Obitus

Yes, i suppose Energy Manipulation is also evil because manipulating people isn't nice.

We're exerting our wills to lower the temperature and manipulate the effects that result. Just as it isn't intrinsically evil for a police officer to carry a gun, cold powers aren't inherently immoral.

Judge the wielder, not the weapon.

In any case, if we were closely to examine the logical disconnect between the notion that all of our in-game kills are arrests, and what is actually displayed on the screen, then the name of a given Defender powerset doesn't even rate mention. Far more problematic is the practice of, say -- oh I don't know -- shooting our foes with an assault rifle or a bow, throwing sharp knives at them, lighting them on fire, slicin them apart with swords, flinging visibly glowing radation at them, or any number of other amusing pursuits.

If any of that were really a concern, you should be campaigning to have the drop-as-if-dead-to-the-floor animations following a foe's defeat changed to a hand-cuff-and-read-them-their-rights animation. Might hurt gameplay just a tad, though.

Granted, it would be difficult for a Controller (particularly one who likes to rely on powers like Arctic Air) to skip Stamina without sizeable +recharge bonuses to power Heat Loss.

I tend to assume, though, that when we're talking about Numina and Miracle, that we're also including a budget for +recharge bonuses. Controllers have a pretty good situation when it comes to slotting for global recharge, too; a lot of controllery sets are (much) cheaper than their melee/ranged/AoE attack analogues.

In any case, giving some though to rerolling my Ice/Storm as Ice/Cold. Storm's not doing it for me lately. Then again, I have a Cold/Sonic Defender I really like already, so maybe we'll give it a miss. I'm glad Controllers have the option to take Cold now, regardless.

Edit: Still wish Jack wasn't such a pansy, though. I haven't played extensively on my Ice Controller lately; Jack's attack cycle is still a little borked, isn't it?

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While I agree with you, FW is marginally more useful to controllers who solo, since then they can at least use it & the shields on their pet(s). No, I'll never be taking this power myself (tried it a bit on my Defender--was pretty useless).

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It's useful as a mule for heal IOs, in the event that you skip Fitness. If you take FW for the +recovery bonuses (which, yes, you'd have to refresh every two minutes, but if you have a pet anyway ...), then you can save two power picks and still have some decent recovery if/when you exemp below Heat Loss.

Kind of a niche use for the power, I admit, but it's not as if it's entirely useless on its own merits.

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There will not be an alternate animation for every power, but the potential to add new animations or even plug in existing animations that work for the power is there.

Right now we have an alternate animation for Jab, Punch, Haymaker, Foot Stomp, and Knockout Blow that are intended for players who want to play a more 'heroic' super strength character (compared to the somewhat smashy super strength that we have now). Most of those are completely new animations.

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Hells. Bleeping. Yes.

Thank you!

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All good answers. So, what about my math, is it correct? Is there no way to Solo Dominatrix as a tank? Is there no way to Solo, almost that whole list when you use SS?

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Before ED, I soloed Dominatrix on an MA Scrapper. Granted, that was the old version of MA with the gimpy animations, but I also had 100% more in damage slotting.

How long did it take? About 50 minutes, IIRC.

Even if it's possible to solo that bleep on a Tanker, I still wouldn't bother. There's possible and then there's sensible; almost any build, no matter how uber, is going to have specific AVs it can't realistically solo. That goes double for melee builds. Perhaps triple for Tankers.

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in fact, if anything, most likely you'll have nerfed the living crap out of the two Defender blast sets which do deliver decent levels of damage. Oh, and for good measure, you'll likely have nerfed the snot out of Corruptor rain powers, too.


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I would trade lower -Res values on defender Sonic blast and reduced damage on rains (for both corr and defenders) for higher defender base damage all around any day.

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Therein lies the problem. If you raise Defender base damage by any appreciable amount, then you have to do something for Corruptors too.

It's not a step that will be taken lightly.

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If the buff/debuff scalar was consistent and equal to the corr damage scalar, this would be true. However end up with half of entire sets being filled with powers that have the same numbers for both corrs and defenders.

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Agreed. My point was that, even if we ignore all of that, Corruptors still have a numerical advantage -- namely, Scourge.

Of course it's not that simple, but it seems fair to say that the minutiae tend to favor Corruptors, maybe not in every single case, but most of the time.

Either way, there will always be people who roll this or that AT, even if that AT is totally outclassed by another. Given that Defenders are perceived to fill that classic RPG/MMO role of support -- and perceived to fill it moreso than any other -- Defenders are unlikely ever to drop below a certain threshold of popularity, no matter what ATs compete with them on paper.

