New Dawn

I see both tough and aid self on EM/ELAs who like to solo AVs. Thats generally seems done only to an extent with accolades and insps helping though.

I did take poisonous ray straight after pulverise!

If some coward runs off its only right to shoot them in the back!

(Actually felt I may have to be in and out of melee at times and poisonous ray came under a good attack to take).

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Oh and playing on test only spoiled it for yourselves,


[/ QUOTE ]

No it didn't i waited a long time for the open beta so i could play banes, and i thoroughly enjoyed them, now i'm making one on live servers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I chose to quote this just to show how Devs scored a win/win with Banes. Here is why there is a win win:

1) Some people who are complaining about Banes being sub par clearly care about them and still find them fun.
2) Some people don't complain about Banes, like a challenge and find them fun.
3) Put points 1,2 and 3 together.

Sure there maybe changes but usually Castle does something that nobody else came up with because its like the unwritten law in making people see why he is the powers guy and nobody else is...or maybe its just further datamining + tentatively balancing things based on real figures.

Only some closed testers are really notable, there are many, many others who are no more useful than the open beta testers, in fact, maybe, they're complete pug material, but you may need that pug material (especially in terms of knowing if something is as fun as it could be) and they may haplessly find some bug. Sometimes that PuG material picks up an AT and with a knee jerk whines, min/maxxing nothing, taking in the big picture not and gives it the "if I can play it or make it good in 5 mins no one can". Personally I'd prefer further live datamining by Castle.

Crumbs!

I am seeing remarkable similarities from both builds in comparison to what I planned XD

I'll properly compare when I get time...but I went Web Cocoon (hold, -fly, -rechg, -jump and slow) instead of Bayonet but then you guys like damage more. I aim to hold one foe and pull the rest with it, if solo thats 1 held and 2 on their way followed by placating one leaving me to have to deal with the last one one fast before placate runs out and keeping the one held constantly held throughout...ofc I will simply be on the setting that I can only just about get by on when solo.

I think though my attack chain don't need Bayonet, as any gap isn't that large. There maybe redraw going from Mace on to Bayonet followed by another redraw going back on to Mace and so the total DPS of the attack chain may suffer from getting the rifle out and putting it back again, but tbh I don't know, maybe you can tell me. I haven't followed the redraw situation at all.

If I make a Wolf Spider (ranger) I'd really want Web Grenade more than Cocoon in order to kite and rely comfortably on ranged def but as a Bane in melee Cocoon looks better.

<--possibly in an all Bane team though XD

Trust it to be you to fall into my wording trap XD.

Iirc I get in the region of 5000 hp on my bots and then there might be me to add. Way past totaling to the tankers hp.

The flexibility in taunt control tells me "don't expect to Tank as well as a MM as you would a Tank or Brute". ...I know, I had been trying this morning..

I see more of a survivability buff made up by a; bit here so your better defensively; and a bit there so your more offensive and have a lower fight duration; mainly. The differences, noticeable or not, depending on how one is played, will still exist.

[ QUOTE ]
It wasn't a debatable point, it was a statement of factual intent MMs relative HP surpasses Tanker HP anyway and I'm sure their resistance/defense values come close (ala Bodyguard mode)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll check that out later, I very much doubt an MM adds up to a tanks hp total. MMs are easily taken down with aoes and I call that a bit of a weakness..like khelds tanking when in the mob there is a...and what about taunt control and mezz protection? MMs are bleak at tanking except in terms of sending in the expendible first.

I made a plant/empath..i thought id never again with the /empath but it just feels right and looks good, mine looks better than Zenflower Spammed heal aura looks more forgivable anyway!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Having enemies attack you and and attacking them is what builds fury, and brutes are the villainous tanks. So to speak.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, a redname posted to say that MMs were the Tank "equivalent" which makes Brutes the Scrappers...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah cos MMs can have better taunt control and no Brutes can't get their hp as high as tanks nor reach the res cap of 90% etc ...

I don't think I agree on what was actually meant by "equivalent". Brutes are Brutes, they will vary, or be made to vary in what they can do. Its just that one can more generally suggest that with most peoples basic idea of play and that Brutes aren't either Tank nor Scrapper; its a better idea to see MMs do the running in first...although so many are at the back preferring players to die rather than have to get pets back out

Some types of Brutes can, through buffs, be made into Tankers whereas MMs are actually far too limited in the taunt control department to become as close.

I don't see a real need for tanks in CoV as much as CoH so what Brutes do is down to the player...mine will object to not being the most feared and therefore the one everyone has to try to defeat whilst their numbers are still high.

