power.
Is Rain of Fire still 60 seconds? If so shouldn't it be 120 too? -
Quote:Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
What about Mace Beam Volley? Mace Mastery is currently the only Controller APP that does not include an AOE attack, and it would almost certainly make more sense than an accuracy boost to an AT that has little need of it.
Actually Disruptor Blast is an AoE blast.
I wish this had been Power Boost. -
By the way, the correct answer to the question about Fire, Ice, and Electric Control is player-based area of effect (PBAoE) toggle powers that place those Control sets frequently in melee range. If you are running one of these powers and an enemy mezzes you, it shuts the power off, leaving you standing in melee range with an angry mob, and the power does not recharge for 15 seconds. It does not help to eat an inspiration; if the mezz hits you even for a fraction of a second, you are detoggled. If you did happen to be soft capped because of personal armor powers, that shuts off as well for the duration of the mezz. In a best case scenario this is highly annoying, in a worst case it is deadly because the enemy is able to continually lock you out of regaining your AoE. Force Field allows these three Control sets to play fast and loose, jumping into melee range with little danger of being hit with attacks, in addition to providing mezz protection to keep the AoE up. This has implications for the rest of the team, because those Control powers can be the barrier between an easy fight and a deadly exchange.
If you happen to be playing Empathy (or Thermal or Pain) one thing you can do to help out your team is keep any Fire, Ice, or Electric Controller perma-Clear Mind'ed. Several other sets (Defender, Controller, Corruptor's Radiation Emission & Dark Miasma, Blaster's Fire Manipulation) also have important toggle powers that can be switched off this way, although that's usually less deadly (hopefully). -
Quote:Originally Posted by Splat-Fu
Don't argue with an idiot. He'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.
I'm going to live by this while on the teams making "end game" comments on FF and empathy (amongst other confrontations).
That said I must again say that I'm floored by the action my one question has caused.
I was away awhile and had to catch up (from page two methinks) on the conversation(s). I now see double, my nose is bleeding, and I'm not sure what this substance coming from my ears is... there is a TON of great information here if you're good at filter-fu! While hard to absorb... It's almost a "guide" of sorts now? *meh*
This thread has caused me to love the player base of this game. The recent posts have made me resurrect my little bubbler.
I thank you. All of you. Punch and pie for everybody!
I'm glad you got something out of it. If you care to let us know what you're secondary powerset is, I'm sure several of us would be happy to help you with build suggestions for leveling up, and for maximizing yourself in the fabled "end game."
P.S. Despite my disgreements with Turbo Ski about Force Field, if you ever play Cold Domination, I do want to give her props and say her guide is actually quite useful. Also keep in mind that although we players clash pretty publicly on the boards, by next week all of us will change alliances and be shouting at each other about a different topic.
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Quote:And death trumps controls. I guess that means controls are useless. After all, the death of enemies on all teams approaches 100%.Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Controls do trump all mitigation though when they are in effect.
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Quote:You're waffling. If the scenario that makes Force Field "easily the worst buff set" is the situation where mitigation approaches 100% as you've stated, then it stands to reason that in your view situations where 100% mitigation is reached are common. If it is NOT common for that to be true, then it's logically impossible to reach the necessary conclusion, as you have presented it.
I've not once said that 100% mitigation scenario was common, only that mitigation in general was common.
What does what is considered when balancing a set have to do with it? I think most people commenting on the boards want to know about actual performance, not whatever theoretical model was used to invent the set. It is also not at all true that all sets benefit equally from IOs. Heck, one of the main activities archetype forums are used for is finding IO builds for characters. To claim a significant portion of the game has no bearing on the value of a set isn't just illogical, it's outright dishonest. IOs do not exist in a make believe world. If I don't get to say "In my version of the game, everyone plays a Blaster!" you don't get to write off an entire segment of the game (and what I think virtually everyone here except you would have interpretted as "end game") because it is inconvenient to your spreadsheet.Quote:IOs aren't considered when balancing sets because of the money/time sink cost and them being a constant across all sets.
