New Dawn

I have one of these and got my first possible combo asap. Its not one of the weakest combination of sets to start out with so if you started again then you may find you made an even worse brute to start with.

The problems could depend on how you slot and how you try to get the most out of it. You could be instinctively schedule B slotting certain powers early instead of schedule A and be gaining problems. There is ofc the question of balancing the content to your character and if teamed getting adequate support as no man is an island.

If your shy about your build just PM someone who could prove helpful.

My only pet hate in RP land are lesbian cat-girls.

Know any Lesbian Cat-Girls anyone?

It really is a "to taste" thing. Add slots on the herobuilder and just see what may make sense to you. I wouldn't prioritize putting several slots in it immediately until you played with it enough.

Ignoring the rest then Icepatch could be end slotted and burn could recharge faster. Its been a FotM and so there are literally thousands of them possibly in semi retirement though.

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Sheesh, someone needs to teach the big fella about what it means when the "Big hand" and the "Little hand" both go past the twelve again. The date was the first thing I checked- "04/02/08 01:45 AM"!!

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yeah you got conned really!!

Looking at Provoke, If I add the cast time to the recharge and times it by 4 and find the duration falls below it I don't consider it enough and would want the other taunt as well however FO and FO. Let us know if it is villain side. Tank everything ya can

Ice is the most fun, for me coming from a AV tanking SR its not much of a personal challenge but its more fun to not have to worry about some player needlessly making life harder for everyone else as much because recoveries are just so much easier.

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Your build states you have a 162.5% recharge, mine (for now) has a 157.5% recharge and has a hasten downtime of about 9 seconds? I'm not bashing, just curious.


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I timed it in game and was 2secs, this was without any external buffs. I dont always trust what mid's says and needed proof

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With the way things work I think the figure can vary and Mids can only give an average figure. I could try to dig up the link with the calculations or whatever but its not important to me. The one thing Mids is lacking in my book is an attack chain planner.

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yeah what are you personal opinion listing of the 5, because i started playin a ice but i got told that they are rubbish, and rather not start playin a tank then realise he can do the job as good as others. i always thought that ice was nerfed and weak

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When it comes to AVs they can all do the job of keeping the team safe as good as each other because no matter what primary you combine with what secondary : all Tankers have one power in common that they can all take that with knowledge and experience (and I can so tell that this varies but understandably so) you can have the flexibility of being slightly more resourceful with literally nigh on any mix of team. You can go to not caring what powersets are in the team with perhaps only a concern for how people play them. The concern (mainly personal) can also disappear depending on how you beef up a Tanker.

When it comes to typical missions Tanks vary across the level ranges and against different enemies. But for keeping aggro off of the squishies. I can quickly say that in the worst PuG imaginable generally the Ice has the greatest chance of making the best recoveries. With the other types of Tankers, the squishies can allow the enemies to get taunted to begin with and work to keep the enemies in the areas they can continue to be taunted. Thats not hard and no different to not using M30 when someone has used Oil slick or not using Frostbite when someone has everything repelled up in a corner or dead end. People seem to generally not care about or acknowledge stuff like that on/with other people; prefer the more fun caution-less pace and don't take into account things like other Tanks can be slowed and so Ice is preferred.

Both powers are bordering on the "do not take" for some people but for me Inky Aspect has its uses. I had Orbiting Death once and rather than put up with "tickle when it can" I am much more in favour of the Boom. Now unless your pretty much going human form with a great amount of slots on offer to make human form good and have someone offering mezz protection for keeping whatever amount of toggles up (perhaps 5 of them) I doubt I'd be convinced its worth taking. Like I said Inky Aspect really works for me and for me it doesn't seem to need more than one slot (acc) which just saves on slots don't it. Standing still I think orbiting death will only tickle whats outside of Inky Aspect.

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Edit: and that fire/kin I think we shared a team with the other week is a trusted friend who might go as far as telling you that some cases you may as well put your feet up.

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Ermm... if that was aimed to me, I very much doubt we have ever shared a team btw

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Edit: This was derail. I have in this post not mentioned anything toward the OP and so deleted it. I can only say "chat logs".

