Nemo_Utopia

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No anger here, just a little righteous indignation .

I've railed against the injustices of extreme TD ever since ED and GDR.

If a Blaster has extreme Damage attacks in his Secondary that are better than my Primary, MY Defensive secondary shouldn't be able to be completely bypassed through TD.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, any 100% TD attack is ridiculously overpowered in the CoX world we currently live in.

Edited to add the following: IMO, the proposed change isn't an overcorrection. It's the required correction (2 issues too late) to fix a defensive inequity that no longer existed after I5 and GDR.

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Then I guess we're on the same wavelength, it's just the extent of TD on which we differ...although I think we all agree that Blasters need it least, and Dominators need it most!

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No my stance boils down to, Blasters shouldn't outmelee melee based ATs.


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And this is the attitude that I’ve challenged here and elsewhere.

Blasters shouldn’t outmelee melee based AT’s? Then why oh why did the devs put so many melee attacks into blaster secondaries? The brute players in this thread repeatedly say “Why should my whole secondary be negated?” Well… why should blasters’ secondaries be negated?

Let’s look an */energy, since that’s one that gets so much attention.

You have:
Power Thrust
Energy Punch
Build Up
Bone Smasher
Conserve Power
Stun
Power Boost
Boost Range
Total Focus

Out of 9 powers, that’s 5 melee attacks. And ZERO ranged attacks.

The other blaster secondaries are also heavily weighted toward melee attacks, except for devices. And even those blaster secondary attacks that are not, technically, beating on someone with your fists are zero or very close to zero range.


So here’s my challenge:

(1) Explain exactly WHY an AT with so many melee powers in all their different secondaries should not be effective in melee.

(2) Explain exactly WHY it is bad for a brute’s secondary powers to be ineffective in PvP, but it’s OK for blasters’ secondaries to be made ineffective.

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And your point is????????

Some Tanks have AoE attacks in their secondaries. Spines and Claw Scrappers have ranged attacks. Ranged attacks are available in the PPP's as well. They do damage. Should they out-damage a Blaster's ranged attack or AoE? No. Why? Because Ranged, AoE, and PBAoE attacks are not the specialties of Melee fighters. Those attacks are Blaster Specialties.

You mentioned Brutes. Without Fury, Brute base damage is LESS than a Tanker. In those cases, a Blaster's secondary does MORE damage than a Brute's primary. Is that OK with you? Probably is. As a Brute player, I frankly think that bites!

Many Blaster melee attacks (Secondary) have HIGHER BI numbers than a Scrapper, Tanker, or a Brute (Primary). Do you have a problem with that? Probably not.

Most Tanks, Brutes, and Scrappers deal primarily S/L, which is far more resisted than your typical ENG Blapper's Bonesmasher. In the case of the Brute and Tanker, the damage is Fully Resistable. In the case of the Scrapper, you get the occasional Crit. Blaster damage is ALWAYS 30% unresisted. Do you have a problem with that? Probably not.

Blaster melee attacks ARE NOT being made more ineffective. Necessary corrections are being made so a MELEE AT can actually be BETTER at MELEE than a non-Melee AT. Do you have a problem with that? You shouldn't.

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You're not entirely wrong, Julio, but you're not entirely right, either. Blasters SHOULD do more damage: it is, after all, what they do. And some (although perhaps not a full 30%) should be unresistable. I'm a blaster player, and I still think 30 may be high...something more like 15...but that may be too low...but you get the idea. I agree, Blasters having TD in their secondaries made them an uncounterable way to drop what Brutes and Tankers have going for them: defense and resistance. I also think that the EXTREME reduction of TD is way extreme (I feel sorry for those poor Doms...and I don't even play them...). So yes, you should be more surviveable in melee and combat in general...it's why you have a defensive set. Blasters being able to basically drop 1+ toggle with every hit, no contest is kind of extreme...but not being able to even drop one when handing out 10s of attacks is also a problem. Once more, in the interest of satifsying players, the devs tipped the scale too far (which is exactly what they did when they made the 100% for at least one toggle dropped in the first place...). So, it's a knee-jerk to a badly thought out ability.

Final result: Blasters SHOULD out-melee DAMAGE the "melee" ATs on average ([examples of exceptions that SHOULD be definitely better: Scrapper Crits, high Fury (which needs its own PvP fix like Domination, but that's its own thing, and seems to be at least half of what you are actually mad about)...] otherwise Blasters are not able to do anything, really). Blasters SHOULD NOT be able to almost completely ignore the defenses of those ATs (otherwise, those ATs are not able to do anything, really). Lobby for balance, not for more overcorrection.