If this were actually true why would any Controller take Indomitible Will as a power? Be careful how you answer this. I'll give you a hint too so you don't step right into the trap. What do Ice, Fire and Electric Control all have in common that flies in the face of your statements about mezzes and inspirations? This should be a very easy question if you have as much familiarity as you claim to.Quote:Mez Protection is equivalent in value to an ST hold, since they both are quite reliable at preventing mez.
A better answer would have been "Yes that's an advantage Force Field has in those situations." Instead, as predicted, you appeal to the hypothetical team with "end discount powers flying about." Yes, yes, I love those teams. A lot of time, they have a Force Fielder, which prevents me from losing all my endurance.Quote:End resist has little weight by 50 since there are a ton of +end/+rec and end discount powers flying about and it's a common for players to already have their end managed via slotting and/or previously mentioned powers. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
Except they aren't. Since you're so hung up on empathy, we'll use it in this comparison model.
Support power decay model
I can add more supports sets if you're not convinced.
So this whole time you've been telling us controls > force field, and yet the first thing it says on your spreadsheet is "Controls and heals are unquantifiable and can't be properly modeled?" Well at least it explains your claim that controls are infinitely powerful and able to defeat any argument about adding protection. -
Took me a while to respond to an older post.
Quote:Maybe I read too much into what you've said. I kind of felt like a statement like "Force Field is easily the worst support set" was pretty extreme. Debating 6 people for three days in order to "prove" that point seems pretty extreme to me as well, but who am I to say, since I keep responding?Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
please go find a post anywhere in which I said "Force Field is always worse than Cold". You won't find it because I never said anything remotely to that extreme. You sound way too emotionally invested here and I don't think you're quite thinking clearly at this point as you're reading things that aren't there.
There is a logic of kinds to your arguments. The problem is it's flawed logic that's based on your subjective opinion about the frequency of a particular event (teams already being 100% survivable). Rather than acknowledge the conditional nature of your assertions, you simply repeat the assertions. When questioned about other benefits of Force Fields (mezz protections, ability to IO, endurance reduction) you immediately declare that argument "irrelevant" and repeat your assertions yet again.Quote:I find it funny that you guys think I'm bashing FF. Bashing would be saying negative things about it without supporting evidence or logic. I've been stating my logic pretty clearly why I think FF underperforms comparatively with the rest of the support sets, it's just that some of choose to take that a personal attack and respond by taking words out of context or manipulating what I said to be radically different. The posts in the thread remain unchanged and truly speak for themselves in that regard.
In the end, if you stuck to saying "I don't like Force Fields for these reasons" I think you'd receive a better reception. -
Based on your stated criteria, Traps/Sonic is my recommendation. You will have basically everything you need by level 20-ish, with a few extra powers showing up later on. Everyone skips Time Bomb and the Sonic Nuke is totally up to you. Lots of good control. Ability to sleep enemies and set up traps under them too.
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What is the "end game"? The ITF? The Stateman and Lord Recluse Task Forces? Reason I ask is I've probably spent less than 5-10% of my time at high levels in those kinds of activities. I always considered exemping back to level 20, 30, 40, whatever to do Task Forces a huge part of this game's "end game" because you get to keep your hard-earned purple bonuses and extra large inspiration tray.
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The reason I said to consider x2 Colds is because of it's performance against AVs relative to Radiation:
- -50% damage vs -20% damage
- +14.5% defense vs -3.75 toHit (because of AV resists, numbers shown are bases before IOs)
- -64.5 recharge during Heat Loss up time vs -11.25 (because of AV resists) -- you want two Colds here to floor the numbers permanently and slow AV attack speed to 1/4th normal value
- 30% resistance (-60% during Heat Loss cycles) vs -22.5%
- +1.04 end/sec (minimum, can be much higher) vs .5 end/sec
- 93% healing vs -0% (not sure if this is resisted by AVs)
Radiation does provide a very useful +30% Recharge, an AoE hold, and heals. It is a truly great set although IMO it excels more at dealing with crowds than with AVs specifically (at least relative to Cold Dom), and my opinion is that is where your trio is most likely to run into problems. I also have selfish motives though, in that I'm kind of bored with Fire/Rads and would like some other type of Controller to play flavor of the month once in a while.
