Natsuki

0.1 * 0.1 * 0.1 * 0.1 * 0.1 = 0.00001

So, 0.001% chance for them all to go off.



0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.59049

So, 59.049% chance that NONE of the procs go off. Which means the chance for at least one (perhaps more) procs will go off will be 100 - 59.049 = 40.951%

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Three Rules of Good Roleplay:

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Smurch, may I steal this for use with my VG I run? ^.^ I'll give credit where it's due of course.

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Isn't it though?

It doesn't get BU right since it's hardcoded for Scrappers, but it's still a fun tool.

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Ya, I just hand edited in bu by setting dam enhance to 0 and then noting the last attack in w/e chain would benefit from it. Still saves me a lot of time from punching it in excel.

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Oh, you mean like creating an attack with the values of BU, but have a DS of 0 rather than using one of the existing with BU sets?

Grav is going to be one of the most difficult to play with, it doesn't get it's soft-control until level 26. I can't really go into more detail on that, because I never get the set past 10 myself. ^.^;

Isn't it though?

It doesn't get BU right since it's hardcoded for Scrappers, but it's still a fun tool.

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Really wish that Starsman would update his website that he has, as those charts would have much more detail about which powers get used for which settings, and such.

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I updated them a while back but "forgot" to update my site to link to them.

However, in the sake of simplicity I didnt add the list of selected powers on this version. I can revisit this and make them visible in the power Data tab... will see what I can pull off there without having to re-design the entire page.

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Thanks for updating them!


So, it looks like.. at the lower end of the Recharge spectrum that Energy is ahead of Elec, but at higher Recharge Elec is ahead of Energy. Very nice to see ^.^

Though, I am a bit sad to see that on the high recharge Icy is so low on the charts.. Not that I am surprised by it particularly since they left it completely unchanged outside of the Dom modifier boosts. Though, of course, the devs don't balance around such a high recharge rate since it takes IO's, and such to achieve. ^.^; Oh well.

Try both I say.

The grav pet is great, though the /Elec Pet is rather short lived.

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I should mention though, I personally feel that with the recent changes, Power Boost for Doms should be changed to Power Build Up. Leave it at the 120s recharge it's at currently, give it a Damage/To Hit boost, and maybe lower the amount of +Duration it has. Icy and Energy won't be able to do as many "bursts" of damage that Elec can, but at least it will have an option for those that feel the +Duration is superfluous.

[/ QUOTE ]I just want to remind you, we do have an option. We skip powerboost. It'd be nice if it did something, but it doesn't, so... ah well, eh. It's not a big deal.

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Yup, I know ^.^

I actually already posted in this very same thread that that is exactly what I did with my Mind/Icy Dom.

That's WITHOUT Voltaic Sentinel factored in at all.

Whether or not a Dom uses their abilities to the best of their potential is irrelevant personally. It comes down to what the maximum potential of the set can do, and yes the 2256 is the "BU" chain without Volt Sentinel factored in. Just raw burst damage that Elec can come up with using the best abilities it can.


The 2256 BU value is higher than the PBU value that you have listed, and the thing to keep in mind is that PBU is not up as often as BU. Even assuming they gave it at the 120s recharge.



The first value I gave is for a good burst chain which netted 1925 damage in 12.66s which is higher than the Energy burst chain without PBU that you listed. Elec does not need BU to be competitive with Energy. Again, this is without any Volt Sentinel factored into it. Though, this chain was one that used Zapp in it. I did get one that got to 1903 or something without Zapp at all, it was under the 1925 but over 1900 that much I remember for sure, and the chain is usable indefinitely.


And yes, you are completely right that the set leans on C-Brawl to get it's high DPS. C-Brawl was just that over the top previously to the Dom buffs though, same anim time but way higher base scalar. I can see why they cut the damage on it. Either way, my main thing that I wanted to point out is there are very much real reasons to take Elec Assault over Energy Assault. Elec is still the top ST DPS performer for Doms, Energy is just a really good contender now than it was before.

Ok, Frosticus, in 12.66s I am able to get a total of 1925.77 damage, for a DPS of 152.11 without using Build Up for an Electricity Assault Dominator. This is using your specified 150% Recharge build, and a 95% Damage Enhancement.


Linky

Though this particular attack chain seems to actually like Zapp, that kind of surprised me.. But still, it avoided using Thunderstrike, and surpassed your BU chain in total damage.


EDIT:

And.. I just noticed, that particular shot doesn't include the values that I set in it.

Range Mod of 0.95
Charged Bolts 1s Anim, 0.95 DS 4s Recharge
Lightning Bolt 1.67s Anim, 1.558 DS 8s Recharge
Zapp 4.33s Anim, 3.382 DS 20s Recharge
Static Discharge 2.07s Anim 1.1685 DS 16s Recharge

Melee Mod of 1.05
Charged Brawl 0.83s Anim 1.386 DS 6s Recharge
Havoc Punch 1.5s Anim 2.058 DS 10s Recharge
Thunderstrike 3.3s Anim 2.142 DS 16s Recharge




Basically, I looked through City of Data, and the Patch notes. Then multiple ranged values of DS by the doms Range mod of 0.95, then did the same for Melee attacks DS by the Doms melee mod of 1.05.