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no, it's more of the fact it would be too much work to make support powers consistent when going from primary to secondary like damage and self protection sets do. just like how it would be too much work to make rain powers not use blaster damage.

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We can speculate all day long about why or why not there'll be buffs to the archetype, what form those buffs would/could/should take, but it seems safe to say that Defenders are in a bit of a box right now, because of their relationship with Corruptors/Controllers/Blasters, and because of the stupidly high effectiveness of (de)buff-heavy teams, regardless of their constituent archetypes.

Whatever you think the devs' motivations are, the bottom line is that any wholesale buff to Defenders would be extremely difficult to balance. Making numbers more consistent would only be a prelude to a more comprehensive set of changes; it would make the subsequent job a little easier, but it wouldn't accomplish a whole hell of a lot in and of itself.

Afterwards, you might be able to say that Defenders are a little better balanced with Corruptors (sans Scourge), but you won't have answered the complaints of those who feel that Defenders don't do enough damage, or those who feel that Controllers are still better overall support characters; in fact, if anything, most likely you'll have nerfed the living crap out of the two Defender blast sets which do deliver decent levels of damage. Oh, and for good measure, you'll likely have nerfed the snot out of Corruptor rain powers, too.

(QR)

If we assume that Corruptors' damage scalar advantage is cancelled out by Defenders' buff/debuff scalar advantage, then we're left with one inescapable conclusion:

Scourge > Vigilance

There is, however, a psychological advantage for the Defender with respect to team play; Defenders seem to be, regardless of any numerical argument, the most attractive invitees. People go gaga over that shield icon.

For that reason alone, we'll never see Defenders dwindle into complete obscurity.

And because the devs are leery of the balance implications of stacked buff/debuff teams, we'll probably never see a significant buff to Defenders as a whole AT.

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Primaries aside, the AOE situation is more risky for a dom than a blaster.

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Thanks for the laugh.

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What gets me is that evidently most of the people who are really upset by this change have figured out a way to play that most players never even think of or can't afford

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Yes, because Hasten is so obscure, and so very expensive.

And Speed Boost, and Accelerate Metabolism, and Adrenaline Boost ...

Animate Stone: More damage, more sturdiness, more tauntiness.

Jack Frost: Less damage, glass jaw.

No amount of what's-your-secondary, how-are-your-IOs arguments is going to change that there's something wrong with the above equation.

Earth is pretty clearly the superior control set for general purposes, and the two sets have almost identical personal damage potential -- which is to say that both have crappy direct damage options, supposedly to make up for their so-called uber control.

So why should Earth also have the sturdier and more offensively powerful pet? Are ugly graphics a valid balancing metric?

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Dear newer players,

Your advantage is that you have started playing when the game was in a more advanced state than it was in the beginning.

You didn't have to deal with the same buggy missions, early-level travel issues, the lack of radio/newspapers and the lack of a difficulty slider. You didn't have to wait for the level cap to be raised to 50. You didn't have to wait for capes/auras to be introduced, or or for any number of new costumes/pieces. You didn't have to wait for APPs, PPPs, HEATs, VEATs. You didn't have to wait for respecs, the markets, or IOs. In short, you didn't have to wait for a countless number of quantitative/qualitative changes which have improved the game over time.

Veterans did have to wait for many if not all of those things. Anyone who will be eligible for the 60-month badge any time soon will have waited for every single one. So sure, argue all you like that the fees vets have paid were "for five years of fun, and they would have paid anyway!" Just do keep in mind that the game is a much better product now -- and I don't believe it's a stretch to conclude that the participation of those very vets is a large reason for many of the game's improvements over the last five years.

That's your perk.

The 60-month badge is not as big a deal as some are making it out to be. Travel powers are optional, nowadays, more so than they ever were before -- and at least for some people, the usefulness of the pre-requisites is among the main reasons they take travel powers at all. Temp powers are marginally inferior mechanically, and certainly inferior conceptually, to normal pool travel powers, but they also don't cost power picks (and perhaps more importantly, pool picks).

Saving a power pick or having more flexibility in the early part of a build if they choose to take a travel power is the extremely long-time vets' perk. Take it from someone who's been around awhile; you've gotten the better part of this deal.

Sincerely,

Level Six Flyer.

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Back in the day, we dealt with a lot of frustrations like frontloading and bosses in standard-difficulty missions (since there was no other kind!), but I really think that they were preferable to the current newbie experience.

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Good point. I hadn't thought of it that way.

Another thought to add to the mix, vis-a-vis the old versus new newbie experience: The over-arching context of MMORPGs was different, and thus, the audience (players) may have been more tolerant of frustration. WoW, if memory serves, hadn't been launched yet, and MMOs were much moreso a niche market. Back then, CoH, even with all of its warts, was about the most casual-friendly game going (and still is, IMO).

