New Dawn
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Quote:There is not one form of mitigation for Tankers to lean on, one of the reasons why I suggest taunt is because taunt does do -range and that used with limiting AVs travel powers can seriously mess with an AVs DPS potential whilst never losing aggro.Originally Posted by Netphenix5
. Seems really unfair to defense-based sets like SR or Ice - not to mention Dark sets which would lose their main mitigation.
People tend to think in terms of damage, heals, resistances and defense. Like they were always the only thing to rely on. It's that experience in other games and belief that all games are meant to be essentially the same clones of eachother is whats wrong. Members of the playerbase just hold themselves back by not looking at everything on offer.
If I couldn't tank the LRSF with an SR scrapper for a lesser team then I would delete all my toons before closing my account. 9/10 the tools were available. -
The off-tank to me would usually be the Tanker with either the least experience or weakest to the enemy group faced as some Tanker types will face damage types better than others. When it comes to leap frogging, there is no off-tank, both are doing things jointly, one might be in need of a rescue more than the other but essentially they're doing the same thing acting like a tag team, same with playing tennis with an AV.
Edit: Esssentially for the most part offtanking is "play like a scrapper could". -
Quote:Originally Posted by LSK
Now the funny thing is my FA/fire tank has a KB prot of 12 and both states and BaB could not KB me, but sister put me on my butt a few times. Try to figure that one out.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Knockbac...ockback_Powers
Although, not all the figures are right on that list. Whoever does it should go down the list and double check them. -
To watch someone run in and Nuke KbAoE a spawn first thing only to have spread mobs hardly dented, outside of cone range, outside of small aoes like debuffs, anchors knocked over the edge of some balcony..
You'd think that the blaster, after seeing this effect would then allow the team to do what they did as it was more efficient, whilst minimising inefficiency and use the nuke as finisher...
As a Tanker one can herd and pull down a wall length where possible before the blaster gets to the front, mobs spread along a wall can be kbed to the wall.
But when said Nuking Blaster is up a Tankers butt, like it was the safest place to be, ready with that nuke it just better to run in without the aura on.
As someone with several energy blasts and four stormies, there is good kb and there is "who let the four year old at the keyboard?" kb. -
Sorry my heads not been with it. Haven't had a good night's sleep in days cos of my dog and barely played an all. Trying to do normal stuff but am just not being all there with it.
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Quote:I forgot to set and bonus check itOriginally Posted by BlackestNight
Miracle sets in the Heals don't get any Set bonus because I already maxed out the 2.5% Endurance off of Positron sets and the one Call to Arms. That's why I had them frankenslotted in the first place. I guess I could use the +Regen off of Numina's...?
, it was just making up for your endurance concern but it could be whatever set.
You already had enough rechg for Lightform, I went with utility. I am not trying to write something in stone as a whole with my suggestions.Quote:Originally Posted by BlackestNight
- Maneuvers was taken out and it was a LotG mule
Yes to go elsewhere,the loss in end rec was balanced elsewhere with a gain, suggestion was meant to offer alternative slotting or flexibilities for you to choose from.Quote:Originally Posted by BlackestNight
- Miracle +Recovery was removed from Heal(?)
Like I said I did forget to set and bonus check it, if I had and this is a first for me to forget I'd of changed it.Quote:Originally Posted by BlackestNight
- Slotting Dwarf Antagonize: the 5% Recharge is lost due to being capped, leaving Mez Resist, 10% Regen and a 2.5% Damage buff. For a power that doesn't need a whole lot to keep things aggro'd on you, seems like overkill for 10% Regen and 2.5% more damage. I took two slots out and am treating it as a pseudo-attack with the Psi-Proc. If Hasten isn't going, my Dwarf attack chain (lol) still has holes so getting the Proc every once in awhile can help do damage while also retaining aggro.
What I look for in taunt slotting and its an inpractise found thing tanking 54 AVs is a slotting that will give me a duration that is ten times the recharge and cast time to put it together.
