Nethergoat

I don't exploit anything and I don't care who knows how I spend my game time (mostly ignoring MA, farming Dark Astoria, playing around on the market, occasionally running solo door missions).

When MA came out and a certain segment of the playerbase lost their minds because their gameplay changed during online play like the box warned them it would.

How is this relevant to CoH, where 99.9% of all farming takes place in private instances?

RMT'ers are in violation of the EULA and their actions are by definition illegal.

Farmers are not in violation of anything and associating them with RMTers is foolish.

I've never had any dealings with mitos and have no idea what their "correct" behavior is supposed to be.

Which is why the whole "you should know it when you see it" 'definition' of an exploit is hooey.

That said, if the 'real' mitos have no attacks I don't see that their lack of attacks in AE is anything other than "working as intended".

And this whole line of argument goes all the way back to closed beta- people told them what was going to happen. People suggested fixes. They released it anyway.

So, I don't consider using any spawn available in MA to be an "exploit".
They could've fixed it, they chose not to, c'est la vie.

Bahahahah!

+rep for yoo!

No, in other words there is no such thing as an "exploit" as defined by our local Morality Police & Fainting Couch Society.

Yes, going "punitive" was such a grand success for them, wasn't it?
No wonder Bubble Farming resulted in the same spree of bans and rollbacks as Meow Farming....oh wait.

They have the power to do whatever they like.
But if they refuse to define their terms while insisting on punishing paying customers, they lose the moral standing to justify their actions.

And that is a dangerous path for any entertainment concern to travel down, as I think they discovered.

The devs don't seem to agree, as they have left things mostly alone.

Unless you think they're still on the Cryptic payroll and are trying to tank the game so everyone will go play CO?

None of us know the business impact MA has had on the game, aside from some reported comicon eyebrow waggling about numbers being "way up".

It seems that the numbers have been good enough to forgo further knee-jerk reactions to the devs regarding MA "exploits".

Anyone who enjoys the gameplay will stick around and explore.
Think of it as an ongoing 2xp weekend. And note that this last 'real' 2xp weekend did not include the previously de riguer free reactivation.

I see this as a sign of vitality and health, not teh end timez.

The people who's business it is to grow the game and turn a profit disagree, what can I tell ya.

Code has no rights.
Unless you're interacting directly with another human player, you can do whatever you like to any in-game entity with impunity.

If it isn't impossible, people will do it.

If the devs don't want people doing it, then the burden is on them to make it impossible- or at least inefficient.

"Debate" is a comically grandiose term for the commentary of most anti-farm Crusaders.

My point is that until rules are changed by the devs there is no moral component to any in-game playstyle. Farmers have as much right to farm as RPers have to RP.


It isn't a players place to worry or care about "exploits".
That responsibility rests entirely with the people who create the world- they wrote the code that made the systems that we use to interact. If they don't like something, they can change it.

The only possible "exploits" in an MMO game world would come from manipulating the world with outside code (hacking) or, to borrow a term from FPS gaming, 'glitching'- exploiting geometry flaws (getting outside the world, for instance) or code malfunctions (the Hellions who would just lean against the wall no matter what you did).

Otherwise, anything that isn't impossible is perfectly fine.
This is a game I play- figuring out what is and isn't intended isn't my job, that's what the devs are for.
In a closed system like this the assumption is if you can do it, do it. If they didn't want you doing it, you wouldn't be able to.


/edit
also, co-sign Perfect Pain. =)

If the devs don't like it, they can change it.
It's their system, their tools, their NPCs, their game.
Players can only achieve what they are allowed to achieve by the tools they are given.

I feel the same about nearly everything you say.

And yet, I'm sure you are.

You used tools provided by the devs to maximize your rewards.
This is 'making' something in the same sense that using legos to build a car is 'making' something. You can certainly take credit for building the most sleek, elegant car possible with the Legos, but your creation is severely limited by which blocks you've been given. You can't put a flamethrower on the hood unless you were given a flamethrower.

This treads closer to semantics than I usually feel comfortable venturing, but I feel the point is important enough to warrant a brush with the pedantic.

So, yes there are maps that are better for farming, and yes you can arrange for them to be densely populated. But neither of those circumstances originate with the farmer, they originate with the developers. If they developers don't like it, they can change the system.
Absent changes, some players will continue to seek rewards in the most efficient way possible.

I'd say optimizing a character for farming is fundamentally similar to optimizing a map for farming.

Will you be including optimized builds in a revised list of "extremist farmer behavior"?


I didn't miss it.
But saying you're a farmer doesn't automatically validate your logic.


Again, under the heading "extremist farmer behavior" you list farmers taking exception to the moral crusading of the Fainting Couch Social Club.

Defending yourself & your culture from assault is hardly extremist behavior.

Yes, everything is MA's fault.
There have never been new & uninformed players ever before in the history of the game.

We don't "make" any maps.
As with everything else in MA, they were created by the devs and made available to the players.

There are obviously maps preferred by farmers, but they were created by devs, not farmers.

Quote:

4) Anti-Farmers want to force their playstyle on me

Not seeing how this is an "extremist view" when you basically admit the truth of the statement.

Quote:

5) Anti-farmers are horrible people

One, it's Kontent Kops.

Two, while I am a live-and-let-live guy by nature, when others intrude on my borders I react badly. Feel obligated to lecture and tut tut and wag your finger at a playstyle I enjoy?
Better snatch it back quick, because I bite.

The "divisiveness" isn't anything you can blame on farmers with a straight face. It began and has been perpetuated mainly by the guys on the other side of the fence.

Adblock for the win.

Yes, it "devolved" all the way from chimpanzee to rhesus.

Not being particularly sensitive to the inanities of forum discourse isn't the same as 'not caring' about the direction the game takes.

Your reading comprehension is profoundly lackluster.

It's unfortunate paying customers are subject to the whims of these minimum wage despots.

Feel free to take a generalized comment to heart if you like.

Quite the opposite.

First, you're ignoring the precipitous collapse of the price of rare salvage.
Stuff that used to be 3-4 million can be had for less than 1 these days.

As for the rest, it's readily available for a few tickets.
For those who dislike MA, they will presumably be making so much inf selling their salvage drops that affording the stuff they want isn't much of a financial burden.


This was thin gruel even back at launch.
The second they introduced a market, inf became $$$.
RP fluff must bow to game mechanics every time.

I don't see much equivalency there.

The vast majority of farmers seem happy to live and let live, while anti-farmers can't help leading crusades against The Evil Ones.

I provided a definition of farming.
If it's not your thing, don't do it.