New Dawn

So any new enhancements, changes to the game, people already know that nothing is going to convince them off making another respec on a character they continue to play. I suppose stubbornness or fear of respecifying or alternative builds that they might never have to respec.

I only see the option of continuous improvement myself.

You don't seem to get it!


I have already stated that just because someone has taunt doesn't mean they will know what to do with it. You are making me repeat myself.

There are reasons to take Acrobatics even for Tankers, however usually someone does for the wrong reasons.


I'll make my point even more clearer.

NO ONE WITHOUT TAUNT WILL FIND THEMSELVES THE MOST CAPABLE TANKER IN THIS GAME.

And I'd be sure enough able out tank your Titan Weapon Tanker without breaking a sweat.

I went and did a quick powerset comparison comparing Scrapper Scorch, to Oil Slick. Now the average DPS of Scorch at base was 17.39. Oil Slick was just 1.38. 8 * 1.38 = 11.04 which is well under 17.39 but I am not exactly seeing what you are seeing.Oil Slick hits 16 so we take that as a potential and go 16*1.38 = 22.08 Factor in another cast time to light perhaps and you are bang on but then there is the area to do so and the ability to debuff all in trying to keep up with the Joneses.

The mission where you go into you memory of the future and defeat all them Echoes. My Trick Archer was much, much quicker at it than my best Scrapper. Each time I'd pull all the echoes into the tightest group possible then AoE the snot out of them. The time from when I start to AoE to the time I finished is fight duration. My TA did this amazingly fast, like wow, no way?! Was that it?

I think what might of not been so good for my Scrapper is in how tightly packed I needed to get them all. Scrappers are meant to lead in raw DPS, that is part and parcel of what they bring to the table however getting enough mobs into the space of a dump cart is key to achieving it for some primaries.

No such thing as a final respec unless you are leaving soon.

If I go back and read the patch notes, which takes a while, I'd be counting up all the reduced animation time changes as an actual change/pass.

Buffs or nerfs are both often good in one sense and bad in another sense. A pass doesn't have to mean a popular buff.

I got a Firetank which is one out of 3 or 4 firetanks XD what was never meant to come out of an AE fire farm, no knockback protection whatsoever or any regard to defense because she caps Fire and heals quick, the other week I went and pve'd her through that AV list you need for accolades, +3 Nightstar, stuff like that, having no KB protection was one thing but cos I had taunt I still did it better than I would of normally imagined infact. No KB prot is a cardinal sin to some people whilst its okay to not have taunt but in this case the reverse was more true.

I did that with the sentence before it but its subjective. Only you could do that for you.

The whole point in me having taunt is so everyone else can build what the hell they like and at the same time I have the best option for certain outcomes. It's a complete round and round win/win. I am late to reply cos I been playing other games

I am relieved by Brutes not tanking myself as they can cause more problems if they don't know what they're doing. Everyone can only deal with X amount/time. My motto was you pull it you tank it. If I am on a Brute then I have to tank if necessary otherwise keep things organized and on the Tankers terms whilst keeping fury up.


I don't know if people are getting the wrong vibe from me. I am not saying you need taunt to tank. I am not saying you need taunt to be a meatshield. I am saying Taunt adds flexibility and doesn't have to take any away. I've seen Tankers without taunt yet have something stupid like Acrobatics, now some min/maxxers won't do something as arguably bad as that but often there could be some slight tweak and an attack can be dropped for it.

What does annoy me, is when people are overly confident without taunt like, someone might say "For those of us who know what we are doing we don't need it". I've seen that in the past, then the same someone has new content and is like "OMG it can't be done" in another thread. If people want to not experiment with a power in order to save the world by any means, that's down to them, but don't act like it's better in general. The general opinion says otherwise.

