New Dawn

Ya know I don't know how people have the gall to accuse other people of things when there is so much hypocrisy and childishness in it.

Doesn't anyone take a good long hard look at themselves?

I just think everyone needs to grow up.

No wonder most people don't seem bother with the forums anymore as it's just a cesspit.

Coin,

I don't like PvP in Warburg as I find it thug minded.

There I am on a hero and with no backstory (reason) another hero can attack me.

I find the other zones thug minded purely because there is villains in it so that's excusable.

Often in PvP zones there isn't bragging on the whole but there have been some Bruce Lee wannabe's. You can tell from how they look.

I not sure if the context (if thats the right word) of that post was taken correctly.

People don't enter PvP for the same thing and wish to be seen as human beings simply going about their business.

Meanwhile someone quite rightly decides that by entering the zone they have said yes to pvp.

But then being defeated several times with a team orientated SO build by some purple IO'd person gets boring for the person who keeps losing and so they leave the zone and possibly never come back and so the zones are empty.

Not everyone shares the same idea of fun and no one should be bored plaything at the expense of someother with 30 months more Vets and so on.

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Oh, and "real men" don't brag about how good they are, they just know it in themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]Well Said Coin.

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Someone should read my Sig?

Edit: Actually I'd hardly call it boasting.

Boasting is what I get in PvP zones.

Sometimes I am sure from enough people telling me "something" which has been a mistake and sometimes I am sure from testing over a year ago, which can also be a mistake and so what I actually did was test this before I replied.

This is what I did, if you cared to repeat;

Glue Arrowed Nems, kill target, leave rest alive, pull more Nems to glue arrow area and watch them get slowed, wait for Glue effect to disappear and see for how much longer they are slowed for (which is what the slows enhancements do).

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The slow on glue persists and spreads as long as the anchor lives (iirc - it's an odd way to have a power work i agree)

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The glue has no anchor, you only need a target but it is anchored to an area and will stay there, anyone effected by it should be effected by the slow for the duration you slot it for.

When I say herding Cognito that also means tending. I use the dictionary term. Basically no debuffer wants to get too much aggro from laying down their debuffs and no team mate should want that neither. A held or defeated defender is no longer there making the whole team look good. AVs don't have enormous regen anymore making Rads more preference to add pace as the need for -regen is just to lower fight duration by adding pseudo dps.

A Tanker once in Granite against +4 enemies stood at a corner and taunted 5 mobs at range and figured it was a good time for me to use a debuff that hits the other 11 mobs as well.

Nice Guide.


..Don't these things get moved anymore.

Whose the Moderator again?

..Nope can't remember his name.

No but you can edit it to match the figures in your build. I think a true idea of what your attack chain should look like is something you can gain and I think that you can better it.

I think the game should come up with a rating based on things like how many people failed or died on it on average and number spawns and AVs.

I work backwards on quick builds. Click all the priorities from tier 9 in my way to picking my first power so to lay it down faster.

I just looked at it now and looked at the attack chain and its not tight enough for me. If you lay the attacks down as they will roll, like you could with Sherksilvers there could be gaps.

Plasma Shield not at 16...

*Sparks fly out of head and I run around twisting and turning until I finally hit a wall and claps out*

No it doesn't look sensible. Whats the point in having the other toggles if you can't keep them on?

I think perhaps the durability of a Fire scrapper is under estimated some with tough so damn early. Blazing Aura has no taunt in it neither so the world won't exactly want you dead.

Did you really mean to go swift, hurdle, health? I would of preferred hurdle, health, stamina or swift, hurdle, stamina. There are 2 tohit slots in vengeance should you go for stamina that you shouldn't need really. For PvE only, with 45% circa being fine enough, in a build like that, elude is a power I might go without in favour of taunting Heroes with confront as and when necessary to keep a team mate alive just long enough until an alternative recovery is made. I find the build commendable btw.

Elude looks like a travel power.

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Its no secret that the game is piece of cake at higher levels at this moment,despite the efforts made by some who aint done any other serious organised endgame to present it as rocketscience and the equivelant of NASA launching rockets to Mars, and frankly saying that one should gimp himself instead of the devs providing an added challenge is at least ridicilous considering its part of the QoL features requested.

