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Quote:Different ways to explain.
Then how do you explain a db/elec being one of the top rikti pylon soloers?
1/ Simple. Shield hasn't access to DB (or Claws, or Katana). Granted, AaO would be comparatively less impressive for DB/Claws because of BF/FU, but on a Katana ? The 300 DPS barrier would be trivial to break.
2/ Well made build with extreme focus on ST damage, probably the best you can get out of a DB/Elec.
Are the DM/SD and FM/SD builds on that list nearly as optimized ? I'm inclined to believe Iggy's FM/SD 276 DPS might be close (he lacks Aid Self and has Assault, IIRC), but even Mojo's 289 DM/SD probably don't or had an unlucky run, seeing as Shred did 300+ DPS on his own DM/SD in an AV fight early on.
You're falling into the same logical loophole as many do, extrapolating too much from an insolated example. The only DM/inv on the list is on the bottom at 148 DPS, does that mean DM/inv has the worst DPS ? No, it's just that Aliana had a build focused on survivability at the time, and I don't think it wasn't even complete when he took down that pylon.
What examples are good at is to tell you what happens on average (that's how we do statistics) ; and without involving any maths, you can clearly see Shield owns 17 of the 20 first positions, and the whole top 5. There's a reason for such a trend.
If more combos, optimized to the max for ST DPS, were represented, you'd probably see Kat/Elec slightly above DB/Elec, Claws/Elec at about the same spot as DB/Elec, Kat/Fire, DB/Fire and Claws/Fire slightly under these... So, why don't you see these combos already ? Simply because unlike Shield, they don't combine extreme survivability with extreme damage, they have to chose - see the 2 Kat/FA at 175 and 160, which I assume were using Divine Avalanche chains.
Comparing a 260 DPS DB/Elec built for maximum ST DPS with a DM/SD that does a 280+ DPS chain that also gives him the equivalent of +~30hp/s while being at the softcap with capped DDR, the survivability gap is enormous. The DB/Elec should be at least doing 320-340 DPS for it to be somehow balanced - or more likely, the DM/SD should be brought down. Don't shout nerf just yet - I'm just speaking about a hypothetical situation where we'd balance stuff out of top end ST DPS. My point here is having one player on one specific build almost making it to the best recorded 5 shield builds in ST DPS while still having much lower survivability is more of an argument proving Shield is too strong than anything else... -
Quote:As you said, it depends of the build, choices and such. Looking at a DMInv Mids build I made with Gloom and DN, it recovers 3.46 eps and uses 0.97 eps from toggles (while DN is off), for a net boost of 2.49. Add +0.2 for the proc, that'd be 2.69 (let's say 2.7).
How much recovery would you need to sustain that if you were also using DC?
With a 4.5 EPS chain, you'd lose 1.8 endurance per second. In a 1vs1 scenario, DC would give back 50 end every ~56 seconds, which wouldn't be enough. With another enemy to boost DC, it'd jump to about 100, which is theorically just fine ... However, that's averaged. In actual gameplay it probably would go wrong every now and then, say PP doesn't proc for too long, Hasten crashes at the wrong time or DC misses. Just as well, it'd likely involve using a boss, otherwise SD + DC would eventually kill it ; that's a bit more incoming damage to handle, which, in some situations, might be more than the survivability boost DN provides.
After typing all that I realise 100/56 is 1.78. So it wouldn't be fine even in a best case scenario, you'd have to use a second boss.
This is just at a quick glance and maybe there's a way to make it work that I overlooked. The build I was looking at was softcapped to F/C/E/N and missing about 2% to S/L with 1 foe in range, could run SM MG SM SL with procs in SM, maximum healing in SL, maximum regen in health, as much resistance as possible with slotting passives and the shield wall IO ; you could probably switch slotting focus to offense / end management (impervium armor instead of reactive armor in toggles, for example) and do better. -
I find your reasoning to be spot on. It seems like you'd enjoy the WP/Fire most so you should probably go with that.
Quills adds a lot to AoE damage, not as much as typical damage auras in secondaries, but still a great boost. That said, the best AoE in Spines (Throw Spines) is a cone, so if you dislike these it's best to avoid Spines. -
Could be. My own tracking gave me ~1/3000 (6 purples in 19154 kills, or 1/3192.33), and at the time I saw other people talking about 1/3000 so I never bothered to check further, I've got to admit that wasn't very reliable.
