New Dawn

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I'll leave what the powers actually do to the player; this is just a guide about how good they are, should you take them, etc.

If you really do want to know what they do, you can just search ParagonWiki. This is purely about how good they are. Editing to put ratings in.

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You gave a personal opinion.

I am of the opinion that people shouldn't tell other people what powers they should and shouldn't have and just to add, that people shouldn't tell people how they should play within a guide. Suggestions are fine.

I would say to someone that if they can't find anything good to say about any single power at all then their knowledge is questionable and rather than write a guide they should be reading them.

I also without a shadow of a doubt think the best way to produce a guide is with the assistance of peers to try and get as much useful information from as many different perspectives as possible rather than produce something thats a little bit one sided.

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What I have to ask you is Shannon, would you even consider playing a tank in a PvE based team that totally defies the whole purpose of a team tank?

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No. I will get another toon. I have altitis. I only tank to play as a tank. As a defender, if I do not feel I can function in the team due to no one helping themselves by offering me what I need to help them through set up and dynamic I will go find another team or get on another toon. As a kin I can't heal someone who doesn't go near a heal aura. Tanks have same prob, you can't help people who don't play in a way that helps you help them.

I would not mind if a controller, scrapper, defender or even blaster sets the next group up well for a tank to intercept aggro just in time. They may save time. A tank maybe focused on making sure people are fine in the one group they're are on whilst someone skilled sets up the next without completely outpacing the team. That level of skill is rare and often you may find someone is trying to show that level of skill and your having to make what I would call a recovery, basically pull together a complete and utter mess of things that needn't of had to be. When I see a debuff zone I prefer to see everything in it, not 3 foes in it and 13+ foes outside of it, I'd rather see large groups go down at once than fight one over here, run over there fight him there, run back to so and so who needs saving. My footstomp costs me 13 endpoints approx, I could either do 170 damage to one foe with it or 1700 damage to group with it. But I think one should look at it as 1700 damage in 2 secs as opposed to 170 damage in 2 secs. For blasters and scrappers they can do so much more and stack it.

A herded group can sometimes be done a good 6 times quicker than a spread one. Whats slow about herding is how people herd an already herded group, then pull them past 2 decent herdpoints to get to a more obvious one, the group was already herded just by them being in a '30ft diameter' of each other so just steam roll it. There was a time when Invincibility was bugged and extra caution was taken but thats passed, but some people still play to that caution. I see a group together, run in and footstomp to get attention.

I'd pull a whole group if there could be too many groups involved, maybe get a sigh from someone who doesn't have the extra 60% perception, or a map up like I have and avoid the protracted fight that people/I don't have the endurance for.

Some people run forward, run round, run back, I just taunt, hide and wait cutting out all that but for the enemy to run back. People only need to stay out of enemy perception by being typically 60ft back from me (herdpoints should sometimes try to offer range), and wait for my best gauntlet or a centre up and a couple of seconds for the aura to tick and they're fine.

One mission, someone said herding takes too long, it does if you have to tell people anything, like stay 60 ft back, wait for footstomp or ready or from a tankers fault, not pull to the nearest herdpoint or they run in, run round, run to a place that takes forever to get to. In a missions I may herd once or twice as a tank, steam roll rest. I am more likely to pull to me more as a scrapper due to squishiness, tighter herded groups get killed quicker, more get debuffed and so there is more safety and less fight duration.

I will make mistakes, I will lose sleep over it, I probably don't forget them and I often resort to maths, new experiences come but when it comes to old experiences I like to not have to repeat them.

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I see people twisting GGs words XD

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Except we aren't...

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Well I am not getting into spam for post counts with the are, are not, are too.

This is [censored] ridiculous.

I see people twisting GGs words XD

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It isn't sick and disguisting - the contacts who give their villains it are.

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And so are the Villains who accept them.

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...Actually...

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The villains are the characters people play in CoV.

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There is quite a difference between giving advice and telling them what to do. Or even more, wich i encountered this weekend, giving advice wich is wrong in the first place, but plain fromout his/her own 'perfect way' he learned.

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Some people are so used to speaking formally, the advice can be quick and in note form, sometimes its done so the team don't fail and sometimes its done out of caring for that player. I don't have time for essays. On timed trials, its a case of "Look just do as I say and ask why afterwards".

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If you are a 'group pull finish em' style person, who are you to tell a tanker that works by the 'jump in and keep em busy' style, that he's doing it totaly wrong?

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I is lost on how some people decide they are steamrollers and some pullers. Its best to just make a decision based on the group, room, number of groups, perception of the groups and what type of tank ya are. Invulns especially love getting a tight group but sometimes in getting the enemy to change from one damage type attack to another is so much better. The problem lies in people playing how they would alongside an icetank who loves mad recoveries with a stonetank.

