New Dawn

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Thinking about it, one of the best LRSF setups I can think of would consist of two brutes (each one covering weaknesses of the other), four corruptors with a certain variety of secondary powersets and preferably one sonic attacker and two dominators.

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Heretic.

Posts like this disgust me. You're implying that a balanced team with a mix of ATs and powersets will do best, almost as if the game was designed to be like that. You and your sort have no place here.

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I dont know how you can think he is implying that or how you can be so harsh. In his example he doesnt include every AT, there is no MM or Stalker.

Did ya miss one of these?-->

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The RSF is pretty balanced now, they'd only need to add unresistable damage to AS (it's there in pvp, but not in pve) and all stalkers crits to make stalkers useful in the 2 last missions. I'd certainly want stalkers on my team if they could AS for 700+ through Statesman's unstoppable.

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Agreed to a similar extent.

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02) --> Snow Storm==> EndRdx(2) EndRdx(11) Rechg(11)

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I'd drop the recharge and change it into a slow. Maybe even add another slot and have 2 slows. This will help with stopping scattering the mobs when you put down freezing rain.

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The recharge was a comeback should anyone go straight in and drop the anchor, i think the anchor on stormies maybe the hardest to see or maybe its just me, but i am gonna have to add a slow to it now.

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06) --> Steamy Mist==> DmgRes(6) DmgRes(15) DmgRes(17) EndRdx(17) Rechg(19) Rechg(45)

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The only reason I can really see that you need those recharges is because you will run out of endurance and have it keep falling off Personally I would remove the 6th slot and change one of the recharges to a 2nd end redux.

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Well it was incase i get mezzed i can use a bf and have it back up asap but i dont know how likely that would happen, if its unlikely then i have possibly saved a slot, id have to check with my.. wait i cant call it an attack chain :P but chain of powers as its just a 0.26 eps power.

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08) --> Freezing Rain==> Acc(8) Acc(9) EndRdx(19) Rechg(21) Rechg(21) Rechg(37)

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I've never really noticed this needing accuracy. I would swap those accuracys to defence debuffs

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Ah yeah with all them ticks of rain only one of them has to hit to do the job! What was i thinking? (i blame the flu). Ill change that then, i wasnt happy with putting acc it.

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12) --> Hurricane==> Rechg(12) Rechg(25) EndRdx(25) TH_DeBuf(27) TH_DeBuf(27) TH_DeBuf(29)

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I would swap a recharge for an end redux.

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It was to get it back up after using a bf.

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32) --> Lightning Storm==> EndRdx(32) Acc(33) Acc(40) Rechg(40) Dmg(40) Dmg(42)

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I've never really noticed this needing accuracy either. I'd change the accuracys to recharge

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Well its a pet so i couldnt buff it with aim i dont think but 1 acc instead of 2 is probably better cos then i have more dam slots. The rechg with haste was just to get it atleast perma.

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38) --> Tesla Cage==> Acc(38) Acc(43) EndRdx(43) Hold(45) Rechg(45)

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Such a useful power for a defender - I would try and take this at 28 when it becomes available.

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I know but i wanted to get other powers more often useful or better slotted and as its a single target i just got it where i could bar combat jump .

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The only other comment is the number of slots on gale. I tended to find once I had hurricane I used gale very very rarely. Having 2 accuracy on it would probably be enough

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I'll go with that, i thought it be good like that for lower levels and i like exempable builds. I do worry about powers being available asap so i might keep some recharges.

Thanks for your time and effort I'll come back with changes.

Some changes: i kept rechg on debuff toggles incase of bf moments. Overly cautious?

