New Dawn

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As soon as a character faceplants mobs loose all hate to that character, and so turn and attack the character with the next highest hate level. If there are no other taunting types around that will be the character who has most recently done the most damage to them - so the AOE blaster gets hammered.

I'm very suprised you haven't noticed this, its the main cause of cascade team wipes heroeside.

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I haven't noticed this as it hasn't happened. Sometimes I deliberately RotP because its "the right time" to fall and gain more end to carry on. Also I have a fire/fire blaster, ok again I'd enjoy RotP from the epics but I can make decisions on what powers to use and when.

About Icetanks theoretically being the only tank worth having in the team as they hold aggro best.

Some teams have been perfectly safe with a willpower scrapper in front herding. In fact it's been that good its got boring.

I try not to be interested in what players concepts are, I am only interested in what they bring to them as players.

The goal with me is to not be picky about powersets, that's choosing people without playing with them first. When asked what type of defender the team could do with the words any is all I am interested in having to say and if that means I have to spend time getting to know content then I will. I don't like PvP as its been more based on a choice of powersets than skill.

Fight pool adds flexibility, taunt adds flexibility, combat jump adds flexibility that's all people need to know and whether or not people find a power useful is down to them. Whether or not people choose to keep on playing with each other is down to them. What powers people decide on is of no concern to others. I find having taunt on scrappers infinitely better and know for a fact that there can be times when a scrapper with taunt can be more influential to a teams success than a granite without and at the same time it goes for a tank with fight pool than one with out fight pool. Do I want fight pool? No I like the fun of other powers and don't see a real need for it thru doing things differently.

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RotP is great as part of a theme not only that it offers a tank a chance to do something other tanks can't do which is make a recovery after a defeat. It means your not waiting idly in the hopes that someone can res you or give you an awaken while things carry on. You earn more xp/time on average from the level of offense compared to other tanks which balances things. Some people have hang ups about it but I don't. My ego doesn't extend to my characters, they're there for fun and no else has dropped as a result of it's use.

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Oh and Shannon.. dieing, then using RotP is a valid tanking tactic for a fire tank? That has to rate as one of THE most ridiculous suggestions I've ever heard.

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Can a Firetank, tank Lord Recluse unaided.

Yes/No?

I say yes myself.

From what I know. D'ya think thats ridiculous?

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I would love to see you do it.Fraps and youtube upload it please.This reminds me of that awsome super secret scrapper taunt technique

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You would never see it done or be shown it by me. This is not just in order to not benefit people like you from my experience but because I think if you put some whacky idea out there people may start to think and not give up on something that merely seems impossible.

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Can a Firetank, tank Lord Recluse unaided.

Yes/No?

[/ QUOTE ]With tough, yes, if they're very good and lucky, but it's still not pretty. And RotP'ing really isn't the tactic they'll be using.

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Absolutely no RotP needed or fight pool.

I RotP out of theme or a balls up.

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Oh and Shannon.. dieing, then using RotP is a valid tanking tactic for a fire tank? That has to rate as one of THE most ridiculous suggestions I've ever heard.

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Can a Firetank, tank Lord Recluse unaided.

Yes/No?

I say yes myself.

From what I know. D'ya think thats ridiculous?

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Taunt makes you more effective at holding aggro. End of story.

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Chilling Embrace makes you more effective at holding aggro. Therefore never team with a tank without Chilling Embrace. End of story.

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Green jet isn't about to back me up but we did a test: Blazing aura versus Chilling Embrace. Somehow we had the same amount of foes interested in both of us, some nearer him and some nearer me. Thing with Blazing Aura though is it doesn't automatically hit as you can be tohit debuffed to hell. Anything that taunts can steal aggro of off other people with less or no taunt though and allowing for it is what matters. Scrappers Blazing Aura doesn't taunt at all.

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Another factor to take into account is how much aggro can a tank survive?

A Fire/Fire tank generates a lot of aggro simply by virtue of doing a lot of AOE damage. If they taunt as well, they may well faceplant as they don't have the highest suvivability, and a faceplanted tank is about the worst possible thing for team survival.

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No, Firetanks can usually then RotP.

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When the fire tank faceplants all thier aggro is imediatly transfered to the rest o the team, so by the time they have used RotP the team is wiped.

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I have never had that...I have never seen it transfer to the team!

Tips on impending doom.

Stick RotP on auto, works asap.

No there are people being funny.

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I'd probably stop at 4 cause nothing shy of GW is worth 2 slots that could be doing something better

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And there is me needing one less slot with Ghost Widow than I do Recluse. Go figure

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Another factor to take into account is how much aggro can a tank survive?

A Fire/Fire tank generates a lot of aggro simply by virtue of doing a lot of AOE damage. If they taunt as well, they may well faceplant as they don't have the highest suvivability, and a faceplanted tank is about the worst possible thing for team survival.

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No, Firetanks can usually then RotP.

Nothing wrong with your knowledge on game mechanics?

There is not a lot that you've said that has led me to believe otherwise.

I took the quote to which I replied...

"Something said by someone trigger happy with less knowledge in game mechanics."

...as something a third person to say.

However, the only difference in a ranged taunt role and a CE role isn't in the debuff nor is it simply in taunting from a squishie whilst say maintaining a debuff zone. It can be used to lower the DPS to oneself and to the team which maybe needed in times of when one is lacking in support versus an enemy that exposes your weaknesses.

Your doing it wrong if...leads to an absolute and Your doing it right if...leads to an absolute and still can be classed as a tip and a opinion.

If you read my tones towards other guides serious or not, they differ. Too much seriousness can lead to not knowing which parts aren't that serious and which parts are.

I edited my previous post to further things.

Warning: Guide will contain nothing but opinions.