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Are you willing to consider replacing one troller with a Dominator? If so, I'd consider:
1) Controller: Illusion/Cold
2) Controller: Fire/Radiation
3) Dominator: Mind/Fire
If replacing one person with a Dominator isn't an option, I would try for something like Plant/Cold. I prefer Cold shields to Radiation debuffs for these types of tasks because they don't lose value against AVs. 2 Colds and 1 Rad is a perfect blend, IMO.
If you do take the Dominator, you can use him or her for fantastic damage and the ability to hold elite bosses and even possibly AVs. I selected /Fire as the secondary but you could do anything. I picked Mind because so many of its power benefit from Domination mode. -
I'm ok with weird animations. I see them more as suggestions of what might have happened (You used your strength to hurl "something" at the enemy) rather than what literally ocurred.
Some of the descriptions are funny to me though. Seeds of Confusion is explained as: "You hurl seeds from the rare Baffle plant at your foes." The plant is apparantly so uncommon that you're able to throw a handful of the stuff every 45 seconds.
Comic books are a weird place, so I can accept some of the stuff that goes on. Radiation and Thermal heals are a stretch (though I too tend to see Thermal as more of a mental or spiritual "Phoenix" kind of fire than literal flames.) Controller pets strike me as ridiculous, and I hope if we get a City of Heroes 2 they're removed. Willpower as a Tanker or Brute powerset is really silly if played as if it is actually Willpower. -
Quote:Convenient. Basically, what you're saying is "I see a situation where Cold can't match Force Field. However, rather than grant that advantage, I'm going to declare it irrelevant because it doesn't support my belief that Force Field is always worse than Cold." I don't know about other people, but this is part of what frustrates me so much about your arguments. Rather than just say "Yes, if you want defense and mezz protection Force Field is a valid choice" you have to find some way for Cold to STILL be the winner, in this case by saying IOs are irrelevant. That's just beyond ridiculous and makes it harder and harder to take your opinion seriously with each new post.
I didn't make a comparison between builds. I just said it was irrelevant both Elec/FF and Elec/Cold are already powerful mitigation combos to start with and shoving IO bonuses into each will have the same effect and still be totally irrelevant in the balance design of the sets because of the money and time sink required.
You can't be serious. Lost bosses? Longbow? Malta Gunslingers? Carnie Illusionists? Seers? Rikti mind-whatevers? What technique have you developed where you are able to hold them in one shot, and that is sufficient to support 7 teammates to the point that everyone could turn off their anti-mezz toggles and not notice a change in performance?Quote:Clearly you must be since ST hold/stuns have protected many of my blasters/controlers/dominators/defenders/corruptors from status ailments since day one. Rularru and Boss/Lt widow/fortunatas are the only mobs I've encounter where this isn't reliable against.
This may be a case where what you wrote, and what you mean, are two different things.Quote:I don't recall saying Elec/Cold was better than Elec/FF or vice versa. I think you've perceived something that wasn't there in the first place.
A thread where someone was talking about frustations while soloing. And one of the replies is "Play a Force Field/Sonic Defender, take Acrobatics, or team with a FF/Sonic Defender." Probably not the thread I'd have selected to bolster my point.Quote:there is a thread on the front page of this forum that proves I'm not the only one that thinks ST holds/stuns are reliable forms of status protection.
I mentioned it because if a such a conflict existed in Force Field, you'd lament that it once again demonstrates a failure for that set. Your position is actually a rather easy one to maintain. Any positive for Force Field is "irrelevant" or "marginalized." Any negative for Cold is equally "irrelevant" or "has nothing to do with the topic at hand."Quote:No one but you implied they [Static Field and Sleet] would be used together. AoE sleeps mainly there for surgical work solo or mitigating ambush or double pulls on teams.
Again you seem like a decent person, and reasonably experienced with Cold Domination. Your insistence on knocking Force Field, however, and telling people they're imagining the effects they experience by adding one to the team, is baffling. I totally understand not liking a particular set, but I feel you have carried it further into an intractable position where your spreadsheets overrule practical experience and actual game play. I'm fully aware I will never change your opinion because it is based on a belief about a game I'm unfamiliar with, because I've never played it. This has all been very entertaining. Hopefully the original poster at least got some kind of answers out of it. While also discovering us players are a pack of wild animals. -
The point of throwing Mass Hypnosis around on a team is less about keeping whole groups slept than it is about catching the few of them that end up out of the fight for a little while.
