New Dawn

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Jab isnt instant high damage, seeing to the instant high damage attacks would come first, over next 9 lvls it maybe worth adding damage slots to it, mine has 3.

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As it's a vital part of any attack chain, IMHO, has a chance to Disorient and you have to pick it up (and in most cases can spare the slots) I think it's worth at least slotting up for 1 Acc, 3 Dam.

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you have to pick it up? you made it sound like as tanks we get a choice! as for slots mine has 3 put in late though.

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I'm pretty much alone in this thinking it seems, many people neglect Jab for it's Minor Damage. I find it excellent for keeping up Punch-voke and the Damage racks up over Time.

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No not alone, obviously your not reading my post as i intended people too, when your endurance is dropping fast (sappers are not the only one) i dont suggest relying on jab for damage over time i suggest fast kills hence slot heavy hitters first.

Every single power in every tanker set has its day, only frozen aura eludes me in thought as i have never seen it and can only imagine frozen aura as a rarely unwasted used power if used by anyone at all perhaps meant for selective situations ie "5 secs to hibernate" people stop fighting ice/ice slaps frozen aura on.

Marauder is tough and i have to keep hitting him for long periods. With carnies its tank fast,kill fast, no problem really providing i have a team that lets me tank to suit me.

when i think of endurance i think of level 52 electrodes hitting me with charged bolts, when i think of damage overtime i think of smacking marauder, when i think of killing things asap i think of mother mayhem.

But having said that Firetanks are better equiped for praetorian electrodes, mesons and nuons and psionic AV's due to higher energy resist, additional offense and consume than my invuln, when my fire/fire makes 50 i may have a different set of ideas.

my bad, good spot on the accuracy enhancements on consume! as for unslotting any attack, if your attacks have become -recharged or you need those attacks in an attack chain then accuracy is nice to go against a possible complete waste of endurance and i always slot an endurance slot it means i can fight 33% longer than anyone without any endurance slots as i see some builds do without (i personally dont like to tire too easy and take more punches than i need too). The endurance bar can sometimes be the bar you need to worry about most and every attack used is a guantlet. Jiaozy's footstomp is like mine but with 9 lvls left and 3 power choices left what comes next is a matter of priorities, the build was upto lvl 41 to my priorities. Weave sadly doesnt do much for a firetank and i wonder if its worth the slots or endurance overtime (no i dont i dont think its worth it) combat jump is enough to resist immobilisation on its own afaik. As firetank i am more for killing things before they kill me not standing there taking hits for an extra 3 minutes by being less offensive. Jab isnt instant high damage, seeing to the instant high damage attacks would come first, over next 9 lvls it maybe worth adding damage slots to it, mine has 3.

If i made MA scrapper flurry would be one of the first powers i'd have, it would be a lifeboat to break up the monotony of all that kicking.

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Do you think the bad sides of provoke are made up by the access to fear powers then?

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in a way yes, but i wouldnt still wouldnt always rely on presence pools taunts to save team mates from certain debt, an autohit taunt would still be included in my build.

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a) Initiating fights. Taunt an enemy in the centre of a spawn and duck out of sight ( make sure the team is out of sight too ). The enemy comes running to you and they all stay in your Aura, so your team is safest and can use AoEs on all the enemy. This method is REALLY useful against ranged only enemies types, which are scattered liberally through the game. Also you avoid aggroing a 2nd group if you use this method, which can be really useful against enemies like Nemesis with their extremely long range and extremely long aggro range. Fighting battles on your terms rather than the enemies' terms is always a good idea. Slotting range in Taunt for this purpose helps, but isn't that necessary.

b) Controlling spilt Aggro.
You are fighting and for some reason you don't have aggro of the whole spawn, something went wrong and enemies are running round attacking the Blasters, Defenders and controllers or just shooting them at range. Target taunt on your allies when they look in trouble. Whilst ranged attackers won't close, melee enemies will and soon you will have everything under control. Recharge and taunt duration enhancements help here most.

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Sadly many people know this and STILL run in or a blaster decides to pull to create pointless mayhem, and there will always be scrankers with team members dying around them. I personally watch them die and.......sigh.

Presence pool taunts can miss when you least want them too especially if your accuracy is debuffed enough and requires endurance which is why if i was taking that road i'll have the auto hit taunt too.

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Slotted up a bit, you can fire off taunt and be sure that your targets will be stuck to you for a little while whilst you focus on other things. It's also useful for some AVs (like Infernal). His melee attack is AoE and I've see it do some nasty damage to scrappers. It's much better to keep him taunted at range so he throws a few fireballs at you and the rest of the team is free to crowd round him and bash at leisure. Same principle applies to a few others as well.