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i am still crshing when i enter/exit recluse's victory, happens when it enters the loading screen, then have to restart my pc cause it bugs my pc out from the crash =/

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Yes, I am too. Even after turning ALL graphics options to the MINIMUM allowed by the program...it loads to 1/5th or 1/4th...then my video driver stops responding! Really hope I7 won't do this too

{Edit} This is happening from both Hero AND Villain sides!{/edit}

{2nd Edit} This also includes starting the program for a toon who tried to zone to (and presumably is in) Recluse's Victory: when choosing that toon, the bar does the same progress, then WHAMMO{/2nd edit}

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This was a regular occurrence for many people in the early stages of CoV beta. Hang in there...they'll fix it!

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Well, yeah, but during Beta, turning all the graphics to the minimum worked...oh well, so long as I get to have fun in RV when I7 hits

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i am still crshing when i enter/exit recluse's victory, happens when it enters the loading screen, then have to restart my pc cause it bugs my pc out from the crash =/

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Yes, I am too. Even after turning ALL graphics options to the MINIMUM allowed by the program...it loads to 1/5th or 1/4th...then my video driver stops responding! Really hope I7 won't do this too

{Edit} This is happening from both Hero AND Villain sides!{/edit}

{2nd Edit} This also includes starting the program for a toon who tried to zone to (and presumably is in) Recluse's Victory: when choosing that toon, the bar does the same progress, then WHAMMO{/2nd edit}

Bah. I currently can't access RV on test: Every time I try to zone in, the COMPUTER crashes after 1/5th of the progress bar goes. I'm going to try setting graphics to "absolute, major suckage" and see if that works (it worked for villains beta....), but otherwise keep in mind that high graphics settings are likely to cause zoning issues.

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I personally think FF masterminds should stop complaining. They chose a passive, and what I think is a rather boring secondary powerset for such a fun primary. The fact that it does not work well with the new bodygaurd feature just underscores that fact. My opinion of course.

Now if they changed the forcefield FX for masterminds to make little leprechauns with golden shields that swirled around your henchies, that would at least give the illusion that it was a cool secondary. Also, just my personal opinion... and a bit of a fantasy of mine. I'm a sucker for leprechauns.

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Someone obviously does not grasp the full coolness of Force Fields. And, as Pax said, we chose it to safe. And a properly built */FF MM is very, very safe...until PvP. Actually, they can still be pretty safe, even then, played right. As people have said (and I like Bodyguard, but can't really argue their point): FF doesn't work with Bodyguard (and actually, neither does Sonic Resistance...), but the other MM sets do...but that's more of a powerset issue than anything else.

We do. I've tried multiple builds in PvP (although admittedly only Robots/FF in a Warburg setting) and have been having a blast. This probably, however, has something to do with my experience as a Blaster, where I learned to recognize that the biggest risk is often the most fun...you just shouldn't expect to beat the big risk all the time (it IS a BIG RISK, after all). From what I can see, few other MMs have this kind of tolerance, however, and do not even resort to running/Flying/SSing/SJing/TPing away, even when they have no status or secondary effects affecting their mobility.

Stated another way:
Players target us ANYWAY. Even with some kind of inherint mini-confuse or redirection, they still would: take down the general, down go the troops. This will be a fact of life, since it will NEVER be truly harder for a player to target us instead, since even in an imbalanced MM/pet situation, killing pets would be our cue to run...therefore they still don't get us. Bodyguard increases life expectancy from alpha strikes and people who get us without warning, and can only be good, and almost require anyone wanting to one-shot us to have us be engaged with other foes...something they often do anyway! ANY buff like that for us in PvP is a boon, and treating it like poison only shows that you're crazy. I admit, it's not perfect...nothing is. We can lobby for improvement, but don't treat small blessings like terrible curses.

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Yup, exactly.

Defensive works like this: Your pets will not attack mobs unless attacked first. If a foe attacks them, they retaliate. If a foe attacks YOU, all of your pets aggro on that foe and attack. If you're under fire, Bodyguard will help keep you alive while your pets neutralize the threat. If you're not under fire, YOU DON'T NEED BODYGUARD.

[/ QUOTE ]But the problem for ninja is, to neutralize the threat, you have to order them around, otherwise the will go their merry way, and do whatever they want. I don't know, maybe this will fix the ninja AI, if it doesn't it's not good.

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I'm pretty sure that the Ninjas need an AI fix. I play multiple MMs, and my Ninja men also seem to have a very, very small aggro radius, like literally melee. If they were simply fixed to aggro (specifically while in defensive) to all enemy attacks, I think the problem would go away.

