New Dawn
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Posts
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Joined
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I currently run a Firetank without Stamina and without Fight Pool. No defense
(Rebel)
Edit: And no she is not a lowbie
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Throughout your builds you are pretty adamant on having really high fire and cold def. There is hardly any that causes that much defs worth of issues to an Invuln imo. Your fireball is like 18secs of rechg which is too long to me, I'd be like "fun wait"
. If you were farming Behemoths you would run into the group and have an extra 11% of defense to them putting you way over soft cap. Why not just hit softcap and have a 12 sec rechg on Fireball? I still think that you could probably afford to lose 6% fire/def and be more destructive.
Had you worked out the eps of your attack chain? Adding accolades you have an end rec to end drain window of 2.34eps so you end gain that. If your attack chain eps is a lot higher then not to fear, work out roughly your end gain between mobs and add that. Farming tanks are probably better off not having to rest. I don't farm but I would ordinarily aim for a window that is roughly at least 2.5 eps. -
Quote:Immediately to this comment I have only one thought. At a moment such as this, its not what I wish I could do that matters, its what I should of done.Originally Posted by Xanatos_NA
There's nothing worse than being at the cap, and then a team-mate aggro's another group. There is literally NOTHING you can do to take aggro off-of them.
I don't put myself in perception range or try to aggro more than 17 in any given team and I don't like to fight groups too close to other enemy groups unless I know that I can get away with congalining or something, so as some are defeated, more come, and as they do I am making sure they find me. To aggro cap and have others fight close enough to other groups is asking for problems. As a tank I have to think. Do I want everyone fighting in that small room? Do I need to offer blasters range here? What does 50ft of perception range look like? How have others been playing and how best do I compensate for their suicidal tendencies?
Some people in the team may create or cause problems and that generally is something that they and other people might learn from on their own or one can just say.
I get jealous of other peoples health bars moving but I don't think the game should be made any easier. I hate it when things go wrong but I love the fact that things can. -
Quote:Whilst no AT is needed, really a controller should make a better controller than someones defender or blaster and they do by a mile. The powersets themselves makes sure that there is hardly one AT stepping on anothers toes.Originally Posted by LostHalo
Nothing in this game needs a specific AT. Having done sub-30 minute ITFs that happened to have three Tanks (And hey, two of those Tanks? They changed off their Brutes), I just don't see any AT disappearing in favor of another.
Perhaps you'll run into that on the "gotta have Stone, gotta have 'heal0rz', gotta have radiation" teams but you know, they get ridiculed for being blind fools for a reason... Seeking specific builds/ATs because they are somehow guaranteed to be "superior" is the hallmark of a bad leader, a bad team, and a bad player.
Brutes and Tankers share the same powersets and caps apart from the damage cap. So Brutes can be made to effectively step on a Tankers and then do loads more damage.
I am all for any team mix but many players are not so pick n mix inclined. In time certain things become law. The one way that everything is done, has to be done and there can't possibly be another way, a bit like getting a stone and an emp for the STF etc. Tanks could be less favourable.
I play my Brutes like a Tanker anyway. -
Quote:Throw in the right support and watch them go. Its about the caps really. Overall the Brutes have higher caps. I said overall meaning same def cap, same res cap, same hp cap and oodles more dam cap.Originally Posted by Atheism
I'm curious to if brutes can do things tanks can without IOs. My guess is, probably not.
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Quote:I don't put anything passed anyone really and maybe I am being too optimistic with the player base (rather complimentary) but I do know that people do have their fotms and like the path to less resistance. Eventually such paths get found. Some people do like to choose people based on powersets in order to mow the grass at speed then word gets around and suddenly everyone is of specific powersets.Originally Posted by Sarrate
Brutes are definitely more open to power-gaming than a Tank is, but sincerely doubt most unlock their true potential.
Remember when a typical AVs regen was
? It was either find a Rad or fight the damn thing for 30 mins. Suddenly the world and his mum had a Rad and all I saw in globals was Rad this and Rad that. *throws up*
Such things made me cringe hence now I don't like to care what people bring because I can make use of anyone.
"What shall I bring?" gets a "Whatever you like!!" and I prefer to see that.
/Device blaster "We have no defender"
Me "You are it" -
Rechg time starts after the cast time.