I see super reflexes as more scrappery but then Brute SRs have an aura to attract aggro. I do reckon one can tank the LRSF. The method however may differ from the norm.

Do you use every attack?
Do you have any clear intentions?


Power choice wise have what the hell you like! We can turn it into something but if you removed taunt or the aura or called it PVP I won't consider looking at it. Sadly right now I am busy so only will ask the above questions. At a push I can look at this Sunday. Between now and then you could consider what I say on slots:

Slot-wise I think your either over or under enhancing powers. Major overhaul needed.

Basic Example: 3rd end in tactics saves you 0,02 end per sec if it was a second end in in foc acc you'd save 0,19 end per sec.

See what I am saying? Its like that with everything and even goes the opposite way where your trying to add too much damage only to be enhancement diversified down again, an arrangement of slots for your bonuses wanted can probably be had without making a single slot worth much much less than it should be.

[ QUOTE ]
you seem to be all over the place with 'what you want' from a tank this build is survivable and can deal quite good damage if it's not you to your tastes thats ok

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.30
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php

Phobos-: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability
(A) Aegis - Resistance: Level 50

(3) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

(3) Resist Damage IO: Level 50

(13) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50

Level 1: Barrage
(A) Accuracy IO: Level 50

Level 2: Dull Pain
(A) Numina's Convalescence - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

(5) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50

(5) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50

(7) Numina's Convalescence - Heal: Level 50

(7) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance: Level 50

(9) Healing IO: Level 50

Level 4: Bone Smasher
(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50

(13) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50

(15) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50

(17) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge: Level 50

(21) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance: Level 50

(50) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

Level 6: Resist Physical Damage
(A) Aegis - Resistance: Level 50

(15) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50

(17) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance: Level 50

Level 8: Unyielding
(A) Aegis - Resistance: Level 50

(9) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50

(11) Resist Damage IO: Level 50

(11) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50

Level 10: Taunt
(A) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge: Level 50

(31) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Recharge/Range: Level 50

(34) Perfect Zinger - Taunt/Range: Level 50

(34) Perfect Zinger - Taunt: Level 50

(34) Perfect Zinger - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50

Level 12: Combat Jumping
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50

Level 14: Super Jump
(A) Jumping IO: Level 50

Level 16: Swift
(A) Run Speed IO: Level 50

Level 18: Invincibility
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50

(19) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 50

(19) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge: Level 50

(21) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50

Level 20: Health
(A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery: Level 50

(25) Numina's Convalescence - Heal: Level 50

(25) Healing IO: Level 50

(37) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration: Level 30

(48) Miracle - +Recovery: Level 40

Level 22: Stamina
(A) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50

(23) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50

(23) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50

Level 24: Whirling Hands
(A) Armageddon - Damage: Level 50

(43) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge: Level 50

(45) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50

(46) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50

(46) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance: Level 50

(46) Accuracy IO: Level 50

Level 26: Tough Hide
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50

(27) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 50

(27) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50

Level 28: Build Up
(A) Adjusted Targeting - Recharge: Level 50

(29) Adjusted Targeting - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

(29) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Recharge: Level 50

(40) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance: Level 50

(43) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

(43) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff: Level 50

Level 30: Hasten
(A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50

(31) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50

(31) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50

Level 32: Unstoppable
(A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50

(33) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50

(33) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50

(33) Resist Damage IO: Level 50

Level 35: Energy Transfer
(A) Hecatomb - Damage: Level 50

(36) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50

(36) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50

(36) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge: Level 50

(37) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance: Level 50

(37) Accuracy IO: Level 50

Level 38: Total Focus
(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50

(39) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50

(39) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50

(39) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

(40) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

(40) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50

Level 41: Stun
(A) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge: Level 50

(42) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50

(42) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge: Level 50

(42) Absolute Amazement - Stun: Level 50

(50) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun: Level 50

(50) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50

Level 44: Resist Elements
(A) Resist Damage IO: Level 50

(45) Resist Damage IO: Level 50

(45) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance: Level 40

Level 47: Resist Energies
(A) Aegis - Resistance: Level 50

(48) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50

(48) Resist Damage IO: Level 50

Level 49: Super Speed
(A) Run Speed IO: Level 50

------------
Level 1: Brawl
(A) Empty

Level 1: Sprint
(A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth: Level 50

