NewScrapper
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:WHAT??? Glad I read about this before I bought anything. Magic and Science are definite buys. I'll see what's left after that. (Probably Cyborg & Wedding, in which case I'll get Cyborg, then try for Wedding.)Originally Posted by Cende
There's a limit of 3 items per day per household, regardless of which credit card you use. -
Quote:And you have the corresponding bragging rights, even if you don't choose to use them.Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
...when I got my first 50s:
- Debt started at 5
- There was no debt smoothing
- The debt cap was doubled - and yes, I hit the 1.1 million debt cap.
- There was a *bad* content gap from 38-40, worse if you got too much debt early on (and my first was a blaster,)
- There was no half-debt inside missions
- There was no defiance (1.0 or 2.0) or any other inherent for blasters. If I got held, I'd better hope I had breakfrees.
- We didn't have Inventions. We had SOs that needed replacing every few levels. There was no other option.
- Zookeeper needed - what was it, 100,000 monkeys, and other badges were much harder to get.
So, I had to work harder at getting that 50 and had more stacked against me than anyone now ever will.
P.S.: If I could go back in time and negate any one of those items in your list, I'd put debt back to starting at level 5, as that's the level at which the character is ready to "leave the nest" of Atlas/Galaxy/Mercy and start heading out into the real, unsafe world. But I know that'll never happen, so you won't see any "start debt at level 5" threads from me. (Heck, I'm surprised they even have debt anymore.) -
Quote:Do you really think that the devs don't have a clue how to prioritize their work? Because, really, it seems like you're shaking in your boots over the possibility that the devs might actually think this suggestion is more important to work on than the other fixes, improvements, and nice-to-haves they've already got on their plate, and I tend to think they're not that into making bad judgment calls like that. Honestly, if a thread like this is going to have that kind of power, then maybe the people who want all those other things need to be crying louder about them on the forum -- squeaky wheel gets the grease, and all....Originally Posted by Rodion
...do you really understand that your request is just one of thousands of requests to set various options in the game?
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Quote:Mainly because Patrol XP is an add-on rather than a correction. With regard to smoothing, the devs looked at the curve and said, "Something's wrong," and they fixed it. But with regard to Patrol XP, there's nothing being fixed -- this is a nice-to-have, like a Day Job or the Invention System or Color and Weapon and Power Customizations and PVP and Mission Architect and all other sorts of things...except you can opt out of ALL of those extra things, and you can't opt out of Patrol XP.Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Why, if patrol XP makes you feel like you don't "earn" the character, should the current, XP-smoothed, debt-doesn't-matter not be bothering you? You should be petitioning for *that* to be reverted so we have to work through debt like we used to.
I wasn't aware of the ten-bubble cap on Patrol XP. Thanks to everyone who pointed that out. I'm glad that's there. I thought Patrol XP just went on accumulating forever.Quote:Also, your XP reference is wrong. If I play from (say) level 25-28 in a day (which is doable,) and I'm on full patrol XP, that is only affecting level 25-26 (assuming a start from just-hitting 25.) It doesn't affect level 26, 27, or 28.
And if you're not, it's a bigger blip...maybe even a blot, or a swatch, or something -- gosh -- downright noticable!Quote:Also, if I'm playing that character daily or every other day, it's barely making a blip on the XP radar.
The 100 pushup difference is what enabled you to qualify; what you did after you qualified is something else entirely. Think of it this way: Used to be, valedictorian meant that you had the highest grade point average in your entire class. Now some schools give out the title to any senior who carries an A average. There have been classes with literally dozens of valedictorians. Result? Not as much prestige with the title. The fact that some of these not-first-place valedictorians will go on to surpass in success their truly-first-place valedictorian peers doesn't mean the accomplishment of being valedictorian hasn't lost its luster.Quote:...you go in, do your 400 pushups. You're then assigned to your unit, deployed, brought under fire, complete multiple missions, save lives, take others, get shot, serve for many years - yeah, 100 pushups make SUCH a difference. -
Quote:I just feel like the guy they let into the Navy SEALs after they dropped the minimum pushups requirement from 500 to 400 -- sure, I'm a SEAL, and I get to wear the uniform and all, but does it really mean what it used to mean? Do I really measure up to the SEALs who came before me? (Not a real-world example regarding the SEALs, by the way -- I just made that up to get the point across.)Originally Posted by MunkiLord
Insults your pride? Really? You're too sensitive.