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Quote:There is a price to pay for that though. The eps of the build in action might have gone up by a lot. Work out the eps of the attack chains and see if your end rec to end drain window is high enough. With GFS out and hasten in, you get a 15 end drop every so often but providing your not using your aoes on less than 4 your attack chain should be doing greater dpeps. In a farm, any unfinished few can be taken to the next group where they can be finished with I would imagine.Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
However, if I drop Hasten, and pickup GFS, keeping Build Up means that not only can my GFS hit more often, it will do 400 instead of 285 - a 115 extra points of damage.
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Hard combo to fail with imo.
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Quote:It is more possible for some people than others. I could do it but can you do it? Its not going to be just a case of build right for a low attack chain eps; then use EA often at the start of a fight whilst there is 3 to 6 foes in melee; or whilst in melee with AVs you can have minions to leech off and left alive as everyone makes sure they ST the AV or for the fact you may have a best mate who is a kin. If I couldn't do it I wouldn't expect everyone else not to do it.Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
I've been complaining on JFA and hear that if I properly slot EA, I don't need Stamina anymore. Is there truth to this statement? I'm gonna do it on a second build just to be sure, for exemping and all that, but if I can respec out of Stamina and pick up more attacks (hello Whirling Axe!) and Icicles, will Energy Absorbtion, slotted for recharge, suffice for my End needs?
There is some truth to the statement but it could come down to more than one thing..
I soloed Heracles EB with a Staminaless Ice/Ice. Took ages. -
Quote:WP and SS go tremendously well together.Originally Posted by Twylight_Spectre
I am looking to creating a tank.
I have heard that stone is best defense and i am not disagreeing but i have stone brute.
so i am wondering what would be a good build without involving stone.
i was thinking perhaps invul/SS or WP/SS?
any suggestions would be helpful.
thanks -
Quote:Tosh.Originally Posted by Obitus
The presentation of rational arguments to weigh the various build options available does not constitute some sort of thuggish attempt to enforce a universal status quo.
Nor should it be the purpose of every build thread to force an unequivocal resolution to all disagreements; at some point, sane people have to let the reader decide -- not because they necessarily agree to disagree, not because all opinions, no matter how thin their substantiation, are equally valid, but rather, because if a person is rational, then s/he must, by definition, realize that the subject of any thread in a game forum isn't a worthwhile cause over which to fight unto death.
There are reasonable points of contention, and it is certainly possible that any two of a given collection of alternative power picks and slotting options -- particularly in the age of IO sets -- are equally valuable to different playstyles.
But it is not constructive to dwell on the blindingly obvious, to spend endless hours contemplating the meaning of the word "is," or to summon outrage because an entirely unsubstantiated and/or obviously absurd opinion of yours isn't being given the equal respect it deserves. There's respect in debate, and then there's the realization that the person most loudly demanding respect is actually the one who bestows it least. -
Quote:Well it does depend on what you need to get done. Devices has in a way things in common with Traps and some things in common with Trick Archery. /Devices can fill in for defenders very well "at times".Originally Posted by Zanthar
IThe only BAD thing about /Devices is its not a very group friendly set, its not to say its not useful but just not as useful in groups like some of the others.
I would expect anyone who can work out the finer points of trick archery or traps to look at /Devices and see that even is some of the most seemingly most dire circumstances it has tools that can be utilized as part of a dynamic to actually turn the dire circumstance into a total piece of cake.
It won't be as good trick archery or traps obviously but just like a duct tape it can help make do. TA is as good as any defender to me. Many people have yet to learn of just what they can do with one.
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I know I posted a build earlier in the thread but come back to say that its changed now and looking more like the final build that I will have for keeps after reading Darkity's Dark/Dark Guide here :
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=127276
I swapped out Oppressive Gloom for Black Hole as well as made some minor slotting changes elsewhere for things like better rechg in Howling Twilight and Twilight Grasp. A stealth IO in my teleport. Should someone die then between Vengeance and Shadowfall there is 45% def. Oppressive Gloom may not be the cool power I was looking for whereas Black hole can phase towers in the STF. -
If everyone adhered to this guide, it could have most people playing by the same rules, with the same builds, left with the same issues and like many people, never thinking outside of the box that is, what some people are stuck in. For the completely stupid it would of most likely of helped them to get on in game better than they would of and so it is from my own perspective..a good guide!
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Brutes can be buffed to and played to exceed the expectations of a Tanker. That's how I see things.
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I was alright with Tanks till this morning. How attractive will they be for teams when Brutes can cross over in Going Rogue? They'll practically be interchangeable given the right players except Brutes do more damage.