When I replaced a power with the S/L shield that bonus could be without and so I frankenslotted to get more out of it. Then I took out that shield and didn't reset it back to how it was.Quote:Originally Posted by BlackestNight
-Call to Arms was 5-slotted for the 1.88% S/L resist bonus. Since Light Form is still 3% off from capping S/L, this saves me from taking another power to make up the difference. I can live with be 1% off the cap. I'd rather have the 2% S/L Resist than the 3 or so odd seconds shaved off from the Expedient Reinforcement IO in there. Damage and Endurance actually got worse when the Expedient Reinforcement was put in.
I'll look at things further and edit this post from here.
Seeing as you are set on -Res debuffing and the utility it had I only changed white dwarf strike I think, the acc/dam/end/rechg may as well be a dam/end. The reason I took out the -res debuffs is because normally in teams which you might be benefiting mobs die quick enough anyway. There is excess of damage usually. I tend to not rely on procs, maybe its because I am an engineer of sorts I like to rely on definites. Also the dwarf tp is end costly I dont know how often you use it, thats why I moved the debuff res to the WG to inner flight.
This is what my suggestion would of looked like if I set and bonus checked it. I'll leave my earlier error for show. I know I am a bit distracted by my dog atm he's 14 and not doing to good at mo
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In your single target attacks:
Check that from working out your attack chains, you aren't over recharging them.
Also think in terms of DPE and DPS, if not DPA. I notice you are trying to save endurance on the attacks at the expense of damage, well the more damage you do per attack the less attacks you have to use in the long run saving endurance. Damage is -fight duration too therefore damage is king.
Endurance procs go well in forms.
If a power is worth having its worth slotting it well unless its a mule. Then perhaps think Lightformed Dwarf, save slots where possible.
I took ya build, saw what like you said, you could of done but decided not too, kept what I think it is you are keen to do at the end of the day, balanced the dam per end differently and then added some utility.
You could have another Dwarf Kiting a grounded AV in the air, lowering the AVs DPS prospects and in doing so, making that DPS easier to match between the Dwarfs heals and your heals; or simply tank better yourself from a better antagonize or heal someone else worth saving. You could provide some use on a hami raid by getting scrappers in the air. I am not trying to offer the same advice as anyone else here. Utility and purpose is worth nothing if you don't feel like you'll ever need it. You may lack defense but atleast you might bring some flexibility. If the utility and purpose suggestions don't sit well then atleast look at the slotting.
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New Years Day evening and people were on a Hami Raid? I didn't know about it, must admit I am a bit "Oooh SWTOR" atm. It's probably the MMO that competes with this game for me.
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Most of the game isn't incarnate related but when it is I'd expect teamwork when being in a team. You can therefore with a softcapped to normal PVE expect to get by usually, perhaps carry some good insps for the moments of compromise and get by.
I'd rather softcap to all with one in melee and then perhaps save insps for when I am on some incarnate trial.
Last thing I want to do is come here and see my own build so I don't go heres mine. What I did do is take Rangles and then tamper with it to suit my preferences a bit more. I feel like there is so many right ways to go really as there is actually a good many slots to play with.
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Quote:My last years resolution was to stop drinking alcohol...Need a new one for this year. I think I might do some exercise "everyday" cos my abs have been slowly disappearing, see if I keep that up.Originally Posted by Soul Storm
I'm planning to see our new year in surrounded by my family and a little bit of alcohol! What about you guys?
Happy New Year! -
Quote:It does cost more in endurance but that to me is the price for having an immob. They wouldn't have a useless immob come at a price, they (the devs) don't throw in gimmicky powers to suck with, well maybe one now and then for later ideas to improve on but it is rare. The Snare as an immob, is a flexibility just like all powers but this one adds limits. AVs don't resist immobs too well, just as it is with sleeps. This has team support value. Ranged attacks are weaker than melee attacks, add to, in melee all attacks are an option, at range only attacks of suitable range are an option, a kited AV could therefore be more sustainable. Mobs around you to leech from that other team mates won't be attacking. Ideally a human warshade Tanker that can keep AoEs off of blappers could be produced but even so providing a kiting opportunity for another taunter when the other alternative would be to fail is an option.Originally Posted by Microcosm
*Anytime we use Eye, you could put in GravSnare as they have identical damage/activation.