It's just generally handy really.

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yeah thats also where punchvokers really fail - "hello team wipe". Unkited Babbage does an aoe at the start and halfway, if he is kited there is no aoe. As much as i love scrappers with taunt this is where some maybe tempted to use it in melee and get people killed, if the tank is kiting dont taunt!

i find most AV's taunted at range are alot less damaging.

cant edit above post now but its 2 slots short so that would be 3 rec red on hasten, i do value my 2 life bars, the endurance bar and healthbar. When you have no resistance or defence to something, keeping your stamina up to kill fast and being able to heal as much as possible is of great value to me. I'm guessing your lvl 41 and your power choices work for you.

i played with your slots some for somit to do

Primary:
Fire Shield (3 Damage Resistance, 1 End Red)
Blazing Aura (3 Damage resistance, 1 End Red)
Healing Flames (3 Heals, 3 Recharge)
Consume (3 EndMod, 3 recharge)
Plasma Shield (3 Damage Resistance, 1 End Red)
RoTP (1 Recharge, jst got this 1)

Secondary:
Jab (1 End, 1 Acc)
haymaker (3 Dam, 1 End Red, 1 Acc)
Taunt (1 Taunt effectiveness 2 Recharge Red)
Knockout Blow (3 Dam, 1 Acc, 1 End Red, 1 Hold)

Fitness:
Hurdle (1 Jump)
Health (3 Heals)
Stamina (3 End Mod)

Super Speed:
Hasten (1 Recharge Red)
Super Speed (1 Speed Boost)


Leaping:
Combat Jumping (1 Defense Buffs)
Superjump (1 End Red)
Acrobatics (1 end Red)

Fighting:
Kick (1 Acc, 1 end)
Tough (3 dam resistance, 3 End Red)
Weave (3 Defense Buffs, 3 End red)


I am currently somewhat guessing at my choice of slotting here (with not having fire and ss together) and i think i would definately remove weave for 1 more slot elsewhere in order to be more offensive and get footstomp and slot it like haymaker.

taunt is as anti ambush power as well as instantly saving the team mate(s) from debt, i'd take presence pool and autohit. My attitude is this if the team is dead you could soon be too so better to autohit. Add to that people who know good tanks dont team with poor aggro managers. Punchvoke uses end what do you do if you are low on it?

i like what what coffee has said especially about gallavanting around with needless toggles off, thats knowledge and thats confidence but i have to say i love hurl, as my invuln/ss tank i dont fly,jump or tp and if something in a pvp zone was smacking me from above i need to throw a heavy brick at it that brings it down so i can smack it some with all of my attacks. I do pvp with my tanker and thats where hurl has played a big part. However if you are within the action time of it and get AS from a stalker capping his damage through inspirations your reflexes to dull pain wont matter. But thats the thing with this game, you cant have everything.

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although Invincibility grabs aggro, DOES IT BREAK A SLEEP OR FEAR?

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Fear wont break im sure my mate finds it useful on her invuln, as for sleep anything that gets slept around a tanker is usually woken up through damage so ill never know it also brought me to my past question on whether frozen aura is a worthwhile power to have as i have never seen anyone with it.

In a way invulns are safe till level 18 for not getting too much aggro, being a high aggro obtaining low level tanker on pick up teams can be well dangerous as some have said you may find yourself not tanking to suit your build but be found getting more than you bargained for because of what someone else started. I'm easy about it upto lvl 10 before debt comes in, its a time for trial and error and there is no debt involved. If a blaster pulls for me i'll let him tank, he dies has a nice long trip back from the hospital and repeats all mistakes. People that allow me to flyby taunt (well i try) wait for bunch up, land a second taunt and then say ready so they can multihit like mad i like but they may quit at the end through boredom...oh well.
At no point have i said i have tanked without a defensive set on the team i will add and there is not many points in the game i would be without one.

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allow me to fight the enemy on my terms

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amen to that

My ice tank at lower levels is my best one i thought it was great, such a super tank straight out of the cradle so to speak wet ice is beautiful to have at lvl 6 it means i dont have to worry about knockbacks to slow me down in what i have to do.

Rebuilt shannon on defiant so far lvl 6 no taunt as yet cos its lvl 10, so far no difficulties damage is somewhat shared more, couldnt throw a taunt to save a mate from faceplant, having to face two groups at ambush points instead of pulling them apart which is more dangerous. So far with shannon II i have been lucky to have teamplayers who let the tanks take point. Recovery situations would really suck. Not having taunt below level 10 simply puts my tank at next to no risk compared to others and thats with tab smack tab smack, its quite boring really.

