New Dawn

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We all know the penalties of Granite Armour, I presume, but lets list them just to be sure:
- Recharge Rate (-70%)
- Damage (-30%)
- Accuracy (-30%)

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Guess not but it dont matter much if people get things slightly out and other people put it right - everyone gets something wrong.

Game content doesnt have to be a problem to any tanker, primaries, secondaries, power pools and epics all can help handle a situation and then there is everyone else in the team. Each tank has enemies to which they have to be extra careful, but thats just it "careful". Different tanks outperform eachother in different ways against differing levels of different enemies so some are more challenging than others especially at certain level ranges where certain enemies are more common but thats a good thing cos some people play to be challenged, challenged as an individual or as a team. If the devs see lots of Ice/Fires levelling to 50 faster than anyone else theyd soon nerf em.

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my granite tank can easily take a whole team of dmg dealers, no trollers, no buffers and no healers through missions.

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Aoes on you will likely effect people in range of them but the point is true though, a stone tank can get around fast and can keep aggro built and played right with a decent team. Blasters can be part controllery, part debuff or have even picked up aid self or aid other and all. Its not the fact that a tanker can not get dented that matters to me its the fact that others dont get dented and it only takes one person to be not so clever (not necessarily the tank) and things can go two jellies with a cherry on top, up.

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The numbers below are all for a level 50 Brute.

Total Focus does 148.48 damage with a 20 second recharge.
Death Shroud does 8.34 damage every 2 seconds.

Over 20 seconds, Total Focus will do 148.48 damage and Death Shroud will do 83.4 damage.

However, Death Shroud is an AoE and a Brute is rarely fighting just individual enemies. Against 2 or more mobs, Death Shroud does more damage (against 2 mobs, 166.8 damage in 20 seconds).


Against a 5-mob spawn, Total Focus has a DPS of 7.424 and Death Shroud has a DPS of 20.85.

Against a 3-mob spawn, Total Focus has a DPS of 7.424 and Death Shroud has a DPS of 12.51.

Against a 2-mob spawn, Total Focus has a DPS of 7.424 and Death Shroud has a DPS of 8.34.

So when soloing, Death Shroud will do between 12%-280% more damage than Total Focus.

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And in my brutes case anything less than 10 isnt worth getting out of bed for

/dark will be the better one in the most direct sense stacking your def bubbles but energy looks aesthetically closer to the bubbler powers. I personally dont solo defenders cos its slow as hell.

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Ice is combination of luck and control. That makes it skill based

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My ice tank is on my last tank to 50 list, lets get the skill based tanks to 50 first! Thats cos she has icepatch cos honestly the only skill required from a primary is: heal in time, know your aura for taunt duration and know your limits in terms of survivability with a given team and tank to make up for them and thats no different to any tank.

@Joshua, Thing with tanking +5s Joshua is they arent subjected to high levels of taunt duration, you can herd and then the icetank can aggro steal, be attacked more and do himself no favours. When double tanking its best if auras of tanks dont cusp but at those levels an icetank will get hit more and harder without the resistances to back it up. My icetank would usually be better off but then she has an icepatch.

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My money is currently on Fire/Elec. Arguments can go around and around on it all they like

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Pah, Elec/Fire is the BOMB - quite literally. PBAoE madness FTW every time for me

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No elec/ isnt very damaging and /fire isnt blasting and id give fire/fire the bomb value unless ya got time for a /dev to set up..

My problem with team members are entirely based upon not allowing me to fully taunt control before they start. I am aware that there are streaks of possible heavy hits that may reduce you to popping into hibernate. However as Unthing is with 10 secs its not that different to Rage which is also 10 secs. You can keep aggro over this (i not tried AVs tho with an Icetank but doubt it at certain stages of certain AVs especially with certain secondaries) but this just leads me to my pretty much only problem with team members in not allowing me to fully taunt control before they start. I dislike using Rage so I can also understand Spad with hibernate. However just after the first Alpha i'd expect the team to allow me to consolidate so if they see me go into hibernate they wouldnt of already started attacking and can wait a mo out of perception range.

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One of the first things you come across when people talk about Ice Tanks is that "defence is a luck-based protection". These people are usually those awfully pesimistic people for whom the glass is always half empty.

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I dont know anyone who says the Icetank is gimped so not sure on the half empty bit. Luck based it is like it or not.

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This week he's managed to solo the single spawned Envoy of Shadows arch-villain with the help of a warwolf.

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Then thats not exactly solo is it? or is it? Well whatever toon a warwolf is comparable too in dps and survivability could of been there.

NB: Get striga arcs to get warwolf for defender soloability.

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Dark/Sonic would be good too, but I expect it would take longer to mature from my experiences of the opposite Corrupter.

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Thatll be a good one to do i reckon.