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If someone is learning then what better way to learn than to listen to those who have done it, rather than ignore it and pretend the advice given is wrong. I have no problems with people who want to experiment, but HELL NO am I gonna team with someone who baltently ignores advice and screws over any chance of the team succeeding, and I think a lot of people would say the same.

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I believe in heroes when teamed, having to work as a team and that doesn't mean throw in some random moves neither. I think there is a better comic book feel when heroes have to try to work together more than villains, every good hero needs a greater villain. I posted about Fantastic Four and Dr Doom, they worked together, one proposed an idea and they went for it using their different powers at the right moments to get the win. In teams its in ya go "Ka-Pow! Bam! Thwap! Wham!". I don't mind I go with flow a lot of the time unless I am not in a good mood and thats when I'd rather try to play my toons by design.

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Also can I ask what is the point of a tank, whose primary focus in a team is to hold aggro away from the rest of the team, having power choices (whirlwind for example) that screws up his ability to do that?

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Well if someone wants whirlwind they can have it. I came across a bubbler and basically if the powers had no use for him he didn't have it, now I think buffing other people to perform better or easier is making it easier on yaself but in PuGs you meet random people who look like they may of never seen a team before and if they haven't then no wonder, who can blame them for all that self focus? I have characters designed for specific things, to a point its either get to move a certain way or come across rubbish but unlike GW ya cant download one build to replace another.

Invuln Brute + Cold Corrupter = Tanky!!

I dare say, one can make a brute which'll perform very similar to certain types of tanks against certain damage types.

Brutes I believe have same res cap and hp cap so what they can be buffed into and made capable off looks good.

If I made a Dark Storm I'd see synergy with Dark Pit and Thunderclap and stack them but to make them good would take some slotting and I'd likely use them situationally.

I don't know what it is with some people. You make a good pull, everything gets cleaned up super-fast and safely and you'd think they may go "that works" and stick to it.

But no.

You have to respect that some people are trying to learn the game, experimenting. Also at times in doing something more efficient one may have someone bodge it on you (ie herd messers) and cause you to look stupid (ie die over a longer than expected fight duration or be less buffed by number of foes) . Sometimes I wonder if put the round peg in the round hole is too major of an instruction. On the cavern trial I have had to go as far as telling people how to click on the stupid stone XD

I make mistakes, we all make mistakes, the difference between a good player and a bad player is someone who doesn't learn from them.

If I have had to tell someone 3 times, then they really take the biscuit.

As an ill/storm today, nothing could please me more than some tank handclapping mobs out of freezing rain. I noted him as a handclapper, left the team politely after and merely got on another toon. Sometimes i may suggest i pull that heck of a frightening mob with people looking at me as if i am mad but thats with ppl i will look forward to playing with more efficiently with later. We all have to find ways to gel or just find another team.

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What values should a typical Tank be looking for both of these?

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Tanks don't come in a typical way. Typically whatever is in the box should be fine after decent slotting. Power pools aren't supposed to be chosen out of necessity but out of rounding your character out. Basic Builds lets say a Full Inv and Full SS has everything in the box thats enough for basic PvE and its just a matter of people within a team playing in a way that they can all handle things. If one wants extra def as a firetank to stack with a co players buffs then one can take it.

Defense on a Firetank can be worth it.

I don't, if I can help it, choose peoples powers on them. I may make suggestions. I often only alter the slotting. Why? Because I don't know what they're up to and who they play with.

Teamed with a Mind emp then getting some def is nice, because once you add their fort + maybe manuevers where will your defense be at? Fort on a firetank so that BA has no chance of missing is a great thing as it can be needed for its tohit..so thats why you have no tactics maybe? With all the aggro comfortably on the tank, the direction of fire towards the tank then no one else has to get hit apart from a couple of those in melee and thats only from AoEs. The Mind controller can occasionally have to heal, keep an eye on fort but mainly keep to playing the mind control part, the part they made a controller for.

When permanently duoing with someone it maybe worth adding your build to theirs and having a play-style to suit. What may happen then is, your not over the top on anything and you can get more of something else.

When teaming with random defenders or controllers on any tank, I like to make it so what they have, stacks with what I have - and "hopefully" we can all try to play to suit.

Would I let a dark defender tankmage for my tanks and then I intercept before they're in trouble? Yes, if my confidence in them is there. Much easier.

Anyways I have a Mind/Emp and I have a Fire/Fire tank (go me! ).

If the OP would like someone like me to produce build suggestions of both so that they compliment each other and stack then thats no problem.

As for the def res question, I am all for a team trying to learn to do things in a manner that they can handle.

Evasion asap (I put quickness late). End slotting CJ is pointless. 2 defs in CJ is better than a 3rd Def in each passive (Thats using 1 extra slot instead of 3). 2 Health IOs or 3 Health SOs in health max, I am not sure I cared on mine. I doubt you'd need to end slot conserve unless your careless. 2 end slot Foc Acc. AoEs hit minions and 1 acc is fine, you may rather spin more over time or range shockwave for a better cone. Med pool is great paricularly for claws.