Peacebringers do -Fly in their attacks, and its very good, you can keep AVs grounded whilst a PB kites aerially. Human form taunt or a Group Flied Dwarf.
-Fly is often better than an Immob in my book when an apex is found. -
I don't see enough leapfrogging with two tanks in team.
Usually, Tank A herds fast, Tank B gets to that herd, shares aura space, spawn dwindles to safe amount, Tank A preps next group.
Spawn dwindles to safe amount without Tank B, Tank B could of prepped next grp.
But Tank B, would need to feel safe, would team catch up and support in time? Tank A has left spawn early for a mop up, the time for the mop up would be equal to that time it takes Tank A to herd next grp, constant flow.
Tank B should of just leap frogged, and if needed find themselves rescued by Tank A.
You should find if done well when one or the other Tanks has sustained too much damage to begin next group, the one with the least health to regain to full will.
This alternation would of sped up when I Firetanked the entire Atta mish with no support (if there was a another tank) but even then there is a way I like to see things get done because what can happen is poor herding decisions.
So then do we not only live in the hope of a good frog, but a good herder too who has an idea on safe herdpoints offering range for all to attack outside of enemy perception + range for rangers to attack from from (two flagpoint fighting).
But most people only make 1 Tanker and even by 50 there is still tonnes to actually learn. I swear some people have more to learn post 50.
Sharing a team with another Tanker is usually never optimal, not because of what Tanks are but of what the player knows. -
I did an STF with a Tauntless Tanker on Justice.
It was a PUG, it went very well indeed. I was on a Blaster though, my only 50 on Justice (soon to be caught up by another Blaster).
Fortunately on Justice, there are good players to make a Tanker without taunt unnecessary, but in doing so they'll make the Tank unnecessary. That spot would be best replaced by someother Joe and despite the fact the team was capable, they would of preferred a Tanker with taunt, just to smoothen the edges, and boy there was edges.
What Tankers should be doing is offering efficiency. Tauntless Tankers have limits to how much efficiency they can offer any team make up. I expect Tankers to tank for any team make up. We all know there are limits versus X and quite frankly without taunt in a PuG it can mean you're allowing yourself to give an enemy everything he could possibly desire.
Darkest Night might be rather nice, it's certainly one of them alluring powers as it has a lot to offer and suffices to a point but meh as if I think that's an alternative. When I exemp I expect to exemp and still Tank for any team make up. There is not just redirection to handle its sometimes also about aoe placement. Sometimes you want to dictate to an AV what AoEs it can use, where and when. As a Tanker in general you can't save people from themselves when it comes to AoEs but sometimes you might actually have to.
If I was tanking Ghost Widow for a team of Blappers then as eggs will be eggs I'll be out to limit her pbaoes. -
Presence Pool Fears are alright if you are going about a character based on Fear. However the mobs can hit back when hit and so you have to becareful on how many you hit at once. Then there are the figures such as duration you slot to, ingame you might not see the result due to levels faced or resistances. For a Powerpool there is too much slot investment. Fear/End is a little high too to be desireable.
The only real solution (imo) to not upset anybody but perhaps the Programmer is to offer all the powers without prerequiring anyother within its pool.
It should be the exception to the rule. You want the fourth power first, have it. -
People are quicker to believe that the game is broke than they are to believe that they might actually suck at it.
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Question:
Is it fair to come out and tell people how to do everything for any team make up with any tanker or is it fair to let people have the chance that older players had at being able to discover things for themselves?
If someone newer to the game discovered something in 2 hours that took me 4 hours then they're a better/luckier person than I.
If every bit of info was laid out on a plate and it was all too easy for everyone people will leave the game.
I asked this question on the European Forums when I was tanking Lord Recluse unaided for over an hour in 2006.
