New Dawn

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My sonic/sonic is 45 atm and if ya was to duel with the build on this post against me it would be like handing me the keys to your castle and expecting me to try and climb over the wall but at the end of the day i could of shown how id of kited ya.

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Well, yes. You'd either beat me or it'd be a draw. I certainly wouldn't get any kills. Why? Because I'm a support character. It's the same as saying "I'd totally beat that empath who has no attacks"; essentially a pointless statement. You wouldn't ever be in a one on one situation with that build, so why make such a big issue of it?

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It wasnt about the kills, its about making you ineffective through sonic cage before ya made me.

I'd have to squishie hunt ya for the sake of my team in a pvp zone and put ya out of action basically cos ya would be a pain.

And to be insightful as i think i need to be with people maybe taking what i say the wrong way this is what all i think it would take:

06) --> Sonic Cage==> Rechg(6) Rechg(7) Acc(7) Acc(9) Range(9) Range(11)

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The fix in Healing Flames made me pretty enjoying my tanker again. You can heal yourself about every 20 sec (with hasten + 3slot recharge) for a awsome 50ish%. Downside.. get -slow/-recharge and you are doomed.

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The downside was always there but with all the other secondary effects to factor into your build it helps. Its a quick fix imo. It makes what _castle_ said about making good xp in DA that much more achieveable by people when they solo as it was imo tight and to me ya had to be a bit selective on the groups. So where ya had say a -30% recharge debuff its now countered by this +30% rechg buff. I think the rechg has gone from 60secs to 40secs iirc.

I solo at unyielding with my firetanky and herd 10 arrest 10 with it using my aoes (fire melee) to get good damage per end and if i am in trouble i buy time by moving to a second herdpoint but generally i find it quicker and economical endurancewise to herd. (I do wonder why i need a team apart from frustrating me with me having to repeat requests that could be beneficial to the team).

To try to help ya here is me quoting me from the scrapper section:

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I think from what i have read (but what i have read hasnt had me thinking "Right! i am 100% sure what the poster is talking about!" admittedly but i think npcs tohit are now 50% and so defense has a 45% cap because 5% is minimum amount of tohit you can leave an npc with.
I think npcs tohit no longer scales cos if it did 45% wouldnt really be a soft cap would it? (This is the only game i have ever really played so i dont know the terminologies such as soft cap that could of come from other games) but anyway mathematically thats MinMax(total tohit - total defense) which is one part of the tohit calculation, applied after this part is the accuracy part and then MinMax again.

I think that for def scaleability they made the npcs all become set at 50% tohit (pre i7 they were higher and rank and level modifiable) and made the accuracy rank and level modifiable instead.

I could be wrong, usually i find posts in general assuming people already knew alot of stuff and vague to say the least especially as my english isnt my strongpoint.

I take the tohit formula to be like this now and i aint that mathematical seeing as i left it at high school.

{[(Total Tohit - Total Def) =>5 or =<95] * (Total Accuracy)} =>5 or =<95 = Hit chance

So if i had 55% tohit and the player had 101.5 def and i had 2 acc SOs in an attack my chance of hitting with that attack look to be:

{[(55% - 101.5%) =>5 or =<95] * (166.66%)} =>5 or =<95 = Hit chance.

5% * 166.66% =>5 or =<95 = Hit chance

5% * 166.66% =>5 or =<95 = 8.3%

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I dunno if i'll get corrected and itll be nice if i did cos then in further posts i can help ppl with greater accuracy but from it all you only need 45% def to reach the soft def cap which is the only def cap to think of for pve.

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Who's your pvp toon seeing you're not a known pvper

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Your right i am not a pvper, doesnt mean i dont go into pvp zones or do abit tho, base raids i like alot which are often more cramped than arena matches.

My empath jaqi has ss and and tp and basically is nippy in the pvp zones. I dont mind pvp zones neither. I do my tp and buff/heal with her and she has been squishie hunted for it but that was time ago.

Normally i dont ever reply to pvp posts but if ya check no one replied to Xanthus's post after a whole day and i thought i'd be nice and suggest somit.

Suggestions dont = must takes.
And what I'll have dont = what you should have
and pvp doesnt always = in the arena

I say all that cos i think things were leading somewhere else in other peoples minds.