For example if you get tired of waiting for the tank, you can cast Mass Hyp + Total Domination. Anything Total Dom misses has a good chance of being slept. Because Mass Hyp doesn't cause aggro you can even cast it, look at the spawn to see if following on is a good idea, and stop yourself if it isn't.
My heavily IOed Mind/Cold Controller had Mass Hypnosis down to 13 second recharge or so. At that point it became practical to simply cast Mass Hyp every time it was up. I tended to aim it slightly outside the main group of enemies and catch a few guys at the sides. Unlike other powers you can be completely reckless about this because it won't aggro new groups and anyone who might have complained about you locking stuff down in a bad location can just wake the enemies up and do whatever.
Mass Hypnosis also seems to activate its mezz very early in the animation, at least compared to powers like Flashfire. I have always found it a great button to hit when damage shows up from a mysterious source I've yet to identify. I also use it on teams when an ambush is running by. And also when there is a crowd of enemies, one of them has a big bubble power, and I'm not sure which one it is. If Mass Confusion is down and I'm left with Total Domination and am desperate, I'll throw Total Dom first, then Mass Hypnosis in the hope it temporarily detoggles the bubble, which then causes the bubble to flash off, which then allows the AoE hold to apply. Funny stuff when it works. -
Next build. I could go even more extreme with the defense if I worked harder but I'm pretty happy with where it's sitting. I also could have gone with Traps, but then I wouldn't be running around with an army of tanks as armored as I am. Note that endurance recovery looks lower than it really is because Stamina will become an inherent. I also mainly have Repulsion Field due to the character's name ("Pinball Blizzard.")
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Pinball Blizzard Extreme: Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Force Field
Secondary Power Set: Ice Blast
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Ice Bolt -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(40), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 2: Ice Blast -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(27), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Dev'n-Hold%(34)
Level 4: Frost Breath -- Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rng(5), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg(9), Det'tn-Dmg/Rng(25), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25)
Level 6: Insulation Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(7), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(7), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 8: Personal Force Field -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A)
Level 10: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 12: Dispersion Bubble -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(13), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(13), RedFtn-Def(15), RedFtn-EndRdx(15), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 14: Aim -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(36), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(43), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(48), GSFC-Build%(48)
Level 16: Freeze Ray -- UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(A), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(34), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(37), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(37), UbrkCons-Dam%(37)
Level 18: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 20: Ice Storm -- Ragnrk-Knock%(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(21), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(23), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Repulsion Field -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Super Speed -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 26: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 28: Bitter Ice Blast -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Apoc-Dmg(29), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(31), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Apoc-Dam%(33)
Level 30: Tough -- HO:Ribo(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(31), GA-3defTpProc(34)
Level 32: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 35: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36)
Level 38: Blizzard -- Det'tn-Acc/Dmg(A), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(39), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rng(39), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 41: Web Envelope -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(42), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(43), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(43)
Level 44: Repulsion Bomb -- HO:Nucle(A), Dmg-I(50)
Level 47: Detention Field -- HO:Endo(A)
Level 49: Force Bubble -- EndRdx-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 4: Ninja Run
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Set Bonus Totals:- 11.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 11.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 11.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 11.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 11.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 11.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 11.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 11.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 11.3% Defense(Smashing)
- 11.3% Defense(Lethal)
- 9.13% Defense(Fire)
- 9.13% Defense(Cold)
- 12.3% Defense(Energy)
- 12.3% Defense(Negative)
- 14.8% Defense(Psionic)
- 12.9% Defense(Melee)
- 14.8% Defense(Ranged)
- 12.3% Defense(AoE)
- 3% Enhancement(Immobilize)
- 73% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 76.3% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 9% FlySpeed
- 129.7 HP (12.8%) HitPoints
- 9% JumpHeight
- 9% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -4)
- Knockup (Mag -4)
- MezResist(Held) 3.3%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
- MezResist(Sleep) 3.3%
- 12.5% (0.21 End/sec) Recovery
- 78% (3.31 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 6.3% Resistance(Fire)
- 6.3% Resistance(Cold)
- 3.75% Resistance(Energy)
- 1.88% Resistance(Negative)
- 9% RunSpeed
- 2% XPDebtProtection
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Quote:Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
My argument is that FF is the only support set that deteriorates to zero value as the amount of damage mitigation increases in the team. You were responding to my post where I was pointing out the how extremely unlikely to find a team composition with very little damage mitigation. Blaster APP/PPP shields are a form of damage mitigation in addition to a blaster's higher base damage to end the fight faster.