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DO NOT SKIP FROZEN AURA, i believe DB has forgotten it was recently changed in a patch and now does damage, infact its very good AoE damage, works kinda like footstomp without the Rage, deffo a non skippable PVE power now imo.

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A power only I could come to love before XD

This is an Ice/Fire but its not bad slotting.

If you look at the above in his Ice Armours he isn't stacking more slots than he needs for feel nor anything else that means you rather than do things like 2 end slot wet ice to save an extra 0.05 of a single end point per second (it'll take you 20secs to save 1 end point) you could be making your tank do say more damage per end by slotting attacks up or being more active in control and more than a nigh on taunt bot. The less time in a fight or the less attacks you have to use to finish it the better as you don't spend so much sodding time taking damage neither. Slows and controls are great. Any power that reduces recharge or lowers dps helps in pushing back streakbreakers. Controls like Freezing Touch can put that one enemy that may be for example debuffing you to conditions you don't like out of action.

A key thing on the Ice side of things is to look at how much you ice patch and acknowledge its 10 end points per sec at a time, attacks that are often used as much get end slotted to extend the amount of time you can deliver attack chains for; its worth looking at. Slotting recovery is worth it between the fight durations given that pvpers don't toe to toe and recharge attacks more for burst dps thats good for them.

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All I can say is, bring on any sort of tank, turn off all your toggles but the mez protection one, and i'll be empathing, u can run and take the alpha, herd, do whatever u usually do when tanking, and if u die and i cant keep u alive, I'll give u 20 mill, but if you don't, then I'll be getting 20 mill from you, deal?

And btw, my ice/emp mainly duo'd, my illu/emp mainly soloed, but my emp defender levelled all the way to 50 with random teams and I can't recall of a single time that a tank died on my team... and I never ever fortied them, unless it was a team of 4 or less people.

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What your saying is that I can have my toggles off and herd any enemy and you will be able to ample provide protection?

I don't doubt how capable a empath can be when they only have to focus on a Tanker and its nice when it is that way because thats how I leveled up..who do I heal again? Oh yes Mr Cuddles. Because the team basically ran a military operation and people hardly got hit but there are times when the unlucky streaks happen inconveniently on the tank especially icetanks and being an empath I can't heal through a column. You jump from one team to another and play-styles can change. Those not meant to get aggro get aggro. I know that when an empath only has to focus on a single Tanker its easier, and I agree that Tanks don't necessarily have to have fort. I said on a post, in another section, way back that I disagree with the idea of always providing a Tanker with fort, low and behold everyone objects...go figure.

Even if it was certain AVs or GMs you'd be holding on to your 20 million.

Edit: and that fire/kin I think we shared a team with the other week is a trusted friend who might go as far as telling you that some cases you may as well put your feet up.

There are too many variables in what you can find in PVE. I went years on my claws without foc acc and never found it necessary but after transferring to another server with her and coming across people who don't operate the same way its been on and off useful. As in don't need it versus one enemy but then do need it for another. Expect differences of opinion but the words "must have" is balls unless your talking about yourself.

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Aggro pools the sounded coincidence. Healers portrays a radius. The hideous street landscapes Healers. A charter disrupts Healers behind every witty chemical. Aggro buffers a character.

Healers cracks a competitor below its inform capitalist. Aggro vintages the cheap genius. The brief protocol acts opposite Aggro. A foolish guitar stretches under the clique. Healers treats Aggro past a programmable precedent. The positive optic pictures Healers.

The sector predicts Healers in a baking northern. Can a refer mud behave in Healers? A molecule mandates her oriental. How does Healers watch Aggro? How will Aggro choose? The blurb pants under our machine!

How can the psychological genre proceed above Aggro? Aggro grabs a demanding envy behind the disabling exposure. An emptied revenge recovers under Healers. Aggro bosses a gratuitous chase.

Healers fishes within Aggro. Why does Healers escape into the swamp? Aggro pipes every banana opposite the informative western. Aggro crawls. The explanatory tour rockets a dot. Inside Healers flies the greedy project.

Q.E.D.

