New Dawn

Yes or a pocket kin.

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WP is said to be better than Invuln.

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Only for suvivability, it's much worse at holding aggro.

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Only if you dont use taunt. Between reasonable use of taunt and gauntlet there is hardly a noticeable difference.

Which does make me wonder, because if there should be one tankimng primary that is superior, it should be invulnerability without question, simply because of its iconic connotation.

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Willpowers taunt aura is alright around decent players. Other auras being better than each other in different ways just means that they offer different flexibilities. I don't know about anyone else but I think differently playing alongside different types of tanks and even more differently depending on what enemies they are facing. If you want aggro kept by the tanker in your team you must allow for it. That means deciding when to attack basically. Just because a Dark Tank runs in, it doesn't mean its taunted anything, the whole death shroud can miss or at least need to tick. The game is full of people who swear they've stolen a taunted foe of a tanker but as we know what's taunted is taunted. With WP I am more likely to wait for a tight group and/or see enough effective gauntleting going on. It does have an edge on keeping gauntlet rate up when you think about it. I have been "sort of" tanking +4s with my WP scrapper lately, I say sort of as, with a bubbler and without my tank mindset there has been room to practice recoveries and truthfully I don't feel that WP is too bad to handle however getting to mobs earlier and spending sine initial gauntlet time before the team starts works better.

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"That said there is plenty of -def in game that can actually have an Invuln at 0 def at times making them a resist set with a long recharge heal."(bored to quote) that means that the reason to take the set is invincibility(the core of inv defense). It SHOULDN'T BE. ALL 9 powers(or, as in mos sets, 5 of the powers) must define the set, not 1. and no, temp inv is something 70% of defense sets have, its not "defining".

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Well done, you've completely lost me. What are you getting at? It's certainly a killer in my book for a basic Invuln depending on what enemies your facing. One thing leading to another or the fact that its not a good damage type to be getting hit by can make a difference. The difference shows up more when comparing how one tank can handle a certain group compared to another. When Invulns are played to its strengths against most enemies, especially S/L, -def isn't an issue but if you don't get to play to your strengths against certain enemies then it is an issue.

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That said there is plenty of -def in game that can actually have an Invuln at 0 def at times making them a resist set with a long recharge heal.


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Quite true. I'm reasonably confident that one of the things they are getting is -def resistance.

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It's not hard to turn a basic Invuln into a resistance set with a long recharge heal atm. With weave and combat jumps additional defense you have additional protection from being hit in the first place between the times of being seen and collecting mobs in an 8ft rad. This means that those with fight pool are going to go "Duh? I never had trouble with -def!".

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for an exact no net benefit to what shouldn't have a net benefit.

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There will be a net benefit if you have fewer than 10 mobs in the aoe, which is most of the time in my experience. Also against Psi and untyped damage. Also useful if you aint running Invince (more likely for a scrapper).

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A scrapper without invincible is a bottler . I doubt the benefit of the change will have a noticeable effect to the basic Invuln, but if you've built a certain way or regular get buffed in defense to certain levels then yep.

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WP is said to be better than Invuln.

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Are you teaching me how to suck an egg? When everyone else probably understands I have been talking about survivability you go and talk about taunt control.

Brave nerf? No, well! no..Post 40 is where Invulns are or should I say really begin to be challenged. That said there is plenty of -def in game that can actually have an Invuln at 0 def at times making them a resist set with a long recharge heal.

I like to look at the basic Invuln and compare it to a basic Ice rather than think of one with med pool or DA etc.

Castle could limit Invincible to 8 to make up for the -def being taken out of unyielding and give the figures a slight tweak, for an exact no net benefit to what shouldn't have a net benefit.

Passives with additional effects could counter the times when you want to play to your strengths as an Invuln but don't get to as players do generally prevent you from doing so. As a forumite said on US forums during those times, res to secondary effects on the passives would be beneficial. Both Invuln and Fire could do with sec effect resists to the passives without a doubt.

My 2 easiest tanks are Stone and Ice, coming from SR, Ice is in the bag easy. WP is said to be better than Invuln. DA probably needs CoF at Mag 3.

