New Dawn

...when you are fighting a too-high level AV, rest of the team don't even get hit and you scream "go!" and tank till finish then leave without a scratch

[ QUOTE ]
Ok you said Invul/Ice so i stop right there.Ice as attack chain sucks badly. 1 high damage attack and 1 high DoT with a hold and thats it.Noone in his right mind would deliberately choose ice secondary on a tank to PvP

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the only question I will answer as I feel no need to reiterate anything else no matter how its perceived, edited etc. They should draw on account of neither one of them defeating the other. Ice's -rechg imo should kill the rechg a tad on Spines attacks lowering dps meaning the window of opportunity from having even hastened dullpain slowed to should be gone. This is based on SO slots, typical slotting only, in the days of the issue of when this post started. Looking back and not realising or knowing from first hand experience how effective that minus rechg actually is on the ice melee I reckon I was wrong to think an Invuln Ice would necessarily eventually get beat by a Spines Regen in a toe to toe fight. This was all ofc past the 10 min mark during which much in the way of insps would of been gone. As has been said already most people don't play past the first 10 mins. Some Tankers can be beaten by some scrappers eventually and I wouldn't go as far to say that no Tanker can be beat by a scrapper. However most PVP built Tankers should do alright. Aid self, fear powers etc can and do make huge differences.

[ QUOTE ]
LMAO so my empath gets beaten all the time beacuse i dont stand still and let you attack me. [censored] he's the biggest loser

[/ QUOTE ]

Your empath is likely to be ranged attacks anyway so kiting in a duel is alright. In team PVP your probably getting ganked atleast thats what usually happened when PVP pentads first came out.

No none of that is cheating and upon reflection I think an Invuln Ice would of drawn with a Spines regen beyond the 10 minute line toe to toe in those times as they both minus recharge the hell out of each other.

In those days people had SO builds mainly. Nowadays we are in a new issue. If I saw anyone in this issue picking on a Issue 3 Tanker build I'd think they were way too late. The times were the times.

In pentads much PVP done by Tanks consisted of one taunts and/or fears the other and the other taunts and/or fear thems back. That was a bygone era not worth bringing up.

I am levelling a Spines Regen, a pure Invuln on SOs will eventually take a fall against her unless they run away and if they are running away i'll put that down as "due to losing" even though I know tactical retreats are often common sense.

Typos do happen and I have edited.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If your running away, your being beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, jesus christ my ribs.. ache

[/ QUOTE ]

If your running away your being beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

ROFL, I'm so glad I rez'd this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you weren't running away against a scrapper its because you still had a chance of winning ain't it.

Its all build versus build though, a basic invuln build basically slotted 3 of this and 3 of that could eventually pop their clogs to a spines regen. Not that PVP tanks would have a basic build. I didn't see many outside of a taunt lock with another tanker tbh. No PVP Tanker designed for PVP shouldnt be beaten by any Scrapper in a duel and in a duel your not tanking, your scranking. No PVP Scranker should be beaten by a Scrapper in a duel .

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If your running away, your being beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, jesus christ my ribs.. ache

[/ QUOTE ]

If your running away your being beat.

[ QUOTE ]
This thread made me laugh so hard with PvE "mechanics" wizzards thinking they know PvP which is a whole different world.

Thanks for the read guys. Now all go roll an Ice/EM Fire/* Invul/* and no scrapper can touch you..ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

A Tanker tanks in PVE and Scranks in PVP and I have been quietly levelling a Spines Regen an all. An Invuln would have to nowadays no longer be SO slotted or take aid self. The -recharge effects of spines can eventually take their toll on an Invuln. When it was said no scrapper should be able to beat a Tanker I said:

Well depends on build vs build given enough time..

..and didn't envision Tankers running away a lot for their survival to count as good PVP. If your running away, your being beat.

[ QUOTE ]
My brute is usually the first one in but it have to be some one i like if i go out of my way to save them by taking the aggro away from them. he is no scrapper and no tank but a BRUTE a selfish killing machine that waits for nobody (and some times face plant because i went ahead with full Fury bar and the team resting ).
On a note. Some brutes i have met have been abel to fulfill a number of roles from the blue side. But expecting all brutes to tank is like expecting all defenders to heal

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, playing like a tank is optional and most certainly there are some foes that your better off skirting around whilst another brute perhaps even plays tank. Whoever does it could be dependent on the enemies in the mission and their damage type.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However you would easily see my Dominator at the front, having got my 1st debt badge at 25 on my domie I can say that I am a nutter who waits for no one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting, I play my Plants/Fire Dom the same way and didn't pick up the first debt badge until the late 30s. In fact, despite the fact that she doesn't have a self-heal, I'd consider her around third in the list of my villains most capable of crowd-control (which is essentially the root of tanking) in CoV, much moreso than my other Brutes, both in terms of alpha absorption and aggro-absorption. (<3 Creepers + SoC)

[/ QUOTE ]

But for combat jump, sj and acrobatics mine currently has nothing but plant/thorn powers. Getting the first secret arc doing all those ghost pirates and not out-levelling other arcs as she is my main story content toon took a lot of debt. Debt is most welcome.

