New Dawn

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I was planning on getting Repel anyway as a way of staying out of prolonged periods of melee.

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i LOVE repel, whats not herded, you can knock about into a corner (bit like football) somewhere whilst supporting the the team simultaneously. In pvp it has a great chance (despite toggle nerfs) imo to detoggle and it will detoggle anyone i believe.

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I think MoG is still the weakest of the scrapper 9th tier powers in its current state.

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Dark Armour tier 9: Soul Transfer (self res)

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Yeah, a power with which you can one-shot stun the recluses victory signature villains is surely underpowered

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Yes but you got killed more easily first and can be killed more easily soon after.

Regens is highly regarded as the most survivable and easiest set to have.

Unstoppable is just resistance on an invuln and in the face of a single AV has def not worth laughing about, defence means you miss out on secondary effects, you have more chance of not getting hit which is a better than feeling every hit. Not only can you cap res to everything unstoppable can, you also can get extremely good defence at a price of slightly less hp, i have yet to experience MoG but as someone whose experienced in using unstoppable at anytime and find ways of crashing without defeat I very much doubt i am going to find MoG weak.

Here is some advice i got from Seriphos awhile ago regarding dark/dark for my brute. I spoke to Seriphos seeing as he probably has more dark armours than anyone and i wanted to see how far away from his viewpoints were from mine (of which some is edited out of this post being about brutes really and alot are iirc in another post).

Just adapt it into scrapperness, i would say that your choice of slotting may vary in 1 or 2 powers but regarding amount of slots per power i personally think Seriphos is very good.

This was for a brute that builds fury, his scrapper may well would probably differ, so use this as a guide.

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Brute
Primary: Dark Melee
Secondary: Dark Armor
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01) --> Smite==> Acc(1) Acc(3) EndRdx(3) Rechg(5) Dmg(5) Dmg(7)
01) --> Dark Embrace==> DmgRes(1) DmgRes(7) DmgRes(9) EndRdx(9)
02) --> Shadow Maul==> Acc(2) Acc(11) EndRdx(11) Rechg(13) Dmg(13) Dmg(15)
04) --> Murky Cloud==> DmgRes(4) DmgRes(15) DmgRes(17) EndRdx(17)
06) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(6)
08) --> Touch of Fear==> Acc(8) Acc(19) Rechg(19) Rechg(21) Fear(21) Fear(23)
10) --> Air Superiority==> Acc(10) Acc(23) EndRdx(25) Rechg(25) Dmg(27) Dmg(27)
12) --> Obsidian Shield==> DmgRes(12) DmgRes(29) DmgRes(29) EndRdx(31)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Dark Regeneration==> Acc(16) Acc(31) Rechg(31) Rechg(33) Rechg(33) Heal(33)
18) --> Swift==> Run(18)
20) --> Health==> Heal(20) Heal(34) Heal(34)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(34) EndMod(36)
24) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(24) EndRdx(36)
26) --> Dark Consumption==> Acc(26) Acc(36) Rechg(37) Rechg(37) EndMod(37) EndMod(39)
28) --> Soul Drain==> Acc(28) Acc(39) Rechg(39) Rechg(40) Rechg(40) TH_Buf(40)
30) --> Hasten==> Rechg(30) Rechg(42) Rechg(42)
32) --> Midnight Grasp==> Acc(32) Acc(42) EndRdx(43) Rechg(43) Dmg(43) Dmg(45)
35) --> Death Shroud==> Acc(35) EndRdx(45) EndRdx(45) Dmg(46) Dmg(50)
38) --> Cloak Of Fear==> EndRdx(38) EndRdx(46)
41) --> Oppressive Gloom==> Acc(41) Acc(50)
44) --> Siphon Life==> Acc(44) Acc(46) Heal(48) Heal(48) Rechg(48) Rechg(50)
47) --> Cloak Of Darkness==> DefBuf(47)
49) --> Super Speed==> Run(49)

The build order isn't there, and can be shuffled around fairly easily, but the key powers are there by 30. Air Supes I see as fairly key, since it bolsters the lacklustre DM attack chain, and is useful for mitigating damage in PVE and PVP. Death Shroud is there for damage, you can switch it out if it's not your taste. CoF I got for stacking with ToF, but I would reccomend you remove some slots from somewhere of your choice, and 6 slot it. Without accuracy and end reductions, it's a drain. With them, bye bye minions and LTs.