That jet-pack has to be bought every 30 days? If so how much? It better break the sound barrier anyways.

In every team there is always someone negating someone else. Players tend to understand from little to not everything about their own sets, let alone other peoples. I am not totally innocent but noticing things like that in every team makes me not as bad I guess. The other thing is some people have powers they could use on people, but they don't, the power just sits in the tray, I have no idea what "right time" they're waiting for as "the right times" was pretty self evidently always there. Even as my scrapper I still see buffs on other people in the team and its amazing how many people would forget to buff.

Taunt doing -range.

I think its daft. Better to put more -range into something else that defenders, controllers, corrupters and MMs do.

I find the -range interesting in hurricane but more powers can have it especially the -perception ones.

Taunt is already more than a "hey hit me" power, its basically a jedi mind trick. Greatest control in game imo.

Nah it's way too conceptually disagreeable. A shout/punch debuffing how far a stone can be thrown or how wide an area a bomb can blast...just daft.

The option to take on 2 sidekicks maybe nice.

So I am all alone, and decide to do that TF that has Cyrus and 2 other lambs to a CoT slaughter in it, Smoke and Mirrors!
So at the end I wander in start on the Zoria, take out the room, save the hostages and kill the elite boss (was unyielding) and Cyrus is laying down sleeping like a baby with a full health bar. Nothing had the time nor opportunity to finish him off...so why at the end of it all does he have to be dead? How the hell is he dead?

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All this phlosophy is going over my head. Can we get back to maths, I can cope with that!

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Praf you wordsmith you pls by all means write numbers. I do sometimes but it looks geeky and I have to delete it all.

I am gutted really, too gutted to know what to say, except best of luck to all that is affected. I hope good fortune comes everyone's way really and I will say that even small ones are a blessing to take hold of. Redundancies happen to the very best of people, and I hope it brings out the best in people, I hope you all find a new role somewhere soon.

I am open to thinking that despite the way things may/could of looked, that it was really, really, not intended. Anyway I have to hold my hand up to looking that way at some point (just some?)..wait whose innocent of this?

No ones validity should ever be in question; you don't need numbers to be a good tanker; everyone likes to tank differently and people like different tankers (find different tankers good, the best) for different reasons. On these forums I guess we will have different principles, quirks or whatever. I could also play stupidly solid builds but certain things test me/interest me and as a result, I will intentionally rely on team work much more.

When/if they market this game more, new people will bring back old questions and more and more repeated history will surely ensue. Rather than unintentionally put them off or make them feel like they're put in stocks and fruited by an angry mob..I reckon we can try to out do each other on constructive replies and no I didn't go to hell and get given a second chance .

Try verifying files and relogging.

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well it was call reinforcements or hasten and hasten is much more valuable imo,and i wanted to focus on defense so it had to be a tight build.
well i only made it for a m8 respecing, il remove it when hes done anyway.

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I often see builds put up for a mate to see and for anyone else to perhaps pinch a slotting idea, but you're bound to get comments from people who take the build on display to mean that you're looking for suggestions.

I was putting a narrow perspective on some people. I say narrow because there can be many ways to perceive someone by what they say and how they say it in ones mind. I think it's better to try and take what people say in a less literal way than one normally would and show some individual respect. Everyone is different and that's good. We all have our starting points and we all have our ways of wording things that can be easily misunderstood at times. Looking at peoples posts, their grammar, a wall of text, several quotes and many other things can make someone perceive what isn't ideally what's meant to be there.

Bottom line is the game can be simply about fun and the forums could be much friendlier from looking at how we word things before simply logging off and by trying to find alternative views on other peoples posts to gain the nicest one. On some peoples posts I have had to put fullstops and commas in to even try to begin to grasp it. XD

My money is on Golden Girl cleaning up with something like 10000 hours.

I had it in my head that the world and his mum had already visited Paragon wiki and Red Tomax sites to look at other peoples findings.

But let me get this right with my child like mind..by reading information discovered by other people, it would make me a smarter player than someone whose fairly new to using the internet for city of heroes. I can safely assume that other people are underperforming without such knowledge and can use the word n00b on people.