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name: Hurricane Cindy
Level: 50
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Storm Summoning
Secondary: Electrical Blast
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01) --> O2 Boost==> Rechg(1) Rechg(3) Heal(3) Heal(5) Heal(5) EndRdx(7)
01) --> Charged Bolts==> EndRdx(1) Acc(46)
02) --> Snow Storm==> EndRdx(2) Slow(7) Slow(11) Rechg(21)
04) --> Gale==> Acc(4) Acc(9) EndRdx(15)
06) --> Steamy Mist==> DmgRes(6) DmgRes(15) DmgRes(37) EndRdx(37)
08) --> Freezing Rain==> Rechg(8) Rechg(9) Rechg(11) EndRdx(40) DefDeBuf(43) DefDeBuf(46)
10) --> Hover==> Fly(10) Fly(21) Fly(46)
12) --> Hurricane==> TH_DeBuf(12) TH_DeBuf(13) TH_DeBuf(13) Rechg(17)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14) Fly(17) Fly(50)
16) --> Swift==> Fly(16)
18) --> Thunder Clap==> Acc(18) Acc(19) EndRdx(19) Rechg(45)
20) --> Health==> Heal(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(23) EndMod(23)
24) --> Hasten==> Rechg(24) Rechg(25) Rechg(25)
26) --> Aim==> Rechg(26) Rechg(27) Rechg(27) TH_Buf(39)
28) --> Tornado==> Rechg(28) Rechg(29) EndRdx(29) Dmg(37) Dmg(39) Dmg(39)
30) --> Tesla Cage==> Acc(30) Acc(31) EndRdx(31) Rechg(31) Hold(34)
32) --> Lightning Storm==> Acc(32) EndRdx(33) Rechg(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(34) Dmg(34)
35) --> Short Circuit==> Rechg(35) Rechg(36) Rechg(36) EndMod(36) EndMod(40) EndMod(40)
38) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(38)
41) --> Electric Fence==> Acc(41) Acc(42) EndRdx(42) Immob(42) Immob(43) Immob(43)
44) --> Charged Armor==> DmgRes(44) DmgRes(45) DmgRes(45)
47) --> Power Sink==> Rechg(47) Rechg(48) Rechg(48) EndMod(48) EndMod(50) EndMod(50)
49) --> Group Fly==> EndRdx(49)
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01) --> Power Slide==> Empty(1)
01) --> Power Rush==> Empty(1)
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
01) --> Vigilance==> Empty(1)
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EPS of toggles (herobuilder uses end per tick so double) :

Snowstorm 0.19
Steamy Mist 0.19
Hurricane 0.16
Hover 0.1
Charged Armour 0.16
Total 0.8
End Recovery 2.49
Resulting End 1.69

Cost of chaining powers looks scarey but they are of long recharge and duration so thats time for end recovery plus i have powersink every 45 secs (despite not keymashing at times i am actually contributing) but any end slots would have to go on the frequently used powers.

With power chain i get a -3.84 and if i 3 slotted all toggles id be looking at -3.44 but thats a lot of slots. Is defdebuff with players being acc'd up overkill? (i know it wont be with group fly but that was just for hamidon contribution).

Just wondering how this looks to any experienced stormies. I wanted something for PVE. On low level pugs some people after finding out they had invited a stormie say "right now we need an empath" before theyve even started playing or even bother to ask a stormie how could they play.

This build i think i could imo keep a balanced team alive with no extra help needed from a defense set against an AV with the right tacts and formation involved. A formation whereby i'd only have to heal the scrapper if they took taunt or the tanker if they took taunt most especially as thats 02 on one person who has so much extra res from me. My heals per sec i hope to match damage per sec with my +res and -tohit. Having to try and heal everyone at once by alot because they got pbaoe'd is something that kins can do, for me itll be impossible although the -tohit may mean people dont get hit but thats a luck thing.

My slotting order is pants atm because i think you prioritise as you go really but i have the flu and cant be bothered to worry about it as it is.

Does this look okay to any stormies? What maybe in potentially achieveable in game and whats practical maybe different but i do like potential. If i havent acc'd a power i'll be using aim on it.