Oh and i dont serious pvp cos itll mess with my concept toons pve builds, plus if i do it is heroes versus villains that i am more okay with.

@Xanthus,

I said:

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I think my sonic/sonic corrupter should discretely tp nearby and cage him and discretely disappear for a bit and rinse repeat or atleast while phase isnt on with a stalker mate keeping tabs on his movement.

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him meaning you, mainly pvp zones but some arena maps too

You said:

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Also Shannon, you're welcome to try.

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I said:

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@Xanthus i am in no doubt my sonic sonic corrupter would have the upper hand if i pvp respec'd her and we had a duel. Range can be better than recharge.

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Because I'd need to respec her, not all arena maps are as small as the monkey fight club and with your build in this post you'd want that ideally. Why? What i am getting at is with this build in this post i'd have the advantage of range to sonic cage you before you can me on the bigger maps (especially pvp zones which was what i was thinking of really), plus multidirectional movement and i'd stealth it. Effectively kiting you. No amount of travel speed is going to beat range and surprise.


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If I was to build a duel build with Decibellion it wouldn't look like this at all. This build is team support. I'd have more, and better, attacks like Shout and so on. If you want a fight against my duel build on Test though, you're more than welcome to it. What level is your sonic corruptor?

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My sonic/sonic is 45 atm and if ya was to duel with the build on this post against me it would be like handing me the keys to your castle and expecting me to try and climb over the wall but at the end of the day i could of shown how id of kited ya.

Therefore for duel purposes you would need a different build. If i was 50 you would largely have the same weaknesses. You'd be less damaging but would have better debuffs and i'd be more damaging with weaker debuffs and we both could be sonic caging and in an out of phase shift to a stalemate, but additionally i'd have a pet and you can have your telekinesis.

However, when i get to 50 ill pvp ya on test with whatever sonic/sonic build.

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He wont be blasting on an arena map much no, defenders contribute little, as for arena maps it makes no difference, i still think tp is better, range and unidirectional movement to blocked places is such a powerful tool, i wouldnt be without a second travel power tho and so i am not, but with tp ppl dont have to see the actual direction you disappear off to and i manage to dance around the enemy with tp buff tp debuff quite well with strength of wills in the pocket.

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Have you ever fought in the arena without a defender Shannon? To say defenders contribute little is a joke imo. TP is good for one thing, if you get web naded, thats it.Trying to buff your team with TP as a travel power would be pretty laughable. As for the build Xan thats pretty much what i'd take, and the slotting looks fine.

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Have done and used tp going around an arena map buffing people, i think i have already said all this plus i dont just have tp tho and it worked well ty.

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Arena is very different to Zone. TP's all fine and dandy in a biiiiiiig map where you don't want to be anyway fast or have a chance in hell of avoiding incoming damage (I'd like to see you TP around the Troll Cave map well enough to avoid a good team) but in a smaller map it's even stupider. For a start it's harder to navigate quickly as said, which makes it less effectual than SS/SJ combo in combat and it's End use per travel distance is pretty poor in comparison. It's also slot heavy.

The Recharge's in the attacks are to stack -Resistance, he can completely negate something like Granite Armour single handedly and turn a Stone Tank into an easy kill for the team he's on. As for EPS, you've got to remember that it's a support build, he won't be throwing out blasts most of the time like a Blaster because of the poor damage and that Sonic roots like a [censored]. If he gets suppresed he's an easier kill.

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He wont be blasting on an arena map much no, defenders contribute little, as for arena maps it makes no difference, i still think tp is better, range and unidirectional movement to blocked places is such a powerful tool, i wouldnt be without a second travel power tho and so i am not, but with tp ppl dont have to see the actual direction you disappear off to and i manage to dance around the enemy with tp buff tp debuff quite well with strength of wills in the pocket.

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Ribosome's take care of the recovery impact of having so many toggles, and the Ally Buffs are dropped every 4 minutes so that End use isn't much of a factor unless in an 8 man and a CAB will sort that fine, plus in a team that size you'll always have +Rec buffs flying around, or should. With this build he does not End out unless being continuously hit by something like Transference, and even then as long as he keeps his End at about 55% it won't be enough to drop everything.