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Quote:I don't mind outleveling the content in a given area provided I outlevel it according to the effort I put into the game, not according to the lack of effort I put into the game. Patrol XP basically gives you the ability to acquire a desired amount of XP for only 2/3 of the work that normally would be required. That's XP welfare, and I don't want any part of it.Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
If you do not want to out level the content for any given level, which you will if you do not turn off xp, then turn off xp.
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Quote:Say it takes a million XP to get to level 50. Which would make you more proud of yourself: earning a million XP through gameplay, or earning 666,666XP through gameplay and being given 333,333XP for not playing? Getting the same reward for doing only 2/3 of the work just feels wrong -- it's like I benefit more from not working, when it should be the other way around.Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
You *still* have to actually play the character, so you'll have to excuse me if I don't "get" the whole "feeling like I didn't really earn the levels to 50" sentiment.
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Right under "No XP" in the Options screen, I would like to see another option that says "No Patrol XP".
The default setting for "No Patrol XP" would be "Disabled" so as not to impact anyone's gameplay without their consent.
The function of "No Patrol XP" being enabled would be to run a command upon a character's login that says, "Set this character's Patrol XP = 0."
The desired impact is that there would be no artificial XP acceleration for my character based on time spent not playing the character.
I have three primary objections to Patrol XP that fuel my desire for this new option:
A) Patrol XP feels like welfare. It's a welfare check the devs give you for doing nothing. As such, it insults my pride that, should I actually ever get a character to level 50, I won't be able to say that I did so entirely under my own power, but rather partly because I got unwanted boosts based on how much I schlepped off. No thanks, I'd really rather do it on my own. (I do not object to Day Jobs because a Day Job is a reward for logging off in a particular location, so you actually have to proactively do something to get the reward. Additionally, Day Jobs do not affect XP except for the one that mitigates XP debt.)
B) I object to the notion that my character is out in the game world fighting crime without me. When it comes to Day Jobs, I'm not interested in reading library books at the univeristy or in the Midnighter Club along with my character, or studying the map at the train station to find the quickest routes, or learning economics at the bank, etc. But I am interesting in fighting/perpetrating crime, and the thought that my character is out there patrolling the streets and stopping/committing crimes without me makes me feel unnecessary -- like my character needs me just so he can gain XP, but other than that, there's no need for me to be around for him to fight/commit crime. I thought the whole idea of CoH/CoV was "YOU are the Hero/Villain"? Apparently not. Apparently your character exists independently of you, and you're just a ride-along so's he can level up now and then. Bummer.
C) XP acceleration can cause my character to level more quickly than I desire. While I understand that the "No XP" option has been provided on this account, I do not generally object to rapid levelling as a result of my own actions in the game. I do, however, object to rapid levelling resulting from a decision by the devs to benevolently bestow upon me a benefit that I simply do not want and have been given no option to reject. (Before anyone asks, no, I don't object to Inherent Fitness -- I presume that the devs' datamining justifies their having made the change. I can imagine that a player theoretically could gripe about the mandatory enhanced speed and jump height, but sometimes, yes, that is just the way it goes. But I don't think that's the case here.)
I got fairly well blasted when I starting positing this option in a Player Questions thread (asking, naturally, "How do I shut off Patrol XP?") so I expect some negative responses here, too. All I ask is that you please don't waste your time or mine saying:
1) "The devs shouldn't do this because they have better things to do." Of course they have better things to do, and I have a laundry list of "better things" I'd like to see them do, but if this new option is something they do decide they can fit in, it's something I'd like to see.
2) "You already have 'No XP'." Thank you, I realize that, but my desire is to shut off accelerated XP earning, not all XP earning. I want to earn XP the way I was intended to earn it -- by fighting for it, not by sitting on my butt watching Netflix and eating starchy foods.
