New Dawn

The single issue I have right now is that a Brute has more aggro generation on a Single Target than a Tanker. This is like for 0.5% of the game a potential problem.

If they added an extra single target gauntlet to Tankers attacks, on top of the aoe gauntlet. The problem might be solved.

Taking point; I as a Brute might like some of the alpha for Fury. As soon as the alpha is done, a Tanker present could be nice to attract succeeding aggro. I as a Defender type may feel it better for the team if I flyby tankmaged a group for a Tanker like character to intercept. As a Controller type I might take point to mitigate an alpha before there is one. List goes on.

There is another thread for this though.

Stygian Circle is what can provide you with the much needed endurance to maintain DPS.


Survivability is dependent on conditions, under the conditions where a Warshade would thrive using Stygian Circle, a PB could die. Under conditions where PBs survive, a Warshade could die.

Why make a Tanker when you have a Brute already? Well if someone has a Brute that can out Tank one of my Tanks versus all content I'd like to see it. The Developers of this game have no intention of making Tankers immortal, with a lower mortality line than Tankers, Brutes are certainly not.

I have an Electric Scrapper and a Willpower Scrapper, I don't try to turn them into the same thing. They survive by different means. If I did try to turn them into the same thing then I wouldn't be sitting here wondering why some people do (as near as damn it) the same thing with a peacebringer as they do a warshade. My peacebringer can do things for a team my warshade can't. Both aren't simply human form, enter group, damage group, go to next group.

THB Provoke = Frequency 4.678 Taunt duration remaining 27650
AIB Antagonize (Dwarf Hastened?) = Frequency 5.438 tdr 35000
Frequency is cast time + rechg time.

I am not seeing where AIBs is a second faster even with Incarnate on or Haste on. I realize AIB has more haste as it says so in Advanced Totals but Antagonize isn't slotted at all for recharge unlike yours THB so there will be some making up with the lack of rechg bonusing by way of rechg with your power itself.

First taunt with whats given AIB wins, but the moment you taunt again before AIB you win, being out of sync on taunt duration remaining alone you will play tennis, although you might not see that because the AV is caught up in a cast time.

Threat = Damage * Debuff Mod * AT Mod * AI Mod * Range Mod * (TauntDurationRemaining * 1,000)

Looking at your builds without being too precise as one wasn't there. I'll speculate a likelihood.

Threat = THB wins on damage done * ? * AIB wins on AT mod * ? * DRAW ON RANGE * YOU ALTERNATE

The more toggles you run, the more you represent yourself. In a test with Dark Armour Scrapper and my SR Scrapper what solely used Confront, me on Recluse, him on a the Red Gen, every time he soul drained with all his toggles on he drew aggro. Turning off the auras his threat was lowered and he didn't draw aggro especially notably so in the taking down of Recluse with which he was in melee range.

No one knows exactly how the formula will work for one the AI mod is completely unknown, the debuff mod could be anything between 1 and 2, and each attack or effect that is simultaneous by way of another power may add a formula which stacks which is why I prefer physically testing things to theory. If you had your toggles on then perhaps you would of been the greater threat.

I'd like to with my lvl 1 PB or WS on Protector come watch such a thing.

If AIB put down a datachunk I can measure things better, atm I upload his build and its bugged. If he does that I will put some maths down.

Put both of the builds up for me and I will look at whats going on. I do know that recharge times need to be added to the cast times to get frequency rates.

Do it in a PM if needed as ya know no matter what I won't post either.

Yeah then look at his recharge. You are able to spam more times to have more of an effort on taunt duration remaining wins.

The minimum to add to Nova is like 6 slots, 3 attacks are most important for a distinct advantage over human, add 2 to each of them. They could be useful slot mules for human form interests too. 115ft of range is like a minimum advantage. Nova for exemplaring and increased range.