If I continue levelling my Dark/Dark called Nether Eclipse I'd be tempted to provoke fear provoke fear. Provoke was mickey moused some time ago I believe cos of a type of exploit thats not acceptable for almost everyone to be able to have but that might of just made it less useful with the Presence Pool fears.

I do like this guide.

Jack ^^ above me is Invuln Fire iirc. I am Invuln/SS which is worse/more challenging in many ways and Fire/Fire but Jack has, I believe 1300 hours approx.

Rather than me do a build..

Tough hide is "overall" better than both Rel and Ren.

Getting RPD before Ren and Rel is probably overall more worth it due to more smash and lethal.

Weave is better than Tough Hide but for the end cost and Tough is better than RPD.

All AoEs providing you team tank are better than single targets for dps but thinking on constantly doing damage to groups rather than single targets.

I would of actually of taken taunt at 10 due to gauntlet being poo and attacks more easily missing in the lower levels but fire melee which I do have is rather good. I pretty much use taunt when my accuracy is floored by debuffs or to pull as I am too snobbish to have a blaster pull for me. But the more free people are from my commitment to support, the more free they are hopefully to support me right back the safer I feel....or should feel :s...but anyways I rely on team work.

I'd of been leaving Aid self very late despite how good Aid self is as I'd be able to keep a better eye on teams (i hate the action time, the relying, the hoping till more defense is had but some people are alright with it tho) and to also get better accustomed to different types of support out of increased necessity. Aid self comes fully home with Weave added to the build or when Tanking AVs or GMs but then with either weave or aid self in ya build so can almost any defender or controller if you set things up so that its easy for them too.

Anyways! I'd be a sucker for Combustion or Fire Sword Circle asap. Not only are they good aggro grabbers but very good dps against groups and makes things more fun (no debt until level 10 with combustion!) but until 10 your survivability as a tanker is roughly as good as a blaster unless ofc you slotted DP asap and got Haste at 6. The less time spent in a fight the less attacks are being thrown your way, so nothing wrong with dishing the damage, getting aggro is a way of being supportive and preventing players from being so overwhelmed that they are at the point within which they become unsupportive.

Your not doing badly on how to slot imo (I would of end slotted scorch rather than Invincible personally and end slotted boxing (if used) rather than a second on unyielding) but I thinks its best to feel your way up the levels and see how it goes as play-style changes everything.

If you don't get defeated from time to time then you simply haven't pushed yourself, pre ED we had everything but still aimed in the border lining of getting defeated in every mission. XP/time comes from the damage dealing, particularly within the big teams and usually from defeating of foes over time which are +2 to +3 rather than +4 all of the time.

I have prevented probs with caltrops b4 and had to use them alot thru out the mish especially as it was full of ambushes. Blinding powder might be good but i aint so sure.

My energy stalker can get repulse and a team full of MMs prolly wont complain

Tohit based on level.

+1 +5%
+2 +10%
+3 +15%
+4 +20%<---
+5 +25%

[ QUOTE ]
I found end a bit of an issue, pre 20. But also got annoyed at "wasting" powers on hower/swift/health...

Didn't make me feel more powerful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I am wondering whether or not you followed any of the build suggestions in this post XD The build suggestion I had for the OP was with his power choices. Sometimes its not about being powerful its just all about concept.

What these builds are, are just proposals and possibly none of them will become a final build but I am gonna look at how you build.

I think you over-estimate unyielding and invincibility for end use and under-estimate the attacks for end use but whether you use the attacks is another thing, some people never use boxing and some use it a lot. Using it al ot will cost endurance over time. I would have at least an end slot in any available space for slotting thats there, on an attack thats used before slotting unyielding or invincibility. Providing you actually connect with an attack the damage enhancement is the best enhancement. Nothing on a Tanker is worth 3 end redux's. Fire Melee players don't actually always need all their secondaries as far as attacks are concerned and the AoEs can also become viably near ST attacks with 1-2 end slot and stamina really. I like hasten on any tank its worth 2 recharge slots and only a 15% iirc every so often end crash.

The first build is closer to what I would do for one reason only. Taunt is at its earliest then and when slowed by quicksand or galaxies I like to have 'something' rather than 'someone' to sort it out. I also would rather pull than intercept. I could tank with all these builds and with less survivability.

If your gonna have fight pool always get weave before the REn and REl passives and 3 def slot SO weave.