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It's not rocket science, never was, the problem is people bring all they know from other games to this one, it causes tunnel vision, they're fixated on resistance, heals, defense and damage most the time when there is so much else to play with.

What I find dumb is people with the attitude of "If I can't do it, no one can, log into forums and wah wah to the Devs how things need to be fixed because of it". They'd never get a job creating a game. I can see why the developers are doing their job and the players begging for I win buttons aren't. If all games were the same why aren't we all playing the most populated one, leave other games at the door.

The Devs datamine and the fact that most people are bite sized players matters more, logging in with some concept toon hoping to meet friends and be of some value. They couldn't give a toss about me having a couple of hundred levels over 2000 levels in total as I am in some small percentage, scratching my head wondering what I haven't done yet and I don't mind at all.

I see people quit on the simplest of things or turn around and think changing to another character with such and such was the only answer. Tanks doing an STF run and being followed by 3 controllers and 4 defenders..I mean [censored] was the tank for? Why not use a scrapper? A scrapper would be better surely? I love the no AT thing and love to find ways of no particular powerset needed as well. The time Rads were wanted defeating GMs and AVs were dark times to me. There was I a scrapper tanking Diabolique for 45 mins and it just got boring.

Some people wouldn't dare try some content without a healer and those people exist all the way from the lowest level to those that call themselves experienced. An Invuln needs tough apparently, a firetank needs tough apparently, you have to have a granite apparently. I have you know there are circumstances where its better for someones granite to sit down and let a scrapper with confront who knows what they're doing, do the tanking.

I'd be willing to show Praf stuff, on one proviso, I don't mind him saying what I basically did but I do mind him saying how I basically did it. People want more challenges left in this game like yaself TG and so its only fair that we leave them there because once you know the magic trick, the magic is gone.

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Game shows its lack of higher challenge at the moment at high levels for experienced players.

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Experienced players..

They could always nerfbat themselves, form gimped teams and then prove to themselves that despite the nerfbatting there are ways to get thru the hardest parts of the game. If you overpower yourselves when the game is made to be done with teams half full of messed up concept builds your not going to be challenged.

It could be time to move on

When I came to this game the only Tanks I knew was those on the battlefield.

They can take a beating where as the infantry can't.

From Wiki, In gaming jargon, a tank is a player or unit designated to protect weaker players or units in combat by drawing enemy attacks and absorbing damage.

So as far as thats concerned its fine.

Yes that came from Aett Thorn after discussing it with Castle. I preferred to give you a quote from Castle as we don't click.

Gauntlet isn't necessarily a more effective taunt. I've described gauntlet as poo many a time and thats with one tank with a tohit pass 45%, rage obviously, so yes thats good damage. Your subject to accuracy and endurance levels so thats where people may start worrying about having a kin or something in particular because after a long fight someone can be out of steam. Neuron for example does -endurance, -recovery.

In teams it can pay to kite mobs depending on mob level and the damage type your better off receiving and the team make up. It can pay off. Knowing the enemy, your limitations and what the team can do really pays off. Where a Firetank can't possibly survive the level of lethal damage for example without support. He can keep the damage mainly made up of energy where they fire their ranged attacks rather than get their blades out and severely dice him. The ranged attacks all in all can in different ways effectively be lower DPS. Everyone lives, everyones a winner. Sometimes just because there is no healer to help it doesn't make things impossible.

Castle said something like this:

Taunt effects aren't a 100% over-ride of threat level. They are, instead, a MASSIVE multiplier to your existing threat level. Threat level itself is determined based on an archetype modifier plus other factors - for example, a damaging attack generates a total threat using a formula kind of like:
DMG x Taunt_Duration_Remaining x Archetype_Threat_Mod x AI_Preferences x Range_Mod
(AI Preferences can be things like "I prefer to attack Scrappers", "I *really* hate Kheldians!", "Kill the healer!", "Attack the last person to attack me!" or any of about 40 or 50 other variables).