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I hope it helps.

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I think MoG is still the weakest of the scrapper 9th tier powers in its current state.

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Dark Armour tier 9: Soul Transfer (self res)

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I was tempted to make a cheerleader character for a EM brute to go with the pink pom-poms.

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I did, and she is called Pom-Pom

Slotting order, oh it dont matter, well maybe it does, slot dullpain before barrage, saving more slots till later on the higher dps attacks, even leave any end reduxs on toggles out till you have all attacks end reduxed, any damage in attacks especially aoe and heavy hitters help to -fight duration and more damage per endurance, air superiority is one of your weaker dps attacks so get more in bonesmasher and whirling hands first. Forget slotting boxing and 6 slot tough to atleast 2 end and 3 res asap. End redux in invincibility id make a taunt for now. Fly is low end cost now, i dont think ya need an end redux on it with stamina unless you fly and fight simultaneously. If you open up the fight pool then imo you should get weave asap and not start with passives.

If it was me with them power choices i'd kick off like this for a rough idea of what i mean:

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Energy Melee
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01) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(1) DmgRes(7) DmgRes(7) EndRdx(27)
01) --> Barrage==> Acc(1) EndRdx(29)
02) --> Dull Pain==> Rechg(2) Rechg(3) Rechg(3) Heal(5) Heal(5) Heal(13)
04) --> Resist Physical Damage==> DmgRes(4) DmgRes(11) DmgRes(11)
06) --> Air Superiority==> Acc(6) EndRdx(13)
08) --> Unyielding==> DmgRes(8) DmgRes(9) DmgRes(9)
10) --> Taunt==> Rechg(10) Rechg(21) Taunt(25)
12) --> Hurdle==> Jump(12)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14) Fly(15) Fly(15)
16) --> Whirling Hands==> Acc(16) EndRdx(17) Rechg(17) Dmg(37) Dmg(37) Dmg(40)
18) --> Invincibility==> DefBuf(18) DefBuf(19) DefBuf(19) Taunt(21)
20) --> Health==> Heal(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(23) EndMod(23)
24) --> Boxing==> Acc(24) EndRdx(25)
26) --> Tough Hide==> DefBuf(26) DefBuf(27)
28) --> Tough==> EndRdx(28) EndRdx(29) DmgRes(34) DmgRes(34) DmgRes(34)
30) --> Weave==> EndRdx(30) EndRdx(31) DefBuf(31) DefBuf(31) DefBuf(33)
32) --> Unstoppable==> Rechg(32) Rechg(33) Rechg(33)
35) --> Energy Transfer==> Acc(35) EndRdx(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(37)
38) --> Total Focus==> Acc(38) EndRdx(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39)
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01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
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24) --> Hasten==> Rechg(24) Rechg(34) Rechg(34)

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Only useful with long recharge powers as its unsustainable to be considered good with anything else imo unless pvp.


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Fiddlesticks. I never PvP with my tank and hasten is on auto everytime else except when Im tanking Hami.

Ps. Health is worth 3 slots on a tank.

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ok tell me what permanently sustainable gains you get from haste with anything other than long recharge powers.

I'll be available for it hopefully as ever with jaqi my empath defender cos she is the only 1 of 2 with a hold above 45, you dont want my tanks type of hold trust me XD. Ive had loads of experience in the tank taunt team, done more in taunt team than not, even Absorb Pain is 6 slotted.

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01) --> Rock Armor==> DefBuf(1) DefBuf(3) DefBuf(3) EndRdx(5)

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move the end redux slot to taunt

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01) --> Bash==> Acc(1) Acc(5) Dmg(7) DisDur(7) EndRdx(9) Rechg(9)

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acc, end, 1-2 rechg is fine i think, the rest could go elsewhere and be of more value

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04) --> Pulverize==> Acc(4) Acc(13) Dmg(13) DisDur(15) EndRdx(15) Rechg(17)

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its 6 slotted which is nice so at anytime you can have whatever you want to put in it

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06) --> Earth's Embrace==> Rechg(6) Rechg(17) Rechg(19) Heal(19) Heal(21)

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id of 6 slotted it but 5 is upto you

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08) --> Mud Pots==> EndRdx(8) EndRdx(21) EndRdx(23) Dmg(23) Dmg(25) Dmg(25)

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When herding +lvls more taunt slots would be nice as foes would be easily picked out of your aura, and its nice to be as remembered as you can whilst herding with impatient/never seen a tank before, players in the team.