Arcanaville:

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There is an interesting quirk to how this works now. In I7, the "floor" will no longer be 5% for all villains. In fact, even now the 5% tohit floor is before accuracy is factored in. In other words, even in I6, there are villains that are IMPOSSIBLE to floor to 5% (i.e. Gunslingers) because they have inherent accuracy. In I7, this will become more prevalent as higher level and higher rank critters lose tohit and gain accuracy. This means "normal" defenses will become more effective against higher level and higher ranked foes, but ultra-high defense like elude and MoG will actually become somewhat less effective.

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Gettin high def or having enemy tohit floored is less effective but still you'd want to do that surely.

Accuracy was increased on higher ranks and then thats level modified so i am sure.

Arcanaville:

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In I7, the tohit increases that higher rank and higher level villains currently get will be replaced with accuracy increases. This will act to make defense just as effective against higher ranked and higher level foes as even level minions - which is what defense is balanced around. Note: this does not mean higher rank or higher level foes will not hit any more often: they *will* hit more often, but in the same proportional way that they would hit players without any defense more often.

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With def scaleability its better to a certain point, when it came out i was informed that a +4 boss is even more likely to hit you so it kinda folds back on itself and then there is the streakbreaker.

I find jab so small a duration and aoe in gauntletting its my "well it occasionally disorients ". Most likely its possibly only effecting what my aura is anyway. Its great where your concern is tho, when doin +4, 2 acc or 1acc +foc acc is a necessity for me, for me the 3rd acc moved to taunt instead can do more. Taunt 2 rechg is up every 5 sec and is of the best duration you can get so why not build on it? My taunt is 2 rechg (hasted but haste aint on 4 ever) 2 taunt slots and 2 range slots (the range is a special thing for -fight duration to self and a "type of attack" minimiser, not really worth copying). But anyway taunt duration from taunt lasts longest, is autohit, isnt subject to acc and the more that lasts the better. I also try and settle in for 3-5 secs and pbaoe on a mob b4 ppl attack (but you usually get one who says "a millisecond ought to do it" before planting.

PvP auras are useless well most primary power taunts that is and gauntlets are subject to chance and then vary in duration but ultimately poo and taunt is the daddy!

So much so in my experience, i look at PVP scrappers and think "how could you not take taunt?" but i think we all have a different visualisation on things. I know i do in PVE. There is how i want to see somit done and there is how it gets done.

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Honest question here, what exactly do you mean when you say "tanking for an empath"?

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Empaths dont debuff the enemy with their primary and cant fort the entire team, the heal aura is small, and the other heals are subject to reaction and one person at a time. Absorb pain can also effect their own survivability. Not just the tank needs to factor this in but the whole team. As a tank you dont get time to say to someone (unless on TS) "careful!" or "dont do that!" and with some, why not.

For one example is the difference between a tank and a team of blappers around an AV. One team with a kin and one team with an empath. The kin makes the AV do less damage and gives a greater multihit heal. The empath changes nothing to an AVs damage output and gives off a smaller multihit heal.
Blappers do more Melee damage than a tank. If tank stands with them to contribute his damage then the aoes upon the tank are upon the blappers. Either the multihit heal aura matches the level of multihit damage or it doesnt. Kins debuffing the AV and having a greater heal aura have better chance at this. Empaths are stronger in the single target heal area and the tank can make an AV hit upon him away from the team, so the rest of the team dont even need healing and the empath has better chance of matching the damage with healing. Id much rather see a team of blappers blapping with a tank taunting than a tanker hitting an AV around a few defeated blappers who all do more damage than the tanker. In all this there is also not just damage to factor in but secondary effects as well.

@lady leprechaun,

Some tanks have a certain mindset, they are meant to prevent controllers, defenders and blasters from being mullered and for some scrappers too. They logged in to bodyguard and will dislike anyone whose making their job needlessly hard to impossible. Every power has a time and place where they are very good but for tanks sometimes more of a direction. Some tanks care MORE about whether a controller in the team gets debt more than the controller does, and it could be someone else making the defeat of that controller more possible. Its an attitude thing, also to some people as a tanker, its not satisfactory to simply complete something, its better to "PWN IT!". I remember people talking about Bumber Clot on Eden Trial for weeks (i was there ). But can you imagine say States TF being done at speed with no defeats? What tank wouldn't want bragging rights to that?..well not me being a stoic but more so a realist that it will take a whole team of top class players to achieve it. But i know more people who don't care about stuff like that cos its the fun involved that matters most come what may which is a shame for me .

There are also those tanks who feel they are great based upon the fact that they are still standing whilst the rest of the team are returning from hospital or they can go afk tanking an AV (no matter what will transpire)...I make no disguise of the fact i dont like this type!

Tankers with taunt have greater flexibility than those without and its a fact, without it being just in terms of pulling that foe of someone whose 70ft away.