3) "If you don't want Patrol XP, get your character killed a few times and then it's gone." If you can't see the difference between an aggravating workaround and an actual solution, I can't help you.
4) "Use the 'No XP' option every third mission." Please see #3.
So, please, if you have an objection to a "No Patrol XP" option, please try to give a better reason than one of these. But do feel free to state whether or not it's something that you yourself might actually use. I'm curious to know what the overall sentiment is. -
Quote:I was actually thinking about using a Tanker. I wanted to do a lot of teaming, and I figured that this way I'd never have to worry about not having a tank on the team.Originally Posted by SerialBeggar
I hope you're doing this "completist" run with a high damage character.
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Quote:Yeah, but at least you've done it that way. Once I've done it that way, maybe I'll feel the same. But I'd like the opportunity at least.Originally Posted by Snow Globe
I think it is because I've done it that way. It isn't all that special.
No, I'm just saying that if for some reason the devs couldn't remove XP debt-clearing along with XP acceleration, I'd be okay with that.Quote:Isn't that like saying you want speed boost's recharge bonus but without +runspeed?
My understanding of XP smoothing was that the devs datamined and discovered that there was a significant slowdown in levelling speed in certain level ranges, and they smoothed the XP to make the levelling speed more consistent. I see that as fixing a problem, not granting a bonus.Quote:Should we also return to the XP reward tables from before XP smoothing? They are both developer bonuses to speed up levelling. -
Let's say I wanted to play, using one character, all the content in CoH. I notice that there's this handy "No XP" option sitting there. So what would be the best way for me to utilize this option so that I don't outlevel any content anywhere in the game (except for the content I simply can't access because of my origin, morality, etc.)?
For example, should I level up to 4, then switch on "No XP" and play all the available content I can, then turn off "No XP" and level up to 9, rinse, repeat? Are those the right levels at which to do the cutoffs? Or is there an altogether better way to use "No XP"? -
Quote:Wow, I'm starting to think you are trolling, because this really isn't brain surgery: I want to get to level 50 under my own steam, without artificial accelerants. I want to know that when the bell goes "DING-DING-DING! CONGRATS YOU'RE LEVEL 50!" that I got there by my own efforts and not because I got a boost for being lazy about playing my character. I want to be rewarded for my diligence, not my sloth. Is that so hard to understand?Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Or just ignore the extra XP. It isn't hurting anything. It is beginning to sound like you don't want to get to level 50 under any circumstances.
You may be right. I'm just saying that I want such a toggle to exist because its current state of non-existence makes puppies cry. I'm not saying the devs will agree with me, nor am I arguing that they should put this mod at the top of their list and ignore more important issues like whether you can finally have the argyle socks you've always wanted. This is just something I'd like to see in the game. Why you have to take a dump all over it is beyond me. It's like you have nothing better to do than stump for your argyle socks.Quote:I would hazard a guess that far less than 1% of players would actually use the toggle you have suggested.
Then you would be among the 99% who never use it. I don't see the merit in shoulder-kitties and will likely never have a shoulder-kitty, but I respect your desire for shoulder-kitties and would never argue that characters' shoulders should be kitty-free.Quote:That is my problem, I don't think there is any merit in having a turn off patrol xp option.
"Poorly defined?" Here you go: "absent any XP acceleration bonus granted by Patrol XP." (I refer to "XP acceleration bonus" specifically because I'd be okay with the XP debt-cancelling function of Patrol XP if for some reason that function couldn't be shut off.)Quote:From what I can see, you think the merits of the suggestion is that you can level at a poorly defined "normal" levelling rate.
And I respect your consideration, and I would therefore request that the toggle that shuts off Patrol XP would default to "Patrol XP Enabled" so as not to trouble your gameplay in the slightest.Quote:I consider Patrol XP a part of the normal levelling rate.