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16) --> Rooted==> EndRdx(16) Heal(29) Heal(29) Heal(31)

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in order to tank effectively from as low level as possible you need mezz protection asap its ok if someone proactively buffs you but not much helps against kb at low level, i wouldnt level up on this build order, the end redux id move elsewhere too.

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18) --> Health==> Heal(18)

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your using it just to get to stamina really

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22) --> Taunt==> Rechg(22) Rechg(33) Taunt(33)

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Personally i think its late too, but i know its underslotted for when you have to keep aggro with AVs in granite form of high level.

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24) --> Hasten==> Rechg(24) Rechg(34) Rechg(34)

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Only useful with long recharge powers as its unsustainable to be considered good with anything else imo unless pvp.

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30) --> Teleport Foe==> Range(30)

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id of forgot tp friend if i had good reason to have this so as to get other powers.

Atleast 2 rechgs in attacks for when your in granite form to counter -rechg perhaps.

With a kin all the way then i dont see a point in taking most of it.

Its a good build, and its easy to alter whats in a slot for soloing because the slots are there.

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Imagine you slotted your attack with 2 SO Acc. Thats 66%, or 0.66. Lets say your opponent has SR and got the 45% cap and for some reason (maybe he got Dark Melee) you are suffering a -10% Debuff when you attack. And you have no Buffs.

To Hit Value = (1 + 0.66) * (0.75 +0 -0.45 -0.1) = 33%

[/ QUOTE ]I believe you forgot to add the 25% defence boost all players have in PvP.

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or maybe the sr went into the zone with just 20% def to self?

I am replying to this because it needs to be brought up again, its currently worked its way as far back on the tanker section as it almost possibly can get.

I am currently seeing too many tankers with all the defensiveness in the world and yet no way for them to get hit. Typically every armour in the stone tank set, med pool, fight pool and no mudpots on and no taunt at all.

They may not actually start tanking until the team is completely wiped and the enemies have no one left to attack.

With a tanker that wants to get hit it can happen with teams that dont allow the tanker ample opportunity to do their job.

I dont care for guides to builds anywhere as near as much as guides for taunt control. Every build is different and so maybe needs to be allowed to play slightly differently to achieve control, some tanks can cope playing recoveratively whilst some need to be more preventative to be just as or more effective.

I think you are overslotting toggles with endurance slots when there is room to slot all the attacks commonly used in your attack chain first and have more attack chains per end bar.

Your acc will be through the roof with aim and TD which seems a little overkill imo id not tohit buff aim.

Powerchoice wise is an each to their own thing so good luck with it.

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That is an interesting build but I beleive slightly unbalanced as one great damage mitigator is doing damage yourself.

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Thats partially why i never made one like it, other reasons include concept, forcing me more to see defenders and controllers of a great value and having to play to suit them. Many tanks I have seen do not, rendering some of those ATs with defender sets practically ignored, undervalued and unable to offer as much as they could with safety but i dont think Alvan does that, if i could bring my trick archer to his team on union id probably get to enjoy playing her properly. There are some tanks who may atleast try to attempt to create ideal settings for those with certain less flexible defender sets, but may not get to do so due to the impatientness of teams.

All scrapper sets have their assets, however the players behind them often dont.

All my scrappers can boss lock and fight minions at the sametime. If i let the tank herd, i have more chance of this.
Sometimes there is a foe in a mob that can really show up a tanks weaknesses and not mine so i might pull that one away using single target taunt during or just before the herding process. On a mob where its hard to pick the undesireable one out you could use macros like /targetname sapper, or /targetname dark ring mistress in the case of having an invuln tank that doesnt deal with them well. I got to rush off i'll come back to this later.
Once you know what

I hate reading the american forums it just depresses me, sometimes makes me sick to the stomach and i often feel that the devs take too much of an unreasonable beating but once in awhile i go see whats changed.

