New Dawn

i have absolutely no tohit buffs whatsoever in the invincibility of my toon the buff is so low its a complete waste of a slot to me

Has anyone tried using consume with haste but no stamina with atleast 1 end redux in every attack and 3 end redux in tough if you have it?

consume itself maybe better 2 acc 1 end 3 recharge

[ QUOTE ]
Just thought I'd give to hit chances for fortified people. This assumes they have slotted one ACC in their powers and the powers are 75% base to hit ( true for 90% of powers ).

Enemy 0 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +7
No Fort: 95 90 81 73 63 54 45 33
0 TH : 95 95 95 95 95 88 78 67
1 TH : 95 95 95 95 95 94 85 73
2 TH : 95 95 95 95 95 95 91 80
3 TH : 95 95 95 95 95 95 95 85

So basically with no to hit buffs you are capping anything up to and including purples minions ( +4s ). I believe that Bosses and Lieutenants are generally as easy to hit as minions of the same level ( not the same colour ).

In light of this I believe that slotting defence is more useful than to hit as the to hit buff of Fortitude is good enough out of the box.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol u must patrol these boards like no one for figures or atleast you have nice little site to goto well i am definately going with 3 recharge 3 defence now.

I think you can be very offensive and still resistant enough to tank, this all comes together in later levels though. Tank first - killing machine later so as maybe to have people that permanently want to team with you as opposed to "omg i am powerdebting with this tank" - quits team.

I personally find the key to keeping my tanker on her feet is keeping everyone else on theirs as no matter how far you go to make your tanker offensive the team are always going to be more offensive. The quicker everything is killed the less damage you or anyone else takes. Play smart, herd groups to a safer kill area and try to be careful you dont herd the team into an ambush. Everyone has an off moment though and people get over it, its how you do most of the time that matters.

If i wanted a toon to solo easily i'd just go make a /regen scrapper.

[ QUOTE ]
Then for an offensive tanker I would go for a Fire³ Tanker

[/ QUOTE ]

When i said fire/fire/ice, fiery embrace completely slipped my mind so yeah i am inclined to agree before looking at things deeply as i'd need to look at attack chains. Either way squeezing powers and slots in may prove a pig.

You can make a tank that by lvl 50 is 3 slotted res/def in all primaries and fighting pool and 3 slotted in all secondaries for damage quite comfortably, the most offensive tanker i would "imagine" would be fire/fire(depending on how you measure damage)/ice epic. it does come down to how you measure damage though, ie single target, multi target, what damagetype villains have least resistance to overall(in which case energy and elements could be forerunners faik), dpss, dpsa. I made a fire/energy brute anyway thats heavy on the single target damage. Either way fire primary. I dont get too much into min/max figures though and i dont claim to know any, it'll just do my head in.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there should be no gap in atttacking someone the only time you stop is when their dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

5 mins 30 seconds and my using 25 respites into it - the broadsword regen said "i feel sorry for you i havent even had to heal yet". If he had headsplitter he would of 3 hit me.

[/ QUOTE ]

nope in pvp despite spamming follow up focus and eviscerate the only time i normally stop is if i am dead (does depend on what i face though). As my claws/sr i can fight for forever quite literally (well excluding against say kinetics) if it werent for my healthbar proceeding downwards. My only way to stop this on my own is aid self which i do have taken at lvl 44 (this will be respec'd in sooner).

I am going to slot 3 recharge 3 defence now because accuracy is something anyone can easily slot themselves for upto now mines been 3 recharge 1 to hit and 2 def.

i done some pvp today with my scrapper

my claws/sr lvl 50 vs broadsword/regen lvl 34 we both exemped to 31

5 mins 30 seconds and my using 25 respites into it - the broadsword regen said "i feel sorry for you i havent even had to heal yet". If he had headsplitter he would of 3 hit me.