Wow...you and I do agree on something...wow....Quote:Actually I can safely say that I would never use it, even if it were made. Just like the Party Pack. -
Quote:It's ridiculous compared to "Set the 'No Patrol XP' toggle to Enabled and never worry about it again."Originally Posted by MentalMaden
Turning off earn XP for 1/3 of your time is hardly "jumping through ridiculous hoops".
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Quote:That's because we're having a conversation. If you don't want to be bothered by our conversation, there's a neat little toggle called "Unsubscribe." (Isn't it nice to have options?) As for me, I prefer to get the current conversation over and done with before moving on to the S-and-I area, because I've heard some interesting points raised here, so before I make a suggestion, I want to make sure I've heard all the views that people care to post here so that I can make a more informed suggestion.Originally Posted by Snow Globe
And I see that you still haven't made any posts in the Suggestions and Ideas area on this subject.
Forcing me to go out of my way to kill my character is not a satisfactory workaround. If I log off in Atlas in front of my next mission, then when I log back on I don't want to have to first travel to Founder's Falls to burn off Patrol XP. That's a waste of my time. (And what fun is it to roleplay Kenny from South Park every time you log on?)Quote:You asked if there was an option to turn it off. There is: Turn off ALL XP or allow your character to get defeated enough to burn off the Patrol XP.
My bad. I'm thinking of the Ctrl-click that causes a power to reactivate once it has recharged (e.g., Hasten). Apparently that setting does get saved somewhere, because I've never had to re-Ctrl-click Hasten after logging off and on.Quote:They are not. I can't toggle Hide on a stalker, turn the game completely off, then come back to the character being in hide still.
Or the devs could provide a toggle that lets us shut off Patrol XP. A player shouldn't have to jump through ridiculous hoops to accomplish what a simple new toggle or button will accomplish. Basically, Patrol XP is a scenario in which you're telling me, "Why should the devs have to provide you with a click path to delete enhancements you don't want? You can already give them to another player, or sell them on the market, or put them in your dual build you don't use, or put them in a slot you're going to put another enhancement in so it gets wiped out, or respec it away, etc." Yes, you can do any or all of those things, but you shouldn't have to.Quote:Turn off XP if you don't want to outlevel content. Make a level pact with another character that doesn't get used.
That is exactly right. I have been given a gift that negatively impacts my enjoyment of the game, and I do resent that.Quote:Again, you are complaining about being given a gift. You are coming across as ungrateful and resenting that gift.
I realize you are concerned that any option that is trivial to you that, heaven forbid, the devs actually choose to work on runs a real chance of taking time away from their working on things you want to see put in the game, but be reasonable -- the devs know how to prioritize, and if there are bigger priorities, they will address those bigger priorities first. Heaven knows I could have cared less about color customization on powers, but I never -- not once -- posted that it shouldn't happen just because there were other things I wanted to see done in the game. The game is not all about me -- and it's not all about you, either. All I'm doing is saying, "This is what I want to see in the game." If you don't agree that what I want should be in the game, then argue it based on the merit of the idea itself, not based on whether it's something you would never use or that it would take time away from something you want the devs to work on. Because who knows? One day they might actually provide a "No Patrol XP" toggle, and you'll be using it and thinking, "Man, this is so easy! Why did I ever argue over this!"
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Quote:I always tend to log out in day job areas, and I always get Patrol XP.Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
You know, I always thought you only earned Patrol XP if you logged out somewhere where you were not earning a normal XP badge. You know, out on patrol. I've been intentionally logging out in the middle of the street for characters that I wanted to earn Patrol XP for.
I thing it might be easy enough to make it work that way. Although players might consider that a nerf.
I would rather the devs implement a toggle so as not to nerf other players who want both -- and likewise the toggle shouldn't impact credit toward Day Jobs! -
Quote:I would feel much better about this "encouragement" if there were a way to turn it off. I mean, seriously, it's not like I didn't see Patrol XP at first and think, "OOO WOW THIS ROXXORS!" but now that I've actually had time to evaluate it, I seriously don't like it, and I'd like a way to shut it off because I find it discouraging rather than encouraging. I resent being rewarded for not playing. It's as simple as that. And if I resent the game for giving me unearned rewards, then I'm going to be less inclined to play it, and so I'll get more unearned rewards, which will make me more resentful, and the resulting death spiral will "encourage" me to cancel my subscription.Originally Posted by ThugOne
So the goal is to encourage people to stop and roll more alts while their first are still leveling, rather than playing one at a time to 50. IE, they want to you switch frequently. And it is just that, an encouragement, rather than a hard rule.