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name: Hurricane Cindy
Level: 50
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Storm Summoning
Secondary: Electrical Blast
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01) --> O2 Boost==> Rechg(1) Rechg(3) Rechg(3) Heal(5) Heal(5) Heal(7)
01) --> Charged Bolts==> Acc(1) Acc(7) EndRdx(9)
02) --> Snow Storm==> EndRdx(2) EndRdx(11) Rechg(11)
04) --> Gale==> Acc(4) Acc(13) EndRdx(13) Rechg(15)
06) --> Steamy Mist==> DmgRes(6) DmgRes(15) DmgRes(17) EndRdx(17) Rechg(19) Rechg(45)
08) --> Freezing Rain==> Acc(8) Acc(9) EndRdx(19) Rechg(21) Rechg(21) Rechg(37)
10) --> Hover==> Fly(10) Fly(36)
12) --> Hurricane==> Rechg(12) Rechg(25) EndRdx(25) TH_DeBuf(27) TH_DeBuf(27) TH_DeBuf(29)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14) Fly(23)
16) --> Swift==> Fly(16)
18) --> Thunder Clap==> Acc(18) Acc(23) EndRdx(29)
20) --> Health==> Heal(20)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(31) EndMod(31)
24) --> Hasten==> Rechg(24) Rechg(31) Rechg(36)
26) --> Tornado==> Rechg(26) Rechg(33) Rechg(33) EndRdx(34) Dmg(34) Dmg(34)
28) --> Aim==> Rechg(28) Rechg(36) Rechg(42) TH_Buf(43)
30) --> Short Circuit==> Rechg(30) Rechg(37) Rechg(37) EndMod(39) EndMod(39) EndMod(39)
32) --> Lightning Storm==> EndRdx(32) Acc(33) Acc(40) Rechg(40) Dmg(40) Dmg(42)
35) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(35)
38) --> Tesla Cage==> Acc(38) Acc(43) EndRdx(43) Hold(45) Rechg(45)
41) --> Electric Fence==> Acc(41) Acc(42) EndRdx(46) Immob(46) Immob(46) Immob(48)
44) --> Charged Armor==> DmgRes(44)
47) --> Power Sink==> Rechg(47) Rechg(48) Rechg(48) EndMod(50) EndMod(50) EndMod(50)
49) --> Group Fly==> EndRdx(49)
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01) --> Power Slide==> Empty(1)
01) --> Power Rush==> Empty(1)
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
01) --> Vigilance==> Empty(1)
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I do think doms are viable and even if they werent i wouldnt turn around to one and say sorry but someone elses toon would be better. First come first served basis would have to stand and its up to the whole team to make things work.

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I do have an Empath - my 2nd highest toon on Defiant as a matter of fact, at level 32. Don't presume I'm pointing fingers, please.

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Well i do apologise, first i thought i knew some of ya toons and then never would of thought ya make an empath but in any case that would make ya a bit of a critic to others especially those spamming heal aura waiting for ppl to say things like zzz but because of their standpoint are sometimes held/slept themselves.

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/empaths are usually just really crappy Empaths, and even worse Controllers - from experience. Every now and again one will stun me into speechlessness by not being immensely dire.

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well they would be really crappy empaths and that cant be helped as for the rest MWV although those throwing an aoe immob on a mob thats not aggro controlled or herded need shooting .

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5) if people are missing much needed powers you should of spotted that before starting.

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Before starting what? Should I give everyone a template build to work from whenever I join a team, if it doesn't have with what I perceive to be the 'right' powers? Should I only invite people after they've given me their exact build? Even being the big ol' cynic that I am, I like to give people at least a few missions leeway before I decide whether or not to continue teaming with them. If I didn't team with anyone who was missing 'much needed powers', I'd be left teaming with about 13 people across 2 servers.

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Before starting the mission, i tend to check what people have atleast to get some idea of what i can do and cant do and if there is time even read badges. 6 debt badges means I better becareful around this guy at any level. I dont like defeat, heroes imo should look out for eachother and assist eachother.

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i dont need to sound so defensive as you've never teamed with mine.

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No, you don't. Then again, I don't know if I've teamed with you; I tend to avoid PuGs though, so probably not. From playing an empath (both in PvE and PvP now) I have pretty high standards of what I expect from them - Fort being cycled well to whom has most need/best use of it, CM being applied to those without mez protection in high-mez situations, and careful application of RAs with minimal disturbance to the pace of the team.

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I do agree with ya, i dont avoid PuGs and i rarely team with SG despite being a leader of some. I do find some of these closed door sgs nothing special. I think inbreeding of SG teams can lead to limitations as far as what you can and will learn from other people (although rare) but i do find some knowledge of some people in some so-called good SGs limited. My empath would of cm'd ya permanently, never likes to chat (everyone may as well be on ignore), and is never afk and if you played like an idiot i might of given ya fort (if no one less idiotic needs it) but normally its to tank and controller and anyone else in the ****. Due to what ya can and cant do as an empath people shouldnt split teams, shouldnt make blocked targets of themselves and if they are relying on buffs check for it as **** happens and stop to buff up before an AV. The amount of tanks in PuGs who are just "i can tank him so its okay" are horrendous, they jump into melee and so does everyone else who are unbuffed and its them that cant take the aoes or the cones (but thats PuGs for ya). No empath can provide the heal aura of a kin as there is only so much heal versus damage possible but that just means people may need to play a bit differently.

Sorry for minor derail.

