New Dawn

I would normally slot damage first. Damage to do more damage per endurance and have a lower fight duration and use the attacks less in the long run. However tanks need to make every hit land in my book and so when acc becomes an issue acc it up. Then after acc and dam, add endurance, widen the dam per end in your attacks and watch the end bar take longer to decrease.

Endurance in toggles will only noticeably effect how long it takes to recover end again between fights. I would normally leave that until much later and kit everything else out first. The toggles don't cost much anyway.

I wouldn't have taunt slots in attacks. Damage is fine for increasing your ability to hold aggro. The non damage aura and/or taunt are the only places I'd put taunt slots in. Its a to taste thing depending on how many you do. Also certain mixes of primaries and secondaries could need taunt slots lesser than others. If you find your not remembered long enough then you do something about it. My Invincible has never had less than 1 from the moment I got it. Def usually gets added first but I did what I did. XD

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What you are doing is basing other people on your own expectations and working and this is wrong, you need to base things around a core customer and this is much closer to my mum than you or I, you want proof of this? go around checking the info of people you dont know and laugh at thier power choices

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Completely wrong person to say this to. I have few characters with "ultimate" builds, I don't see them as a necessity. Edit: No characters come to think of it, maybe in terms of or as near as on a planner.

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You CANNOT base a game around the playerbase being smart, thats a recipe for disaster as the vast majority of people are stupid, this is why we ahve the AT system so no matter what people do they cant screw themselves up soooo badly it cant be corrected.

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Insulting the vast majority of the player base would be wrong, insulting anyone here has not been my intention. The AT system is there so that those new to the game wouldn't screw up their builds so easily. The VEATs are for people with 50s and so aren't completely new. The game has to be somewhat both challenging and fun. You have a difficulty rating to play with to get that.

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I placed banes as my second favourite veat in terms of fun but Im what I would class as an advanced gamer with massive resources stored up on my private bases.

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I really wish I hadn't deleted your private message from a couple of years back.

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However fun doesnt equal balanced and thats what I am all about, I will be making a NW first but I dont want my NW to be better than the other veats and I dont want banes to be lagging behind.

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I would like to see balance. If you read things carefully I am pushing for more of a constructive post coming from people who complain. Its not necessarily to help those complaining neither - I draw from it . I like to learn from people every time they say anything.

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I couldnt care less if you personally enjoy banes and neither could ncsoft because quite frankly you are too advanced to be of the target demographic

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I really hope no one I know from Zukunft reads this, they'd be like "huh?". Thanks for the compliment but I am a little bit of a one trick pony in a distinct area. That means across ATs I will vary and even be worse than your mum. Your mum sounds cool btw . Actually I tend to make gimped builds, learn to deal with it and should I go and optimize a build I should be that much better for it. I drew a lot from other peoples ways, working with less and then adding more is one of them. Still leveling that Bane when I can. I am not saying they should not be changed, but I like to seek out something thats not easy to detect. Some write stuff off and don't go back over it. I don't. I may know what can be termed as cheats and have trouble gobbing off about them but I like to still qualify as one of the worse players.

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this isnt khelds, the developers have made it clear this is not a "advanced AT" debacle that khelds were (yes I know people enjoy them and play them well but they were a commercial disaster for the percentage of players on them and the amount of resources invested in their creation)

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Khelds were an advanced AT? More reactive than proactive compared to VEATs but not advanced.

Anyway to stop having to quote you too much.

VEATs. Isn't for the advanced gamer. They proactively buff others whilst they are teamed so as little as 3 in the team and it's possibly soft cap in defense. Now once you have that, it means n00b it up and have fun. As one VEAT in a mixed team its still all good. Advanced no, but if your going to solo then you may want to think about what your doing because in any area you specialize in your not a master, just like khelds, to avoid stepping on the other ATs toes and without team buffs need to make more of your build.