Level 2: Rest
(A) Empty

Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
+4.5% DamageBuff
+1.58% Defense(Fire)
+1.58% Defense(Cold)
+68% Enhancement(Accuracy)
+60% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
+76.8 (6.38%) HitPoints
+MezResist(Confused) (Mag 27.5%)
+MezResist(Held) (Mag 27.5%)
+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 35.2%)
+MezResist(Sleep) (Mag 27.5%)
+MezResist(Stun) (Mag 27.5%)
+MezResist(Terrorized) (Mag 30.3%)
+12% Recovery
+54% Regeneration
+7.56% Resistance(Fire)
+7.56% Resistance(Cold)
+1.26% Resistance(Energy)
+1.26% Resistance(Negative)
+6% Resistance(Psionic)
+20% RunSpeed
------------
Set Bonuses:
Aegis
(Temp Invulnerability)
+5% RunSpeed
Numina's Convalescence
(Dull Pain)
+12% Regeneration
+22.6 (1.88%) HitPoints
Crushing Impact
(Bone Smasher)
+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 2.2%)
+13.6 (1.13%) HitPoints
+7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
+5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Aegis
(Resist Physical Damage)
+5% RunSpeed
+1.575% Def( Fire, Cold)
+3% Resistance(Psionic), +MezResist(Confused) (Mag 20%), +MezResist(Held) (Mag 20%), +MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 20%), +MezResist(Sleep) (Mag 20%), +MezResist(Stun) (Mag 20%), +MezResist(Terrorized) (Mag 20%)

Aegis
(Unyielding)
+5% RunSpeed
Perfect Zinger
(Taunt)
+MezResist(Terrorized) (Mag 2.75%)
+10% Regeneration
+5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
+2.5% DamageBuff
Luck of the Gambler
(Combat Jumping)
+7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)

Luck of the Gambler
(Invincibility)
+10% Regeneration
+13.6 (1.13%) HitPoints
Numina's Convalescence
(Health)
+12% Regeneration
Armageddon
(Whirling Hands)
+4% Recovery
+2.52% Res(Fire, Cold)
+15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
+10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Luck of the Gambler
(Tough Hide)
+10% Regeneration
+13.6 (1.13%) HitPoints
+7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)

Adjusted Targeting
(Build Up)
+2% DamageBuff
+1.26% Res(Energy, Neg)
+9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
+5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
+7.5% Status Effect Duration Reduction
Hecatomb
(Energy Transfer)
+4% Recovery
+2.52% Res(Fire, Cold)
+15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
+10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Crushing Impact
(Total Focus)
+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 2.2%)
+13.6 (1.13%) HitPoints
+7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
Mako's Bite
(Total Focus)
+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 3.3%)
Absolute Amazement
(Stun)
+4% Recovery
+2.52% Res(Fire, Cold)
+15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
+10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Impervium Armor
(Resist Elements)
+3% Resistance(Psionic)

Aegis
(Resist Energies)
+5% RunSpeed

[/ QUOTE ]

Add the Import File here:

[ QUOTE ]
Is the relative level of team members never a consideration for all you empaths when dishing out the goodness?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is for me. My priorities are in trying to save people and even more so in trying to give them the freedom of being able to save themselves. End of Story. Any 3 most likely to need healing get fort then things run smooth. A blaster nuking isn't necessarily going to see AB either.

Most likely.

Lost on what your getting at with perma invincibility though.

I might have a KB IO spare. I am pretty sure I have. I don't like having to take acro neither. The End drain to End recovery gap isn't all that wide to me as it is but without the inf for it I'd have to take acro as kbs would drive me nuts. On a squishy whose ranged I don't mind but on a melee character forget it. Whatever server that kb IO is thats where my banes going.

I only ever really summoned them within a mob to make them stack and actually attack but now I can Dwarf form in and have them attack it's much better

Its an astronomical Buff. Thats tipped it. Bye bye fitness pool and allo more situationally useful powers and more usefulness in teams.

Edit: From an Assault Rifles standpoint.

Punch is often dropped to fit in air sup. Handclap and Hurl are rarely seen on most builds but maybe kept depending on what ya like whilst punch is swapped for air sup. Fitting powers in has to be done somehow. Punch is slightly better in all things apart from air sups more popular secondary effect which does makes air sup more worth having.

Your build doesn't offer you as many attacks to an end bar as it could or at the other end of the spectrum even in terms of burst dps it doesn't have the best recyclable attack chain to it for a basic IO slotted build. If all those powers are must haves, in that order, then there is a better way to slot. If your taking an attack more out of attack chain filling and you'd rather not have it then again there is a good chance you can be rid of it. A power that could be felt like a necessity in the early levels may not be but if your finally happy with what you got and its a great build to play then thats all good. I will stop trying to throw possibilities for you to think on your way in order for you to make the differences yourself. They're only possibilities because your the only one playing your character for you.