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Quote:QFT:Originally Posted by MentalMaden
You have the ability to throttle your xp in shutting it off. Why not just use that?
Back to you:Quote:To everybody else; the REASON that it would be nice to turn off Patrol XP without turning off Earning XP, is because there is a satisfaction in seeing one's progress based on some established "norm" or benchmark.
Enhancement drops, recipe drops, influence drops, and merit drops all have one thing in common -- you have ways to utterly ignore them. Don't want the enhancement or recipe? Delete it. Don't want the influence or merits? Don't spend them. But Patrol XP is different. You can turn off XP earning altogether, but the moment you turn XP earning back on, there's Patrol XP fudging your XP earning rate again. So basically what I'd like is either a toggle to shut off earning patrol XP (just like we have a toggle to shut off earning XP altogether), or a way to click a button and clear patrol XP after we've earned it (just like we have click paths to delete enhancements, inspirations, recipes, salvage, etc.).Quote:Because if this is implemented then someone may come around and want to turn off enhancement drops or recipe drops or influence drops or merit drops, etc etc.
Give me a break. CoH went 13 issues before implementing Patrol XP, if I recall correctly. It isn't Patrol XP that keeps casual players playing the game. And if it is, it certainly shouldn't be -- the game is what should be keeping casual players playing, not the reward you get for not playing it.Quote:The purpose of patrol xp is to allow the casual player the ability to not feel lost so much and to encourage playing alts to stave off burnout. Because keeping the casual player happy and keeping as many people around is the goal here of the developers. Players with personal individual playstyles and needs aren't the "norm" player that is needed to keep the servers we love so much turned on.
I would agree with this, and I don't have a problem with the devs coming along and establishing, like you say, a new "norm". But Patrol XP isn't a norm or a smoothing but rather a situational forced acceleration of XP earning that some players like myself simply do not want. Like I've said before, it's a handout, and I don't want a handout. I want to earn the XP and feel like when I get to 50, I've put in the time and earned my way to the top. For everyone else who's already got a 50 and doesn't have that need for personal satisfaction, they can leave Patrol XP enabled.Quote:(I'd also argue that it was xp smoothing that made the biggest difference in feel of leveling speed. But that is just more gut feeling than actual hard numbers.)
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Quote:So is earning XP, but they gave us an option to shut that off.Originally Posted by MentalMaden
Patrol XP is the norm though.
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Quote:Finally, someone who understands!Originally Posted by Captain_Spith
To everybody else; the REASON that it would be nice to turn off Patrol XP without turning off Earning XP, is because there is a satisfaction in seeing one's progress based on some established "norm" or benchmark.
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Quote:Sneaky devils!!!Originally Posted by ThugOne
Not quite. The goal is to encourage players to play *multiple* characters. This game encourages as many alternate characters as possible. So when one runs out of Patrol Exp, it's time to log it off and switch to another. If you insist on playing the same character all the time, then the game will let you. But there's an XP penalty.
But seriously, why should the devs care about my play style so long as I'm playing? I prefer to stick with one character for as long as possible...mainly because once I switch over to a new character, I tend to give up on the old character. To this day I don't have a level 50 -- level 45 is the highest I've ever made it.
Sadly, right now I've got a level 1 Tanker sitting in the CoH tutorial waiting for Issue 19 to come out so I can reap the benefits of the new Inherent Fitness Pool, so he's racking up Patrol XP as we speak. What I'll probably do is delete the poor guy and recreate him in the tutorial once Issue 19 hits so that his Patrol XP will be at 0. Then I'll play him up to 50 as it suits me, and I'll see just how much influence Patrol XP has on his progression. Who knows -- maybe what's bugging me is the fact that I've got so many characters who have been logged off for hundreds of days, so whenever I log back into one of them, I spend the first week zooming through levels and then...blah, normal XP rate. I'd rather not have the acceleration at all.