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In big teams he then should be able to have +recharge buffs too by your logic.

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As for Screech, it's a build for fighting at 50 and thare are much more usefull (in terms of team support and self prservation) powers to take in comparison before 49. It's main use is to quickly stun someone so Acro/APP Shield/Travel's are no longer active and they have to burn a BF. If they suddenly get Mez'd it's easier for his team to pick up the kills.

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Most people would be cm'd, claritied, id, carrying bfs or strength of wills, end buffed, +recharged. Telekinesis is the one good power till an invuln runs at him apart from sonic cage.

Of course you cant have everything there is no win win, how you function with your team and how your team functions with you determines what you really need to do about the slotting, BUT given a choice between having an attack chain of 4.5 eps and a toggle level of 2 eps i am gonna first reduce the attack chain to 2.5 eps rather than just bring the toggles down to 1 eps, and be able to perma tp about (like i do) and out range people.

But lets look at a 3 recharged attack what are we getting here.

Shriek base recharge 3 secs, action time 1.33 secs and with rechg 1.52, and its near perma, difference between 3 rechg and 2 rechg is a m00t .18 secs on a poo damage power when you have other attacks that deal more, i am sorry but i'd rather save endurance on it for better pve or have range.

@Xanthus i am in no doubt my sonic sonic corrupter would have the upper hand if i pvp respec'd her and we had a duel. Range can be better than recharge.

I think my sonic/sonic corrupter should discretely tp nearby and cage him and discretely disappear for a bit and rinse repeat or atleast while phase isnt on with a stalker mate keeping tabs on his movement.

Your shields each require decimal figures of endurance per second except disruption field and if ya had it, repulsion field but your end recovery is more than enough to overcome these with stamina.

Your attack chain eps will be more likely more than what stamina and base end recovery can overcome.

My sonic/sonic could have repulsion, dispersion and disruption going at the same time as attacking thats why she needs stamina.

Hasten for amplify and cagey goodness is fine but with the amount of rechg in your other powers and practicality of use of the other powers with movement and action times i dont see the need, i dont see the need for all that recharge in all of them.

Id have tp for concept reasons just like phase shift i think for concept thats great i will be getting that at 49 but in zones i might rather tp about than be easily followed by squishie hunting people waiting for phase shift to run out.

All defenders in teams should be a pain for the opposition and this one is, so id expect to be squishie hunted.

I cant think why ya left scream so late.

I think ya over rechgd on some powers and perhaps end reds should go in. I find sonic/sonic rather draining, I couldnt not have stamina, /dark armour without stamina yes! sonic no! and i cant see the need for haste or ss. Id be a tper with tp foe. Sonic siphon wont stack so be careful not to waste it on the same people during a period.

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the second the alpha has passed they pounce and they completely ignore me using the "ready" button. I'm finding this very annoying as if people take agro or die i still feel responsible even if it was through thier own error.

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I dont like to team with people with all the prowess of a starving rabied fox in a chicken coup and have absolutely no need to. If the fight resembled more of a chaotic **** and pillage of a village than a round up and arrest then i am not interested in being in the team. On villains its acceptable but on heroes i find it ugly. Itll be nice to have the healthbars extended so things look like they always have 5% hp left although defeated.

Consolidate aggro before the team attacks.

If i stuck a build up for people to look at id of wrote in Acc/Dam(HO) where id of had NucleExp. Juts to make it easier to look at and once you have HOs to this degree any build is going to be efficient possibly upto the point of a few powers having upto 12 SOs.

I had to be quick cos i gotta go to work.

Thats alot of def in hide for a pve only build, i dont know how much -def there is villainside but it looks "to me" like there is more -res if anything with sonic longbow and excluding newspaper missions. So hide with 1 slot should be fine i'd of thought.

Npc to hit is 50% your def at 45% leaves the npc tohit at its floor of 5% and so thats why 45% is soft cap, but for pvp its ok.

I'd move an end slot from danger sense to assassins blade, the more AS strikes to an end bar the better.

DA can miss, if it misses its then but risks are either something you feel okay about or you dont.