Oh and the amount of times i have had to ask for fort with my tank before i go and get another group herded bugs me.

We were just comparing potential OVwyx.

Potential: as in possible in opposed to actual.

I hope ya get the jist now

One persons powers acting against another is probably often seen by everyone.

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The previous lvls were somehow still doable by going plain on the newspaper missions

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ouch thats got to be a boring way to level, if i solo i have todo the main arcs and get special EBs, some really hard ****, badges for people who simply like to team and level fast. i'd goto sleep on news mishes.

I read virtual as virtual, existing or resulting in essence or effect but not in actual fact.

Diabolique phases and buggers off, taunt duration of gauntlet and aura as small as they are, who will she remember? what key member will she go for next? Can all tanks keep up and keep hitting her?

Different AVs may have higher resist partially due to levels but then Nem Rex may have alot more due to leaderships and ignore you.

Rage crashes only affecting self was your gauntletting good enough?

You had to hibernate the chain damage was lucky and hurt, was gauntlet good?

OMG you have run out of end what then? Damn Neuron for being so end draining especially up close... oh and that sentinal ouch...

LVL 52 Giovanna Scaldi has who she wants to hit gauntletting her, the rest of the team up close as well.
Psychic Wail!! Total healthpoints worth of psionic damage to any tanker. Lights out team too.

You are either -rechgd, -acc, -end, placated, -tohit or feared, did you happen to pack the right defender for the job? Are they still standing, did they share the cone and aoe meant for just you and couldnt take it? did you get the right ftw team? or just happen to join one?

The best thing to not do is assume that what will be for one tank will be for all neither and taunt being autohit, requiring no end use, having very useful range, of great duration compared to all others makes you flexible.

Tanks dont tank without ample taunt duration, they also need to be not only about the cones, aoes, pbaoes of the team but of the enemy as well.

Ranged taunt is the most heroic power in the attack sets and is what defines you imo.

Thing is with me i dont look to pack a certain defender in a team to make up for my weaknesses. I dont think its fair to be fussy and i also prefer a no defeat to it all. Defeated team mate = -dps and to not care if someone gets hurt isnt the "if ya want to get to my friend ya have to come through me!" attitude.

I dont think somit is quite right with pets and oil slick, i had it in the past with a friends illusionist pets, the pets basically seem to see it as something and they shouldnt see it at all.

Also because of their dumb AI i dont think giving them the type of lack of agility Assault Rifle has is a good idea.

I think the pets should have good perception and do a tohit check for each attack and use the most available attack to effect the most foes with the most damage if they dont already, so they should have a various priority orders, on a single target its certain attacks come first and on multiple targets they may read is number of foes >= N and then use the most beneficial attack.

But i dont know enough about MMs, i have 4 but i just aint looked into them.

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you really do have to approach them with a certain flexibility, or you'll spend a lot of time looking at the floor from very close up, particularly with Blasters.

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So your suggesting we need to do that to calculate what AT and what powerset of what AT has the most potential damage output?

or did ya not get the jist of the communication?

Really the damage output type that most people need to worry about is on a ST say on an AV or in PVP. When it comes to multiple targets providing you hit over a certain amount you get good damage per end and however often you do it the better it gets.

I was looking at a claws scrapper build last night that was heading towards just that thing with multiple targets but i said that realistically i wouldnt get that type of damage output out and so would go for another persons suggestion which less slotted towards aoe dps and more end friendly.

I must get a toon past lvl 1...

The toggles are so low an end cost that slotting them make almost bog all difference to how many attack chains you get to an end bar, maybe you will get a couple of low end attacks out.

Invincible is ok if you have 10 foes in melee range of you but otherwhys moot so stack it with TH and CJ and love any shield or buff someone can give you.

Invulns dont resist end drain so any -end effect will make you suffer and with low def you would be easily subjected to them.

Footstomp is poor damage per end on a single target that i'd even hurl the boulder but footstomp is definately great on more than 1 and with this i am thinking in terms of damage per endurance whilst raged and especially with fury. Sometimes long action times of hurl work in your favour of feeling a fluid chain and granting time for end to recover perhaps partially why ss is considered "long haul" and maybe you wouldnt want to move from the foes upping your defence to single target to try to gauntlet a foe of someone.

Everytime rage finishes it removes 25% of your endurance bar and if you have it super charged to beyond perma you are overdoing it(but great for pvp).