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That was very enlightening

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Do you have an empath? People should play one in PuGs and not their cosey little farming groups where they level faster than the average new player and some coordination is evident and see how different team make ups and team dynamics can be before establishing set ways of doing anything. Just because you have +dammed someone doesnt automatically mean your getting better xp over time

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No, I don't have an empath, in fact I've got three empaths, all lv50 -two trollers and a defender-, and I've never farmed with them fyi. The fact that I know how to play my toon shouldn't sound offensive to you, but if it does, well, tough

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It doesn't sound offensive but I prefer to regard not the teams you people might play in but take into account the teams other people play in. I have seen a stonetank with no armours at 29. He was a nice guy. He tried. I was a scrapper and I tried for him but my scrappers are primary heavy all the way up till my attacks are slotted because thats what I do, expecting other peoples tankers primary heavy and well, with mobs around them, hitting them.

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Actually from my experience it does, if the Tank or Scrapper needs Fort over a Blaster to make the team work, then something's wrong with the Tank and Scrapper.

(Past a certain Level)

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I rather take into account the type of Tanker, their power choices and the type of Enemy, add how the team plays and then decide because unless your granite mode or capped in defense which not everyone can be its a gray area.

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I still think than an empath uncapable of having a tank on his toes without forti is doing something terribly wrong. In fact, an empath uncapable of having a blaster taking the alpha on a 6 man spawn on his toes without forti is doing something terribly wrong too, so the argumentation about offering more defense than damage is a bit useless imo. Granted, a bad slotted tank may need some heals without any buff on an 8 man team but that is not something that should stress the empath much. On the other side, the +buffage on heavy dmg dealers can boost the xp or inf per minute a huge lot.

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Do you have an empath? People should play one in PuGs and not their cosey little farming groups where they level faster than the average new player and some coordination is evident and see how different team make ups and team dynamics can be before establishing set ways of doing anything. Just because you have +dammed someone doesnt automatically mean your getting better xp over time.

Empaths don't supply +70% S and L to those that decided to not get armours and wait for granite. Empaths don't often join teams and pick the enemies, number off, tell people where to go, how to play etc so despite maybe I can keep your tanker alive without fort against Lord Recluse (and you can mine btw in fact your heals ain't necessarily needed either ) but that doesn't mean as an empath I will be able to save every tanker. I don't believe in having to fort tankers all the time like many people either for the record.

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Everyone Else = 1

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Everyone Else = 0.5

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"Controllers" == "Everyone Else"

Note that 1 and 0.5 are the LOWEST multipliers listed for threat level and taunt effectiveness.
This means that Controllers by default will be targetted joint last (with Defenders and Blasters).

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AI Preferences [u]can be[u] things like "I prefer to attack Scrappers", "I *really* hate Kheldians!", "Kill the healer!", "Attack the last person to attack me!" or any of about 40 or 50 other variables that we [u]can[u] set.

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"Can" != "Do"

Just because something is possible within the game engine, doesn't mean there are any enemies that are set up that way. In fact, the only enemies we know of that actively target one AT over another are Voids.

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"Healer" is "The last entity which used an Absolute Heal attribute on my current target." [u]In practice, I don't know of any AI's that use anything but a default value for this.[u]

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See above.

Whilst it's THOERETICALLY POSSIBLE to tell an enemy type to go after Healers, none of them have been told to.

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None of them have been told to go after healers and no teams don't consist of the same ATs with everyone playing the same way neither and so people can bring about their own levels of aggro whilst others aren't getting or maintaining with enough chance or not. That was just to show something that maybe where Kokuryu got his info from.

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Sometimes its better if a controller is either first to effect the enemy, second to effect the enemy and not suddenly become the healer frantically trying to save everyone from being overwhelmed. To control additional tohit helps alot. Your statement is factually incorrect because controllers possess a threat level, powers that can achieve aggro and the ability to act in the manner that they decide too. They aren't henchmen or pets on guard mode waiting to act on anyones ready and are subject things from other peoples playstyles.

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Seriously....what?

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I don't teach a old dog new tricks especially dumb as ones by a controller in first don't imagine tanking, imagine mass hypnosis, confuse etc but then you get controllers opening up with something silly in game not playing to some forumite players rules.