Picked this up from the fixing the fiery aura set:

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Blazing Aura :
As it stands, Blazing aura is the strongest damage aura in the game, being about 10% stronger than the average aura and 22% stronger than the Stone tanker damage aura (note that aura is also extremely endurance heavy.) We cant complain about this power.

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We cant complain about the fact it isnt autohit taunt?

The damage per endurance is great.

I stopped reading after that except to see if anyone else thought it should be autohit taunt and nope...

I have seen a firetank do a +3 babbage on an 8 man team 2 missions in a row with no defeats with good teamwork, that makes it good enough to me.

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Union ones tend to be more dispersed than the Defiant ones, as we have no prominent player who organises them

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You dont have to be prominent.

Most of the people who turn up turn up for the hami raid dont have a clue who the raid leader is.

Most raid leaders have their heads bashing against the wall with the amount of uncooperative, poor listeners in the raid.

Most raid leaders dont try again the following week which is not offering more opportunity for people to get better and better as a community on it.

People who put their own levelling first wont start coming until they see hamidon being done sucessfully and as easily in the short time it can be made possible, because its boring to them and often a waste of time. These people arent helping but may join the bandwagon once we dont need them too anyway so they can start saving on slots.

I feel the halloween event has been great, union players have overall been being very helpful and cooperative to one another which is a good sign.

Work stops me from organising one every week. Plus the fact that if i wanted to do it i'd want to do it with no deaths

Pookie!!!

I dont know why they cant make frozen aura do pbaoe "fear" like with dark armour but call it "shiver" and leave off the scarey graphics. oh wait i do, itll make the /icetank too good? or would it when you have icepatch anyways? Icepatch wont do for flyers, the pbaoe fear maybe could.

Before Def scaleability by and large the super reflex scrapper was the most careful in the game, they had to be. So I personally see as where Hammerfall is coming from.

If I am playing any AT id rather have an old school super reflex in the team when it comes to a scrapper due to their careful playing which allows more time for the other team members to adapt.

invulns are better if numbers are herded which helps other sets (def gets better)

dark armours are better if numbers are herded which helps other sets (heal is better, auras affect more)

regens are self reliant and only have to think of themselves and so may not care about anyone else or think about the "ripple effect" of their actions.

super reflexes + aid self are becoming more self reliant and are probably going the way of the regen in gung ho ness now.

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As Organi pointed out, The only worry I have with this character is keeping aggro. If I had to worry about keeping them close to me with Gauntlet and not Taunt aura (for example if the taunt aura had a tohit probability), Hasten would be more necessary to keep up my attack rate and thus my Gauntlet.

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i seriously dont regard gauntlet as "aggro control" even though it is but its far from enough so never thought about considering haste for attacks also additionally again because haste isnt always there, i use it for long rechg powers, the rest have to be sustainable.

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Ranged hold has the problem that it works on AVs only 50% of the time as their hold resistance varies. There are only few AVs out there (Infernal is the first to come to mind) with proper Immob resistance. Thus I chose an Immob over hold.

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I am thankful for that observation. My stone tank is yet to get earth epics to find out. Very good to know.

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With multiple Sappers I have to resort to using Lucks, but those situations are luckily quite rare. Usually teams (or someone else besides me in a team) know to take down Sappers first, so most of the time I don't need to do much more than jump in and KO Blow the Sapper, and the rest of the team deals enough damage to get rid of it. I can basically take down a +2 Sapper solo by hitting Rage, KO Blow, Footstomp and then Jab/Box/Brawl it until it is down, +3 if I have damage inspirations or support. Usually I don't have to.

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i have knockout blow 2 acc 1 end 3 hold, plus foc acc 2 end 3 tohit plus if i am soloing a malta mission (which id rather with caves) i may use rage. Its alot of acc and tohit, and still the sappers can be missed. I find kob despite all that is my least accurate attack or at least feels like it.

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The 10 second Only Affecting Self is quite nasty, especially as it is a Defense DeBuff and blocks out Invincibility as well, but haven't had a problem of someone dying because of it so-far. Probably one day that too will happen.