I like the passives for the resists as well as the fact they stack with my toggles and cost me nothing in endurance.

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One thing bothers me about your reply though - Why does your comment about my primary-focused tanker (in a post about primary-focused defenders) sound so negative in the context you mention it? Especially with you saying comments like "I dont see nothing wrong with a pacifistic type of character. Its a nice option." and "People have a right to build a toon that conceptually suits them and no one has a right to judge it." earlier in the thread.

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If you had stuck an emoticon on the "here is how to make a whatyamaycallit"

Then i wouldnt of brought it up.

Fact is, without the emoticon, i took ya post as somit more serious and a bit hypocritical.

I dont actually see nothing wrong with anyone who focusses hard on their primary objectives.

A defender with fingers on the buzzer or a tank able to take more than necessary and be upstanding throughout the duration are fine to me.

A defeated team mate is -dps in itself and playing so that others can easily be defeated is wreckless and unheroic and that heroside i dont like.

Pacifist toons are great, we cant all be into the violent part of the game.

I kinda like my empath in pvp, she doesnt have leaderships (and never had) but she has tp and ss to get around with, with strength of wills she would be a job for any squishie hunter to catch and while they are chasing me i could fly-by buff people. I never took ldrships cos she is more of a zonal pvp toon in which case she may not be able to stick around the team anyway for more than the briefest of moments with squishie hunters.

My controller being more of an active defending toon that can deal with many types of people could afford leaderships, however i recently respec'd them out as base raids arent happening as much as i thought (she is more my base raid toon) but after some pve is out of the way i might have them back especially because conceptually it suits her.

In some teams ldrships will be a waste over secondaries and in some teams it wont be, especially if your dealing with the more extreme plus levels in which case your chance and time to contribute to the damage side may not even SAFELY be there (but maybe help finish up like i normally do).

But ultimately you just cant respec in and out of builds at any stage or have one build for pvp and one build for pve.

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01) --> O2 Boost==> Rechg(1) Rechg(3) Rechg(3) Heal(5) Heal(5) EndRdx(7)

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grr. needs to be a heal. if end is a prob ill take slots from charged armour.

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You're all of course playing your Empaths all wrong

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Then promptly..chucks a poorly min/maxxed build in peoples faces...and has a tank that has/had next to no attacks..

You play an empath however you wish, some people will love ya for it and some people wont. There is no International Standard but i like the idea of empathy side coming before the blasting and with some teams against certain sized mobs there will be next to no opportunity to blast, not without losing someone, having someone say zzz (thats their dps dropped and so i hope your tickle was worth it). Usually where i can blast i'd rather slap in a hold first, it may free up more time for me to use blasts or even better use telekinesis but having attacks with secondary effects are whats more beneficial to the team ime. A -fly can help keep peoples dps up by bringing the AV down or stunners, an immob can help make an AV get kited sooner and kiting is good for you because at the end of the day your better of as a single target healer in the face of an AV, trying to heal everyone at once who are near dead from an aoe whilst under some effect yourself and with 1 lifepoint isnt good.

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It's been proven "pure empaths" are sub-optimal

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Where? on whose team? doing what?

I dont actually give a hoot about optimalism at the end of the day.

Nobody is working for anybody.

People do like to have fun and people have the freedom of choice, relax at the end of the day and socialise.

This is not a job.

Your putting peoples choice of the type of character they may want down.

I dont think there is actually a "pure", i've never used the word, i used to have full empathy in my search comment. My empath has controls, thats active defense from psychic mastery and other than that 3 attacks.

I havent called you a name except maybe "Lexce" but i did say i thought you were being stupid and you was.

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Argue as much as you want adding 7,5% final damage to 5 players is the same as doing 130% damage, it won't make it true.

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Where do ya get your figures from?

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We all know base raids are the bomb and everyone's doing it, but assault isn't that great. Not to mention balanced builds can have assault/tactics too.

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Not one of my toons has room for leaderships really but for PVP its there and i cant respec everytime i want to do pve and on my TA it stacks. The concept that i have given to my defenders are to defend. If someone wants to play a superman or spiderman with their empath they can try.