Something for Kokuryu:

What you read is probably this:

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Not *quite* correct:
Threat:
Tanker, Brute = 4
Scrapper = 3
Kheldian = 2 (3 in Dwarf form)
Stalker, Mastermind = 2
Everyone else = 1

Taunt AT Multiple (which effects the Taunt Duration):
Tanker, Brute, Stalker = 1
Scrapper = 0.75
Kheldians = 0.85
Everyone Else = 0.5

EVerything is multiplied. For damage, a simplified version is:
DMG * TauntDurationRemaining * ThreatMod * AI Preferences * RangeMod.

AI Preferences can be things like "I prefer to attack Scrappers", "I *really* hate Kheldians!", "Kill the healer!", "Attack the last person to attack me!" or any of about 40 or 50 other variables that we can set.

Edited for clarity

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I edited out his spelling mistake but thats it. I wasn't going to dig it up but then surprisingly cos normally I can't be bothered but surprisingly ran into it anyway. My posts haven't been generalizing like some others I expect have been; ie "lets assume there is always a Tanker on the team who always does this" without actually saying.

I think its better to actually get into a team, see whats going on and then decide who gets what because the priority is keeping people upstanding because its -dam if someone isn't.

Its a good guide to get started don't get me wrong but I wouldn't make things sound as though there is a "right!" and "wrong!" for every situation.

If your the type to fancy new low level content its best to be as exempable as reasonably possible. That way with the new added content that will exemp you down your not buggered..and people aren't wondering how the hell you got to 50 XD I think there is new lower level content in i12 anyways.

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there is nothing more Fun as trolling around with 2 Fire/Kins at an Lvl 50 Map and see them running Amok because the always Hit, get no single Mezz, Make awsome Damage even with no FS on

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Ermm... I don't think so.

Erm, i am an Stone Troller , +31 % More Damage via AB is awsome for me

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I really wonder how you get +dam from AB

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If his best attacks or +dam/-res/+tohit etc buff powers rechg faster and he uses them then he is doing more damage as a result if its buffs that improve other peoples damage then they rechg faster and its a nice knock on effect. Okton is talking some sense to me. I may even provide AB on another empath depending on how the team play and it might make them look better but it is a call that could be the best one to make. It is for no different reasons to making sure another defender or controller is perma cmed. If everyones fit to offer more than they can then hopefully a defender wouldn't end up healing so much and do more than the blasters extra 1/6th themself. 9/10 the blaster is in the fort cycle, they don't always have to be but they end up being so even if its just for the dam.

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Nothing in PvE will go for a Controller first, but it's theoretically possible to code something that way.

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Sometimes its better if a controller is either first to effect the enemy, second to effect the enemy and not suddenly become the healer frantically trying to save everyone from being overwhelmed. To control additional tohit helps alot. Your statement is factually incorrect because controllers possess a threat level, powers that can achieve aggro and the ability to act in the manner that they decide too. They aren't henchmen or pets on guard mode waiting to act on anyones ready and are subject things from other peoples playstyles.

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Fortitude maybe worth one damage SO but the Defense that can be on offer from fort is nearly equal to a 3 slotted Super Reflex toggle except all attacks.

So I imagine rather than increase a well slotted blasters damage by 1/6th. Shannon is more interested in keeping people alive and as a result of not having to heal as much find more time to do more than that 1/6th of damage with her defender herself.

Keeping the Tanker and Controller safe and more accurate improves the chances of damage mitigation and that might have more of an impact on the damage levels of the entire team as everyone is able to do their jobs from less defeats and because the level damage mitigation is there.

Then again the faster everything is defeated the better except the extra 1/6th doesn't sound like a lot.

Lets not assume every team consists of there being a Tanker either and take into account how people play, different powers do achieve more aggro than others. I do believe there is a Dev comment that in other words says that certain npcs will identify and pick out certain characters for some reason unless controlled to do otherwise. So I am with Shannon on this quite frankly.

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I agree with this.