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Your taunt control is good, it could happen, but hardly likely. I did the Maria Jenkins arc, all of it once over a few nights, 3 deaths total, 1 where my mate went to get a sneak preview of infernal, he got blattered. Another 1 when Marauder went unstoppable... I was typing "dont do anything until he crashes" and in went aimed shot whilst i was typing and as i also had a rage crash. Other death i cant recall i just keep count. It was good teaming over that arc not necessarily the best of my tanking.

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Also, taking Focused Accuracy would have meant taking another power for -Fly effect and something to keep the enemy afar. If I wanted FA, I'd most likely switch Superjump for Flight and take Air Superiority for the Tier 1 power from the Pool. But as it would make me lose my ranged Immob, I would most likely not to it anyways.

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Was just saying i use it, not you should take it, all epics have a bonus.

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* No Hasten, Invincibility will keep enemies close even if you get hit with -recharge powers.

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i cant see the relationship between haste and invincible, dull pain yes, invincible nope.


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I believe they're talking about the recharge time of taunt, and how speeding it up using hasten is not necessary as invinicible will hold mobs in place until taunt is ready again.

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invincible does that anyway to 10, taunt could be just for the more than 10 and haste isnt always up in order to be viable as a means of recharge.

Well you can tank with it, but you can tank with almost any key powered and decently slotted build anyway. I am going to guess soloing sucks.

On a good note my defenders could focus on blasting for a change but then i have blasters for that.

Dark ring mistresses how do you find them with your build out of interest?

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* No Unstoppable, as Unstoppable only leads to Unstoppable crashing and unnecessary worrying about how long you can tank.

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i am sometimes utterly amazed out how good defender sets can actually be, now that the buff flashes to help especially

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* No Hasten, Invincibility will keep enemies close even if you get hit with -recharge powers.

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i cant see the relationship between haste and invincible, dull pain yes, invincible nope.

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* Stone Prison to keep AVs immobilized while you Taunt them from distance.

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Best way to do an AV imo, although a ranged hold maybe as good or better, but ranged hold is better than the kob melee hold

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* Aid Self for a self-heal (anyone who calls Dull Pain a proper self heal isn't taking enough damage)

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its a +hp and take the alpha heal.

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* KO Blow to help take care of Sappers

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it does help with me, i have 3 hold slots which gives me ample time to slip my attack chain in, and also means i can still be first in on malta unless it misses but then i have unstoppable, a room with 3 sappers close together is just click unstoppable and use a well slotted taunt.

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* Rage to deal with -ToHit

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i took foc acc for that, cos i dont like relying on rage, i dont like "only affecting self" times. The foc acc is +per so when it came to arachnos and them trying to blind me i was fine.

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* Your main protection is your Defense - move into as many enemies as possible and use them to boost your Invincibility.

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quick fly by taunt and hide with team standing 40 yards back is fastest way to herd and instantly gets mob into melee range, i never could understand the run round and effect mobs for 2 secs with taunt and then hide in every situation.

Powerchoices are down to concept and playstyle, slottings important and so is playing to suit build and choosing the right playstyle well enough to suit other peoples build.

My trick archer would love this tank, my empath would be wishing she slotted attacks more.

i have a habit of hitting quote these days, i dont know why, you could of wrote "hello" and it would of looked like this:

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hello

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hi!:P

Back on topic,

Someone could say "i do this, this and this" and it may work for them but other people adopting the same tactic may get defeated because whats unknown is why it works for the person who said it. So i just mentioned my other possible expectations of it.

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Hmm . becuase weave and cj together gives 10 % def , and with all mine and fortitude on i have around 60-70% def . without elude

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sorry you lost me,

i dont see weave in your build and there is nothing wrong with taking combat jump, i cant see that slotting for extra 0.5% def isnt gonna make that much difference in the tohit calculations you'll most likely enter. You have an empath backing you for heals on top of you already being buffed and having aid self. Its extremism to me, id be looking to make myself a little bit more self sufficient in the offense department.

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AFAIK there is no -ACC on granite mine has shown no signs of missing more than when out of granite.

[/ QUOTE ]It had -30% acc which was removedin I3, and now it has -30% dam and -65% rech.

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-70% recharge I think it was, MaX, but close enough

[/ QUOTE ]NoFuture states 65%

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i end up cross referencing herobuilder with nofuture (and then actual testing "what i can" at times) as not all if its 100% all there.