A good analysis of the Force Field Secondary set (one I was going to make myself). The thing is, most MMs who build for PvP forget that, like you said:

Repulsion Bomb and ForceBolt: {edit}Both are{/edit}KB + good detoggler {edit} and RB has a decent Stun (Disorient){/edit}

Force Bubble: Keeps away anyone without significant Repulsion (NOT Knock Back) protection. This means only two builds (*/EnergyAura Brutes/Stalkers) can reliably bypass this. A significant ranged striker (including BU + reds for Claws/Spines people) can bypass this, however.

Repulsion Field: EXCELLENT Detoggler. Pulses 4 times per SECOND. On average, an enemy will lose 3 toggles every five seconds, at the least. The added Knock Down is a great soft control.

Detention Field: Slot for acc. Then prepare.

Between all of that, a FF MM who wants to PvP can certainly build a decent PvP build (but will likely need Stamina...but then, don't most MMs take it?), and TP Foe antics aren't reliable if Force Bubble is up (you Repel enemies before they get to attack, buying time, if nothing else). Also, Force Bubble and Repulsion Field allow careful use of terrain: non-TPers can be trapped. This probably belongs in a PvP discussion thread, but I'm posting it here to show the people complaining about FF and Bodyguard (I hate the PFF nerf too, so be quiet) aren't looking at all of their options.

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Should a Brute be given 50% Fury at all times in PvP because it's harder to build it than in PvE? Maybe Dominators should always have Domination in PvP, too?

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There's a known bug that brutes don't generate fury as they should in PvP.. this is being addressed.

Domionation should build faster in PvP, I agree with that.

A Controller is NOT a pet class - they should not have any special bonuses for having pets.

If I tpfoe a controller, do their primary powers remain behind? Yes or no? That is what essentially happens when you tp foe a MM. No other AT has this issue.

Frankly, I'd like to see tp foe simply removed - no other level 6 power causes so much headache as this one does...

No other At has the kinds of issues in PvP that MMs have. Why should a MM have to jog along or take group tp or group fly to have his pets keep up (both of which don't work 100%)?

MMs are very good in PvE, but that's because mobs don't tp foe or go straight for the MM.

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Yes, but TP Foe is basically grandfathered into the game, good or bad. Also, if it were more easily resisted or defended against (and warned the targeted-player that he/she/it/they/whatever had been targeted by TP Foe), then a lot of the issue would go away. If it was somehow restricted to a higher level, it would still be an issue. I'm just not sure what can really be done about this, unless all ATs could somehow get inherint or extra benefit to certain powers as resisting enemy Teleportation. But then what happens when they can't be Recalled by an ally? Perhaps the best thing would be to have TP Foe bring a Mastermind's pets with them if the MM is TP Foed or Recalled. (But then how do they keep the code different from ordinary Teleport?) This isn't necessarily going to save the MM, but it would go a long way. It's a big juggle that causes quite a mess. And really, I don't what the solution is or could be.

And, for the record, I like this new addition. It's situational, it make you think, it turns the MMs into that much more of chess player. Although it just means that Necro/Dark will probably no longer have ANY competition as the "best MM PvP build".

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I dislike the way this works, especially for the melee MMs like Ninja, this means to use my abilities I have to be hit first, and it PvP with low MM HP, even 75% resists won't cut it.

In any zone all someone has to do now is just kite me, if I don't plan on switching out of body guard, as defencive stance is fairly unreliable, I've been beaten to death in defencive standing neck deep in henchmen and none attacked my target, or if they did, they went into a mini aggresive stance, and after using the pitiful Ninja Ranged Alpha strike, would run around attacking anything near by, and the ones that did decide to go into melee would run out of supremacy range, which would negate bodyguard.

What if someone with TP foe ports me onto a building? my ninja desplay the remarkable ability to be unable to understand how to get on one, so I'd be hosed anyway, same with storm summoning users, who could just gale your pets off a building, or scatter you and your minions with hurricane, switching your pets in melee mode and making them just run futally into hurricane.

This doesn't solve the travel issue either, PvP is about speed, and pets don't have that, it's even worse if you set up and have to move, as the only way to get from point A to point B with any speed while using pets is to set them on passive and just run, once again negating Bodyguard. Before you mention the group "travel" options in the power pools, they are horrible for traveling, they're slow and endurance intensive.

What does passive mode get us anyway? We can't order our pets when held, so we can't switch to defencive/follow when being bullied by a controller, or ice blaster (which are much more frequent in PvP).