Started as a lvl 2 in a team of lvl 4's i couldnt be sk'd but i was completely safe as i couldnt actually hit a lvl 6 to get aggro most of the time. So far i have found just the firetank and stonetank have been both quite a challenge to hold up pre 10 with taunt due to what maybe the powers they get, how they work and my possible mistakes in slotting. Maybe its me thats a bit slow with the builds.

Getting haymaker earlier as opposed to taunt just means that you can level a tinsy bit faster between 0-10 (any hospital trips can counter this). Haymaker early is much better for you pvp too. No one had to take taunt at 4 and there is no debt but if anyone was to say taunt gets you killed cos you are too squishy thats an absolute nonsense. Its your power choices, slotting, how your team plays and the decisions you make that get you killed.

Either way i'd be happy as there is still a chance for some tanks to have taunt to make positron and cavern trial easier because thats where it can really start to shine.

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that makes sense, it's far more effective if you can get into the mobs nice and fast (go go TP Stone Tank!!) and grab the initial aggro with the 'Pots.

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My stonetanker concept is to tp stone onto herself as opposed turning into stone this is because tp self is quite a good idea for getting a rooted tanker about and getting places faster.

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Im a Tanker n00b, but with taking Taunt so late in the 2 last builds inthis thread (24 and 30 i think it was) and the first Aura Inv gets at 18, surely u wont b able to hold aggro until then? and even then only when theyr close. Am i missing something?
Looking to learn becuase iv rolled an Inv/SS too, he's only an ickle lvl 14 though.
Thanks

Shnyet AWAY

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I get taunt at lvl 4 and put my tankers on the line for the rest of the team, the team kicks bleep and mostly they dont get hardly hit at all and keep passing me all the inspirations i need as they dont need them (I am talking about teams that know "when" to attack). This is good practise for later on for things you have little or no resistance too. Also you dont get debt till lvl10 so its a very good time to practise. Its often said its best to get taunt after mezz protection and i can see the point but i have alot more fun somehow surviving the worst of things. i think its better for the team if anyone with healing capability only has to focus on you as a tanker (partially why i prefer not to have other tanks on team), if you dont get all the aggro the healing has to be dished out all round and then you as a tanker may not get healed as and when you need it.

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You can't get taunt at lvl 4 anymore, hehehe, check the release notes of last patch..

Personally my build has taunt at lvl 16 currently. I realized there is no need of it much earlier cause tanks are about as weak as wet paperbags before you get SO enhancements. Attempts of holding aggro would just lead to death.

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1) i know about those notes check what i wrote i said i get taunt at level 4 which i did on my stone, fire and ice. Invuln was my first and taunt was my first power after mezz protection.
2) tanks dont have to be as weak as wet paper bags at any level and can be played as a tank from day 1. I know this.
3) attempts of holding aggro doesnt have to lead to death at all with the right gameplay at anypoint in the game against anything but not of any level. I am dead certain of this.
4) achievements of points 2 and 3 is a sign of a good team not simply a good tanker.

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Im a Tanker n00b, but with taking Taunt so late in the 2 last builds inthis thread (24 and 30 i think it was) and the first Aura Inv gets at 18, surely u wont b able to hold aggro until then? and even then only when theyr close. Am i missing something?
Looking to learn becuase iv rolled an Inv/SS too, he's only an ickle lvl 14 though.
Thanks

Shnyet AWAY

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I get taunt at lvl 4 and put my tankers on the line for the rest of the team, the team kicks bleep and mostly they dont get hardly hit at all and keep passing me all the inspirations i need as they dont need them (I am talking about teams that know "when" to attack). This is good practise for later on for things you have little or no resistance too. Also you dont get debt till lvl10 so its a very good time to practise. Its often said its best to get taunt after mezz protection and i can see the point but i have alot more fun somehow surviving the worst of things. i think its better for the team if anyone with healing capability only has to focus on you as a tanker (partially why i prefer not to have other tanks on team), if you dont get all the aggro the healing has to be dished out all round and then you as a tanker may not get healed as and when you need it.

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test servers are only really good if you can bring a team with you and face every enemy. i believe that best way to slot is from experience of levelling up "omg i nearly died there why was that? what do i need? i am a lvl 4 tanker and i cant keep aggro of people ("My Job").....i must need more recharges in taunt! Tankers imo should be the most likely to die first without ever often dying.

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Well I consider test server to be better than nothing, ie. respeccing the build and being sorry afterwards. Besides, its possible to test things like accuracy and endurance consumption pretty much solo.