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1m/hour is what a soloing emp defender built for teaming should make, running normal missions. There was a topic about that, I'm not just pulling this out of my ***.
A more reasonable number for an average farmer, given current market prices, should be somewhere in the 20-40m range, and a good one should manage 100-200m/hour easily. All it takes is purples, and you should get about one purple (~3000 kills) per hour ; although obviously averages are just that, some days you'll get nothing during hours and some days you'll get 4 purps in 2 hours. -
Slotting endmod over +end in PP is shooting yourself in the foot. PP gives +12.5% base, so 3 end mod slots will give you an additional +12%. That's +0.22 EPS with 110 max end. One +end proc is almost as good (~+0.2 EPS) and you save 2 slots.
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Another point in favor of a Burn buff is animation time/recharges. Burn animates a lot slower and recharges a lot faster than SC, in the above scenario you'd spend roughly 3-4 times as long using Burn as you would using SC - meaning the Shielder has more time to use other attacks and do more damage.
There's also a much bigger potential for wasted damage with Burn, as its full damage requires targets to stay in the patch for ten seconds. This can just as well translate into reduced mobility for the player - staying in patch so mobs stay there too, rather than repositioning for cones or getting everything in melee range.
(To be fair, SC also wastes damage sometimes due to sheer overkill, but while putting even rough numbers on it would be complicated I'm pretty sure even a fearless Burn would still waste more damage.) -
141 was the pre-buff SC damage - can you believe they *buffed* it ? I still can't.
Indeed, it does 200 base for scrappers now. -
Quote:Can't say I agree on that one. For AV soloing, endurance management is key and DN costs a lot for a minimal return (-tohit is heavily resisted to the point of being negligible, and -dam, while nice, isn't that useful for the endurance cost). Gloom is a powerful attack in DPA but terrible DPE. Dark Consumption alone won't be enough - it's actually not even enough to sustain the normal Smite MG Smite SL chain for me, at least without making unacceptable sacrifices in other areas of the build.
If you do end up wanting an extreme AV soloing build, obviously Gloom and Darkest Night will be key.
I much prefer the Mu Striker, which can be summoned at range and adds about 30 DPS during its 4 minutes duration, all for a one time fee of 26 end. That's pretty much the textbook definition of endurance efficiency here.
Gloom and DN are best left to teaming (that said, I'd rather have E. Fences and Ball Lightning there) or taking on +4/x8 stuff. -
While your screens are higher quality, I can't help but feel many of them miss the mark, compared to the originals.
Specifics :
- Galaxy City : the original plays on the galaxy theme by showing the sky, the moon, the stars.
- Kings Row : in the original, that close up on the garbage bin and dirty streets highlights well the "ghetto" feel of KR.
- Steel Canyon : as mentioned, skyscrapers.
- Faultline : the original is cleverly made, starting from the rebuilding in the bottom and showing a rebuilt area on top.
Great login screen, though. -
Alright. Yeah, I can see what you mean (I think). Some people, especially veteran MMO players, sometimes consider the best combo to be the baseline and everything else to be gimped, and might avoid even trying other sets if they're told Shield is king. I'm stuck in the CoH mentality where everyone is awesome and some are just a little bit more awesome than others, and didn't make the jump to a potential new player's perspective.
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More endgame content and shinies ; that is to say, we should be getting a lot already with the Incarnate system, I just want even more of it.
I'd also like to see content with unique and interesting rewards introduced, with mechanics challenging the buff/debuff stack and high defense/DDR kind of play, but I don't think it'd be good for the game. -
Quote:I'm inclined to agree with that statement.
That even if other Scrappers can say, run solo missions +4 x8, they can't do it as fast as /Shield can.
SC, on SOs, outperforms damage auras before AaO is factored in. With AaO and IOs, Shield scrappers are quite a bit ahead of every other secondary (and indeed, ahead of many blasters as well) when it comes to damage output.
Other secondaries can do specific things better than Shield in specific scenarios, but usually it relates to survivability in situations where DDR doesn't matter.
It's often said Shield is bad on SOs ; I couldn't disagree more with that. Shield is head and shoulders above anything else on SOs as long as you play to its strengths.