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The vibe I am getting from your post is that you "want" to play one to prove that they can be made sucessful

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I don't do vibes, just read the words and try not to add nor take away. I want to play a bane because you all made them sound so damn challenging. Real life example of what I do is, people say Fire tanks need fitness and tough, so I deliberately go without. This doesn't make my tank better than others "in terms of" nor efficient, it just removes the word "need" seeing as somehow, I find alternative ways of doing stuff. Sometimes my builds really need specialist play. Some basic builds before you add power pools are designed to play best a certain way but maybe because of the difference in what you have to do to survive with what you get to do to survive in teams, you round out your character via powerpools. I do and I don't, being an altaholic I like characters to vary by a lot..I mean why have 2 tanks if its all the same? A powerset has to offer fun, but it should be challenging more than fun if you like. No AT is actually plug in and play and in that I credit everyone with more intelligence.

I did in fact roll an /elec stalker on test..damn level bump..

I deliberately make gimped characters and I am usually the most inefficient in a team but usually its "in terms of"...most likely "dps" so I am never how people might imagine.

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When I analyse and test things I dont primarily base things around what I want, I try to take a much broader overlook on things.

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The whole trying to get a broader look on things is what I am trying to gain. Throw things your way, you throw things mine, we broaden. Did it in the Tanker section and gained from it. I am not actually in opposition to anyone. If something blatantly looks that way point it out but from my experience passing things back and forth can finally lead to getting to the bottom of something and I do like to think. Although it's nice to have to think but no one wants to see things be too hard. "Perhaps" just like I wouldn't suggest soloing a emp/elec to an enemy banes are just as bad, I am still pushing to find that out yet I am very doubtful. Some characters are better off in a team end of, an emps primary has heal aura and a couple of RAs to help itself "whoopee doo" that kind of challenging is not for me.

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As for you expecting people over 16 to be able to think for themselves, well thats just silly, after all, look at the governments over 18s vote in.

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Well these things happen XD

Teamed they're probably all great. On a Mace that stays in Melee I am seeking no less than 25% def. Surprising imo is that Surveillance doesn't debuff tohit. After spying you may say of learned of someones moves. Debuffing resistance I don't know about how that comes in at all except in maybe affecting weak spots. Debuffing Defense would come from learning someones moves but from knowing moves you should imo be lowering defense via countering and therefore lowering tohit at the same time. Debuffing tohit will then stack with your defense, good for dealing with the higher ranks. -Tohit in a roundabout way increases all defense. The debuff however could be wasted in an all VEAT team but I wouldn't expect to see them all of the time. On ranks such as bosses the -tohit could prove helpful but I am for suggesting -tohit in surveillance for realisms sake.

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U sir, win the analysis of the year award. Ur absolutely correct, PEOPLE ARE [censored] STUPID. That's the end of it. If you pour thousands of pounds/dollars into developing a game for a generation of einstein's to play, kiss ur money goodbye n00b because it won't work.

NCsoft need to make things that work for [censored] stupid people, and if smart people like once again praf and stalkobot, with his infinite resources can't make sense of these pieces of [censored], then why the hell should we bother playing them? It's up to ncsoft to make sure we know what to do, how to do it.

BTW has anyone found a version of mids with VEATs in them? i'd appreciate a link thanks.

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I kinda fell about laughing at this XD

I might come to expect a fix to Banes, "just what?" Will be the question. Do they really deserve to be able to have I dunno say 60% def in PvP if they gave it 10% base def in Combat Training: Defensive or is that overpowered? Afaik maybe they were never meant to have such a high recharged placate to begin with and if so then I wouldn't hold too much hopes.

Look at whats in the Bane Soldier Primary, then look at whats in Bane Spider Training. There you go thats what Banes have. The Training and Gadgets, thats not just got to partly suit Banes, it has the tall order of suiting Crabs as well and Wolf Spiders if you made one.

Personal expectations outside of those sets are most likely "to be expected" to have to come from power pools. The game is meant to be challenging as well as fun, a person could play it, that person could make the mistake of gimping themself as with any AT but the Devs aren't allowed to give advice on how to build. That in mind expect to make things up with power pools. Fight Pool looks good for the blapper, aid self after placate is still natural.