I could quote both a Dev and Mod on what they think about telling people how to play, but I think ya know what it'll be anyway.

The your doing it right if and the your doing it wrong if, without certain circumstances comes across as binary.

It did surprise me that this was the guide you did, as I believe, especially from your character builds that there is so much more.

In looking at that build I don't see much need for stamina.

Any "no logic to the putting away of the rifle" do you think?

Happy Birthday.

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Perhaps one should consider not WHY TAKE TAUNT?, but WHY NOT?


[/ QUOTE ]Because every single power in my build is more useful than it, and there are still several other powers that would be, but don't fit in.

As for taunting far-away mobs off squishies, I've found that a fire ball in the face does the job quite well.

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It can and hit more enemies. However, it doesn't do all the jobs taunt can do quite as well.

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An Ice tank with CE but no taunt will be able to hold aggro far more effectively than a WP tank with taunt.

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Just generally and sooner but not always more effectively. I have both.

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Lets do a little comparison between CE and Taunt:

CE: Max mobs affected: 10, frequency 0.5 seconds

Taunt: Max mobs affected: 5, max frequency, about 4 seconds.

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But they are tools that don't do exactly the same thing.

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"I refuse to team with any tank wich is not Ice, they are the only tank that can hold aggro efficently, In fact only Ice/ are true tanks".

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Something said by someone trigger happy with less knowledge in game mechanics.

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You know the sort of tanks that loose there aggro to high damage blasters?

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Nigh 100% of the time they either didn't get to gain taunt control on that mob or the taunt duration ran out, the run out bit is bad, but incase of some auras, kbs, travel speed etc and I am talking for a moment here, can't always be helped. As a blaster myself, I could watch a tank run in to a group. I don't expect immediate taunt control it doesn't necessarily happen and when it does happen I have to have an idea of who its happened on exactly. Not all auras are autohit, not all taunt ticks happen at the same rate, an attack may miss or the opening attack may have a small area of gauntlet, the aura is only so wide. You can choose who to target and who to be within perception range of, but once the tanker has struck a foe I only hope that after taunt control isn't lost.

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Those that don't do any damage because they are spamming taunt.

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I am someone who taunts, attacks, checks (pan camera and that) taunt. In leveling up you can't win, you can't please everyone. The hard thing is that you can only make so many "real" mistakes, end up in a level 24 respec pick up group and expected to perform with other players who have also made mistakes and so its best to choose your mistakes, I'd rather have a ranged aggro puller in those circumstances.

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a - no power in this game is really 'needed'. Even stamina could be done without if you slot for end reduction
b - every team is able to finish every mission if youre use team play and smarts. Some will take ages longer. But you will get there.
c - if you faceplant from attacking... you would have done so alone too. Don't blaim you're team mates for youre mistake... and as suc... don't blaim the tank. Taunt of no taunt.

We are not bound to specific team builds. Time and time again I noticed that in COX its far less important then WOW for instance.

ps. My tanker made 43 now.. without taunt. SS/Inv, and I never missed it. And no team member noticed it missing. If I think it fits the toon concept oir I have a slot free to distribute I will take it, other wise not. I will prob get it on my willp brute later in the higher levels.

All can make their own choices and team members calling me names because of my choices that I made on purpois are just not social or themselves terrible players. In such a way they need a god team to survive.

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Did you post that reply to me deliberately and if so for what reason? I don't appear to be last reply or owner post.

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neehh.. It was to the whole issue of 'needing' a power or a team member. That always bugged me. I like creativity. And I hate the .. 'we-need-a-tanker' or 'we-need-a-healer' remarks... long before the team actually tried to think about their tactics.

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Totally agree but because I wasn't last poster I was wondering if you felt you "needed" to make some point to me.

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The fine-tuning comes as you learn what suits your style best and how there are situational exceptions to every basic idea.

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You should of said this in the post of personal opinion. Then it looks more like a guide.

I agree that 1 empath and 7 blasters can work wonders, but they can also team wipe fast, only takes one mess up which could be from anyone. A mishap is fine, no one is perfect, an exact repeat of it though can be seen as for emphasis; [censored] stupid.

I think the buffs are well worth watching and waiting for. I happen to hate having to watch usually 3 or more peoples healthbars lower who aren't even close together, as someone else cries out zzzz. The job is to prevent defeats but without the ability to heal thru walls, be in two places at once, perform several actions at once, a team of people who know something about what they're doing is preferable. And then even with really good teams, the heals happen to only happen now and then, which is "great" for me as I do not see an empath as a healer.

I'd rather 2nd heal slot fast healing and health than 6 slot HPT but that depends on what one wants to put in HPT at some later point. Look at health sets. +hp is +regen and there are +regen and +end rec heal enh. 1 of the end mods in stamina may not be too easily noticeable just like the taunt in rttc so there is a possible free up of 2 slots.

I wouldn't single slot resurgence with a +end proc as its worth less than a basic end mod. I can't help but choose gaussian in tactics whilst adjusted targeting is fine in build up.

Sometimes figures look ever so nice but still maybe they're figures you don't need. Its upto you to look at your build and how its doing during a fight. If endurance is really never a problem ask why the third slot in stamina, you have 2 recharge in resuscitate but it takes 32.5 endurance, only in basing things on your ways can you identify the best changes. I doubt I'd need resuscitate that much and maybe I'd want to get someone up mid fight. I enjoyed having resuscitate on a SR scrapper, it added some kind of cool factor and even got someone up during an AV fight. You might fancy more interrupts in Aid Self though.

I constantly get a reshuffle, its harder to spot anything missing should anything go missing. Its something I wouldn't want to have to thoroughly check everytime.

Between ranged attacks of the Crab pack and Rifle blasts there shouldn't really be redraw issues I hope.