Everytime hasten drops it removes 15% of your end bar so once in a while you could be "where the hell did 40% of my endurance suddenly go?" followed by detoggle and splat

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And I dont see many brutes with taunt. In fact, Ive seen only one ever.

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I dont make tanks, scrappers or brutes without it, i find it immensely useful and why should the rest of the team take any damage? why chance a key member? Why end up having to have a specific defense set for your specific needs to do a specific job against a specific AV because you decided against it? PVP and PVE its good to save a team mate.

Doms Rawk!!

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Storm always seems to scatter things all over

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They dont always have to and neither do energy blasters so i am guessing they do that to have fun even if it annoys people.

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So because it works 99,9% of the time it's [censored]?

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If i was to read that as 99.9% of the time for everyone, i'll find it highly optimistic.

Ok had 1 sec of more time to look at it (cos i am playing) and TBs at the end of the blasters attack chain???...thats not a sustainable damage power for an attack chain thats a peak damage power!

I think you'd need to have atleast a 10 min attack chain thats min/maxxed adding up all potential numbers able to hit too eek results out taking into account what you can get to an end bar, how long end rec takes and then decide who has most raw damage potential and then on who has most survivability to conduct so much damage before defeat. Tankers arent very threatening to foes because of their damage output but they maybe in terms of how much damage they can do before they fall but nah i never bother going into it.

i dont think thats the best BS attack chain anyway but i was just passing through as i am ingame.

Did you take into account AT modifiers?

Gauntlet and aura only will still be poo, due to AI, the AVs attacks and different team make ups. Taunt adds flexibility. If you dont have it, you cant guarantee aggro consolidation against any AV in any given situation with any given team versus any effect and so gauntlet and aura only will always be poo.

Castle also says "most of the fight" if thats good enough for you then well what can i say....for shame!!!

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over half the level 50 defenders on Union are empathy and a good proportion of the controllers

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Even more amazingly, of all the Empathy/* and */Empathy players that I've teamed with over the last 2 years or so, I can count on one hand the number who've actually made me glad they were on the team, and impressed me with their level of contribution.

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1) i do agree with you.
2) people who dont have an empath shouldnt point pointy forks (but i dont know if you have one or not.. but i think not).
3) people can make an empaths lifes impossible, especially those that dont have one and in some cases even those that do.
4) /empaths are controllers first and foremost who can easily have their action times making their reaction times look bad.
5) if people are missing much needed powers you should of spotted that before starting.
6) some people play badly with/without bad builds
7) in game knowledge takes time

When i see an empath not atleast trying to perma cm another defender/controller i get disgruntled and in some cases ABs on another defender/controller work exceptionally well too in the teams favour. I do wonder if some have team member hp bars up let alone reading the buffs...but i'd say ya have to be one to really know one.

What an empath isnt good at:

There are no debuffs from an empath so you get hit for more, more often and if the whole team is being hit you only have a small heal aura to actually heal everyone at once, its autohit IF your in range, it isnt good enough to react to the heaviest of damage and doesnt recharge well enough to react to the heaviest dot and so having to heal everyone all at once isnt good. You have the action time of buffs and heals and the recharge times working against you and what ya mainly got is single target buffs.
With some teams an empath being in the thick of it all is sometimes suicide as all aoes, cones and pbaoes of all types maybe are directed at you via someone else and being the one with no mezz protection and no bfs left and low hp and no resistance you can be put out of action. Ideally a get it all and take it all tank would be teamed with an empath with maybe also just the controller to fort or the scrappers or blappers depending because everything is done so that only one player gets hit really. Some quickfire defenders can be caught out trying to heal a blocked target or an out of range target when they could of been healing someone nearby but mainly i like to see buffs and i dont see them as often as i give them and some people dont allow time for them. When during spamming every type of heal and moving to people and/or avoiding stuff yourself does one give fort and cm to everyone at once?
RA for me is for when its actually needed and not cos its there and AB isnt necessarily for blasters who used Nova.
If a team dont shine sometimes its down to the team and if they do shine once again its down to the team. Alot can go on that works against an empath that most people dont see so its better to have one to know one but despite all that i still agree with you. A newb tanker can to a unknowledgeable team make a great empath look bad and visa versa but usually at the end of the day a team thats failed is a 'team' thats failed.

i dont need to sound so defensive as you've never teamed with mine.