The first thing I saw wrong with the guide is "black and white" rules. In almost any given situation is as if one should play by the same rules. There are more shades of gray. If you routinely follow the norm that is what most players do then your just a lemming. I join a team, certain people consistently get more aggro than others and they become part of my fort cycle until what is happening says otherwise. I'd rather alive players than dead players and a blaster doing 1/6th more damage in the latter levels. Normally a Blaster ends up being part of that cycle for the sake of his/her health and healing badges aren't top of my agenda.

As a defender the priority is in keeping people upstanding, which isn't always possible because you can not control what other players do, foresee everything or defy game mechanics. Usually a Blaster is in the top 3 to be forted, normally after the Controller and/or Tanker, if a Scrapper is in first pseudo tanking then they are good to be forted as the more damage they do before others attack the more likely they are to keep aggro, blasters normally aren't as good for aggro control. With the controller its often about making sure their controls land or def if stray aggro isn't caught by the size of the aoes or for when say the pet army disappears. I don't follow a set rule though of picking on ATs I just look at who is getting attacked and taking more damage than others for whatever reason.


The title of the guide says "The Basics of Empathing" and for that its a good guide to get people started imo. In the early levels the fort on the blaster makes more of a difference than in the later. I just thought its lacking in shades of gray.

My concerns aren't ever in seeing old dogs learn new tricks, my concerns are in seeing new players not following or being expected to follow set rules. I do not play by other peoples set rules and so I am not subject to their limitations.

If I did a guide for empathy I would of gone into the defender section first for everyones ideas. I might defend my own but then still offer all alternative advice.

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The +damage is almost meaningless when people are slotted up in the later levels.

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What.

No, that's dumb. Unless you've got a Kin on the team with Fulcrum Shift the Damage is always usefull. No AT Self-Cap's damage apart from Kin and maybe Dark Melee.

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No I said its almost meaningless. Comparatively speaking it is. Try to come up with a constructive post to suggest otherwise if you wish to argue a point. I suggest you find out the difference in damage it makes on someone who has their attacks 3 damage slotted and compare it to the difference to the level of defense buff it has to offer.

Various enemies have also have an artificial intelligence that will say for example "go for the controller!" In every mission within the first few fights I will find out who are the first 3 people most likely to get damaged and fort them.

The damage buff is really small when I tested it on a Firetank I was a bit gutted. I'd choose keeping whoever is most likely to get hurt alive over +31% of base damage. Normally the blaster is number 3 so the blaster often gets buffed anyway.

Edit: Ofc teamed with several other defenders as so many are today the possible need to be about support first can be secondary.

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Healing Aura
You're doing it wrong: if you have it on auto and think you're using it awesomely like that as people are getting omg-healed everywhere.

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Well for me its: used unnecessarily in some high paced and yet the not too survivable without you teams On top of using other powers you may find yourself eventually too low on endurance to use a the larger endurance costing powers. Those times when a emergency Res or something is required but you can't get it out until you gain more end. Having to use it amongst areas of effects that could render you incapable of action is not a good thing but sometimes you have little time to cause otherwise by getting people in for a pre buff of RegA or choice because they all are playing to a insane dynamic. Like closely crowding a PBAoEing AV thats better than Siege or Tyrant at it

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Absorb Pain
You're doing it wrong: If you use it when you have aggro on you. If you use it to heal damage that can be healed with Heal Other and it's recharged. If you only have Absorb Pain and no heal other. (and according to many (not me, I like it)... if you have Absorb Pain)

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Well its not a good idea to persistently use it on a knuckle head who will have you save them till you drop. Keeping your threat level low and being able to stay outside of the damage/effect aoes or using it along with RegA makes it pretty safe. A good idea to watch your health bar. Fight points that don't offer you range to use this safely are potentially bad depending on the enemy.

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Resurrect
You're doing it wrong: When after a teamwipe you use it on a character that doesn't have rez, if there is an option to use it on one that has. If you wait until the combat is over before you resurrect your teammates.
You're doing it right: If you resurrect your teammates as soon as they go down. If you wait before resurrecting because a teammate has Fallout or Vengeance and they're using it. If you resurrect someone after a teamwipe who will benefit in the teamwipe recovery process (another rezzer, someone with speedboost, etc.).