I've seen people make the "X is bad for [specific situation]" claim for one other very popular combo, fire/kin. They were also wrong here. I think the reasons are multiple. Part of it might be players of the combo who have no doubt it's OPed and fear a nerf, so try to downplay how strong it is in public ; the other part might be that the combo is so strong that many players flock to it, including people who're looking for an "I win" button. The latter tend to be mediocre players, and many are inclined to take their casual experience of seeing a bunch of people play the combo poorly and assume that means it isn't all that great.
Ultimately, I don't think it's fair to mislead people away from Shield if what they want is to play the most powerful thing. If you want to promote diversity, the best step is play your Shield characters less if at all and instead push yourself harder to do awesome things with other secondaries. Lead by example. How many Kat/DA did we actually see before Werner posted about his ? It works. -
I haven't found endurance to be more of a problem on SoAs than on any other AT without specific end management powers (in some cases, I find it even easier, i.e. soldiers get pets which are very end efficient).
The lack of DDR does hurt occasionally, but to be honest I find the low HP to be more of a problem - it rarely takes more than one luck to deal with def debuffs, but it can take a hell of a lot of sturdies to not die to burst damage given hard enough mobs. It's still a great, easy soloing AT most of the time, which is nicer than you'd expect seeing how strong the team buffs/debuffs are. -
IMHO :
- Kat/ELA for ST DPS (DB/ELA being a close second)
Lightning Reflexes help those primaries attain their super high recharge chains, and Energize (+ CP/PP) keeps you going as these chains are also end heavy. Lightning Field is a great boost especially as it benefits from the two -res procs you're going to be able to slot.
- Spines/ELA for AoE damage.
The usual spines goodness without having to care about end, and double damage auras. The only downside about this combo is stuff tend to run away between the end drains and spines dots, so you better attack fast (to stack slows) or pick ET (to keep stuff on their butt).
- Claws/ELA for a nice mix of both.
Nothing specific to say about this. It's Claws, great ST damage, great AoE damage and great mitigation.
Reasons I didn't pick other primaries (doesn't mean they're bad, but rather than there's not necessarily as much synergy as there is with the above examples):
- Fire
Stuff is going to run away, and you've got nothing to prevent it from happening.
- DM
While Siphon Life is still going to be great, it doesn't make the same difference as it does with secondaries lacking heals. Soul Drain is nice, but in prolonged fights against a single tough target Lightning Field works against it by killing its fodder. Finally, while -tohit as a secondary effect is cool ELA starts without defense, and building for top DPS doesn't leave much room to increase defense.
- BS
For DPS purposes, it's just Katana only slightly weaker.
- MA
It's MA. Sorry. -
I'm sure you can take Domi on your Kat/ELA, you certainly have the DPS. She's at 50% res, so theorically, 187+ is all you need.
I had ~202 on my DB/WP and her life went down, although way too slowly - didn't bother to stick for longer than a few minutes, I estimate it would have taken me one hour or so. I think I was just barely above her regen, with 219 (the number you reported in the rikti pylon thread IIRC) it should go much faster, albeit still slow.
Diabolique can be taken down with about 200 DPS, although this is highly dependant of your unsuppressed movement, your defense (by which I mean, does she hit with Siphon Speed and Siphon Power or not) and the environment (I find her easier to manage in the graveyard mission, it's outdoors so you can always keep up with her without bumping into corners like in that oranbega cave). -
Quote:I call BS.
*5 spawns later*
"Whee. This is fun. Tank, are you coming, you're missing out on some serious fun here!"
Most of these tankers throw a fit and leave by the second or third spawn. -
I tend to agree with Catwhoorg. Even 100B (in combined assets) isn't that much nowadays, as putting together a maxed out, BUY IT NOW build on vill side might cost up to 15-20 billions.
(Keywords bolded before someone jump in with "oh well my super duper vill build cost me 300m".) -
Quote:That'd be true if SC and LR recharged in 5 seconds, but it's closer to 25s ; you can either use one and lieuts + bosses will be alive, or both and have to rely on other attacks until it's recharged. So, JL and CI get a lot of AoE use, at least for me.
Shield charge + LR will kill everything except for bosses, and then Jacob's Ladder and CI become expensive single target attacks.
Quote:FSC + fireball + FSC.
... I guess you could argue you didn't imply "without gaps", but then recharge is irrelevant, isn't it ? On SOs you can just as well do FSC -> FB -> FSC, the gap is just a bit longer. -
MA > Badges = PVP (= 0)
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IMHO, S/L alone is better than F/C/E/N, even on an inv, due to the overwhelming number of S/L attacks and most defense debuffs being S/L.