The attack chain visualizer then automatically generates the actual damage. I believe, if you take one of the pre-built sets with Build Up that you can even get Build Up to factor into the total damage. going to fudge around with that next.


EDIT2:

Yup! BU will work in it too.

Total Damage: 2509.57
Time: 12.16 sec
DPS: 206.38

This is a BU chain with Elec, that does NOT use Zapp.

Linky

So, Frosticus, play around with it, and see what you can come up with Energy. I somehow doubt it will really rival Elec's ST DPS though. ^.^;

EDIT3:
Hmm, just realized.. there is ONE problem with that BU chain listing.. it would actually be a bit, well, off as I believe the BU values are hard coded into it..

Quick little test, and the BU Value is hardcoded at 100% damage value, so, let's see.

*LAUGHS* Wow, that's um, weird.. it also seems to only increase part of the damage on the last C-Bolts that gets hit with it.. Ok ok.. lemme see..


Ok, fudging around with it a little, I was able to make the chain WITHOUT BU adding the damage to it, and gives these values.

Total Damage: 1716.18
Time: 12.16 sec
DPS: 141.13

From there I can make the actual damage list for the Dom BU values.

So, the last C-Bolts will get the BU buff, but the C-Brawl does not.

C-Brawl is 169.08 damage under these circumstances, so 1716.18 - 169.08 = 1547.1 is boosted by BU. However, some of that is from 95% enhancement, so 1547.1/1.95 = 793.385~ (had to round). If we then take this value and multiply by ( 1 + 0.95 + 0.68 ) * 793.385 = 2086.60255 + 169.08 from the last C-Brawl for a Dom BU Value total of 2255.68255 damage over 12.16s for a DPS of 185.5.

Well, that shows me for forgetting that the BU is hardcoded!

In answer to myself here.. I found that attack chain visualizer I had found before. ^.^


http://www.snakebytes.net-a.googlepages.com/test2.html

For anyone interested.

-.-;

Wow, no need to be so rude. I only said what I personally feel, I did not say that I was even lobbying for the changes, yeesh. I took Icy Assault for concept. At the time, I did enjoy Power Boost, but I have since found it completely superfluous compared to having Domination on all of the time. That's all I was saying. Damn.

What you are showing is a burst representation, and not a DPS representation.

This is the most recent chart that Starsman had during the Dominator changes that went test. Linky


Really wish that Starsman would update his website that he has, as those charts would have much more detail about which powers get used for which settings, and such.


Looking over what his chart does have listed, the usage of Thunder Strike in the Electric's chain that you list is what makes it very much subpar. I myself am not one that would use Thunderstrike unless my other attacks were not ready yet, as TS' damage for it's animation time is particularly low relative to the other attacks Elec gets.


EDIT:

*Ponders* I remember seeing an "attack chain" builder some place that allowed custom attacks, and would give a visual representation of the animation times, and recharges along with pointing out the 'best' attack to use at a given time..

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Just one thing about your your Damage proc guide Natsuki.

Pets have a variation on what powers will trigger a damage proc. The attack a pet uses has to the property which the proc is based on e.g.

Thugs tiers 1 pets have 2 attacks with KB and 1 without. Only the the 2 attacks with KB can trigger a KB Proc (Explosive Strike for example). One of the tier one pets, the Arsonist, has no knock back attacks and never triggers a proc.

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I'm very well aware of that.


In fact, I have even stated as such within my FAQ

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What about powers that only have a chance for the enhancements type to fire off (Such as Energy Blast with Explosive Strike)?

There has been much debate about this particular point; via testing and thanks to Biowraith, there is now a perfect example/proof of how this works. In essence, a power only needs to be enhanceable for the type of enhancement for the proc to fire off. The power does not even need to contain such an effect for the proc to work! That is to say, slotting an Explosive Strike chance for Smashing into a power that has a 20% chance for Knockback, it will roll the chance for Smashing proc whether or not the chance for knockback the power has inherently fires off! What's my proof? Robotics Mastermind's first attack, Pulse Rifle Blast (Tier1 attack), has NO knockback effect at all, however, the power accepts both Knockback enhancers and Knockback Set Enhancers, and yes, the Explosive Strike proc works in it.

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Mind you that at this point, they have fixed this particular issue. However, I have explained that the powers need to be enhanceable for a proc to work. I did not go into the finer details of MM Pets, and procs as that was outside of the scope of a Mini FAQ.

I have assisted many a Dom, and Mastermind in explaining such intricacies on these boards. I just did not wish to get into the exact details inside of the mini-FAQ as it was designed for people to get a general basis of how they function without bringing specific AT examples to the table.

Because sets like Dark Melee were triple effected by a "Defense (All)" power.