there will be times pvp and pve ill outshine his scrapper with mine though (hopes) well definately pve and maybe against some controllers pvp.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Unslotted Focus Total damage = 102 * (1 + 0) = 102
Focus + follow up = 102 * (1 + 0.375) = 140.25
Focus + 1 SO = 102 * (1 + 0.33) = 135.66
Focus + 1 SO + follow up = 102 * (1 + 0.33 + 0.375) = 173.91
Focus + 2 SO + follow up = 102 * (1 + 0.33 + 0.33 + 0.375) = 207.572 damage slots lvl 52

[/ QUOTE ]

3 damage slots lvl52
focus pre follow up 201.58
focus post follow up 240.06 = 19% mark up

[/ QUOTE ]

Unslotted Focus Total damage = 201.58 * (1 + 0) = 201.58
focus + 3*++ SO + follow up = 201.58 * (1 * 0.35 + 0.35 + 0.35 + 0.375) = 287.25

but in game i got 240.06 thats quite far out dont you think? or have i done something wrong here?

[/ QUOTE ]

should be:

Total Damage = 102.59 * ( 1 + 0.35 + 0.35 + 0.35 + 0.375) = 248.78

But you have an ED penalty on your third SO which will bring the total down a bit. The main problem was that you'd used slotted damage where you shaoul have used the base value.

[/ QUOTE ]

ah yes! i also went (1 * 0.35 instead of (1 + 0.35 as well, no wonder! thx i should give up my day job as a proof reader

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Unslotted Focus Total damage = 102 * (1 + 0) = 102
Focus + follow up = 102 * (1 + 0.375) = 140.25
Focus + 1 SO = 102 * (1 + 0.33) = 135.66
Focus + 1 SO + follow up = 102 * (1 + 0.33 + 0.375) = 173.91
Focus + 2 SO + follow up = 102 * (1 + 0.33 + 0.33 + 0.375) = 207.572 damage slots lvl 52

[/ QUOTE ]

3 damage slots lvl52
focus pre follow up 201.58
focus post follow up 240.06 = 19% mark up

[/ QUOTE ]

Unslotted Focus Total damage = 201.58 * (1 + 0) = 201.58
focus + 3*++ SO + follow up = 201.58 * (1 * 0.35 + 0.35 + 0.35 + 0.375) = 287.25

but in game i got 240.06 thats quite far out dont you think? or have i done something wrong here?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well never have i seen a post showing the behaviour of build up or follow up or anything said. Seeing as you knew this is their any maths for it? As for bonus stacking ill go and find out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, the maths is pretty straightforward.

Total damage = Base damage * (1 + damage bonuses)

so, in your example with focus:

Unslotted Focus Total damage = 102 * (1 + 0) = 102
Focus + follow up = 102 * (1 + 0.375) = 140.25
Focus + 1 SO = 102 * (1 + 0.33) = 135.66
Focus + 1 SO + follow up = 102 * (1 + 0.33 + 0.375) = 173.91
Focus + 2 SO + follow up = 102 * (1 + 0.33 + 0.33 + 0.375) = 207.57

and so on. The small differences from your measured values are because you're using lvl52 SOs and I can't remember how much extra bonus that will give you off the top of my head, so I just approximated with even level ones instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would of thought the 0.33 becomes 0.34 at +1 and 0.35 at +2 and 0.36 at +3

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[...] Does its bonus stack with itself, out of interest?

[/ QUOTE ]
If it does stack, it doesn't display an additional icon on your buff-bar.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is an additional icon.

[...]

[/ QUOTE ]
In that case, I'm pretty damn awesome at timing when to use it . I've yet to get a second buff icon when using the power without the first icon disappearing .

[/ QUOTE ]

erm no recharge is 12 secs and the duration is 12 secs you could just be spamming it. nah u knew that and are playing.

[ QUOTE ]
The main problem with Follow Up in my experience is it almost decreases DPS - the time it takes use Follow Up you could have used another attack (which is easy in the Strike, Focus, Strike, Eviscerate chain) and the damage increase isn't actually enough to balance the loss of an attack in the chain.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is how i feel, i agree with you, i think follow up is basically an asset whilst you are lacking in slots and then past a certain level or the time when all your attacks are well slotted it may become a pittance of a power and it maybe best to do things differently.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[...] Does its bonus stack with itself, out of interest?