So no one should ever play a Tanker. Because the damage mitigation on any team is already 100% and therefor it makes no sense to trade offense for defense. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
for a elec/cold troller build? I would take the Seer instead as a pet since it comes with innate status protection and Dark embrace for more rounded self resists (fire/nrg/cold/s/l/neg/toxic) which would stack nicely with the regen aura and controls for mitigation. Wouldn't really have to worry about mez on me because of Static Field can be thrown out of line of sight followed up by laying on a chain confuse or simply tesla caging the annoyances. Why bother even factoring in IOs since that's a powerful combo with just SOs from the get go.
Which brings me back to how diverse the game has gotten in power choices that even without IOs you can make a beastly build can barely be killed at the endgame. Overspecializing a support into only defensive abilities makes no sense when every other set has at least some form of offensive and some form of defensive abilities mixed in. Trick Arrow is easily the most offensive support build but still offers some mitigation debuffs, FF should be the polar opposite of that in design and not completely be without offense.
If I'm understanding what you've said here, we've now graduated to pure science fiction.
You just compared a multi-billion influence Force Field build that has +80% Recharge and is soft capped to 5 positions with no tradeoffs in control (actually, one small one: the single target mezz is slotted for damage rather than hold) to an Electric/Cold build running on SOs. That is.. well it is going to take me a minute to catch my breath before I continue.
[short break]
Ok. Let's begin with your statement about Static Field. It is simply bizarre. Being able to cast around corners means the same thing as mezz protection? Well that is certainly a... unique perspective. Someone ought to let the Tankers and Scrappers know they can respec out of their mezz protection toggles. It's just wasted endurance now that we have Electric Controllers.
Then you make the same claim about single target holds. "Just being able to Tesla Cage the annoyances." To think, all these years playing Controllers, and it never occurred to me I can prevent mezzes by using my level 1 power on them. Obviously I'm approaching the game incorrectly.
Or, more likely, you are simply selecting random aspects of a power set and using that to claim it's basically like mezz protection, even when that claim makes no sense whatsoever.
You should also probably be told that the pet you mentioned has mezz resistance, not protection, and that Electric/Cold suffers because two of its best powers (Sleet + Static Field) cancel each other. If a conflict like that existed in Force Field you would be all over it. Elec/Cold is a decent build but I could write a volume why Illusion/Cold walks all over it. I won't do that because I'm not convinced, like you are, that power sets can be reduced to slag just because another set sometimes does better in hypothetical situations I can make up for the convenience of making myself seem correct.
Which brings me to something else. You keep blasting Force Field for mainly bringing protection, while ignoring the fact that the main thing Cold Defenders gain above Cold Corruptors is... protection. Sleet and Heat Loss work exactly the same for Defenders and Corruptors (and Controllers). The only powers that vary are the shields, Snow Storm (easy to work around due to cap of -75% on -Recharge), Benumb, and Infrigidate. Oh, and Frostwork, which you've said you don't like. By your logic, we should bypass Cold Defenders in favor of Corruptors, because they don't become redundant. But what, they have a secondary too? It's sure too bad Force Field doesn't get a secondary power set, then it might be able to compete. -
Quote:Because the situation I was in was actually real, where the situation you are imagining me in is conjectual and created with the intent of being able to say you are correct. The fact is getting mezzed can kill you. You are perhaps the only person I have encountered who claims otherwise. Or haven't you seen the term "zzz" typed in your team window?
Sorry but why was your dominator dying to mezzes? ST hold/disorients in blast sets kept all corruptors/blasters/defenders relatively mez-free throughout the game and with inspiration conversion I rarely run out of break frees in mission for when I do get hit. It's even less likely on my dom and controller because of AoE holds stacking on top of ST holds right from the start.
