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It's all very nice but a Regen Tanker has to be able to tank without the need for powerpools or a specific type of defender in team.
Take any secondary and a Regen should find adequate usefulness.
Bad enough in 2005 when Invulns were expected to have fight pool, like fight pool was part of the set, as if it was inconceivable to tank without it and all that was expected of them was to take an alpha basically before the fire controller aoe immobed the room so everything was equispaced by 10ft so an Invuln could only get 4 in its aura. A possibly completely defenseless, low resisting Regen is not gonna live up to the same expectations without the right support. -
Quote:TL;DRI think you're drastically underestimating the survivability of a well-played regen.
If it were as bad as you say, why do the people who know the numbers inside and out still like the set, seeing as how you're basically saying the only thing it's good at is dying?
If a Regen scrapper can pull off a double RWZ Challenge, then I think a well played Regen tank will be just fine.
If you're not familiar with what an RWZ Challenge is: You go into RWZ, find a spawn of level 54 Rikti that includes a minimum of 3 bosses and engage it, without losing agro at any time, and with no inspirations or temp powers. The spawns are usually 10-12 enemies, and always contain at least one level 54 Mesmerist. Now double that to 20 enemies, with 6 bosses.
That was done with a Claws/Regen scrapper. If a scrapper can pull something like that off with Regen, what would a tank be able to do with 1,000 more HP and similar ability to leverage KD for mitigation? (Because a character's survivability includes BOTH sets, not just one)
So, if you're convinced that the only thing Regen is any good at is dying, well......you're wrong.
My own personal Regen scrapper has outlived just about any powerset you can think of in his 6 year career at various times. I've outlived Invulns and Stone tanks. I've outlived SRs. I've outlived Katana/Willpowers.
How did I do that? Because I have a clue what I;m doing with the set and don't expect my secondary to sit there and passively do everything for me. If you play a Regen like a Willpower, of course it's going to die. Play your Regen like a REGEN and you'd be very surprised at some of the things you can pull off.
lol I am joking.
I think Wintry is correct in saying about context.
We all have expectations of a Tanker, on SOs. Any plonk can be buffed to tank mage, blasters can etc. But you have to consider with next to no def leveling up that you are going to be the main target, every attack, every debuff. Some people don't rate defense sets at all because they dont have resists, and regen is all about reacting and putting health back, not the best thing, but ya know the secondary for tankers can make a difference. Knockout blow has made a difference in my tanks 40s, shockwave has made a difference on my Claws/SR scrapper. My claws/sr tanked the entirety of an STF for nobody else but Scrappers, first try, almost Mo'd it. Yonks ago before the trick of standing on the ledge taunting Lord Recluse became known let alone popular. Don't think I don't know what scrappers can do for a team without a single buffer or a debuffer about. I can not care which tank I am on when I can not care which scrapper I am on. Leveling up, against every different kind of faction a Regen Tanker is going to hope to survive the first few secs at times and then maybe hope that all the debuffs don't get him down. I think they made willpower because Regen leveling up just wouldn't do things as well.
Some players can bring out the best in sets just as some can bring out the worst. On average with the average expectation of a Tanker and this can differ depending on whether you pug or not and so on but I see a lot of planting.
Edit: FWIW as someone with a 50 Regen Scrapper and a 50 SR Scrapper, SR is definitely a better choice to port to tanks. -
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Oh okay my bad XD
It was 5:40 am to me when I looked at it so I came back to look at it again to compare the builds properly, took me a moment to realize your against all odds was scaled for 10 and you had vengeance on increasing your DPS beyond mine.
AAO set the same and no Vengeance (which would be off most the time with you?) The DPS of mine is slightly higher, but really that will stand out more when you use aoes because the little extra dps of hitting one target is times by the maximum number of targets.
I realise also that despite that some of the new slotting wasn't thorough enough and I didn't frankenstein slot 2 aoes the same way so I have revised the suggestion to suit that.
In PvE you can get a temp travel power so np there aye.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Alakur: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Battle Axe
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(3), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(9), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), RedFtn-EndRdx(34), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 1: Beheader -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(3), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(9), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), RedFtn-EndRdx(34), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 4: True Grit -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(5), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(11), Numna-Heal(46), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(46)
Level 6: Active Defense -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(7), HO:Membr(50)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 12: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(15), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(15), GA-3defTpProc(43)
Level 16: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 20: Swoop -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 22: Weave -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(23), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(23), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 28: Whirling Axe -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), FrcFbk-Rechg%(42)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(31), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(31), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 32: One with the Shield -- Aegis-Psi/Status(A)
Level 35: Cleave -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Pendulum -- C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(39), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(40), Acc-I(42)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Taunt -- Zinger-Acc/Rchg(A), Zinger-Taunt(45), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(46), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(50)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(48), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(48), P'Shift-End%(48)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), RgnTis-Regen+(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(34), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(45), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(45)
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I put it in my builder and it came up with pvp settings? You pvp with it?