The game doesn't require anyone to have to IO set, SOs are fine just make the build and play compliment each other. Perhaps things are the way they are to allow flexibility and when using power pools your not becoming over powered.

In the mid levels you respec into Bane which is in itself a bonus because you can more likely make sure you have those specifically useful to you pool powers in place.

The game has a 16 rating on it. I'd expect people above the age of 16 to think for themselves, learn and adapt on SOs alone. Some people make better scrappers than defenders and thats the way it is.

You all made the Bane sound challenging, not doing fun, that made me start leveling one a few days ago, my comments are to try and entice the core of the problem which could be "no one took weave"

I have been finishing a rather nice planned builds for all the VEATs. 8 different types, 2 of each. The powers lend themselves to several types. All the power pools are open to help round off the type your making, and IO sets a rank it up, with not even the most sought after I have no trouble reaching elude levels of defense. In planning builds I was picking IO sets I don't normally consider. I felt that new territory is what it is and there is a chance they all lack something. They sure will built wrong.

Gratz Standoff!

No there are little things that some players need several for the win sets for that some players do on thin air. If your team couldn't do something as a team it didn't mean its impossible. You maybe just looking at things from the wrong angle. With that in mind plus that some players are okay with banes whilst others are not I am perfectly within my rights to speculate it. I have been using the word speculate a lot as I am still going through things myself with my limited time and so I am not presenting anything as fact unlike some.

P.S. The Germans and the French do just as well, they aren't disadvantaged at all and if they have no problems the devs are unlikely to hear from them.

My thoughts on it was:

Weapon Attack cast times = always slightly more than redraw time.
Attack cast time no redraw = lets say 1 sec.
Attack cast time with redraw = 1 sec.
Redraw could of taken 0.5 secs.

So the whole thing has a cut off point but with too short an animation that are rare in weapon sets (I really don't know any under 1 sec otomh though) it can't be done.

(I shouldn't play and write. I end up dead).

Edit: (Was a Bane btw)

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Crediting them with some intelligence.

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Some, but not to much. There where loads of people telling Castle that Stealth IOs in auto powers would be broken, on the US forums to, but he went ahead anyway.

There are loads of people saying Electric Armor is broken on stalkers, but has there been any change?

So, no, I think the devs will operate a suck it and see policy. let it go live as is, then fix it a couple of years down the line when the data mining results are in. I hope I'm wrong.

As for a secret hidden way to play bane spiders wich makes them good but no one is smart enough to have figured out yet!!??? Might as well believe that Elvis is alive and working a milkman in Birmingam.

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I am Elvis

No but I couldn't help but notice there are more than the usual ways to skin a cat with this game and considered that they made a character where people have to think. Rather than run in mash keys win.

So you have a weapon in your hand. You kick and redraw that weapon again and they want it to lower your dps? I was aware that too many powers had a attack, pose, attack, pose to them and by removing the redraw time they'd be speeding up the set. Now whilst you have the weapon your okay but the first attack has redraw to it. Aww I see VG is rifle.

I saw the title and thought:

You kidding me?

For me, all tanks are painful to solo but if you do Death Shroud is king for a long time...all the way to...probably frozen aura. Find out what the best lvl and type of mobs you can comfortably defeat 10 at a time with (which is the maximum death shroud can effect) and aim for best xp/time. If solo with an attack chain I may of beat up four (as Ice) and the damage aura has helped on those 4 plus defeated the other 6 but thats with icicles, death shroud might be less damage (don't know) but less resisted so yeah even solo I would gather. Death Shroud is probably a waste of time if your not hitting 4 or more with it.

Venom Grenade: Redraw should be factored into the cast time. With or without redraw the cast time should be the same. Its a new set with which such a mistake shouldn't be made. Does it take longer than 1.87 secs with the redraw? For only solo : After working out the net effect of using it over 16 secs you may just makes some profit from its use back (I'd hope so, I mean why take it to break even?).

I won't speculate further on the rest of it, I think I'd sooner excel it which is really boring.