If you want my opinion, make Bodyguard work as it does for defensive, but make it also work in all passive modes but "Attack my target," as the attacker isn't in danger, the only one screwed if the pets are in passive is the MM.

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Group TP. If you're taking group travel anyway, Group TP is decent when slotted 3 range, 3 end. It's not perfect, but it's all we've got. And as cool as GF is (and decent-ish when slotted 3 end redux), it doesn't pack the speed of GTP.

It's because they expected something new, something original, something that would give them all their answers on a platter! Even the best guide doesn't truly do this, and the discussion is warranted since there are no numbers, and even small amounts of speculation leads to the powers in the PPPs being at least Moderate. Again, we'll have to see how it tests, but your synergy discussion is well taken, since secondary effects have indeed traditionally been second fiddle to primary ones.

On the flip side, however, is teaming. A team of MMs who all have the same PPP for the same secondary effect (and probably the holds!) will be able to get far more benefit out of those effects than a solo player, a consideration to mull over. The aggro will also be better mitigated: there can be more minions free-for-alling out there to draw attention. There are plenty of MM SGs out there, and I've seen plenty of teams that like having 3-5 MMs. Under the discussion for character concept or an additional one on playstyle, I would include the differences that soloing vs teaming builds should have for which PPP may actually suit that MM more.

Just my humble 2 infamy.

Question: I have heard that the various nukes can be used in base raids, but the term was "bunker-buster." Which nukes [one type, all of them] let you do this, and is there any info on the success of using them? I'm curious as I never followed up on the info and have not had the chance to see them used. Thanks!

It's like MechWarrior from WizKids Games when it first came out: the game kicked A$$, but the point values were a tad skewed. They've gradually fixed this, and I really think that's the only change necessary (beyond having matches available with higher or lower point costs [say, increments of 1000?]) here. As good (bad? ugly(J/K!)?) Lord Recluse pointed out, it's about messing with the point balance, and I'm glad they're looking into it

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As for the 20% difference in Villains to heroes; that's a crock. Why should the heroes get that extra percentage? There have to be at least 7000 people * rough guess* or more with level 50's, that have gobs of cash to donate to SG's. Why give them the bonus? Let's be real and make this an even playing field. That's all I want is a little equality in the game since we stress it so much. Anyopne else agree with that? Give me your thoughts.

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You people just don't let the devs win, do you? The people in BETA were practically SCREAMING for a better conversion rate for heroes, at least to start, BECAUSE of all the level 50s who had saved up their influence and "should be rewarded for playing." Ay carumba folks, I do NOT envy their positions. It's like the Dance Party (which I'd venture some people don't even KNOW about): you heathens whine and complain and clamor for something to happen, so they make it happen, and THEN you go and whine and complain and clamor that the thing HAPPENED for the SAME reasons it was WANTED. O_o o_O o-o O_O I mean, come on folks. I'm going to go play the game, you all confuse me too much. At least while you silly people are reading this and thinking up a response I won't accidentaly run into you in game and be tempted to your craziness.

Well, it's after all the other posts, but with I6 upon us, I thought I'd give my two inf on Force Mastry to be helpful (I play an Energy/Energy/Force as my primary). First, TI and FoN DO stack, just like tanker powers. I have TI three slotted for resist and one slotted for endurance, I'm considering throwing in one more of each. For FoN I'm looking at 3 resist, 3 recharge (since ED is in effect), but am considering 3 resist, 2 recharge, 1 end recovery. With TI active while FoN is in effect, Smash/Lethal damage is almost unnoticable and other non-psionic types seem to be cut ~1/2. {edit} Basically, with 3 even slots under ED, you get an additional 56% resist from each power. This means that TI gives you 35.49% and FoN gives you 54.6%, with more if you cap slotting or have a fourth slot. This means you hit 90.09 resistance vs Smash/Lethal, meaning you hit the resistance cap. Again, superior slotting can lead to over that cap (leaving room for you to remain there even under -res effects) and have even better than 54.6% vs other types. All in all, this is AWESOME!{/edit} More testing to come later. Repulsion Field is also evil, I advise 2 or 3 end reduce and 1 or 2 KB. Trust me, it's just evil.

Also, with the changes to Nova, you do NOT gain end from using FoN and then Nova. They seem to have rewritten all of the Nukes' end drop so that instead of being a -% (overcomeable by buffs), it just automatically sets it to zero outside of all other parameters for the duration. This is not to say FoN/Nuke is a bad plan, however, since it increases your survive after Nuke chances by...a lot. Like a lot a lot. Pop a blue to also run up PFF and/or TI, and if you DON'T get away... you shouldn't be fighting what you're fighting anyway

All in all, I love Force Mastry. Sure, it has no Hold, Area Snipe, extra attacks, or any of those goodies. But for those Blasters begging for defense, it is still an excellent set in I6.