If you think that, this is directed at anyone in particular it's not true. It's just a trend that I can generally see from looking from one direction out of two or three, with perhaps none of them being right with people. I may look like someone who does that myself or did, but it concerns me now.

There is still things to discover ingame for anyone who has the time I reckon, especially as there is definitely a formula without any real numbers filled in. Someone maybe the Le Verrier to some Couch Adams, and that person maybe the Couch Adams to some Galileo but at least one can call themselves a smart player for sure.

Apologies for the threadomancy once again but I wasn't about to reply to Lionsbane.

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So without Taunt, the casual Tanker can't operate in a manner as befits the AT. Whereas, an experienced oplayer who understands literally HOW the set or rather aggro management works, can do just as well, if not better, without it.

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Never in a zillion years quite frankly.

Atm. With or without it everyone is subject to other people in the team but I think that without it, you really are down to fewer options on how to keep other players from being hit.

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So as I stated. Yes a Tanker needs it. No a Tanker doesnt.

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A Tanker doesn't need taunt to be a Tanker, or an acceptable one to many people but what it does it add flexibility to reach out better to those that'll rather you with than without. There are many ways of going about things in this game and Taunt allows for some of it. I find all Tankers balanced around certain things especially taunt.

I like to use it to mitigate damage to team "when needed" by limiting what attacks can be used. The enemy is compelled to hit me and can only hit me with attacks that can actually hit me. This may be attacks that can only effect me when it does hit. The limiting of attacks an AV can use can be the difference of getting something done and not getting something done. I know what some people are like; they'll cherry pick power sets to team with or cherry pick power sets for themselves to play as its simpler. You don't really have to have to do that unless and I admit to this, its pace you want.

I find defenders stack to my build quite nicely, but some of them don't take certain powers. This can create limitations. Not taking taunt creates limitations but we are free to chose our own limits. If I have a staminaless, tough-less tank, I chose mine and so what aye

I think he does.

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Some things are matters of opinion. Some things are matters of fact.

Some people, when someone tells them something they didn't aready know, say thank you. Others say, I don't believe you or anyone else on these forums.

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I have been asleep since last message. I think you were being a tad too sensitive.

I'll just check whether you were called a liar whilst you're reading this.

People have different opinions and people air them out.

Whether or not something is trivial is subjective, in my case, with my build and so different in preferred methods, its pretty trivial. I am more interested in the changes to the passives tbh.

Edit: No wait, let's just look to see a forum where people are not on each others cases.

Allow me to not apologize for anything that maybe considered demeaning because in listing the things you wrote:

"Have you actually played this game?"

.."and it is the smart players who understand maths ans statistics that the game has to be balanced around."

"If you care to ignore numbers and statistics, and think 5% def is trivial, then it is not suprising that your characters underperform."

"Yo might understand the game better if you learned to read"

"You definition of average seams to corespond to what most of us would call a n00b"

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In your case I am not sure if I care that you're dyslexic. You're a teacher and all this makes me say "Crumbs! What are you like to your students?".

Well done Raven for this spot:

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PRAF, while I agree with most of what you have written regarding the mechanics behind defense and definitely agree that the 5% base defense debuff going (if that happens) is welcome I am a bit confused here.

As far as I know the psi defense buff given by the Elusive Mind accolade power is 25%. The 5% base defense debuff in Unyielding is far from actually nullifying it. The psi resistance granted by Elusive Mind is 7.5%. Perhaps that is what you referred to?

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I would of said something but I wasn't about at all.

Quoting Praf:

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The Watchman accolade is easy to get and gives a significant buff to psi defence, one which is currently almost nullified by Unyealding.

You definition of average seams to corespond to what most of us would call a n00b.

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Well done. I think you may have just described many bite sized players/people with concepts as n00bs.

/Applauds..not.

You also spelled Unyielding, correspond and seems wrong.

I don't feel that Alphane has been interpreted in the best possible way either.

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Change of subject cos I just on to have my say:

I like Castles line of thinking.

As far as I can see people build dream teams and then moan how something isn't challenging anymore.