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SO the simple answer would be to beef up their melee defense and ability.

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So simple. So now why didn't the Devs think of that? Crediting them with some intelligence. There is probably a reason. A reason that by us, just needs to be found.

I would if interested, first look for that reason. Then if one can't see it, buy a US account in order to be heard , then explain things in ways they can understand; "numerically"; with less of the [censored] words.

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Without me mathing it, the burst dps looks awfully close to stepping on a stalkers toes but burst damage I guess is essential to what Banes do.

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You need to do the math then. Bane (or Widow) burst damage isn't even close to what stalkers are capable of. Even a stalker who neglects to take AS will do more burst damage.

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I don't see a point to taking things too far on figures that could change, that I can't personally neither confirm nor deny but I have built characters to see what I can do with them and set them to the same settings on Mids.

I was thinking in terms of being without the AS. As it is in many large steam roll teams I can expect AS to be interrupted, it often would of been quicker and more efficient to of gone in and just attacked so lets say I just do that.

I will still regard a character as Assassin like when you can crit out of hide. For burst without the use of an AS strike your talking about the initial chain. Do a melee orientated Bane build and a average Stalker build (an average one, so not EM) on Mids and set the configuration to how you like (some use dam and chance) and set the builders power stats to do base damage.

Shatter, pulverise and bash looks good. Bash looks good compared to everything on a Ninja Blade but for Soaring Dragon and Golden Dragon, the last two powers and its the Banes level 1 power but you do respec it in at 25.

Anyway I went to Red Tomax, Shatter from hide at base was 102.63 per sec of cast time but a stalkers golden dragon fly from hide was 94.14 per sec of cast time. I'd need to do all attacks like that and add up the total of the attack chain.

I don't know if anyone wants to, but leave out the AS and see what the best first attack chain can look like for yourself on a Bane and on a Ninja Stalker. How much damage can you do with the first chain of melee attacks? It was all quick to do for me when I could use an attack chain planner but being my mums birthday I have too small a snippet of time to bother getting into it right now.

Do powers taken, damage, base only on power stats and set the scales the same, have all of the ninja blade attacks and have bash, mace beam, pulverise, shatter, venom grenade and crowd control and look at them bars. Banes even do better dam per unit of end.

Overall with the swings and roundabouts working out if something is balanced or not takes an enormous amount of time.

Theory Alert:

Banes shouldn't really be stepping on a Stalkers toes in the art of assassination. Without question.

Without me mathing it, the burst dps looks awfully close to stepping on a stalkers toes but burst damage I guess is essential to what Banes do.

Especially as people in teams don't really care for stalkers as it is you really don't want the stalkers toes stepped on too much completely invalidating them but you have to allow Banes decent burst damage in melee as I guess thats what they do.

So perhaps another thing a Bane shouldn't be stepping on a stalkers toes with, therefore is prolonged melee dps and so they aren't given the survivability to have a prolonged position in melee range which probably only shows against higher ranks.

When soloing a Bane you can say come close to stepping on a stalkers toes in terms of burst damage but then be forced to kite and blast at a lower rate of damage to survive to prevent further stepping on stalkers toes. I know your solo but I guess they have to leave people at least some reason for people to make a stalker.

Range dps is lower than melee dps leaving stalkers in terms of damage over time a better choice to have in teams instead of Banes..like people care . Banes however can for one, buff other people in teams probably making them more attractive in an alternative way.

Either way I don't see the VEATs completely finalized until they go live where the better datamining can be done and you can probably make a bane that steps on a stalkers toes in terms of dps over a long period of time if you want to.

As I haven't gone through attack chains I could be talking complete balls right now but nothings ever stopped me before.

But overall, somehow I feel I have shifted into the "sod banes, what about stalkers?" camp.

No lol, he has a US account. We don't actually get the same benefits or bang for buck. Not worried though. I am sure once knowing what its like to have a lvl50 of them, sometimes the cat would of been killed and only sentimentality could bring them back.

You all got a level boost I take it?