[/ QUOTE ]
If it does stack, it doesn't display an additional icon on your buff-bar.

[/ QUOTE ]

tested - results

follow up 3 recharge used within duration does show an additional icon in the buff bar having 3 recharge follow up and hasten would show this for longer.

does it stack

against lvl 52 spectral series 1

follow up attacks 40.03
focus strikes 112.85
follow up attacks 55.04
focus strikes 143.6

yes it does stack but i wouldnt remove any damage slots for the sake of recharge without putting myself through mathematical boredom to find out what changes i could make to what attacks? how many recharge? how many damage? what attackchain? i am willing to accept common slotting of 3 dam, then acc, end and rec or whatever it is for better peace of mind and just get on with the game.

[ QUOTE ]
Any SR scrapper, can make a dangerous team with an Empath. The others tend to benefit more from a Kin. SR + Fortitude = Reasonable defence

[/ QUOTE ]

well slotted sr + well defence slotted fortitude = pretty much elude+ from what i have to work out with figures wise.

To my info, fort offers 30% defence to lethal, smash, fire, cold, energy, neg energy and psionics, slot that 3 defense slots all +2 say roughly adding 66% to it thats almost 50% defence added to someone. Elude is 45% no wonder i barely have to heal the person i gave it too. 3 recharge slots in fort you can keep 2 people in the team perma-forted approximately, so thats the tanker and anyone else thats somehow managed to be a target despite having a tanker on the team.

Thats not reasonable defence thats great defence. Until scaleability comes of defence the benefits of fortitude isnt fully realised. All types of defenders are worth the same to any team in my eyes but yes to certain AT's some types can be of more benefit than others.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[...] as a rule a toggle has to be brought to about .24 eps if possible.

[/ QUOTE ]
Eh? Since when, and when was the memo sent around? I sure didn't get one!

[/ QUOTE ]

no you wont nobody likes you enough but people i know who have endurance problems i just tell them that and they go away and come back with much better more fun character that doesnt stop, rest and say "wait for me".

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lvl 50 possessed scientist

3 damage slots lvl52
focus pre follow up 201.58
focus post follow up 240.06 = 19% mark up

2 damage slots lvl 52
focus pre follow up 177.42
focus post follow up 215.19 = 21% mark up

1 damage slot lvl 52
focus pre follow up 140.17
focus post follow up 178.65 = 27% mark up

0 damage slot lvl 52
focus pre follow up 102.59
focus post follow up 141.07 = 36.5% mark up

ok it looks scaleable the more damage you have in your attacks the less effective follow up is omg how devious can the devs be and omg how bored must i be doing that

[/ QUOTE ]

This is perfectly normal behaviour - you'd see the same thing with Build Up if you tested it with another build. Damage boosters add a proportion of the base damage of a power, which will become a smaller proportion of total damage as more Damage enhancements are added. This means, among other things, that all such damage boosters became substantially more powerful post-ED.

37.5% does seem a pretty low bonus, though, but at least it can be in effect almost constantly - a lot better than Build Up in that respect - and adds slightly more than one extra SO would have done. Does its bonus stack with itself, out of interest?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well never have i seen a post showing the behaviour of build up or follow up or anything said. Seeing as you knew this is their any maths for it? As for bonus stacking ill go and find out.

[ QUOTE ]
That said, Claws/SR can be useful in a team, and makes a formidable duo with an Empath

[/ QUOTE ]

that said any scrapper in i4 can make a formidable duo with an empath and some dark armour scrappers fail to slot for end properly as a rule a toggle has to be brought to about .24 eps if possible.

[ QUOTE ]
The knockback on Focus (can't speak for Shockwave as I've yet to get it myself) is knockdown for even conning villains, so it's rarely an issue (unless of course you spend a lot of time fighting villains below your level).