People said then they would rather not know.
I have always been about trying to eliminate that thinking of "If I can't do it no one can" or "I actually don't know, it looks seriously impossible, therefore it is impossible".
I like the words "improbable yet plausible" myself. -
Quote:I read further up someone saying that these heroes can't be split. You can split them. What can be said perhaps is that's impractical to expect to do them 1 at a time. How about 2 or 3? So there is a split.Originally Posted by MisterD
If anything, it comes down to maths. 4 avs with 8% chance to hit you. Or 8 heroes, with 8% chance to hit you. Doesnt matter what happens..the 8 will hit you more.
STF AVs can be split into one by one. A Scrapper can be made to comfortably handle 2 at a time. A Brute, 4 at a time, oh so yes a Tank therefore is overkill.
Nobody should need a Tank, Tanks are there to smooth the ride by decreasing worries and increasing efficiency. -
Quote:It's actually doable using a SO build, doable without temps. This is all prior to incarnates too. If you think of getting by simply resorting to Aid self alone expect to die a lot. People who think that heals are needed are sitting duck type players. We had a total of 5 defeats between us throughout the whole thing. Aid Self is just a back up tool that won't help you out of every scrape.Originally Posted by kangaroo120y
Did you take Aid self on your SR? or rebirth, or barrier i guess for the +res, I really like my SR scrapper, but despite positional defenses in the 50's , regular content will sometimes wipe him out where my other scrappers wouldn't faulter. I tried to build for +regen but I found you just couldn't get enough regen to make a difference, so I took aid self, and in some situations, that doesn't work either.
Mind you, something I feel like i'm asking too much of some of my characters, my minimum is always x8 as I love mob maulin so thats usuaully a LOT of seperate attacks to fill up that 5% rule. Perhaps I should just keep on going with it and pick up rebirth. he is alpha'ed but i haven't gotten too much further than that
For an Ma/Sr, let me know what you think the best setup is and i'll see what kind of tweaking I need to do
MA/SR is scrapper section and I don't know if any of them have a single confront power between them. -
Quote:I can tank the STF with an SR scrapper for nobody but Scrappers and then I can probably tank the RSF with a Night Widow, for that Storm and Cold in the OPs team. Failure is usually an option for the limited.Originally Posted by kangaroo120y
This is why I am really refraining from making an SR tanker. Like others have mentioned, your team make up had a lot of +defense, but not a lot of anything else, time has some healing though, having no resistance or healing of your own really leaves you hanging. I have run into situations on my Sr Scrapper, where it didn't matter how many greens I popped, even with Elude running, that 'always 5% to hit no matter what' was enough to take him out more than once. SR is flawed in my opinion, even though it does do what it does do well, I put its issues more down to game mechanics than the set itself.
In that situaion though, it was really just bad luck.
Merry Christmas. -
It's odd to me, you've gone hell for leather on end rec, then not reduced the end costs on some attacks as far as you could.
After Kin Combats, could come an Acc/Dam/End from another set if the rechg looks good or an Acc/Dam/End/Rechg from another set.
Rechg might be playing some importance too but their is no haste, haste over time costs roughly the same as combat jump.
Your end rec is high, perhaps too high versus sacrifices elsewhere in the build. I personally like to have a good 2.5 eps more than my end drain. Procs account for 0.2 eps each to also factor in. Then other bonuses would be slotted for, end discounting would be more favourable in attacks, this paragraph is still ill order to how I would do it but I am thinking in reverse from where you are at now.
It would be easy to get this build to softcap S/L or atleast be one luck away from soft cap to all and have a strong dark regen recharging in less than 15s without the over compensating on end rec. -
Quote:Not trying to be argumentative but you can't be one shotted anymore. May seem that way but it's true. Secondly the Devs give people the tools to do something fror themselves about trying to never be disappointed again. Firstly, team effort, combination of tools solve a problem, secondly, power choices, combination of powers available to work with other peoples tools. Player error, player inexperience, players bullheaded ways of trying to achieve everything is usually the cause, the root and the actual hole.Originally Posted by kangaroo120y
The only thing I get dissapointed with is during some AV/GM fights, you can still be one shot, no matter what.
