New Dawn

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Anyway enough of this talk about Rage. We all seem to agree its a good thing, people are just arguing over maths now.

More important is the statement that they are changing some of the Mace AOE powers. Wild Speculation on what might change anyone ? (I just hope they change knockback to knockdown)

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Start a new thread for that pls so I can ask this in it:

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I feel weird about all these Mace changes, the numbers start to get far above Axe now. Dispite Axe has more control (KU/KD), damage(DPS)wise i feel weird about it.

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XD what numbers you looking at?

Thunderclap and Gale are what I would call least necessary or useful to a team. The rest for one reason or another (mainly AVs ) would stay.

From the elec half definitely Zapp is of low priority. Anything else is personal. Short circuit and Tesla are my 2 must haves.

Good work!

As said a very interesting style!

One could get 2 SOs level of accuracy instead of 2 IOs and increase the damage slightly nearer 3 SOs of damage by buying acc/dams of any set thats 'cheap'.

Mace, longer cast time than Mu but more secondary effects.

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I'm sorry. I'm gonna have to go with the consensus here and say that was easily the best player made video I've ever seen. Professional, intense and very atmospheric.

Carry on people!

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This!

And why ain't we playing characters that can use Katana and kick like MA?

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Well Castle defined it as being -9999% damage, which implies SS Tanks can still handclap, for example. And that description doesnt imply that the defence drop is still there. but either way I don't mind.

I personally found the bug bear was the lack of taunt and aggro. If you are 100% concentrating all the time, I guess you can mitigate it by launching taunt at exactly the right moment.

But to me it was a pain and they're doing away with it.

BTW, any other long standing forumite remember how I got flamed seriously for saying .9999% reoccuring? The walls of hell opened up as everyone argued, in an offensive way, that I was wrong for suggesting it's a legitimate term.

Yet another example of me being flamed and being right all along.

Unless someone feels like telling Castle that -9999% doesn't exist.

Sorry to bring that up but after all the flaming I get, when I'm shown to be correct I do feel the need to mention it.

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For most people the taunt and aggro control was there. It lasted from their actions prior or they stopped the team before the next group. Often enough in the way of taunt and gauntlet was already given. Icetanks have to hibernate in a jiffy and so for all the time that takes making sure taunt duration existed on all the foes had to be done. When blocking oneself (yes running off ) for an unstoppable crash you can leave enough taunt duration so your target is compelled to only be able to hit you (still warrior like). The times I lost aggro with a rage drop were rare. Usually the smaller the team the more my damage mattered. Its -999% damage last I checked. You can still attack but the attacks are weak in damage terms although not as weak as handclap. Threat is modified by taunt and damage so by doing less damage your threat maybe lowered enough for some scrapper to start tanking some of the foes in a large group. I don't know the maths exactly but the idea that you can taunt is nice. It maybe possible that someone can lose aggro during the crash but just in no way as easy.

The change may still mean you have to concentrate ie by losing def then a limb and getting defeated or losing end then a toggle and then getting defeated. Many didn't most of the time anyway but if you don't lose aggro and don't hit the right target and have as much end then having that aggro can drop you. I like the idea that taunt stays and I like the idea of concentration being needed. If I don't need to concentrate somewhere I need to either gimp my toon or play something better.

To me, it can mean that instead of "only affecting self" you do much less damage after suffering an endurance drop and losing some defense.

Teams don't suffer from tanks lacking in taunt control or timing (in my case timing ).

Well I don't expect to have a fully IO'd build for 10 years or so with my alting. Well I'd be tempted to forget fight pool. You can get high ranged and aoe defense but not so high melee which is going to be where you don't need to be or in thinking that melee is usually with smash and/or lethal components that are covered by scorpion shield anyway. So in that one could likely afford other stuff. I don't see a need for health if ya have aid self an all so you could go aid other, aid self and 2 handy things from the main sets.

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Some folks in the US have crunched the numbers... See here

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If they weren't playing this I swear they'll be trainspotting.

You come out with a lot of well slotted builds as if inf and rewards grows on trees. Are we looking at a build thats 2 years down the line or can you readily just go and get this?

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You have Quills and SPine Burst for PvP????

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You might want to read the topic's title properly. It clearly states 'Back to PvE...'

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I did want to, hence I did.

I was replying to SRM's post re his PvP build.

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I don't understand it either.

I don't know if that will effect threat level.

An invuln can do the MoSTF without fight pool, without med pool, without using unstoppable, without 2 other tankers in the team, without the 2 empaths and be a non scranker purely because they focused on aggro control. Not saying you did btw.