[/ QUOTE ]

Not strictly true afaik and i only play on invincible unless i am helping someone, its generally more of a knockdown on bosses and i think maybe it scales from knockback to knockdown depending on the level and type of enemy you hit. I will test this.

i just tested follow up on test server and had results of my attacks with/without follow up with no powers slotted then i will go test it live with my powers slotted but so far i had this against a thorncaster
no follow up

focus thorncaster for 77.97
eviscerate thorncaster for 80.82

follow up thorn caster for 38.03
focus thorn caster for 107.21 giving a 37.5% mark up
eviscerate thorn caster for 111.13 giving a 37.5% mark up

right now ill leave this post unfinished and go test live

eviscerate deathmage for 232.83
used follow up then..
eviscerate deathmage for 277.1 giving a 19% mark up

however this maybe due to the deathmage putting unknown to me toggles on adding resistance.

damn more testing! but one thing is for sure i think its wrong to look and expect an attack to offer the same effect against a certain level minion of an enemy type for example against any other type of enemy minion of same level.

ok more testing done

spectra series 1 lvl 50 minion - focus was a knockdown
spectra series 1 lvl 52 minion - still a knockdown obviously
deathmage lvl 48 boss - focus was a knockback
deathmage lvl 50 boss - focus was a knockdown

against spectra series 1 lvl 52

eviscerate 209.76
eviscerate after follow up 249.67 = 19% mark up

against death mage lvl 50

eviscerate 255.9
eviscerate after follow up 304.56 = 19% mark up

so concluding on test so far upto i6 follow up offers an increase in damage to an attack of 19%

on test server it was 37.5% (attacks unslotted) so far it looks to me like a fix to be happy about unless something scaleable is going on so then i deleted so's

lvl 50 possessed scientist

3 damage slots lvl52
focus pre follow up 201.58
focus post follow up 240.06 = 19% mark up

2 damage slots lvl 52
focus pre follow up 177.42
focus post follow up 215.19 = 21% mark up

1 damage slot lvl 52
focus pre follow up 140.17
focus post follow up 178.65 = 27% mark up

0 damage slot lvl 52
focus pre follow up 102.59
focus post follow up 141.07 = 36.5% mark up

ok it looks scaleable the more damage you have in your attacks the less effective follow up is omg how devious can the devs be and omg how bored must i be doing that

[ QUOTE ]
Think it's a 50% Acc/Dam Buff. But not sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

follow up adds about 1/6th in damage to an attack thats like 17% rounded up. As for accuracy i am not sure, it could be the same. People can look to sherks herobuilder for figures if they want but i dont always find them anywhere close to correct.

[ QUOTE ]
Claws has a Knockback on Focus and Shockwave

[/ QUOTE ]

There are many people that fight on follow in order to stay on an opponent who dont like knockbacks, because that means they have to chase the opponent and find themselves running of the edge of something or maybe toward another group. The time to follow an opponent messes up attack chains and reduces killing speed. Tankers dont like having to reherd and alot of people out there prefer knockdown to knockback.

[ QUOTE ]
-DEF on Slash. Plus a re-occuring Damage and Accuracy Buff as a part of the Attack Chain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Firstly you have to actually hit with the slash and follow up to gain anything out of them. No hit no gain. The amount of extra damage you gain from follow up is way less than build up, probably less than half that than build up and lasts 10 seconds. So every ten seconds you can have about 1/6 th extra damage added to your poorly damaging claws set providing you actually hit. Its quite boring really, to gain the most out of claws you may have to follow up - focus (possibly run towards what you knocked back) - strike -eviscerate - focus - follow up - focus - strike - eviscerate - focus. Shockwave is a great multihit but can be used at an inconvenient time that can mess up the multihit attacks of others so thats a selectively used power imo.

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding SR, people sure can whine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Other sets have scaleable resists plus the ability to heal, atm there is no scaleable defence the higher the level you face the less defence you have. As for whining it was rightly so during certain issues. Since ED a super reflex is no longer hit by others in pvp for 6 slotted damage and people cant perma certain powers in their builds anymore for such great accuracy that they never ever miss.