Nowadays, I don't think it's terribly constructive to point out that most other MMOs make you jump through far more hoops, make you endure far more needless annoyances and timesinks. A new player has far less reason to bow to that sort of logic; either it's fun to play, or it isn't.

This is the only game I think I've ever heard of which becomes orders of magnitude easier in the later levels -- and that's from a purely mechanical perspective. The least the devs could do is smooth out the low-level content so that there are fewer frustrations for the uninitiated. CoV is much better, but there's still room for improvement there, too.

About the only complaint with which I'd disagree in the OP is his comment with respect to content updates. CoH has received an absolutely enormous amount of free content updates since launch. The wedding pack, as others have pointed out, was more an experiment than anything, and nothing offered in the wedding pack influences actual gameplay, as far as I know. It's purely fluff, unless you just absolutely have to have one of the costume pieces for a character concept.

Nice guide.

Just a note: Flash Freeze is a ranged power. It's not a PBAoE.

It can be a useful solo opener, and very occasionally a good "oh noes, the blaster just aggroed a second spawn" power.

My fault. I misread what you said.

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That's not what I'm saying. The error is in the level modifier, not the rank modifier. Is a +3 boss:
1) 0.65*1.15=0.7475 or
2) 0.65+0.15=0.80 ?

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It's neither. I don't know for certain what the +level modifiers are, because the now-famous purple patch by geko is hopelessly out of date, as proven out by player-character accuracy tests since. However, if we assume that States' numbers are correct, then what you're looking at now is:

.5 * 1.3 * 1.3 = .845 modified chance to hit.

You'll note that that's extremely close to the player-tested numbers you cite for the current system. 1.2667 * .65 = ~.823

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I've tracked down the error in the "Before" case. Statesman says:
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The To Hit chance also increased over level. A +1 level had a 1.05 modifier, +2 level 1.1 and +3 1.15. For example, the base to hit chance of a lieutenant +2 levels was .58*1.1 or 63.8%.

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As iakona shows, the math doesn't work using these base to hit chances. However, if the level modifiers are additive rather than multiplicative, the numbers match perfectly. (In other words, a +3 boss would have a base to hit of 0.65+0.15=0.80). Which leads to the question: which is wrong, the explanation or the math?

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Well, the way he wrote the math was wrong, but that's not a big deal.

The whole point of the Issue 7 DEF changes is that the old system WAS additive (ToHit buff), and the new one is multiplicative (Accuracy buff). So States' explanation was correct; his example was just wrong.

Old system: Even boss had a .5 + .15 = .65 modified chance to hit.

New system: Even boss has a .5 * 1.3 = .65 modified chance to hit.

States, are you taking into account that +level mobs resist debuffs? Or is that changing in Issue 7 as well?

If the system remains as-is in that regard, then DEF will be calculated differently from ToHit debuff against +level mobs.

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The inherent problem of course with flat duration-limited buffs is that if it lasts too long, you'll get large SGs essentially running them for hours on end in PvP zones. Most likely the buffs will have to remain uselessly inconvenient in PvE so that they don't become godly in PvP.

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That's very true. But again, even as it stands now, short-duration crafted buffs will favor attackers in Raid PvP. And Attackers already seem to have a fairly large advantage.

That is, unless the buffs are prohibitively expensive to craft, which would invalidate their use in PvE.

All in all, the whole concept of craftable buffs seems like a balance nightmare once you factor in PvP. Temp powers are ALREADY arguably abused in PvP zones. There's a poster in this very thread who talks about using them all the time on her Stalker, for instance.

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Let us craft temp powers for crying out loud. We're getting all these broken weapons, let us fix them and use them! Also, will the base hospitals once again place you exactly where you died ever again?

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(Nice avatar. That's what Super Strength should look like.)

Yeah, the whole 15-minute buff thing sounds pretty unhelpful. If the primary PVE purpose of the empowerments stations is as Positron says -- to help you with a difficult spot in a mission -- then I see no reason why I wouldn't just go load up on Inspirations. It's easier, faster, and -- depending on the salvage recipes required for the temp buffs -- cheaper. Apart from the duration advantage, which is largely wasted with travel time, there's practically no appeal the devs could offer the buff over a full tray of mixed Lucks, Rages, Insights, CaBs.

For PvP, I see yet another attacker-centric bonus. As if we needed more of those. Defenders won't be able to craft buffs in the middle of a raid, but attackers will have all the time in the world to saunter over to the workbench in their base, and craft buffs.

Temp powers would be *so* much better.