-Recharge does not stop an alpha. I'm not "discounting" -Recharge at all. In fact I wrote a whole not-guide to it not that long ago (which I can now only find in Google's cache): http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=usQuote:-Recharge and -Res/-Def makes for less attempted attacks in the first place, it's a very effective combo when combined with cold's shields and fog and isn't something you're taking into account. It's not as significant of a difference in protection as you would like to believe.
Regardless I have to head to work now. I'm sure we will continue when I get back.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski
I'm not seeing massive damage or -Res/+dmg associated with Repulsion bomb. Only slightly higher damage than defender non-pet AoE blasts for double the recharge and double the cast time.
I'm curious about your opinion of various Force Field builds. I don't happen to have a Defender build on hand, but I do have an unfinished version of my Elec/Force Field Controller. I'm thinking of dropping some of the extra defense to switch to the Mu Mastery set so I can summon (and shield) a pet that can heal me and the team and help some with endurance costs. Some of what I've done here could be done better with Traps if the only goal is self-defense, but it wasn't. I wanted the ability to shield allies too. Regardless, this is a build Cold Domination could never match (and again, its mezz protected so that it can leave its aura on 24/7 and have very little risk of ever getting slept because of capped Psionic defense).
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.803
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
electric ff: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Electric Control
Secondary Power Set: Force Field
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Tesla Cage -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(3), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Dev'n-Hold%(17)
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A)
Level 2: Deflection Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(7)
Level 4: Chain Fences -- Ragnrk-Knock%(A), GravAnch-Hold%(7), Acc-I(9)
Level 6: Jolting Chain -- Apoc-Dmg(A), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(9), Apoc-Dam%(11), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(15), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(17)
Level 8: Conductive Aura -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(A), Efficacy-EndMod(29), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(29)
Level 10: Insulation Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(11)
Level 12: Static Field -- FtnHyp-Sleep/Rchg(A), FtnHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(13), FtnHyp-Sleep(13), FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(34), FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 16: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(25), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 18: Paralyzing Blast -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg(19), Lock-Rchg/Hold(19), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(21), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(21), Lock-%Hold(23)
Level 20: Dispersion Bubble -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 22: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GA-3defTpProc(39), Aegis-ResDam(40), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(43), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 26: Synaptic Overload -- CoPers-Conf(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(27), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(27), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(31), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(31), CoPers-Conf%(34)
Level 28: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def(A), HO:Cyto(40), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(43), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 32: Gremlins -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(33), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(33), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), BldM'dt-Acc(34), BldM'dt-Dmg(37)
Level 35: Repulsion Bomb -- Det'tn-Acc/Dmg(A), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(36), Det'tn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rng(37)
Level 38: Super Speed -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 41: Poisonous Ray -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(42), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Dev'n-Hold%(46)
Level 44: Scorpion Shield -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Summon Tarantula -- C'Arms-Acc/Rchg(A), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg(48), C'Arms-Dmg/EndRdx(48), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), C'Arms-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(50), C'Arms-+Def(Pets)(50)
Level 49: Disruptor Blast -- HO:Nucle(A), Dmg-I(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 4: Ninja Run
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Set Bonus Totals:- 17% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 17% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 17% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 17% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 17% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 17% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 17% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 17% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 5% Defense
- 6% Defense(Smashing)
- 6% Defense(Lethal)
- 16.3% Defense(Fire)
- 16.3% Defense(Cold)
- 12.3% Defense(Energy)
- 12.3% Defense(Negative)
- 18.5% Defense(Psionic)
- 6% Defense(Melee)
- 18.5% Defense(Ranged)
- 19.1% Defense(AoE)
- 2.5% Enhancement(Held)
- 4% Enhancement(Confused)
- 73.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 42% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 137.3 HP (13.5%) HitPoints
- Knockback (Mag -4)
- Knockup (Mag -4)
- MezResist(Held) 8.8%
- MezResist(Sleep) 1.65%
- MezResist(Stun) 1.65%
- 12% (0.2 End/sec) Recovery
- 90% (3.82 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 1.89% Resistance(Smashing)
- 1.89% Resistance(Lethal)
- 2.52% Resistance(Fire)
- 2.52% Resistance(Cold)
- 1.88% Resistance(Energy)
- 5% RunSpeed
- 1% XPDebtProtection
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