Tankers have a huge advantage over other sets, they can often take full advantage of other peoples skills. In doing that they're the ones that can often dictate the team dynamics. To know Tanking completely would be to know every power of every powerset, allies and enemies, then create opportunities. Using flexibilities and limiting.
Some people will fail at some hurdles and request a dev fix their problem for them. Some people will eventually fix their problems for themselves.
I have a hundred alts across all ATs, even 5 different VEATs, I'm experiencing many things but I mainly tank, I am completely at a loss to why there is this idea where Tankers need a major fix.
Merry Christmas. -
Not sure how to answer from not being sure about what your hoping for as a reply.
Although effects differ they do combine to layer survivability in roundabout ways. I have a rotation as a Trick Archer, which is the only Defender I do have a rotation on, I will -Tohit, then -Dam, -Rechg, then -Res thinking supportive/offensive but this is not something that is engrained in stone, when the team seems to not rely on some effects I might skip some.
Some of what you do can be used proactively. These things can be used between fights.
Some of it is reactive. You do it when you physically see a need.
Some of it is used in anticipation. If you feel that a power should be used to prevent what might happen because it does -dam then use it. If you didn't and someone died then you have something to learn by.
Time Crawl - think AVs, EBs, Bosses, can be taken later
Temporal Mending - versus slow and regen debuffs and heal, take asap, use prior to possible slows, react to heals.
Times Juncture - around you, if you stay back to proactively protect rangers against frontline breakers or go melee to protect melee (where you are more likely to be mezzed) take asap.
Temporal Selection - Best on DPSers, give it to someone when its recharged, preferably between fights, take asap.
Distortion Field - Typical Fight cycle every 25s? Get frequency down to 25s use just after Slowed Response, take asap.
Time Stop, AVs or targets which make a huge difference to what the team can contribute overall. Maybe a mezzer or end drainer. Can take later.
Farsight - Proactive buffing, keep it coming, take asap
Slowed Response - Typical Fight cycle every 25s? Get frequency down to 25s use just after tanker entry or mage with it take asap.
Chronoshift, you can anticipate its usefulness, perhaps coming upto a above average opponent. It's +rechg so especially worthy when teamed with other support characters so inclined to use it everytime its up and take asap. -
I'd dump Ice Sword for Hasten, then improve the dam buffs, have a single end slot in the slick, rack up the bonuses lost from what was in Ice Sword elsewhere if needed. 2 heals in Health, that in hp/s I'd live without so thats 2 slots elsewhere.
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Quote:It's irrelevent to quote me and reply.Originally Posted by mauk2
I've tanked this several times on my inv/ax tanker.
Your only threat on a inv/ax is psyche: When I'm clumping them up I either hit my rikti accolade or eat a couple purples, and be sure to call numina, then psyche. If I take a shot I'll fast eat a green after it, but capped hp's counts for a lot in this.
Against the other six I'm at 60+ defense and rarely have to worry. My biggest issue on a strong team is keeping enough taunts to stop the fast guy from runnin' all over the damn zone.
Have a tray, eat it, get the team to drop numina then psyche as fast as possible. Simple. -
A lot of Tankers may look at this and think "never tanked it", with so much on option "where do we start" or "there isn't enough information".
To cut things short, to say you didn't have enough support is an understatement. I am drooling over the stormie alone myself.
There will probably be more of a better response by Brutes who tank this day in, day out. Someone in the Brute section would of possibly ate, drank and slept this.
I will say, that before an STF, no matter what the team make up, even that doesn't require a Tanker, you should be able to remember the whole team, know what powers were on offer, even their smallest secondary effects and have a box of tricks up your sleeve for simply completing the damn thing ya attempting to do. Snowstorm + Hurricane would of offered a worst case scenario tactic for getting it done if it was me, but then ya prolly build an SR tank differently to me.