Then with Dwarf, ideally Antagonize would be 6 slotted, it'll then be near on par with what Tanks and Brutes get, just slightly less threat and range really. Add 3 to the melee attacks as they're +S/L Def slot mules for human form too, 3 to the AoE, (2 off potential slot mules), perhaps 4 to the heal (again slot mules).

6 slots to Nova, 16 to Dwarf doesn't leave people with much but most of it is still buffing human form anyway and still can be whilst making Dwarf a worthwhile Tank form, and a Nova for exemplaring and increased range.

In doing so a high end build may not be sacrificising perma eclipse, but might lose out on a human form attack and its procs.

The results are to be expected, if you have a 6 slotted Provoke and AIB has a 1 slotted Antagonize, so it's not a properly fair example. AIB will have to 6 slot his Antagonize for a proper comparison which otomh I am fairly convinced it isn't. Then the winner of aggro has to be the winner in threat formulas, a different times, one of you will have the great taunt duration remaining. The magnitude in threat level between the two of you is just a small part of the threat formula when compared to taunt duration.

The whole Stone/Ice build is something I suppose you can't copy unless your Stone/Ice. The slotting in the build is some input on how to slot.

Make a build and we will look at it. There is like almost 0 interest in doing builds for people in them in their entirety.

PBs have superior Tanker like qualities. They're not meant to mirror eachother. If you gave Stygian Circle to PBs, PBs would waste Warshades in terms of DPS, because the heals and endurance could be there to keep it going. WS could be envious of PBs and PBs could be envious of WS. I see with peoples builds they'll have a WS and have a PB and they're practically trying to turn the PB into their WS. Why bother? Why have both? I am perfectly happy to find two characters with two different deals going wherever I can myself.

That's more like Flash unslotted. Least with Flash it effectively gives everyone something greater than weave, you don't have to softcap yourself and it could stack with manuevers as it actually does on mine. I effectively give people 15% defense.

I know its one more click, what I do in teams is act as a Scouting Defender, in that I would knowing that all debuffs are anchor free and worryless, shoot ahead and Flash Arrow the next grp just before I would expect a Tanker to enter it. As a Tanker myself, I like to get to the next grp and ready it early, last few mobs to mop up doesn't mean people have to be babysat with, so as a TA I tend to have a rough idea of when to shoot to the next lot.

Whoever that Tank might be he is definitely too slow.

That's false logic, but you're free to have it.

I didn't say a passive mezz protection, I said a Break Free power, which as you quoted it doesn't suggest a passive, you just click it like a Break Free. Each sentence in the second from bottom paragraph is a different idea, perhaps I should of seperated them.

Bare in mind, I am producing ideas for both types of Khelds for a more universal epic set a break free power would be far more useful to a Warshade but because it also clears away what Eclipse doesn't protect ypu from too like a BF would, its still viable. You imagine jumping into a mob and suddenly being confused, all them powers relying on enemy targets would just be useless.

Your third form makes Human form look weaker and the Human form attacks become skippable. That's my issue with your idea for now and why I came up with ideas that cross both types of Khelds thinking along a more universal vein.

Good, what I said was a digression, just to stipulate for no real reason but going further. I personally hate having other Tankers in the team. They will differ on experience, they will differ on what is the right or wrong mechanic, sometimes the simplest expectation of a fellow tanker doesn't come to light.

I ask myself why a Tanker nearer to a troubled player doesn't do anything. Why is a tanker is in my aura, why are we mixing auras? This just leads to a who has who confusion.

Why is it the other Tanker is bringing back another 17 mobs when it will take another 10s to get rid of the 17 we got? I know it'll lead to some loss and who has who confusion.

The list goes on and on, I often don't get to play my Tanks cos I won't share a team with a random one, as a result last night I ended up tanking a +2 to me Romulus AV with my Spines/Regen for an afk Tank who missed all the AV tanking throughout the TF. It went virtually perfectly, confront on Rom and my AoEs all over ambushers, it was great but it just adds to my hate for many people and their tanks, waste of space on a very good AT.