Well guess who not only has a lvl 50 TA/A but a Emp/Psi as well. Dammit I could of helped here as well but Miss Appear has beat me to it XD

Check mids to see what "each and every 3rd slot" gives and decide whether or not its better elsewhere in your build. I hastened mine, I do recommend that. I have no kb protection which works for me as someone who should be a rear guard buffer to avoid being AoE'd and/or mezzed etc anyway.

Feel your way on choosing power but just know how to slot...For that you just read Mids.

I have a TA/A with full TA, full med pool, full vengeance pool, hover, flight and hasten. Can be done.

Most teams its np, cos you end up with some end buffer on it anyway or they are good big teams that have low fight durations but then some teams ie 1 tank, 1 scrapper a big hairy AV and lil ol me me for their survivability, endurance becomes an issue. Then I need to sparingly not over use certain powers. It is in order to save end for use on the more important ones which if "knee-jerked" to use EMP ain't easy. The one power that is easily over-stacked is Entangling. You haven't picked it but around minimalist tanks (those that get by on thin air) against certain enemies it can be a good thing.

You don't need med pool and you don't need leadership pools. I do because I fancied them, more for flexibility in support, end of story.

Your power choices says "some solo-ability". Down that road I'd say fitness pool is likely, with small teams I also know its a good thing. For an outside pool other than say speed and fitness which are best I'd suggest med pool. Topping up someones health between fights ain't a bad thing.

Pick powers and slot them. If I think you've perhaps over done something don't worry you'd know. Stamina-less builds are now since the cast time changes..sodding tight.

Slot basic IOs or SOs, I looked at sets, mostly imo its really not worth worrying about unless its attacks ofc.

I only see specific roles depending on how you build it.

The word "Protector" springs to mind with Maneuvers and with Night Widows Vengeance; as say other VEATs drop (die); the teams overall def may also drop; so worth taking to some through thought of the team or worth taking to not have lowered defense yourself. As a Night Widow: Vengeance + Maneuvers = Elude. Then you have Assault and Leadership which are team friendly, not always as convenient or as likely to be needed as much as maneuvers imo. Surveillance: Not knocking that ever. If you buff the team then you will most likely bring something to a team.

If you wish to solo thats a different kettle of fish. I made a soloable character on a planner. It had tough and weave. Def got high enough 35% - 42% iirc (I didn't save it). Because you don't achieve great hp I fitted in Aid self. Placate to aid self should work then crit after. Res wise about 28% iirc, smash and lethal. Poor everywhere else and therefore unless burst damage or something I don't worry about deems otherwise not a great PvP build but I do see all VEATs as limited in PvP alone.

In fitting those powers in, I stuck with Mace melee attacks and maybe 1 ranged for chain filling. I dropped long recharge ones like reinforcements. Its great but they won't be about all the time so I must not rely on them. No haste involved as I am not thinking of relying on long recharges and def based sets don't get -rechg'd as much I would sure as hell imagine compared to res sets anyway.

Like anything when you make yourself stronger in one aspect your weaker in another so whatever priorities conclude, you may have to forget some much desired power.

I know of one person who has been "omg this is poo", leveled up, respeced into a new build and become a lot happier.

PS did enjoy that link.

<--confused shouldn't have a sad face.

Vigilance und Zukunft = Qualitat/Menge

I had a go at that the other day! People didn't stay together well so don't have too much of a non functioning brain.

Ever notice how the posts with the arguments get the most views?

Its very difficult to cater to each and every of the 140+ thousand people in the game. Thats a good thing though as, that can mean in hearing some peoples ideas on what they wanted they can come up with new ideas...a bit like speculation, speculation on whats upcoming can be used to improve things before people see things.

To be fair, there are power pools and a million ways to slot but then you have to make compromises for the sake of being balanced with other people in PvE. In PvP you might as well rewrite the whole game to create balance.

Someone could slot and make extra power pool choices for your character and it could be totally wrong for how you try to play it. Throw something in the build.

A guide to Trick Archery