I'm not sure of all your intentions so bare with me, one can only guess and my suggestion is not necessarily the correct one because I am not in your shoes, but if I was in your shoes:
I thought it was a good build and would take me more than 5 mins to dig into given what I see as your intentions.
However if I pvped I'd have taunt, but saying that if you don't pvp team or the rest of the team are very much sufficient without quick saves from you then no worries.
I've team pvped before and we had eachothers backs constantly getting thru a match with no one defeated but the opposition would only have one person defeated. Played real tight knit, only one mistake and thats it, someones a gonna.
Between end rec and end drain I like a 2.5 eps window but you can use conserve energy quite often with that, without working things out you might get away with less. You don't have a travel power i the build making long distance saves a bit slow, especially without taunt.
Assault is good for taunt and placate resistance..I think Vengeance, I'd probably switch out for taunt or a travel power to shoot..
What I've done is I think I improved your endurance, put taunt in there for flexibility, improving your recharge. The only thing though is that the dam per end of each AoE has come down by a few points, but aoes aren't always economic in pvp but the rechg of them I think is quicker so overall more dps.
It's a little bit more rounded and no need to desire someone dead:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Alakur: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Battle Axe
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(3), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(9), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), RedFtn-EndRdx(34), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 1: Beheader -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(3), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(9), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), RedFtn-EndRdx(34), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 4: True Grit -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(5), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(11), Numna-Heal(46), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(46)
Level 6: Active Defense -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(7), HO:Membr(50)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 12: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(15), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(15), GA-3defTpProc(43)
Level 16: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 20: Swoop -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 22: Weave -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(23), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(23), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), FrcFbk-Rechg%(42)
Level 28: Whirling Axe -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(31), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(31), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 32: One with the Shield -- Aegis-Psi/Status(A)
Level 35: Cleave -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Pendulum -- C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(39), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(40), Acc-I(42)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Taunt -- Zinger-Acc/Rchg(A), Zinger-Taunt(45), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(46), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(50)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(48), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(48), P'Shift-End%(48)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), RgnTis-Regen+(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(34), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(45), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(45)
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You could try getting your granite beyond its penalties. Use the other toons to fund a faster build, rebuild the granite, do the incarnate stuff and overcome all penalties near as dammit!
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Seeing that I only got 36% def to all but psi after a respec my first thoughts are "Bleep! Where did I go wrong?", bloody thing catches me out.
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A lot of people get their S/L def up as its the most common dam type, truth is you could softcap to all but psi if you wanted to. Another thing is +HP not only does it serve against some heavy hits or a heavy attack chain but it will also improve regen as well.
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I think there was a Fire/Stone part 1 mate where ppl gave advice and from looking at his build he's possibly stayed the course of his own desire some.
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Quote:Have been planning to do it on my second Ninjitsu for years. When I mentioned I had planned on it a couple of years ago I had someone ask why - but it will be prolly be funny.I've done several Stalkers with Provoke. It works great!
It's especially handy on /Ninjitsu as you can take aggro (Provoke) and give away aggro (Smoke Bomb) at will. One of my favorite tricks is the Provoke and hide around a corner. The mob will chase you giving the team a good 5-6 seconds to wail on him while he is attacking -nothing- and running to catch you. -
How playable would a Dark Armour be if you had no Dark Regen?
Then remove CoF and OG (most do anyway).
Then remove Death Shroud?
Yet still have it costing as much in endurance, as if you had all that.
How playable?
Then how many other Primaries that tanks get can say that they can have almost half of their primary completely negated by one secondary effect in their 20s?
None I think, thats a balance issue. -
I knew someone who had both presence pool taunts on their blaster, so that they could tank AVs with it. I'd recommend both if you're building your blaster to do such things with it. I plan on trying it out on a Stalker sometime I just haven't, not a case of making one that can spare the slots, its a case of leveling it. Stalkers tend to get the backseat with me.
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This made me laugh as 9/10 the target will waste it. It does have some value depending on whether or not you can get a decent pet to stand next to.
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I've always seen Blasters as Ranged/Support. I have foregone my Blaps on my /NRG purely to do something different with it. The Power boost and Boost Range both can well affect aid other and aid self as well as vengeance. So now I do STFs with her and if the bleep hits the fan and someone falls, 45% defence all around including my manuevers. Then I res that person. The great thing with NRG is I can powerboost vengeance at something like level 30.
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Flurry doesn't do the DPA that Boxing does. If it did then it would do more damage. If it did do that much more damage then it should cost the right amount of endurance so that Boxing and Flurry had the same DPE. Then we have to take into account Flurry's higher chance to disorient, give it equal chance. Now Flurry would have the same DPA and DPE going for it that Boxing does except the good thing about using Flurry is that you can recover more end through powers like stamina over its longer cast time making it better than boxing in that sense but worse in the sense that your positionally fixed for a lengthier time. But atleast then they're somewhere equal.
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You go through the game, some enemies have a lot of defense and some tohit debuff you. Four of Dark Armours powers rely on tohit checks. If their not hitting then they're toggled on consuming end for no reason or Dark Regen gets used, missing completely and gazumps endurance in what could possibly be a long fight due to air whiffing. One of these powers is already low in acc.