You are potentially safer with a tanker with taunt than one without.

All of my tankers are alot more survivable with taunt than without.

As a squishie i will adapt my play to whatever tank is in the team.

People have the right to choose for themselves and you all have the right to choose to team with them or not.

Nofutures statement of gauntlet duration being 13.5 seconds base is meaningless with different types of mobs of different levels having different resistances in terms of duration to taunt plus subject to level modification. It also puts attacks all having the same duration and people accept them without testing them.

I like this but wish there was more:Circeus

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13) Duration and AoE for Gauntlet are hard coded but vary from power to power using the End costs and/or Levels (Tier) of the powers as a guideline, but not a hard and fast rule because there are exceptions. Example: Total Focus has a radius that is 50% larger than Energy Transfer.

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Duration and AoE are subject to either the end cost of a power or tier level of one or both the end costs and tier with some exceptions.

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I suggest both of you try Irradiate with equal slotting and compare it to Electron Haze (respec on the Training Room).

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I would do slightly more damage over time with electron haze but do less -def debuff than irradiate. I did have both in my build anyway but as you say RI is a good def debuff also but even so for the better extra def debuff and without kb it maybe worth swapping them around. Electron Haze to me is equivalent to 10 neutrino bolts at once (taking into account action time) but is potentially worth 20 neutrino bolts for a quarter the endurance. Irradiate hits 16 but is slightly less damaging and of greater recharge than Electron Haze and works out potentially less damaging over time.

Irradiate does have a very nice def debuff to it, that if i was a non def debuffing primary id especially benefit from it. RI i didnt slot for def debuff knowing i'd stack it later anyway with Irradiate and/or Haze.

The arc angle of Electron Haze is the same as buckshot and so i know i am very ok with that but a range would be beneficial.

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name: New Trina
Level: 50
Archetype: Defender
Primary: Radiation Emission
Secondary: Radiation Blast
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01) --> Radiant Aura==> Heal(1) Heal(5) Heal(5) EndRdx(23) Rechg(23)
01) --> Neutrino Bolt==> Range(1)
02) --> Radiation Infection==> TH_DeBuf(2) TH_DeBuf(3) TH_DeBuf(3) EndRdx(21)
04) --> Accelerate Metabolism==> Rechg(4) Rechg(7) Rechg(7) EndMod(9) EndMod(11) EndMod(11)
06) --> Enervating Field==> EndRdx(6) EndRdx(9)
08) --> Mutation==> Rechg(8)
10) --> Combat Jumping==> Jump(10)
12) --> Lingering Radiation==> Rechg(12) Rechg(13) Rechg(13) Acc(15) Acc(15)
14) --> Super Jump==> EndRdx(14)
16) --> Hasten==> Rechg(16) Rechg(17) Rechg(17)
18) --> Choking Cloud==> EndRdx(18) EndRdx(19) EndRdx(19)
20) --> Acrobatics==> EndRdx(20) EndRdx(21)
22) --> Irradiate==> Acc(22) EndRdx(43) Dmg(43) Dmg(46) Dmg(46)
24) --> Aim==> Rechg(24) Rechg(25) Rechg(25)
26) --> Fallout==> Dmg(26) Dmg(27) Dmg(27) TH_DeBuf(31) TH_DeBuf(31) TH_DeBuf(34)
28) --> Cosmic Burst==> Acc(28) EndRdx(29) Dmg(29) Dmg(37) Dmg(37)
30) --> Proton Volley==> Acc(30) EndRdx(31) Dmg(40) Dmg(42) Dmg(43)
32) --> EM Pulse==> Rechg(32) Rechg(33) Rechg(33) Acc(33) EndMod(34) EndMod(34)
35) --> Neutron Bomb==> Acc(35) EndRdx(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(37)
38) --> Atomic Blast==> Rechg(38) Rechg(39) Rechg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(40) Dmg(40)
41) --> Power Build Up==> Rechg(41) Rechg(42) Rechg(42)
44) --> Electron Haze==> Acc(44) EndRdx(45) Dmg(45) Dmg(45) Dmg(48) Range(48)easier to add range at this lvl
47) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(47) Rechg(48) Rechg(50)
49) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(49) DmgRes(50) DmgRes(50)
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01) --> Power Slide==> Empty(1)
01) --> Power Rush==> Empty(1)
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
01) --> Vigilance==> Empty(1)
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Is no stamina an issue do you think?

Irradiate or electron haze, tbh most people do get enough tohit and acc within their own builds so ppl do not worry about def debuffing. Ill change it though, i was expecting slightly more dps from electron haze due to better damage, recharge, less end cost and likelihood of no more than 10 targets anyway.

The Neutrino bolt i recognise if spammed is great dps on a ST but I just cant see myself doing that + wanna test it for cleaner pulls.