I don't hold people to needing taunt. What I will maintain though is that generally you can be "potentially" better off with, than without. No accuracy check, great threat multiplier, range beats travel (and herd breaking), no endurance cost, you can position yourself tactfully, interestingly correct taunt:rechg:range ratio, it already had it all and then they give it -range and a damage proc to convince people. Overall teams are and I will keep saying potentially better off/more confident with a Tanker who has taunt. I can team with a tauntless Tanker with my Blaster, but usually my DPS needs to be lowered as a result which is detrimental. Often someone else on another AT, covers the hole that is open, which is cool about this game but I am with Bruce Lee on this, use no way as way and have no limitation as limitation. Tankers without taunt generally do one thing, run in, hit it, not all other classes are designed to support that versus everything. The TBAoE debuff toggles works reasonably well, mostly, particularly until you exemp below it. I'd want that and taunt. I have to say potentially, as I will endorse the power but you can't tell everyone what to do with it.

The Vital Strike is somewhat a healthy bonus. I would have to check this ingame.

I mention actually tanking for seven blasters and you're mentioning doing something with a defender. I have a different idea of prospects.

I am going to do that without incarnates, an SO'd build and no pets, using a Scrapper, my point is, a second build, a cheap build with taunt can have additional flexibility to "simply get pretty much all Tanking jobs done".

You're relying on you, being the blaster in the situation. Hard targets can react with anything at any time. Tank relies more on luck with less options.

That's not you relying on you to be the Tanker in that situation.

The team make up in my opinion dictates what a Tanker can do, not the other way around.

Can you take a tauntless Tanker up to the Inner circle for 7 blasters and survive with a tauntless SO'd Icetank?

I can think of how easily 8 blasters can deal with the inner circle without the Icetank.


You use the words "just because you" generally in a reply to me, you means me. Yes, anything pre incarnate, I would take over tanking with any Brute and yes I would do without healers, I don't use healers as a crutch nor fear tanking anything for any specific defender. Tauntless Tankers have limits, they're easily exposed ingame.

Tankers with taunt, well built whatever limits they might have in comparison isn't worth note at all.

Ultimately a Dev, statement from years ago going something along the lines of being better off with than without stands out and only needs to be the point worth making.

I am completely lost on the relevence here.

Two things to me, the fact that your blaster does some control means you are being more about what Blasters are actually about, and thats damage/support. They never were, all about damage from day one. On the website in the early days they are said to be range and support, in rl blasters provide can provide cover which we use as suppression which causes less damage. So from word go, blasters emulate such things, you can turn them into the AT they're not when that particular AT would be useful to others for making their aoes more efficient, be they debuffs or damage.

Secondly taunt isn't necessary until you are doing that one thing with a lack of somebody else who is necessary to make taunt unnecessary. I don't personally approve of that. You go into something you better bring the tools needed to get it done, because if you want something done then you are better off able to do it yourself.

There are 3 builds people can have, or atleast 2 builds. With an SO build I could go into RV, tank Ghost Widow, Scirroco and Mako together in melee past the 12mins unaided, now that's long enough for an all damage team to sort out, then I could go do Lord Recluse if you wanted and Black Scorpion. This says "second build doesn't have to be expensive".

I think otherwise, taunt is a requirement to be most flexible.

Do anything with any team is my motto, no exceptions, so when I give you an Icetank and 7 Blasters I expect you to tank the inner circle and live.

If you could define the best Tanker in the world what would it be capable of?

Most powers are optional. They all add some form of flexibility. Not just to what a character can do but sometimes what teams can do.

A single scrapper with Confront can go into an STF and rule out the need for a Tanker, then rule out the need for a Defender, Corrupter, Mastermind, Controller, Kheldian, Dominator....other scrappers, you get the picture, all at the same time. Near enough see it Mo'd with the right players.

Then go and tank on a Hami raid and then go show Anti Matter around his trial.

Confront added a lot of flexibility and survivability. Not by itself, but used with other powers you can certainly say that team make ups are without need this and need that.

A scrapper like that can do alot for practically "any team make up" really despite most people not seeing a scrapper as something that has any regard for a team.

Tankers are atleast meant to Tank, I don't know why some people choose to solo them constantly but again powers are optional and just because some Tanker took taunt doesn't mean they're going to excel with it at every level since 10.

I think rather than shy away from things and talk BBQ lets just hit it head on.

A tauntless Tanker, will have chosen his/her limitations. People will either be happier with them or they will not. I for one do not care what people have or who people choose to team with and the best Tanker in the world is not going to care what he/she teams with.