[ QUOTE ]
It's always been a somewhat risky set. But at one point SR was the solo AV Hunting set. A ton of vids showed up at the US Boards with SR Scrappers soling AVs like a breeze. This has gradually changed, think it was in I4 (or was it I3) there was a beef-up on enemies there SR had a bit more trouble (still could take on AVs though). All of this of course, were mostly about MA/SR Scrappers.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was i3, Elude was the granite armour of scrapper sets in a way, and it made up for the pain of levelling one up. Prior to elude if anything hit you, you took full damage and without a healer or respite you had nothing left to do but run away and rest. With a healer "maybe" you get healed as i remember it it was hit a couple of times, runaway, run back with health hit a couple of times - runaway... (Facing higher levels as most people do everything hit you). When i solo'd atta with my claws/super reflex killing all 350 it took twice as long as soloing atta with my katana regen due to downtime. Thats half the xp/time imo.

[ QUOTE ]
SR is probably the greatest proof in existance that Balance never is constant in this game. It's been swung back and forth.

[/ QUOTE ]

As you say swung back and forth during issues and therefore in certain issues lack of balance has given super reflexes something to whine about and thats what sticks in peoples heads. People only really whine during an issue thats bad for them then the next issue rights the wrong. Since ED in PVP i have way less to complain about i would say that super reflex is still difficult to keep alive without outside power pools but nowhere near as much as it was before. PVE there are times where i appreciate being a super reflex and their are times i dont, some enemies are more of a threat than others at different levels. I have seen an old school firetank go down tanking old school stylee in i6 followed by the rest of the team but not me who clicked elude and cleaned up. When scaleable defence comes back they will reduce evasion to what it was and i will be backing away from the +anything warhulk once again before it explodes whilst others simply take the hit. Do i want to stand amongst exploding jaegers - not really.

[ QUOTE ]
Then propose a build with powers that work for you and your idea of slotting and maybe people can say things like "its better to have an end rec and a dam res instead of having an extra 2defs in combat jump" type thing and why.

[/ QUOTE ]

uh-oh typo i meant to say "its better to have an end rec and a dam res added in unstoppable instead of having an extra 2defs in combat jump" type thing and why.

[ QUOTE ]
oh, and SR is prolly the best set for PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not other peoples toons can be very accurate and there is no personal way to put health back unless you get aid self. Whatever sr is, it has to be "the thinking persons scrapper". I have a claws super reflex scrapper, in pvp duels mostly everyone non-super reflex is a real challenge to actually kill and its a real challenge to stay alive for the length of time it takes to kill anything. In team pvp it has a chance to shine but people dont often play like npc's so that chance is nothing to write home about compared to spines, spines has nice secondary effects. Without scaleable defence levelling up can be a bit of a nightmare you may need that extra run speed to run away before you got faceplanted and once away take a moment to use rest to get the healthbar back up. My scrapper has beat my blaster to third debt badge by 4 lvls (blaster 3rd debt badge at 42). I'd be amazed if claws/super reflex isn't the most challenging scrapper combo to have, no i'd be completely shocked having not only played other types but against other types aswell. Once i7 kicks in then there will be balance defensively pve i am sure. In fact with my lvl 50 Katalina i imagine i may well be feeling most uber.

Despite all that i can imagine it being really great for a stalker, i just got katana on my stalker for something different.

[ QUOTE ]
I found that if you give someone fort, they're not going to know whether you've got 3 +def in there or whatever, as long as they see the shiny red glow, they're happy enough!

[/ QUOTE ]

mr cuddles loved my fort, and some people even ask me for my slotting but whether people notice or not is irrelevent because i notice it. If someone has been a bit of a target once they have fort things tend to be alot easier for me. The higher the level of enemy your team faces or the more accurate more def is better.

People build differently because they dont play the same so for now i'd say if you have more than 3 slots of something delete the excess, go play your tank, and then aside from any needs from wanting those slots back decide for yourself what otherways you can add to your survivability and to that of the team you are tanking for.
Then propose a build with powers that work for you and your idea of slotting and maybe people can say things like "its better to have an end rec and a dam res instead of having an extra 2defs in combat jump" type thing and why.