And the thought that my character is out on patrol fighting crime without me irritates me, too -- I'm supposed to feel important with all this superheroing, right? Not like an add-on. My character is supposed to be ME. He's not supposed to be an independent entity who's out there fighting crime all on his lonesome and only needs me to come along so he can level up. I don't mind the Day Job concept because I don't really want to be around while my character practices medicine or reads books in the library, but I do want to be there when my character is fighting crime! Otherwise I'm just a tagalong, not a hero -- it's almost like my own hero is inviting me to join him on radio missions so he can farm XP...sheesh.... -
Quote:Agreed, and I'm sure that there are plenty of options that most players never use. I could list a few dozen options that I've never once changed from the defaults. Nevertheless, those options exist either because players requested them or because the devs thought they would be nice to have. "No Patrol XP" is simply an option I'm requesting...because for me, it would be nice to have.Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Not every option is a useful option to have.
And I know it's bad form to say things like this, but how hard is it to code, "Upon character logon, check the 'No Patrol XP' flag, and if it's set to 'Yes', set Patrol XP = 0"? Obviously there's some logic already going on upon character logon, or else how would our toggles be autostarted, day job badges be awarded, etc? The only thing I'm not sure of is whether Patrol XP clears debt while the character is offline or just when the character logs on, but if all I could get out of a "No Patrol XP" option was to switch off the XP acceleration function and not the XP debt clearance function, I'd be okay with that -- the idea that the character, ashamed of his poor performance, has been training extra hard offline so as to bring his skills back up to par makes sense to me.
Nice try, but the earmark itself was earned through inactivity. (I'd love to see a sandwich shop say, "Don't buy anything from us for 6 months, and we'll give you a coupon to buy-one-get-one-free!" That just doesn't happen.)Quote:If you never gain experience (by killing a level-appropriate enemy, completing a mission, or walking over an exploration badge), Patrol XP sits there, looking lonely. You must accomplish something in order to be rewarded with the bonus experience which has only until then been earmarked for you.
Which is part of the reason I dislike Patrol XP so much. It actually encourages players not to play their characters. I've actually had moments when I realized, "Hmph. All my Patrol XP is gone. Well, this sucks. Might as well go watch TV." To be rewarded for not playing is almost the same as being penalized for playing "too long." What game in its right mind does that? It isn't in CoH's best interests that you should have a life!Quote:From another angle, Patrol XP is "normal" XP. After playing "too long", as determined by how long you haven't been playing, you are penalized 33% of your normal XP, to encourage you to do other things with your time than to sit and play games all day. -
Wow, good to know. I figured they'd at least deactivate the arcs. (I wonder how much deadwood they could clear from MA if they delisted stories from inactive accounts.)
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What happens to a player's published arcs if his/her subscription expires? Are they still playable in CoH while his/her account is inactive? If a player signs back up, will his/her published arcs still be out there, reactivated?
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Okay, this is a good point: In addition to its accelerated XP-earning function, Patrol XP has the additional function of clearing XP debt. Since the "No XP" option doesn't stop a player from accumulating XP debt, there might be players who will want to keep the "No XP" option as is so that even though they won't be earning XP, they can still have their XP debt cleared gradually during their downtime.
Bottom line: The "No XP" option should continue to function as it does; "No Patrol XP" would have to be a separate option.
Using my amazing powers of 20/20 hindsight, I kind of wish the devs had given us a choice between either earning towards a Day Job or racking up Patrol XP. After all, a character isn't going to be doing a Day Job and patrolling at the same time, right? Or at the very least the character would only get half the normal Patrol XP. -
Quote:K, since we're in agreement on that much, I'll kick this over to the Suggestions area. Thanks!Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Well I have to admit then that I feel that when you turn off XP it should include turning off Patrol XP. To me it doesn't make sense that we still earn patrol xp when we are set our toggles to block off all XP gain.