[ QUOTE ]
Shedding aggro is great for your health, but your squishy partner, might not appreciate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah! Easy Miss.

I actually like this guide. I will say one thing in that in placating a foe you can have them turn on someone else thats only 5 hp from defeat so be careful on the outcome.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I especially hate those that think as though an empath is someone who just chases peoples sorry derriere's all over the place like a measely little sidekick who only heals....thats actually a lot of people

[/ QUOTE ]

I do that all the time on my empath, dont want anyone on the floor, not on my watch! Then again I do the same on my troller, scrapper, blaster, mastermind, tanker and defender. Run around trying to cover for everyone (except if someone aggroed a third mob, I'm probably gonna let that one slide)

I enjoy it, but it can be very tiresome.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I was new the game I used to enjoy it, basing a good empath on their reflexes etc that a lot of people do now even up to 50 but I know that the constant spamming of heals, darting from one area to another or even having to hover above people spamming heal aura doesn't have to happen. People can be buffed! But so many don't even wait for them and play as though that because the empath is in team they must automatically have fort on them and can run into a large group of +3 warwolves with their nrg blaster and nuke straight away.

The fact I took recall friend in the early stages was purely down to where other people chose to go, be and fall. One doesn't heal/cast cm etc thru walls. TP self gets you anywhere fast which is good when people are all over the place upstairs and downstairs which is why I have got it but the reason I have kept it is because despite being -flied, -slowed or immob'd (2 of which you cant use a BF for) I can move.

Some empaths are conceptually pacifistic with having mostly team buff powers etc and hardly any blasts and to be able to do that for conceptual reasons is one of the reasons I like this game but there is nothing wrong with having a blaster like empath neither, both should be able to do the same content with the same team make ups and get thru them just as well. My problem with some offenders is that they can be lost in their attack chains as though they forget they are a defender and fall into blaster mode.

There is no need for leaderships or powermastery on a empath, no need to take tp pool, no need to have leap pool in fact most powers to take should be taken out of concept really but sometimes we tend to take things due to how other people play.

Your empath sounds ideal to me so whilst you and this leader obviously disagree with each others ideas in play I am on your side!

You cant tarnish the whole of the Defiant player base with the same brush. There is a reason for so many SGs and little groups cos so many people aren't all that able to get on with each other.

The game is "round peg --> round hole" to me and the hardest part is being around players who don't assist each other, talk with each other, well basically ignore each other in terms of what characters each other has and what they can and cant do.

I especially hate those that think as though an empath is someone who just chases peoples sorry derriere's all over the place like a measely little sidekick who only heals....thats actually a lot of people

There is much more time spent playing at the top end of the game than the lower end. The trick is getting there. I enjoyed getting there though, before defense scale-ability I didn't have that scrapper-lock I occasionally get now and other people in the team had better chance to function together properly. If I get scrapper-lock now and take a risk by running into a group either first, elsewhere from teams or before anyones ready I often say "don't follow me" to not compromise others but sometimes I forget.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The game would either take an excessive amount of time to create with all the signature heroes required to achieve that or become a very short game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you say that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cannon fodder types are Id presume the minions that we have to fight on the way to the bosses, expendable people who are all of the same rank, with the same "Look at me I am in a gang!" dress code to slow us down, defeat us or whatever but in general the less important ranks and then we get to the boss types.

Bosses etc who maybe are worthy opponents depending on what character you happen to be playing. These worthy opponents tend to be named therefore called signature type characters who we wouldn't want to see all looking the same with a name change.

Each signature character is probably a days work or more and so in order to have the game the size it is, with the vast amount of foes to defeat, they aren't all that common. If there was more worthy opponents the game content would lack in other areas. But I am sure they can be made worthier if you either up your reputation, gimp your build (I pure build) and 8 man team it being on the more dangerous side of things whereby you always bare the biggest brunt you can get the challenges you need.

Each character has their strengths and weaknesses and basically the game is based around having each one atleast being able to defeat 3 super powered white coded minions who would simply be cannon fodder to some characters.

Ithink what happens is if you add a $$powexecname <insertpowername> to the line it could try to shield then select rather than select then shield but worth a try. Sorry for late reply MM forums are abit alien to me..

The game would either take an excessive amount of time to create with all the signature heroes required to achieve that or become a very short game.

Stone Melee has good control, nice high burst single target damage that can come early in levels, all pvp zones are fine to play in with it unlike other secondaries and it looks cool especially fault imo but then again i can prolly say somit positive about all the sets but for Mace. I dont find Mace disturbingly unbalanced but for most it has no real "wow" factor thats for sure. I wouldnt be wowed at Axe neither but that gets a bye cos of the sheer amount of people who simply buy a game just so that they can go about with an Axe butchering people.