Edit: Oh, and it'd be great if the base teleported you back to where you died. As it stands, there's little purpose in using the base rezzer unless you were in a hazard-zone mission. Hell, there's little purpose to the entire base to a PvE player except if you were in a hazard-zone mission.

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Get dressed for an interview in your bedroom.
Rehearse for a play in your sitting room.
Read about wild animals in your bed.

Get the idea?

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Heh. I have to say, at least two of those three sound much more interesting if you read them the way GoodHumorMan does.

That's certainly a valid viewpoint, Resonance, and you're welcome to it.

However, given the way expansion packs work in pretty much every other MMO, and given what we -- as CoH customers -- have already gotten without paying one red cent, I don't think the $15 is unreasonable by any reckoning.

Even if you look at that $15 as just a means to meet with your Supergroup in the base, that's not without precedent. In other games, if you don't buy an expansion, you might not, for instance, have access to entire zones, equipment, even buildings. How is what you describe -- being cut off from joining your SG-mates in the base -- really any different from being cut off from joining your SG-mates who are all off in another zone which is inaccessible to you?

I'm not saying I'm thrilled with the decision to restrict bases to CoV owners. I'm not, really. But considering all of the work they've already done on the original game, and considering that they ARE a for-profit business, it shouldn't shock anyone that they're looking for incentives for people to buy their new product.

The CoV side leaves me a bit cold, too, to be honest. It's actually a bit ironic when you think about it; bases require so much participation on the part of SG members that -- particularly if you play in a small group -- splitting your time between the villain and hero side is a really hard pill to swallow. So in a sense, by making bases such an integral part of CoV, by requiring CoV to get bases, the devs are also deterring people from wanting to play on the villain side.

Anyway, long ramble. The point is, it's pretty cheap to buy CoV, all things considered. If you object on principle, that is of course your prerogative. I would imagine you haven't played other MMOs to any great extent, though. Everything is relative, after all.

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Are there any plans to let Hero players get into their SG bases, as opposed to just Villain players that also play heroside?

None of this is at all useful if you can't actually get in.

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::sigh::

Go buy CoV for $30 at a store. "UPGRADE" your account and you get a free month.

Net cost: $15

That's $15 for four extra slots per server, a whole game's worth of new content, access to all of the SG Base features, and (probably in Issue 7) hero-access to the tons of new CoV costume options.

Seems like a pretty good deal to me...but that's just me. Obviously some don't agree.

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How dare you start using logic on this subject?

Great post.

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Actually, with this, there's less of a need for an inf bank.

You can buy enhs, put them in the storage bin, switch to your lowbie, retrieve the enhs from the storage bin.

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Heh. That'd take awhile...

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ok...So?

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Reread the sentence of mine that you quoted. I specifically mentioned Villains.

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They don't have to one shot you. They've got the ability to neuter you so that they can take their time with you. A Stalker can't take its time with anyone. The danger for a stalker staying out in the open grows exponentially with each passing moment.

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Yeah, and who said the Stalkers were out in the open?

I'm fully aware of the dangers that Controllers pose. I'm also fully aware of the dangers that Corrupters pose (which is, as it happens, more relevent in this case). I think you're looking at this from a more one-on-one perspective, though. In the team situation I'm referring to, I had my own squishies to keep their squishies off my back.

My job was to make sure that the three opportunistic Stalkers didn't have an easy job picking off anyone in my team who was engaged with another Villain, and that includes myself. It was also -- I guess because the Brutes were stupid in this one scenario -- to occupy the trail of brutes who kept jumping after me ineffectually.

Seriously, are you arguing with me just for the sake of argument? Is there some sort of rule that you must contradict everything I say? Are you seriously trying to make the point that Stalkers AREN'T dangerous? That people SHOULDN'T attempt to go after them when they've actually, however briefly, exposed themselves? Are you honestly not aware that Stalkers, particularly multiple Stalkers, can hang on the fringes of a pitched battle and coordinate Assassins Strikes for instant kills, even when they are partially visible?

Oh, I get it. You're just trying to preserve that strategy for yourself.

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The largest threat, is a controller. They can debuff you, buff their teammates, heal them... and turn you into a defenseless punching bag.

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1. Controllers aren't Villains.

2. Controllers can't effectively one-shot me when I'm -- you guessed it -- engaged with the Controller.

The bottom line is that the villains were using their non-Stalkers as bait for the Stalkers. That the other villains were a huge threat too is almost immaterial. What I do/did, then, was engage squishies, and when I saw a Stalker, I'd break off and go after them -- taking care not to stay in one place for more than 4-5 seconds.

In other words, the Stalkers in this particular example made it almost impossible to kill anyone else. One literally *had* to go after them first. Once the Stalkers were dead or fled, the rest fell pretty quickly.