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and if you really want rez (lol)

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You make an empath and see if no one asks for res. See if you get kicked from teams because you dont have it, you probably wont but some people will be thinking "why havent you got res?". See if anyone appreciates the fact that your attack chain came before whether or not they got debt, the action times of your attacks plus your retargetting and then healing of someone in trouble may be too late. Thing is people join a team, they may not know what to expect, people dont always play technically correct and many people may find someone with grant invis handy.

If your the only empath in a team going up to an AV and the approach and handling of it is wrong or should you lose the tank mid way people arent going to be loving the wait for the tank to come back from hospital whilst the AV is regenning or pounding the weaker members.

Most teams are sub optimum, most peoples builds are sub optimum and it sometimes may take a "in your opinion" sub optimum build to help sort it out. Alot of people may not even be playing with a real concern for other players (may? more like arent) and sometimes as an empath defender it pays for you not to draw attention to yourself as for one you debuff nothing thats coming at you, your heal aura is weak, you may not have mezz protection, people arent watching your 6 and at the end of the day a defeated defender is helping nobody.

In practise you do whatever your experience leads you into doing, if someone else does things differently thats because their experience led them there.

This is a quote from Blacksly:

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Generally, buffs aren't a problem. You should put them up before battle, and thus not have to worry about them once the battle is started.

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Doing that is stoppage time, stoppage time is -dps but at the sametime anyone going zzz in battle is -dps, and anyone defeated is -dps. So in an ongoing set of steamrolls keeping up buffs etc is all you may have time for, so when it comes to it people simply need their experience with their usual teams to count.

I often let off an attack rather than do nothing, its laughable but if i was a bubbler or most anyother type of defender id use those attacks more purely because i have ample time. Certain secondary powers are great for a defender to have due to secondary effects more than anything, some secondaries have more of the more useful ones than others but mileages will vary.

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Here is my Build for my Level 50 Empath.

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name:
Level: 50
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Empathy
Secondary: Dark Blast
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01) --> Healing Aura==> Rechg(1) Rechg(3) Rechg(3) Heal(5) Heal(5) Heal(7)
01) --> Dark Blast==> Acc(1)
02) --> Heal Other==> Rechg(2) Rechg(7) EndRdx(9) Heal(9) Heal(11) Heal(11)
04) --> Absorb Pain==> Rechg(4) Rechg(13) Rechg(13) Heal(15) Heal(15) Heal(42)
06) --> Hurdle==> Jump(6)
08) --> Combat Jumping==> EndRdx(8)
10) --> Clear Mind==> Rechg(10) Rechg(43) Rechg(46)
12) --> Fortitude==> Rechg(12) Rechg(17) DefBuf(17) DefBuf(19) TH_Buf(19) TH_Buf(21)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14) EndRdx(50)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16) Heal(43) Heal(43)
18) --> Recovery Aura==> Rechg(18) Rechg(21) Rechg(23) EndMod(23) EndMod(25) EndMod(25)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(27) EndMod(27)
22) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(22) EndRdx(29) EndRdx(29)
24) --> Resurrect==> Rechg(24) Rechg(31) Rechg(31)
26) --> Regeneration Aura==> Rechg(26) Rechg(31) Rechg(33) Heal(33) Heal(33) Heal(34)
28) --> Assault==> EndRdx(28) EndRdx(34) EndRdx(34)
30) --> Tactics==> EndRdx(30) EndRdx(36) EndRdx(36) TH_Buf(45) TH_Buf(46) TH_Buf(46)
32) --> Adrenalin Boost==> Rechg(32) Rechg(36) Rechg(37) Heal(37) Heal(37) EndMod(39)
35) --> Vengeance==> DefBuf(35) DefBuf(39) DefBuf(39) TH_Buf(40) TH_Buf(40) TH_Buf(40)
38) --> Grant Invisibility==> EndRdx(38)
41) --> Power Build Up==> Rechg(41) Rechg(42) Rechg(42)
44) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(44) Rechg(45) Rechg(45)
47) --> Total Focus==> Acc(47) Acc(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(48) Dmg(50) Rechg(50)
49) --> Swift==> Run(49)
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01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Vigilance==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
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To this build i would bear in mind recharge happens after the action time, end redux in combat jump removes 1/300th of an end bar in cost per second so id have anything but, even jump instead but most likely def to stack if i benefit from anything. Clearmind would have a range so that i am not having to stand within pbaoe range of all AVs etc and offers extra chance on good timing. 3 recharges are good if you like to do the whole team in the quickest succession. Fortitude has enough tohit already to go up against +5s and most people have the acc so i'd of 3 rechg 3 def for pve. I would of taken swift instead of health simply because i have heal aura thanks! Both RAs would have 1 end redux in them because it removes so much in cost (low end bar moments) and there is only so much good it does. 3rd end slot on any toggle is of little consequence. Id of taken any pbaoe over TF especially if it was raining arrows, cool power tho in PVP and haste brings RA's and ABs recharging about 40% quicker or 0.7 however ya want to look at it.