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Words can have more than one meaning. If someone reads a post in the wrong tone then they may choose the wrong meaning. What is socially acceptable in one area may not be in another. I am not changing for anyone who develops an opinion.
If I come across anyone bringing up anything of a sexual nature on any of my accounts. I have 4 (Keep your friends close and your enemies closer I say). I will petition them immediately. This is just as much a game played by kids as it is adults. Not everyone in every group is a saint. My GLB friends are straight acting and awesome, the words don't matter as they're not pansies. -
Quote:You can do it with any tank.Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
The issue with making an MoSTF tanker is making sure you either have good support or a lot of tier 3 inspirations. No amount of regen will prevent Ghost Widow's hax hold, or Lord Recluse spamming Chaingun (2 hits will kill anything), or a moron teammate getting too close when an AV uses a nuke and getting flattened.
PS: I've tanked MoSTF on my invuln several times, so you don't "need" a Stone to do it =P -
I liked this guide a lot and used it for my Cold Corrupter who is on Vigilance server, the only change I would suggest just so that some occasions are covered is the bit where it says "never buff". I would of said "only at times buff" as not everyone builds the same way or are equally as thoughtful about their play but rather than go into things leave something for people to think for themselves on. I think Frost Work has more value CoV side so I made sure I took it.
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Quote:Trick Archery is under rated.Originally Posted by DropZone
Normal is overrated. This guide however, can't be rated high enough. So awesome.
Recently on an all Scrapper STF, of which I tanked every AV and showed the team how not to get defeated whilst doing it; I also showed them how to tank the AVs for a TA as any type of scrapper, let alone any type of tank. They were "Your trick archer is more than welcome on my team!" and that is the way it could be and the way I would personally prefer it to be as concept matters a ton to me.
Generally most people could be less fussy about what type of defender is in the team if they build to be flexible enough to work with all types and by TAs picking up as many different types of secondary effects from their primaries as they can get their hands on they will be doing the same.
This guide I like, iirc it is far better than the first as it is iirc a lot more broad.
As for PvP, well its better to team PvP, look at the team mates with whom you may always team with and play and build to compliment eachother.
My TA is based on the Cherokee Indian which I studied during Sociology at school. More American Indian costume options would be nice. -
Great guide! I have been leveling a Dark/Dark but had yet to check a guide. This has helped me make some important build changes and made me come to a final decision on my build. Apart from slotting changes I also changed Oppressive Gloom to Black Hole. I am interested in Black Hole phasing a tower on the STF as well as a last resort Panic button.
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Quote:You meant consume XD and to the posts just before it I think that Shield is not so much the one with the lowest in mitigation but the most worse of solo. To be at its strongest it has to be teamed.Originally Posted by Rodion
At what level and with what kind of enhancements?
I have a level 50 Fire/Fire tanker and endurance is not a problem, even when running five or six toggles. I slot IO sets I just don't run out of end unless fighting Carnies. And although Combustion recharges more slowly than Power Sink, it's just about all I need when fighting Carnies.
No doubt about it, Electric Armor's resistance to end drain is very nice. But if your Fire Tank is having endurance problem the good news is that there are plenty of ways to fix it. -
What about an extra Inherent like "Assault"?
It effects only team mates including other tankers but the bonus scales differently to each ATs. Lowest on Scrappers and Brutes.
Forgive me if I am off base with any points and I did not know how else to put it:
Going Rogue will eventually come out and Brutes are ever so close to imposing on the Tankers role, with Scrappers a little bit further behind but both in any case have a greater damage output and can be seen as more attractive for teams. I think that, that is the worry.
With Sarrate I think, wanting Tankers to more attractively stack in teams and do better damage per end like scrappers. One tank would increase the damage output of the other. Therefore greater dam per end.
With Kruunchs post being about how many new players need to complain and tanker players being end hungry perhaps from having to hit targets a lot to defeat, partly from being first in and therefore using more end.
With Tankers being in my opinion a very good dictator of the battlefield.
I think combining all that can mean that Tankers can do with a inherent effect other power like Assault, oh and still gauntlet. -
Well depending on whats outside of the build and the team dynamics its very hard not to make a tanker that couldn't do it, however I do like Tunch's taunt slotting as I like a decently slotted taunt and I like earth epic on AVs. They help even further towards not caring what other powersets are in the team in creating survivability. I am no way a believer in the holy trinity of tank, defender and blaster. If it were me I would keep taunt and the earth epic pretty much as the OP has it. I love secondary effects anyway.