Not as invulnerable/untouchable as Hibernate and for as long neither. In fact! Its not good to easily fall but better to fall on ones own terms. Clockwork king can be done with or without that pbaoe but as a Firetank I'll go take it for fun being reasonably sure that I with the team can mitigate the aftermath.

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Taunt - great power, nothing like mouthing off to a big mob, tossing my mace from hand to hand and letting them come get me. But how to people slot it for PvE? Taunt duration seems fairly long anyways, its up pretty fast, doesnt cost much endurance, doesn't need a to hit check in PvE, so is it best to just put range in it? Any help with this would be great.

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You sound like we have so much in common. I began with recharge for recoveries (loathe unnecessary ones) then went with taunt facing AVs then found range useful. Over years it became 2,2,2 but after you play with different monsters, GMs and AVs it gets to differ from 2,2,2 and so I may change whats there depending on the task. 3 slots I'd call a minimum and 6 slots that you can chop and change I'd call maxxing out on flexibility. The new taunt sets I'd place into my Dwarfs if I got them as they would make them so much better.

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Aggro - Is there a cap to how many mobs you can keep on you? As in if I taunt two entire spawns, will all of them come after me? Will some stray and go after others? Or turn away from me if somone hits them hard enough? Is there a cap to how much aggro we can hold?

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Its often best to do one group at a time in a large team so, just whatevers there without attracting more is often when the team is challenged better. Bare in mind that enemies like death shamans spawn more minions and so what maybe 17 becomes more and depending on whose got who this can then lead to a problem.

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How does gauntlet actually work? Still figuring that one out.

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You have to hit with it to start so anything autohit is better under some circumstances. Lycanus's close enough guide in my above post talks about gauntlet aoes, they will differ in radius with different attacks. You can get info from red tomax or mids, usually its the highest end costing or the aoe thats the best opener because the gauntlet aoe is greatest. Just don't think the durations are going to be exact on anything you face though. Whirling Mace would be my way of saying 'ready' to the team after taunting those I know I am not going to hit with it.

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Due to longer break from coh and not having played a tank recently i have two questions about taunting.

I have a wp/ss tank and i noticed that the taunt aura from rttc seems to have no duration at all. As soon as i move away from a mob i loose it. Some ppl say wp is just bad at taunting others said its a bug what is true.

The other thing is how well can u taunt by using only attacks, from what i understand gauntlet works like taunt but with a much shorter duration. So against a single target or using ae attacks it should be as good as taunt, as long as i keep spamming attacks or is gauntlet generally weaker?

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The durations may never be as long as stated in any guide depending on what you face and nothing is as good as taunt. Nothing.

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Heres a post about Taunt(the power)/Gauntlet and taunt(the effect) on the US forums. Its Issue 6, but a lot of it seems to still be relevant.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...Number=5396203

Kranx

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Thats the only one worth reading on them forums, well I like this one also as it can get you thinking in terms of table top templates which is definitely what Tankers should be doing imo and not keymashing along telling people they are so godlike.

I 6 slot taunt. For reasons that can't be attained by any less. This is as helpful as I get as I like people to work things out for themselves

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Just remember that Disruption Arrow stacks with itself, but Acid doesn't, so you should be able to have about -60% Res at points during the battle.

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Are you sure?

I'd need to double check just because I usually think its best to but as it is I currently only get the recharge to meet a base duration with it.

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Having a self rez is the same as haing an unlimited duration phase shift.

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Hibernates got more in common with phase shift imo.

I took mine at 32, I don't give a monkeys about taking one for the team and self ressing. The great thing is you can get back aggro after defeat and thats enough for me apart from cool looks. I like my tanks different in concept. If they were the same I would just have one type. I will say that you can use it and abuse it and still be a good tanky.

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Ice Patch only lasts for 30 seconds, and laying one certainly doesn't mean you can turn off your mez protection.

Also, there's normally about 20 seconds between Ice Patches on that build, you're looking at it with Hasten up. 10 End isn't much, even if you want a "Perma" patch (every 30 secs or "every new mob"). Look at "Energy Absorption", 13 end and you'll use it every chance you get! But you'll never turn off your mez protection.

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Lol what?

Who implied anything about turning the mezz protection off?

Not me. That could be COMPLETELY stupid.

It was a comparison of possible end cost over time. Wet Ice eps versus Ice patch eps (auto'd) and ice patch uses more end over time; more than some attacks that people end slot and I consider it as part of the attack chain. In getting as many attack chains to an end bar I would slot it if nothing better and no there ain't. Ice tanks can go stamina less better by doing so.