I went for 6 slotting all the attacks, slotting to get the best attack chain you can have with the least amount of attacks that you like to make room for every bit of buffage you can give yourself. Look at how much on average attack chain costs, add it to toggles and compare the total end drain to end recovery to eek out the most attack chains to an end bar. Banes make me have to think they really do. Either I am just daft or the devs did produce something thats meant to make people think.

My planned attacks are Shatter, Pulverize, Crowd Control, Poisonous Ray and Bash. The rest is buffs, debuffs, control and support (pets) and I just wanted a build that could play well from 20. Acrobatics at 20 cos I really hate kb.

Whats right for one isn't good for all. It all comes down to intentions. People vary on what powers they would actually like and ask themselves "What would if they have to consider dropping something to meet those intentions, drop?"

Priorities: Looking at the build you had I thought ouch I would want knockback protection by 20 myself so I can SF whenever with the VG. Maybe you do too, maybe you don't but if you did, what would you consider the least essential to fit that power in? I would of looked at the attack chain, and see how it went, is it gappy? Is it the most economical? Have I more attacks than I need? Can I, by slotting differently close the gaps in it and lose an attack I really didn't fancy anyway? Are you taking a power because there was not much else to take? Are you sure you really need the levels of say acc or tohit you do in that level range or have you slotted it needlessly too early?

I'll tell you now, when I looked at your build, I didn't look at the pretty pictures and say yeah that looks right. I read the figs. I found that personally if I had to exemp and to the first SF I'd rather have acrobatics or some form of kb protection coming from my toon in order to enjoy it. Whilst going through the attack chain what is the endurance bar doing and how much are the end slots you put in really saving? Could I save more by putting end slots elsewhere? And so decided to not do what looks right or feels right but what I gain from the figures. Other people may find stamina more urgent and would sacrifice other things to get it and so on. Once sorted on how to roughly slot things you then have a build that can be used as a guideline. Some guidelines work out better than others.

My post may of followed on from yours Razor but it was in reply to Stalkobot and the comment about politics stems from Stalkobots comment.

[ QUOTE ]
As for you expecting people over 16 to be able to think for themselves, well thats just silly, after all, look at the governments over 18s vote in.

[/ QUOTE ]

All this is becoming far too much in the way of pointless spam and derail. I am really looking to get to "somewhere near" the bottom of things on as to why some people find Banes weak, unbalanced or unplayable while others don't. It must be in the builds and it must be in the play and right now its got my attention. Builds that are tight, challenging and basically a nightmare to get right can hopefully be made so much easier and better to play.

Razor, wake up, the build has you wasting a end IO on combat jump saving you 0,02 end per sec when it should be on powers like Mace Beam or Poisonous Ray saving a whole lot more and no one has pointed this out yet. Your attack chain is killing your endurance and you need to complete the slotting on 2 powers. Your throwing in slots for small weak changes when they could be so much more.

Power choices are personal and to be fair they don't look all to out of line from what some of the more positive Bane players have. Is this too similar to what you had power choice wise on test or in slotting? I do see problems slot wise but would need to know if power choice wise your doing yourself any justice here.

I will stipulate that any compulsory exemplaring for SFs won't need to take you below lvl 20 and so choosing your powers carefully, you can have a "playable at 20 build" and set yourself up for later levels to come. You may have say 1 less attack by 20 but what ya have may be all you need. Should you go time bandit and exemp way down to 6 for a mission all I can say is temp powers "and" slotting. They don't have to need many attacks anyways, so a bread and butter by then, still aint needed. Most people don't need a bread and butter attack chain by 6 I can tell you, ask yourself will you?

I'd forget sets for now and first come to know what your looking at in terms of what you really need and in doing the numbers. Simply adding sets doesn't save or make a build.

You haven't out-leveled your slotting or been playing with guys that slow your recharge down have you?

I have to ask silly questions because my SR looks okay.

Naturally ofc I can see a use for that character. Vengefodder.

Out of interest was that the build you had on test?

1) Don't go to Men In Black for knowledge.
2) No ones assuming anything but 2 things, people like fun and people like a challenge but its in overcoming a challenge that people can be more proud of.
3) People aren't stupid just because they aren't into politics. Politicians are devious and your damned whoever you vote for.
4) Having an IQ of 100 is good, not bad, but good. You can get anywhere in life through effort and the more you do something the quicker you get at it.
5) Various people don't come to the forums. Normally they don't have time for it. You say one thing and it gets turned into something else based on what someone adds and reads of it.
4) I wouldn't if I could reveal the Private Message but it was basically not what you though it was.
5) I am pretty sure I took exception to you thinking I was an advanced gamer compared to most. I was so sure it was me I was trying to denounce as an advanced gamer you know, so out of all the other things, where did you get that from?