Most cold attacks have a smash component so roll against S/L def as well, the same is true for fire melee attacks and some ranged powers (fireball). -
Most alts I've created in 2010 were under the assumption this would happen. It makes a big difference for brutes, at least for me - access to conserve power will make lots of endurance heavy builds much more fun to play solo.
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FFG will do a lot more for you than TB. On top of defense (which, by itself, is enough to be better than TB in my opinion), it's also status protection. I think you should pick it first.
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I'd say you're both right (or wrong, all a matter of perspective)
A small part of the PvP playerbase were hardcores, leveled tons of characters (so could run semi-optimized teams), and PvP itself involves coordination, which also helps in PvE. That said, I've frequently seen people considered skilled PvPers who would not even dare to run a RSF outside of their mind dom and/or stone brute and/or buffdebuff stack, much like they would throw a fit at people using the environment in zone PvP and argue for controlled fights in arena.
In older MMO games, PVP centered ones, people like that used to be called scrubs or carebears (probably still would be). As this MMO is much more casual and easy, here they can be the "elite" PVPers, but complaining as soon as you're pushed outside of your comfort zone is still the exact opposite of skillful play, no matter what's the current perception.
In that small part of the PvP playerbase, you then have a few individuals who, unlike the above, are really great at the game, are the ones who develop strategies/builds, are capable if not willing of running unorthodox teams and fighting against stacked odds and having success doing all that ; there's no doubt these guys would be amongst the best players, PvP or PvE. These guys are few and far between though, and most others are just mindless followers who copypaste builds and tactics without thinking twice.
Then you've got the rest, the biggest part of the PvP crowd, which is kids shouting "lol I pwn j00" in broadcast and generally being stupid in every aspect. "Elite" PvPers like to claim these guys aren't "real" PvPers, but unfortunately they're very much part of the PvP playerbase, much like any firekinfarmerbob1337 who's spamming PI BC in all caps is part of the PvE playerbase.
So, as crazy as it might sound, I've almost described just any MMO human group : a large horde of nitwits, a smaller amount of dudes who aren't all that great but make up for it by playing a lot, and a tiny amount of folks who are really good. The only people missing in this description (and admittedly, a significant part of any community) being the silent ones, who enjoy the game but don't play all that much nor care enough to get passionate about it, so never get noticed by "hardcore" folks.
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Ontopic : I'm still getting better XP in AE than anywhere else, if you guys suck too much to get great XP in AE without exploits, that's fine, but let's not ruin it for everyone else, thank you very much. -
Quote:It might help even more without hasten than with it. A DPS chain without Hasten would probably use Swipe often, to fill gaps. Poison Dart, with its 1.5s animation (before server ticks are factored in) isn't as good for that purpose.
Would swapping out dart for swipe help without hasten?
Then again...
Quote:What would you do different?
I'd really recommend Hasten. I know you don't want it, it's just that it does so much for NWs. These extremely quick animations with (relatively speaking) high recharges just beg for +recharge.
Add to that, as Person34 pointed out, NWs haven't a big HP pool. My experience mirrors his, a NW is going to use Aid Self a lot for any non-psy AV fight (and can die easily from two lucky hits in a row). It's really the kind of character where you have to go in with a "kill or be killed" mentality and need as much DPS as possible, because the dice will turn against you if the fight lasts long enough.
In the end, I don't think you should change your build so drastically for AV soloing. It's, ultimately, a tiny portion of what you're going to do. I doubt even the most ardent AV soloers spend more than 10% of their time doing so. Your build would certainly be great for normal soloing and all the other stuff you mentioned.
I see certains things you could change/optimize, though. Slotting Mask Presence and CT: D rather than IW would give you more defense for less slots. You could also put the Steadfast IO in IW then and save another slot. Hover is past the ED cap with Fly slotting, and I don't think you'd notice the 7% difference if you removed one of the Fly IOs.
As for what to do with these slots, you could add some health slotting to Health - while NWs don't get much from regen, they still get something and the more you have the less you'll have to spend time with Aid Self. You could just as well add slots to Lunge, Poison Dart or Spin for procs, recharge or endurance as you see fit, or maybe end reduction to Assault.