-SGs have a cap of 75 members.

-If you quit an SG, the prestige you earned for that SG remains with them, since it belongs to the SG, not the player. A player can never have "personal prestige" (at this point). Also, if an SG disbands, all of their prestige is forever lost.

-You change influence to prestige at the horrendous rate at the SuperGroup Registrar, the same person you talk to to register your SG. Influence turned into prestige is not refundable in any way: Influence you dump is treated as prestige you earned for the SG, it belongs to the SG, period.

-Enhancements cannot be turned into prestige, per se. You must first sell them to a store for influence, which can then be turned into prestige as described above, if you wish.

-There is currently no way to bank salvage. You can only carry 20 of any one type of salvage (or component, as far as I am aware) at a time. However, there are many methods of storing it most players don't seem to think of. First, salvage is tradeable. This means you can trade/sell salvage to those interested if you don't want it. This also means that the Supergroup can evenly distribute salvage among members, and if they care to keep track of who earned what, just get someone to write it down every day. Also, in the same way that people preform influence transfers, you can probably get a friendly person to transfer any salvage you wish between you and an alt.

-Hope that helps, and if you have more questions, ask after reading the guide and I or some other poster will try to aid you.

I'd like to sit in on the dev meetings too, but I can't say I'm getting the same vibe you are. Although, I think it IS set up rather like the chain of command in the Freedom Phalanx: everybody listen to States, Poz and Manticore are something like the second-in-command types, Sister Psyche (or at least, somebody) is telepathically (over textmessages, passed notes, etc.) telling jokes the whole time, Synapse (or somebody) is actually cracking jokes, and Siege (or somebody) is fascinated how a business meeting can turn into something like that. The only thing I REALLY see them progessively nerfing is soloing. They said they'd never force us to team...which in a sense is still true...but the incentive to team up just to SURVIVE seems to get greater with every issue. The higher your level, the greater the incentive. (*shrugs*) Still arresting, mentoring, answer the dumb questions, and having fun [am I]!

Lol. Yes, but I always thought that they were referring to the fact that having a Supergroup of one lets you build your OWN personal scoobity-blah, and then you can just use Coalition chat with friendly SGs and be an "extended member." (*shrugs*) And, seriously, who wants to recreate the apartment living experience? You guys must never have watched "The Tick"

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The base stuff sounds cool, but it is a real shame they did not implement something similar albeit smaller on the individual level.

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Patience... :-)

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He's a tease I tell you, a shameless one. I'm so very glad I beat him up in Beta enough to make up for this

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*INF* tapers down as you increase in level until it reaches zero around level 35.

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O_o o_O o-o O_O Po-zzyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! Man, he always does something like this. Making people choose between prestige and slotting. You'd think they planned it or something

You make a couple of points here...but it's not about paying attention. The OP apparantley just walked in and bought the product, with no-one to tell him he wouldn't be able to access it until launch. That's a flaw in the retailer. If it's about providing customers that kind of courtesy, then there needs to be that information A) In a big poster practically on top of the product B) A sales rep type guy (or even just the electronic section guy) there to tell anyone who even shows moderate interest in the game that information or C) Something posted at all the registers. The release date being good or not is entirely up to debate, however

Actually, what it comes down to is the retailer offering the game two days before launch. It's not NC Soft the OP should be mad at, it's the store. Any box that ISN'T a pre-order package on shevles now is being put on shelves BEFORE THE LAUNCH DATE. Give them heck about it. As I've stated in another post, this "Idiots R(backwards) We" crud has to stop. Be mad at the retailer for pulling this kind of B.S., it's the kind of stunt that alienates customers. The OP even said he's indulging in the CE goodies, which means it is definitely the final retail product. Send a polite PM to whichever redname that can help (there's at least two...) about this situation (please note: short and POLITE. Don't take out anger at the retailer on the rednames, they get enough crap), and get your retailer on the phone. Then make sure you get the manager (the person in charge of such decisions). Then give them flames from the very depths of Hades. Show them we villains don't take any crap!

Ah, but that is the art. For complaining about complaining is just as futile as complaining. And your complaining about complaining about complaining only exacerbates the matter, as my post does, in useless hyperbole (the BEST and ONLY kind! ). And this very post (griping about complaining about complaining about complaining...but mostly just ragging on dummies for fun ) will do as well!!