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Hi Shannon,

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You should be fine imo but as the powersets weren't essentially a meant to go together for Tankers (easier as Brutes imo). You may want to have 3 builds to level up with, respecing power order/choices as you go. Other than that, probably fine.

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I was slightly puzzled by this, why have you got reservations on Fire/Dark?
To me the combo should work very well; Fire giving AoE damage that DM lacks and DM providing good ST damage and extra survivability.
I'm tempted to make one myself, would be good in teams or solo - should excel as a scranker.

I can see no reason for multiple builds either.

Thanks in advance for your reply

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Sometimes in order to stay optimal for an intention its better to build one way until you can completely build into another and then respec.

Take my Elec/Elec. Whilst getting the pre-requisites for stamina I wouldn't be optimal, I would be optimal getting powers I could do with until I can actually take stamina and then respec the build. With so many vet reward respecs for me its an option.

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I quit the idea, got to lvl 28 but the sonic noises finally got to me. lol

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Ya know, some people play games to have something to do as they go thru their music collection

The gun drone is my cannon fodder.

I use it to take the first wave of attacks while I establish control with my control powers. It has all the survivability of another blaster, all the secondary effects are on it rather than me, it gets hurt, I don't as I lock foes down and its still may survive for another group.

I can now set it up away from mobs so and then bring it to them rather than mobs to it. (If I set up near mobs I could get aoe stunned as it opened fire and I was still rooted.)

My survivability has increased and I can play at a faster pace with the extra damage over time flowing from one group to another.

Not everyone will be happy, I get the impression some people will never be happy until they can go into a restaurant and be paid to eat a meal.

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even though your Scrapper would survive and kill most of the spawn anyway...

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Short of an spines scrapper, the time a fire/fire blaster takes to obliterate an 8 man spawn is a tiny fraction that a crude scrapper takes to cycle his attacks through a spawn.

Its called balance. And Blasters (particularly with defiance 2.0) simply leave scrappers trailing at a mighty distance in terms of damage, particularly in teams.

They just simply have more class and complexity. Im not saying they are more powerful, just they need more judgement, positioning and teamwork.

The Devs have always maintained that they designed some ATs to work well solo (and thus poorly in teams), noting scrappers for this role, and some to work very well in teams (and poorly solo) noting Defenders for this role. I imagine they consider Blasters, Tanks, and Controllers somewhere in thie middle.

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Scrappers are fine for teams, they lead in damage per second *not* in damage per second for all of 10 secs and then weaze/die.

Scrappers can also be used for tanking single hard targets channeling damage away from the team in an effort to keep damage and secondary effects off of the more vulnerable.

They're not useless in teams, nor good for nothing but they're not the most reliable in terms of support. They are the most solo-able but then somit has to be.

Blasters do alright with certain buffs, put those buffs on a scrapper and they should do even better over a longer period...on average.

You should be fine imo but as the powersets weren't essentially a meant to go together for Tankers (easier as Brutes imo). You may want to have 3 builds to level up with, respecing power order/choices as you go. Other than that, probably fine.

I would if I made one, with my intentions, try to rely on the -def of freezing rain to a point of using as few acc slots as poss in favour of other slotting, thats if with so many power picks that require good slotting.

No I read it, the way you read it afterwards and changed it during your reply, ie I told myself what you just said in your reply and changed what I put.

Edit: Thats without knowledge of your reply.

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Martial Arts as a Blaster Secondary has never been discussed or designed

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Some people have mentioned this since the launch of an Archery set for blasters.

Its a tricky build to look at for intentions I think.

I try to picture it in my head as to how I think its gonna play. Some slots are small buffs as in too small to notice. I would of, if Tactics from the ldrship pool was what I wanted, fitted it in earlier and pulled atleast 3 more slots into it. In Both types of Tactics: Ideally both Gaussian for extra def.

But slots come from somewhere and so would of looked for slots that are too small to notice or giving me something I don't need. What I would call too small to notice:

2nd health in Health 0.06hp/sec,
3rd acc in offense which rarely matters.
not even 1% resistance gained by a res slot in upgrade,
the extra 0.07 end rec from a stamina slot that could lower the cost in ldrship tactics by being an end instead and widen the end rec end drain window which is more important.

To look at other things:

Knowing what your attack chain will physically look like by laying it out and being sure you can keep the attacks flowing, without having too much recharge or too much range and knowing how many to an end bar you can dish (this is one thing what Sherksilvers was good for).

Happy Birthday

My question is, what do you want it for?

For debuffing mainly a high ranked ST + maybe more then go WAWG.
For mainly a power pick for another pet then go WE.

If thats all the stats your interested in then go for WE and get the pet.