Smashing, Negative, Melee. Against the Sky Raiders back in the day when it DID work like this, meant a single Force Field Generator = floored accuracy for the Dark melee Scrapper.

In practice, they're not that different. In theory, they can be. ^.^

So, not really correcting you as the soft-cap is all that really matters, but there is some slight differences to pets.

Well, /Elec still has higher ST DPS than Energy, and better AoE to boot. I don't think it would over power Energy at all.

The hard cap is lower for the MM pets iirc, however, it has no effect at all on the soft cap which is the only important thing. Aka, 45% defense = enemies have minimum chance to hit unless they have +To hit, or -Defense.

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whats wrong with having longer lasting control? I would think having PB on a Dom would be the way to go now that Domination only buffs control length? Domination and PB would be awesome with consistant dmg we can deal out.

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Well, I would still prefer a damage boosting ability over PB.

The thing is, even though Dom only "buffs" controls, it does so in such a dramatic way that I still build my Doms towards perma-dom. Not JUST for Perma-Dom mind you, but having perma-dom means my controls last longer, AND they have double mag, AND my AoE Controls recharge significantly faster.


With my Mind/Icy Dom, I can Terrify first spawn, Total Domination second spawn, Mass Confusion third spawn then repeat. They recharge that fast, and the controls last long enough for the enemies to be dead before they wear off.


EDIT:

In the case of my Plant/Psy Dom that I have, who is full perma-Dom atm, her Seeds of Confusion recharges fast enough for me to permanently keep all four of the "Ballistas" on the RSF map confused. Without Perma-Dom, and "power boost" instead, there is no way I could pull that off.

EDIT2:

I should mention though, I personally feel that with the recent changes, Power Boost for Doms should be changed to Power Build Up. Leave it at the 120s recharge it's at currently, give it a Damage/To Hit boost, and maybe lower the amount of +Duration it has. Icy and Energy won't be able to do as many "bursts" of damage that Elec can, but at least it will have an option for those that feel the +Duration is superfluous.

*Is in the same boat as Fulmens, and puts a hand on shoulder* Scary, ain't it? o.o

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Congrats! Random roll is random, but I choose to believe that the weighted roll table had something to do with your good luck. Thank you, Devs!

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I'd have to agree, prior to the weighted roll table, I would never random roll. Now, well, I'll give it a shot

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Also, to Natsuki, I can understand how a Mind Dom wouldnt care about PB. You have at least 2 trivially perma AoE control powers in the set. But for anyone else, if, as you say, Doms do so much more damage now so your controls lasting longer doesnt matter, I say that if you are killing that fast, you dont need BU either.


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Bosses.


For them, I don't need AoE Controls, and my ST Control functions as damage as well, so it's not a problem to spam it. The extra duration isn't that meaningful against them, but the extra damage would be. ^.^

Wish I had numbers I could post from my pre-i15 Doms, sadly I don't save my Hero Stats logs really otherwise I'd be more than happy to post quantified effects of post-i15 being better. ^.^;

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Oddly, search didn't return any Arcanaville discussion of cascading defense failure.

For those just tuning in, that's when you have a lot of minions using a lot of common minion attacks with -DEF (fire axes, machine guns, stuff that shows up in masses if it shows up at all.) So you go from 5% to be hit to 12.5% which VERY RAPIDLY becomes 20%, becomes "no defense at all", becomes dead.

It's not the FIRST hit that kills you... ok, there was Impossible Kung Fu Mission in the AE, final AV, where the first hit killed me. But he was truly a martial arts master.

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*Ahem* Me thinks your search-fu is weak.

Guide to (Tohit and) Defense v1.10beta Found this link in the Guide to Guides thread. ^.^;

*snip*

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Resistance to defense debuffs

As of I6, resistance to defense debuffs have been added to some hero and villain sets. Not all sets with defense have had resistance to defense debuffs added: specifically Super Reflexes, Stone, Ice, and Energy Aura have had it added.

There is some confusion surrounding why resistance to defense debuffs was added in the first place. A common theory is that it was added because resistance resists resistance debuffs, but defense does not resist defense debuffs, so there was a disparity. That's actually not true: resistance resists resistance debuffs, while defense avoids defense debuffs.

The asymmetry comes because resistance to resistance debuffs doesn't go down when resistance itself is debuffed: the ability to resist resistance debuffs is itself not debuffable. It never gets weaker. But the ability to avoid a defense debuff obviously goes down as defense itself is debuffed. Defense is vulnerable to what is referred to as "cascade failure" where a defense debuff will reduce defense, making more defense debuffs land, which lowers defense even more, which allows even more defense debuffs to land.

This cascade failure, which occurs for defense sets but not for resistance sets, is the actual reason for the addition of defense debuff resistance, and it was specifically added to sets that rely on defense for a significant part of their protection. Its not an intrinsic property of defense, but a specific resistance added to specific power sets.

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Tremor is actually an extremely useful survival tool. It's basically a soft control that will be in our secondary. Verah verah niiiice.

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I can't stand it's animation nor it's animation time. :/ Hence why I did qualify "personally".