Archetype Threat Mod Ratings:
• Tanker, Brute = 4
• Scrapper = 3
• Kheldian = 2 (3 in Dwarf form)
• Stalker, Mastermind = 2
• Everyone else = 1

Taunt Archetype Multipliers (which affect Taunt Duration):
• Tanker, Brute, Stalker = 1
• Kheldians = 0.85
• Scrapper = 0.75
• Everyone else = 0.5

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I bolded the range bit as in the case you quoted, it proved true. He had damage and range on his side and I had everything else on my side. To counter what other people can do my taunt duration has been maxxed before to have a long taunt duration remaining.

The 15 seconds of no end recovery idea wasn't liked because it'll happen every 120 secs and so can add up over time. The rage crash can count against survivability and so worrying about that every 120 secs was also disliked. The poo damage for 10 secs might be worth extending to 15 secs and then the -def component dropped. It can effect survivability to self but not in the way most people I'd imagine would worry about.

You can use taunt alone to keep aggro with most AVs. The AI my give them instructions at certain HP for example but Blasters would have to have an insane amount of damage procs.

Taunt duration can run out before recharge especially under -recharge circumstances or it could be the AV has a high resistance, phased or placated you but thats why some of us actually slot it.

By slotting it I like to think that I am working towards the "no ftw powersets" needed let alone the "no AT needed" type thing.

The more range you have to out range attacks and cut down the amount of attacks you can be hit by the more taunt duration you could do with.

On the US forums 2 years ago maybe a question was put out for the Tankers with Taunt which was "Whats your taunt slotted with?" and quite a number of Vets turned up and said what they had and a few said 2,2,2 and some said they may change is to 1,1,1 with IOs. The 3 types of slots they were looking at was taunt, recharge and range. Long before then mine was 2,2,2. A number of the original set of Tanks that frequented this Tanker section also had chosen to slot taunt. We, this and that side of the Atlantic had our reasons.

The problem with using Range is that aggro is more easily stolen and prior to Castle stating how taunt works there had been instances where a scrapper with confront which is of lower duration had stole aggro from me causing large AoEs to land on the whole team instead of piddly single targets landing on me. The scrappers built up damage, used confront and from being next to the AV took aggro. Had they not used confront the team would be alive today (I joke) but threat mechanics is something not just for a Tanker to get into but the whole team. At times it may pay for the Scrapper to turn all his toggles off to save end from what a tank does let alone just their (the scrappers) taunt aura so threat mechanics is a good thing to learn. Why fight with them on when you don't need them? more recovery ftw.

If you like maths Praf and being a teacher I respect there is some maturity for me to trust you then together we can work on trying to find holes where we can use threat mechanics for survivability. I'd rather play test things privately with you and a couple of others like Saxtus till a formula is gained. Not shy am I.

Edit: Actually there is different kinds of holes or windows as I like to call them.

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Ok so you are making you case based on Set IO's here.Set IOed stormies dont have endurance issues if properly build of course.At least our SG ones and all set IOed stormies i teamed recently they had no problem spamming powers and keeping toggles up.
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Dam per end to group comes in the AoEs

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Maybe,but only when the damage is significant to make a difference.You are talking 50 damage here.

And since we are talking PvP here slotting damage in Freezing Rain for PvP is definitely a no no.

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I knew that its a no no with PvP before people started telling me I am wrong. My suggestion was to concentrate on leveling first and then going back to PvP seeing as leveling was at a snails pace and was based on that.

Agreed 50 damage differs, I know that once I have tried casting Rain of Arrows at the start of the fight the arrows land on dead bodies. However not all teams are the same and I can spare the slots. The slotting of damage was a "suggestion" to speed up leveling speed.

We turned to IOs later, I believe as Okton turned to IOs. It can get based on SOs np.

Mids herobuilder the way its set doesn't reveal all the numbers and it so I use in game figures and that.

Spectral Wounds; Devastation 5 slots, all but the chance of hold.

You can read what level of damage it does. Without Recipes being on it does 86.7 damage for 4.37 end and if hastened it'll recharge in 2,27 secs. Mids will tell you its dps which is 25,9 dps and its end per sec is 1.41 eps.