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+15 or whatever% enhanced damage (so assuming NO ONE in the team has Aim, Build Up, or any damage buff, and that our Emp doesn't even use fort, it'd be less than a 7,5% real increase... in reality, even less) = 2/3 of one blaster damage ?

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The damage buff across the team adds up. A defender with this on a typical team of say 1 tank, 2 scrappers, 2 blasters and 1 controller has given the team more than his base damage, with any time spent mainly healing and buffing he is infact keeping up with his part of the damage during the process and its not like he is gonna go and 6 slot all attacks asap. One person cant be good in the eyes of everyone. A defender may have sg commitments in pvp base raids etc res to taunt and placate is a good thing.

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By your maths, one lvl 1 kin would be roughly equal to 2 lvl 50 blasters then. Hey, I love kin as much as the next guy, but...

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I think your being stupid.

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Anyway. Tactics shouldn't be factored because almost everyone caps their acc on their own in PvE, and there's fort if some don't.

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Not fort for all and the +perception can be given to everyone with cm but again base raids. Accuracy rules. Cant turn around and say to someone respec in and out of builds pls.

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Some people can multitask, some can't, one shouldn't assume "no one can do it" because some people can't do it.

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I dont, i dislike the "i cant do it no one can!" approach as much as i dislike "i dont like it therefore its garbage".

Pure empaths are hardly gonna be quaking in their boots to anyone saying "Pure empaths are garbage" on the forums and i just think its trashtalk. Like any one persons opinion really matters.

People can have any concept they want and its finding the people theyll fit in with is what they have to do.

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To be honest, I don't understand your comment. Mine was to poke fun at the idea you'd NEED rez to recharge that fast if that guy was on your team.

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Well one of these is a good idea s it may seem insulting and none of us know if you know eachother ingame.

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Seriously, I could tweak his build and make a balanced defender that'd be more effective than him while using no attacks, if only because I'd add Hasten which helps Empathy a lot.

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Yeah i couldnt be without hasten but to each their own.

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24) --> Resurrect==> Rechg(24) Rechg(31) Rechg(31)

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This, here, is everything you need to know about "pure empaths".

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His empath doesnt lead the teams he is on and has no say in how much there is to do or is needed in so little time. I'd of had an end slot in that!

Just because there are 3 recharges doesnt mean a thing Lexce its saving on downtime, this guy is playing his empath and not governing how other people play their toons as well.

No i dont actually although mine is one that has controls, say if one had leaderships then the buffs provided to the team outweigh the damage etc that the defender could of done themselves.

Additionally empaths have to often have the reactions of a saint and so in many teams put damage dealing to the back.

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I dont see nothing wrong with a pacifistic type of character. Its a nice option.

If ya think they are lazy, go nuts, be suicidal and give them some work to do.

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True, to each his own, you want to be a "pure" Empath, go for it, just don't expect me to keep you on a team for long.
(That said in lower levels going empathy heavy makes sense even in my book)

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People have a right to build a toon that conceptually suits them and no one has a right to judge it. I personally like team orientated players and the empath set is one of the most team orientated.

I personally dont appreciate a empath twiddling his thumbs waiting for someone to need a heal when he could be buffing.

As for one doing a quarter to a half the damage of a blaster lost in their attack chain whilst buffs and heals could be used and for the overall betterment of the team, then i am just not too keen.

The game is called "city of heroes" and not "city of thug minded damage dealers".