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i personally would of thought people would know their priorities from levelling up if you had more than 3 of something you then made it 3 for ED, all toggles ideally need to be brought to about 0.23 in cost (if less like invincible why bother?) especially if you have many toggles. Whilst attacking you want to go through as little endurance as viable so as not to drop toggles. I personally wont ever use rage for accuracy there is enough in itself and from invincible, i keep accuracy in attacks also as i like to be helpful as a tank at any level, the end drop of rage is a big risk especially if your attacks take full end cost. If i did a couple of hits and had to rest midfight thats not adding to my survivability thats drawing out how much time i get hit for.
In most cases teams can flatten groups pretty quickly for you especially as you herd so that the team can capitalise on the multihit effect of their powers and so that any toon with healing ability only has your healthbar to worry about.
I can imagine the last build suggested easily and the thought of tiring quicker than i do would be a nightmare. With endreduxs in all my attacks i can attack chain pretty much constantly between everytime conserve energy kicks in. But facing a lvl 52 neuron mission my endurance drops fast enough as it is that i just about keep my toggles on with fighting at times, such low endurance would definately faceplant me. I know you can look to the team for buffs etc but i like my builds as independent as i can make them.
Captain_Solaris mate apart from lack of end costs, 3 res so's on unstoppable and 3 tohits on rage i actually think your "current" build is closer to the truth of what you need, its what your used too, you levelled up with it so it must say something. A mere test on test server can be meaningless compared to experience.

test servers are only really good if you can bring a team with you and face every enemy. i believe that best way to slot is from experience of levelling up "omg i nearly died there why was that? what do i need? i am a lvl 4 tanker and i cant keep aggro of people ("My Job").....i must need more recharges in taunt! Tankers imo should be the most likely to die first without ever often dying.

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Powers from lvl 1-24 are pretty much set. However I could possibly move the Fitness Pool down and place Resist Energies and the Fighting Pool into those places. Would anyone advise against that? ...or would it be best to leave it and get the fitness pool early?

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mate i'd advise against alot of your slotting, much of what people have had to say in this post i'd agree with but it really takes seeing your tanker in action to know.

I personally would have 3 endreduxs on tough and atleast an end redux in every attack. Some enemies are able to suck the blue right out of you, sappers arent the only ones.

Rage is either i can afford to kill quick and not worry about the end drop or i need to kill this AV quicker goddammit, i have no tohit buffs in mine and no matter what i face i dont see them as essential, rage is just additional damage to me to kill before being killed.

look at many post ED tank builds on these forums as certain ways of slotting powers tend to be pretty constant and they are for very good reasons imo. But i wont deny the idea of what looks like bad slotting can be very good i wont say you NEED this or that without seeing how your build works.

i wouldnt bother with taunts in the attacks as gauntlet is pretty damn good, moving taunt durations to the actual taunt power and also having better recharge means you can easily effect 5 enemies every 5 seconds for much much longer. But the taunts in haymaker and footstomp id make a recharge for attack chaining and also more frequent gauntleting. If i remember rightly i had an attack unslotted and had no other taunt power on, it took a blaster 10-15 secs to finally get aggro from me after my one hit.

The secondary effects in your powers such as disorients and holds add a bit more time to help successfully keep a threat preoccupied. The need for them has to come from your own experience.

whatever toon i play a prefer an empath to attack selectively and to be watching and adding buffs constantly, if the empath is doing that i know damn well they are really busy. If i dont see buffs happening to the right people at the right times then i'd wonder what that defenders all about and then if i see that they are attacking I will consider kicking them and getting a blaster.

A defender playing like a blaster is far less useful to the team than a blaster.

the attacks on my defender:

1 snipe = i have great psionic resistance (mindoverbody + weddingband) give me babbages alpha!
1 immobilise = stops enemies in pursuit of another/me
1 hold = see above
1 mass sleep = prevents second waves from attacking until first wave is done.
1 mass disorient = great panic button if things get out of hand for everyone

However i really dislike drawing attention to myself as i am no good dead, attacking whilst another needs help or simply having to be preoccupied with my own issues and not that of the teams.All attacks are used for defending not general damaging.

There are times when there is room to attack but they are very selective.

I got 5 second recharge on unyielding anyway incase it gets detoggled, my first stamina tick i dull pain (if i got no blues) and then its temp invuln and unyielding on second tick which is like 5 secs, I do not always drop all toggles either sometimes i drop only 1 and sometimes none depends on how i crash.

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I've don't use it on AVs except when I know we have less than 3 minutes or once by accident ( Killed by Nemesis Rex after the crash, how embarrassing

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with enough taunt duration there would be no harm in running and blocking but i guess you forgot to time it.