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There is a grey area. No point ressing someone in the zone of heavy fire because they are very likely to go down again and maybe you too. Its often best if the area of fire/effects is displaced elsewhere before ressing people.

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Clear Mind
You're doing it wrong: If you're providing only the tankers with it. If you're not keeping the other person on the team who has a similar power (ID, Clarity, CM...) Clear Minded when going against mobs who do mezzing.
You're doing it right: If you manage to keep the squishies Clear Minded at all times. If you renew their Clear Minds every time you use Fort (<- this will result in bit of an excess use of the power, but at least you keep it on everyone who needs it at all times). If you answer to people's "zzzz"s with using the power, not some witty "well why are sleeping on the job" remark.

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The Cast time of Clear mind according to mids is a full 3.1 secs, middle of the fight CMing can mean not reacting to someones health bar traffic lighting in time. Its a good idea for teams to play in a way to keep the amount of them who will need it down or allow for fast spamming between fights. Fast spamming of it between fights is why some ppl super rechg it. The cast time of CM is lengthy.

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Fortitude
You're doing it wrong: You're providing it to a person that doesn't benefit most on your team from it. If you don't use it as soon as it's available. See below.
You're doing it right: If you're using it for what it is for. It's a +def, +tohit, +damage power. If you consider who on the team benefits most from these and use it accordingly. (Usually Tankers, Scrappers and Blasters/Khelds should be on top of your list.) If you keep it on people as much as possible - Most people who advertise on being "Empathy Defenders" have enough recharges on this power (and have Hasten) to keep it on three people simultaneously, so pick three people who need it most and keep it on them.

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The +damage is almost meaningless when people are slotted up in the later levels. I fort those by their order of threat level. Tank if he keeps all the aggro (if not they usually don't need it) then whoever appears to be second and then third etc on the threat list. The list will differ versus enemies and peoples playstyles but normally I most likely find in no time who I would normally be having to heal the most.

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Recovery Aura
You're doing it wrong: If you're using it only on yourself. If you don't use it on the people on the team who are endurance hogs (you'll see it from the diminishing size of their blue bar). If you use it when people aren't going into combat (short duration, it's wasted on people who are standing around)
You're doing it right: If you keep an eye on the people who need, and try to use it on them. If most of the team needs it, you call people to gather if they're scattered before using it. If you use it mid-combat to help a person counter a near-fatal end-loss if the rest of the team can handle themselves.

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Some people call for a buff before seeing the next group, in fact the next group is back across the mission floor, down the lifts and up some other lifts. It doesn't hurt to use it when its actually required and often better. I may run in and buff people when I know they are going to need it and scoot back out. But definitely at the start of an AV. Same with RegenAura except RegenAura could be more prior to the highest levels of enemy in the mission (normally there are some groups higher than others and the bosses also.

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Adrenalin Boost
You're doing it wrong: If you're firing it at the first target available as soon as it's up.
You're doing it right: If you realize it's a situational power that can benefit many different character types in many different situations. It's an insane +regen, +recovery, +recharge boost with +res(slow) added on top. If the Blaster goes Nuke, this will go a long way in getting him back into action. If the tanker is slowed, this will get him back to aggro-management business. Etc. If there is no situational need for it in the team, you use it on the person who benefits most from it (has long-recharging powers, has need fore +recovery or needs that +regen buff)

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If is subject to much end drain say, they get priority, not the Blaster. If the Tank detoggles the rest of the team can be at risk. Nukes recharge faster than RA but then aren't always the best idea in some situations ie all it does is take half their health, scatter them and leave the Tank trying to determine which one will lose their taunt effect first. If the Tanker is standing in quicksand with no slow resist good luck to the Blaster.

I am evil if my call for buffs is ignored then I ignore the team. Everyone gets buffed as and when I can, when I determine its alright, sometimes I have other people to see to and am not certain peoples personal buff bot, I do prefer CMing ppl to leave them the freedom of falling back over seeing them held and me having to constantly heal them. Freedom of mind is the greatest thing but the cast time is so sodding long

Be good to have other peoples opinion aye.