Ill do another build at the weekend.

Later on ingame you may find yaself on AV teams, the tank may not let you buff who you would prior to AV and proceed to the AV who although may not necessarily spank the tank but could lay alot of damage on the rest of the team for which heal aura etc doesnt keep up with the damage (empaths dont debuff and have a worse heal aura than a kins who incidently do debuff). The tank may turn around and say somit like "we need a kin or a rad" when in fact he just needs to know how to tank for an empath.
I know what you mean about healing one target being not as exciting although it does help make you more offendary and more efficient. Having said that a tank cant save people from cones and aoes etc and so its likely that you'd have to heal people anyway. I dont know anyone who has fun or is efficient laying on their backs being defeated. DPS is poor when people are defeated and its nice when through dynamics you can have enough heal for the level of incoming damage rather than "you kept no one upstanding therefore everyone thinks its you that's off your game and its kins ftw from now on".
I do see a different dynamic to each defender in order to help make the defender look as good as they should do. A team with just an Empath going up against anything shouldn't have to necessarily mean anyone getting wiped let alone a team wipe.
Some tanks in game, i am noticing, like the best build for themselves so they dont get defeated and then play in a way that doesnt prevent other people from being defeated and there are tanks who try to keep people from being defeated but would often have one kamikazi in the team who wants his kinda fun that starts on things a tad early.

I have hastened consume and have skipped stamina with it. Hastened consume for me is roughly every 67 secs to get a full end bar on its own if used on 3 or more which works out to be 1.49 eps and add that to base end recovery of 1.67 eps and its about 3.16 eps. Base end recovery + stamina is just 2.49 eps roughly. If worried about being tohit debuffed then build up helps and if -rechgd then buy yaself time somehow, you could just as easily be in a sticky situation with stamina anyway. I like to use consume before being too heavily tohit debuffed.

Alot of FTs i see finish up with haste,consume,stamina and conserve energy.

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RL is now taken up with many other things, and it's never been better

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Priorities in the right place!

I went into your linky and surprisingly i have seen ya drawings before ya know just never knew it was you and i especially love the Superman one! I didn't really get to know ya, although i have met ya ingame but i still wish you the very very best.

I am no pooter whizz but any "improved game stability" in an update is meaningless to me. I lag and the improved stability bit may be like "the game is 0.0000000001% improved for all i know after a change that'll make the game less stable anyway.

Dark/Dark is quite simply "damn sexy" on a brute!

I love mine. I have to near enough get her killed for the sake of Fury sometimes, then pop dark regen and off she goes!

Near Death Experiences ftw all the way and Soul Transfer is good just in case.

My money is currently on Fire/Elec. Arguments can go around and around on it all they like

If ya have gazumped the endurance down to 0 on a herded group then lightning field ticks of end drain could be beneficial. If your low on hp even more so but i wouldn't joke about its benefits until i find them. I just see elec/elecs being the most likely benefitters from it tbh tho atm, and thats if they have a build that does good end drain over time with hastened 3 rechg 3 end mod short circuit and powersink. Energy is more kb so.. XD so I personally wouldn't rush out to get it.

They shouldn't ever fix it. Why? cos its a meaningless time wasting fix in comparison to any other plus it probably wouldn't balance a damn thing with anything as it happens to both epic sets anyway.

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My current path for my Rad/Rad looks very offendary.
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01) --> Neutrino Bolt==> Range(1)


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Err... That's not anything remotely resembling an offender.

If you want to be just moderately offendery as a /Rad Defender you need a decently slotted Neutrino Bolt (1 Acc/3 Dam). It is to /Rad as RI & EF are to Rad/.

You should also seriously consider swapping Irradiate for Electron Haze, random knockback does not play nice with anchors.

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Neutrino bolt would take slots that are far more important elsewhere. I have to take neutrino bolt which strangely i dont object to at all and so slotted it with range as a pulling mechanism (low end = low base dam = low "hate") with the other attacks mostly giving me AoE dps or atleast better high burst.

I get Irraditate later, but with Electron Haze its not random kb as its a cone attack. My AR uses Buckshot (Cone KB) but would say sod ya if ya told her to get M30 grenade (AoE KB). I btw KB to walls but I think i used the calculator on that one to decide which of the 2 id get first. Its tricky to decide which is best cos kb can reposition but i think ill go with ya on it but the "Neutrino bolt is to /Rad as RI & EF are to Rad" bit i dont understand.

Am interested in debuff side mostly.

@Cynic

32) --> EM Pulse==> Acc(32) Hold(33) Hold(33) Hold(33) Rechg(34) Rechg(34)

there is a 22.5 sec mag 3 hold on this and i base a fight duration on 20 seconds, is it definately worth holds? EMP arrow on my trick archer id say yes but thats a different set entirely (no heal etc).