Within a fight duration the endurance cost of ice patch can easily outweigh that of wet ice. Outside of a fight duration end rec will cover all toggles nicely.

Lets say you lay ice patch every 10 secs and its for 10 end then its eps is 10/10 = 1 eps and you have wet ice for 0,3 eps. 1 eps is greater than 0,3 and so then I'll end slot ice patch rather than second end slot wet ice.

Although with some AVs you can make it so your comfortable in turning off mezz protection by out ranging their mezz attacks with taunt. If it can't reach you then it can't get you.

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I don't care about being ganked by people once, being attacked by surprise, for anyones duels or whether or not its fair to be TK'd into foes or TP'd droned. Once you have proved yourself with someone and got a rep; then unless there is some valuable info to gain from perhaps a combat log or that person is more than willing to have another go for their interests; then I think its job done. In PVP there are almost no rules. Rules are made by people to suit themselves whenever more than by the given limitations that the EULA and what possible mechanics are left. One golden rule for the good of the game is to not consistently harass people and make them leave or go off the idea of PvP.

In short its either about getting a rep or bounty, attaining some knowledge, doing whatever dirty trick it takes to win the zone or both opposing PvPers idea of fun. The rest is trash to me and so constantly getting someone (get them once by all means for a rep or bounty) who is just trying to get a explorer badge would be trash because its ruining their evening (get them once by all means for a rep or bounty). I was constantly ganked once and so when I eventually became the bounty I just as shamelessly spent the evening in the hospital, untouchable, watching movies, Wimbledon I think it was followed by Love Actually.

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Then don't get too close to the drones or always carry enough bf's to break tk if there is someone in the zone with tk. Its that simple.

We don't all just pvp for rep, bounty or any of the other things you mentioned.

Why not harass people or try and put them off the idea of pvp? If they are getting on everyone nerves in the zone and are acting like a PITA them putting them off pvp seems like a good idea to me.

And ruining a carebear badgers evening by making them work for a zone badge sounds good to me. Surely the original idea of the pvp zone badges was to reward those who actually pvp in the zones instead of sitting in the hospital. Badgers are sad creatures anyways and deserve anything they get. I personally like to mob tp them.

People sitting in the hospital doesn't bother me. You get bounty from killing anyone - not just the top bounty BTW.

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I'll never understand what fun there is in repeating the same moves on someone thats already been recently beaten, whose only way of getting on peoples nerves is by being there and unwilling to fight really. Is there a thrill to be had from it? In PVE you can ignore people whom you don't like or have had enough of in terms of spoiling your evening but in a PVP zone you can't really, the option to ignore doesn't actually exist. I can't say it should but harassment takes on many forms and to get ganked, go to hospital, get ganked goto hospital over and over isn't fun for the gankee. Gut if the gankee is getting time badge anyway, sits in the hospital as the target bounty too much in the way of complaints spoiling the gankers fun and watching a film thats much more interesting. People being put off only leads to there being less people taking part, if zones are fun for everyone then I'd imagine that a good thing anyways by watching a movie as the bounty people were put off but like you I wasn't bothered.

I do pvp if attacked without a worry, I see the no rules situation and I thought tp droning was a fair tactic but eventually ppl get bored with repetition.

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For the record, I walked away from that battle unscathed

Mother's Love - I'm waiting

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Yes thankyou my dear, smashing little fight this evening!, thankyou so much.

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I don't care about being ganked by people once, being attacked by surprise, for anyones duels or whether or not its fair to be TK'd into foes or TP'd droned. Once you have proved yourself with someone and got a rep; then unless there is some valuable info to gain from perhaps a combat log or that person is more than willing to have another go for their interests; then I think its job done. In PVP there are almost no rules. Rules are made by people to suit themselves whenever more than by the given limitations that the EULA and what possible mechanics are left. One golden rule for the good of the game is to not consistently harass people and make them leave or go off the idea of PvP.

In short its either about getting a rep or bounty, attaining some knowledge, doing whatever dirty trick it takes to win the zone or both opposing PvPers idea of fun. The rest is trash to me and so constantly getting someone (get them once by all means for a rep or bounty) who is just trying to get a explorer badge would be trash because its ruining their evening (get them once by all means for a rep or bounty). I was constantly ganked once and so when I eventually became the bounty I just as shamelessly spent the evening in the hospital, untouchable, watching movies, Wimbledon I think it was followed by Love Actually.