Yes you could pop insps or you could have build up but not every DA will have that as an option until 26 or 28 let alone 20, and yes you could try breaking up spawns. Under the same exteme circumstances I've been through with every other tank cept Elec.
I remember Castle soloing in DA with his Firetank earning great xp/time not long before certain buffs came that made that, well we might differ on what is great xp/time easier to do. I remember what it was like to do that before the change and after the change. It would be better if I could compare a Fire/Fire with a Dark/Fire which'll both have build up but as it is I compare to Dark/Dark whose soul drain comes after 25, not available when needed but potentially libel to miss too. It was definitely harder with my Dark/Dark than it was for my Fire/Fire before Fiery Aura got its buffs based on the same slotting principles with SOs, not using powers I wouldn't have at the level range and to top that fitness wasn't inherent when I tested with Fire either.
In the same level range of 20-25 which I exemped to Tsoo and Warriors weren't an issue at all, but they weren't that bad for any of my other tankers. I laughed at Banished Pantheon pretty much with everything but Fire/ and now Dark/
Sure one can tank with Dark Armour but is it balanced. I am no longer convinced. Thats what I am saying. I think that asking for tohit debuff resistance is less of a buff than asking for more tohit or more acc because problems versus +def are still there. Its a subtle change in my mind to bridge a small but existing gap. -
I thought Willpower was introduced in part because Regen wouldn't work as well. Atleast with Brutes you don't have to be considered or play as a Tanker.
Having said that by transition through the Brute AT and then some changes anything can happen.
I probably wouldn't play it. MoG don't last long enough. Ideally I would cossie change into MoG and cossie change out of it. -
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Well if ya have 600 million to spend on one slot then ya should afford my suggestion.
As with all my suggestions there is always room for improvement. I have x amount of time and have to live with the constraint. -
You must have many alts, find out how she likes to play with them. Maybe she prefers to be upfront, fully buffed, rather than sat back shooting fish in a barrel.
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Quote:You are the one putting the words where they don't exist "with me"So you are of the opinion that dark armour is significantly underbalanced, and its unique position of being challenged differently by tohit debuffs than other armour sets is not as important as overcoming this significant inability to compete.
A developer only needs to read peoples suggestions, use what is within his/her own means to decide what is the right or wrong suggestion.
People can propose with whatever means they feel that are necessary, even if it is with their heart. You shouldn't be looking to claim a victory on the internet putting words where they don't exist for the sake of your ego with what is a unproven position from you because you can't back up what you say comfortably.
I am a mechanical engineer. I could excel the bleep out of the game far beyond any necessary means and show it but we all come here for fun. Leave all suggestions for a Dev to read. I've been asleep and now I will be gaming. I have a certain amount of trust in a Dev to come up with a decision based on their intel.
Edit: One other thing, determining balance through playing, taking notes and putting into excel takes months, not a couple of weeks, or 2 days. It'll take along time to reverse engineer properly. So if a thread has been about a couple of days and I haven't gone bosh with piles of information then take that as a normality. Four years ago I could of gone bosh but the game has changed and I didn't keep going with it. It's nerdier than anyone needs to be for something you don't get paid to do. -
Quote:So what you're saying is that Dark Armour should not have unique needs? That somehow having a challenge that nobody else has is something that needs to be 'fixed?'
I am not 100% certain about who this question is for, but if it was me saying that I would of come out and said it. Dark Armour has unique needs, no one said it shouldn't have. Res to tohit debuffs still leaves some tohit to be desired. A challenge can be found more ways than one. I look it at it as putting balance before challenge. Maybe thats fairer. Tohit debuffs can be avoided or overcome, but so can alot of other things. Regarding balance each powerset should have its fair share of self sustainability, that's what I am thinking here. I do think I think its conceptually right that a set should resist what it can bestow. Elecs drain end and then resist end drain. It'll still be taking some debuffing just not as much, leading to less wasted endurance for no heal over time.
I found versus Pantheon, that theyre pretty much just as easy no matter what set I play until I came to Fiery Aura, then Fiery Aura got buffed. Now with Dark Armour, Dark Armour has it slightly tougher, slightly tougher than Fiery Aura before it got buffed. It tells me that by 20 something is lacking. Much of Darks survivability relies on accuracy. One could pop insps but I like to feel the basic build, built on same slotting principles when trying to feel balance. Less wasted endurance through powers such as CoF, OG and DR missing the better for people leveling up. Not everyone will afford a well built toon at 50 and not everyone can make one anyway. -
Dark Regen relies on Acc. There is already so little Acc on CoF. OG relies on Acc.
60%+ resistance to -Tohit in Cloak of Darkness.
Something so that you don't blow your endurance away on Dark Regen without a heal as many times as you might do currently. CoF and OG won't necessarily be as much of the half hearted picks they are.
Failing that, then maybe fix the accuracy of those powers so that they can not be debuffed. -