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Also, as MaX says, once gauntlet is fixed (again) a non-taunt build will be perfectly viable with the only problem being mobs who stay at range/run away and there are ways around that

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Aura and gauntlet will be poo against AVs after the changes.

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08) --> Air Superiority==> Acc(8)

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Kudos on keeping spin in as multihits are where claws gains its dps really but id move the end slot from integration to air sup to keep spin slotted as is as its potentially great dpe anyway with numbers hit. Should you find your not using spin enough in every group i'd change a rechg for an end for more ST viability.

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12) --> Follow Up==> Rechg(12) Rechg(37) Acc(39)

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This power isnt that good dpe to itself due to the tohit buff id add dam to it but slots arent easy to find...

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18) --> Focus==> Dmg(18) Acc(21) Dmg(21) KB_Dist(34) EndRdx(50) Dmg(50)

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Id of chosen rechg over kb or range but i think its a kd power anyway but then staydown time i dont look for on sappers etc cos i am SR.

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26) --> Eviscerate==> Acc(26) Rechg(27) Dmg(27) Dmg(29) Rechg(29) EndRdx(31)

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A dam is equal to a recharge in terms of dps but the less you have to use it the more end you save, id 3 dam it unless you normally always more than 1 or 2 with it.

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32) --> Shockwave==> Rechg(32) Rechg(33) Acc(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(34) EndRdx(34)

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Thats alot of damage over time can work well, less awkward in teams to use than spin too but shockwave can actually help to get the most out of spin by sweeping. I like shockwave, dont take any alphas, alpha them instead.

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35) --> Revive==> Rechg(35) Rechg(36) Rechg(36)

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woah mama! dam slots found for follow up, being a scrapper with most melee damage you should get a good damage of it and i'd hate to need self res that much.

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38) --> Moment Of Glory==> Rechg(38) Rechg(39) Rechg(39) DmgRes(40) DefBuf(40) DefBuf(40)

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Rarely used power for most people so could be slots found again even if just 3 def and 1 res.

I find claws difficult to get the most potential damage out of, if i could multihit as much as i could with every attack all of the time with every team i could be happy in the knowledge i was getting great damage per end from the multihitters from this build. With regens its the end slotting you can save on whereas my sr its recharge. Enough slots in the powers is the main thing as you can change whats in them so thats the bit to get right.

Its late i maynt be 100% correct and id of played Fire Kittys builds quite happily due to what i as a player require because of what i am realistically capable of in teams, my love for AV bashing and that i do have the occasional pvp. But as an SR i know that anyone with experience is going to hit thru my 103% def the moment i click elude so i dont bother much, i might get 1 out of 2 eludes in a 10 min match worthwhile, MOG on a regen isnt unfair yet imo but ymmv and mine may do too one day.

I have to agree with everything you have just said OVWyx but as you may know (but i'd like to point out FAI) some people you can tell stuff to until your blue in the face but its not until they actually see the figures they become convinced and this is in a game where you dont if your really observent always need to get mathematical.
Maths is a good way to get across to some people especially those really trusting of what their closest or most experienced friend said who could be wrong. Some of the maths and charts i do see do make moot difference to my game.
But some people like our Dr Rock and the many on the american servers like Iakona and Arcanaville will go to great lengths to try to help and convince people and have done a good job.
I think many people would like to be able to achieve their best for themselves and for their team so any effort is great not to mention finding where the game isnt balanced.

I made an earth controller just to eventually get Winnie, i love that little ****.

I personally think ya mad!

The SO slots on the toggles can be worth 2 and a bit more attack chains to an end bar and alot of us slot toggles anyway for end because there is nowhere left to slot.

i will say its if ya find your build end heavy then look here for possible hope. 3 rechg and 3 dam is the new 6 dam slots and in pvp you may want to get as much dps from certain attacks as possible but with 2 acc in there to actually hit a def set well and then a rechg and then 3 dam or you may always be recieving alot of end buffs or your such a casual slow player who likes to chat through a mission that your end gets to recover anyway.

This is just to compare how many more attack chains you can get out of your build.

Ultimately you will have attack chains of choice with limits taking into account such things as action times and recharges. They can limit how much you can do within a build up duration etc. What you will need for what you base your build on doing changes everything.

Quickness is my rechg and i am hasted on top of that i could work it out but i dont think i need too but whilst hasted and due to action times of attacks and attack chain order a rechg in the slot could be a waste if not making too little difference anyway. But everyone needs to look at their own builds for their own plans.