If you look at the bars for damage per end it shows it does 18.32 damage per endurance point.

If we divided the 25,9 dps by its 1.41 eps then we get 18.37 rounded figure which is close enough to the 18.32 damage per endurance point.

This slotting means its had its damage increased and its endurance cost reduced already for decent dam per end

Accuracy 66.25%
Damage 97.89%
Endurance 45.05%
Recharge 66.25%

Whether or not its the best slotting it is a set offering a dam buff but we have the recipes off.



The way Mids comes in, Freezing Rain doesn't show up in the Power Stats Dam/End nor can you scale it to 16 targets.

I slotted it as this:

Level 16: Freezing Rain -- Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(17), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg:50(17), Det'tn-Dmg/EndRdx:50(25), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg:50(37), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx

Damage 95.9%
DefDebuff 47.7% = - 44.1% def debuff.
Endurance 73.78%
Recharge 95.11%

Mids will tell you it does 53.2 damage, if its also hastened, it will be 53,2 damage every 20,5 seconds and it will tell you it costs 10,5 endurance. It will tell you its eps is 0,46 end per sec but it won't tell you its dam per sec and it doesn't have a slider there for you to scale it from 1 - 16 targets to give you a total damage per endurance. Which is what I do.

I take the 53.2 damage and can clearly see that its worse on a single target than spectral wounds as its 53.2 dam/10.5 endurance = 5 dam per endurance point, but if it hits 4 it's become 20 damage per endurance point rivaling spectral wounds, by the time it hits 16 foes its 4 times better.

In terms of damage per cast time Spectral wounds is 86.7/1.07 = 81 dpa or dpc
Freezing Rain is 2.03 secs long so to match it we will need to know the minimum amount to hit 81 * 2.03 = 164
Being 53.2 per target then 164 is slightly over a minimum amount of 3 targets.

So in terms of dpa almost 3 targets, in terms of dpe you need 4 targets in terms of potential we go:

53.2 * 16 = 851.2 every 22.03 secs which works out as 38.63 dam per sec or as I like to think it 2318.3 dam per min for 6 secs of my time.

Spammed Spectral Wounds is 1554 dam per min for 60/(1.07/2.27) = 18 secs of my time

Also the eps of spectral wounds is 1.41 compared to freezing rains 0,46.

I'd much rather slap on Freezing Rain then do the STs on top.

Edit:Pets.FreezingRain_Controller

Edit: I have been doing some testing and starting to believe there is something awkward with it.

With IOs I'd settle for the equivalent 2 rechg 2 end drain in both powersink and short circuit. End drain as much as possible as soon as possible I do think as the less endurance they have then generally the lower the tier of attack they can use if that.

That reply has my name on it but I assume it isn't for me as I don't PvP so this is a reply to not wish to look rude.

@Tainted I heard your post had numbers, its a shame most peoples don't as I am happier to see them.

Edit: Before I have to go out today; being that my planned final build was a rushed one, all this looking at it has helped me improve it further to do more dam per group per end over time just now, as I improved the slotting some more.

How are they not debuffed well due to rubbish slotting?

As well as doing that amount of damage per target I am debuffing them 44% in defence which is only 5% less than Oktons at 49%.

The Dam per end is gained from how I slot. My single targets need to hit and I lowered the end cost in all powers to widen the gap between attack chain end drain and toggle end drain and end recovery.

To take on groups and lets say they are fast moving, as some Tanks just don't stop herding and teams just don't stop mowing, I got the dam per end down to worth use on 4 as my spectral wounds is on one.

The case in points is 83 dam on single target is 83 dam to group.

Freezing Rain is as much as 811 dam to group but roughly 50 dam to each single target.

Your greatest Dam per end to group comes in the AoEs.

Now I know in PvP you'd be lucky to see 16 together but mine is alright on 4 people, and alright for every other component freezing rain offers anyway.

I much rather do 800 dam to group and not have to have my first 5 spectral wounds doing what Freezing Rain could of done if I hadnt slotted it with damage enhancements especially as of they ain't dead soon with that the damage disappears.